Knockback In Beta 4
Nemesis_Zero
Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
Old European Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Poll requested by Marine01</div> Seeing that the discussion continues, Marine asked me to create a follow-up to the <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=51177&st=75' target='_blank'>last poll</a> on the topic. Feel free to add comments below.
<b>This poll does <i>not</i> deal with bug #4 (the 'flying' marine), but the 'normal', 30 unit kind of knockback.</b>
<b>This poll does <i>not</i> deal with bug #4 (the 'flying' marine), but the 'normal', 30 unit kind of knockback.</b>
Comments
I think many votes for removal of knockback will be referencing the fly-through-the-air knockback.
Also, eliminating knockback will also stop the onos from knocking around skulks while attacking structures.
If a marine jumps at the right time and a skulk bites him in mid-air, he will fly back realllly far because there is no ground friction to stop him. (hl physics in action) If the marine is on the ground, he only gets nudged 30 units or so. This is the difference.
Though I agree with the ROF thing. If they're standing still, it won't be that hard to kill 'em after the first bite.
Agreed. If the knockback bug has been fixed, then thats all that needs to be fixed.
A good place to transfer crazy flying knockback, though, would be to onos's charge. That way you could get your damage in and then go charging out of the room without having to worry about some teeny marine jumping in your way and blocking your exit. Charge SHOULD be sending marines flying, but everything else shouldn't.
Agreed. If the knockback bug has been fixed, then thats all that needs to be fixed. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I voted "I love it."
Knockback and the knockback bug are completely unrelated in terms of gameplay.
One is a bug, the other is natural; a few inches pushed to the side after being bit so it takes a little skill on the skulks part to hit you.
The skill in guessing the correct distance and heading to connect a bite that isn't a) out of range b) does not connect on a target with relative sideways movement although you're aiming correctly c) goes through the marine because you were touching him.
Oh wait. Its not really a skill, its mostly just a randomizer on wether you damage or not, with knockback thrown in for some added mayhem. GG <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I've never really noticed it.
--Scythe--
Anyway, I do hate when I die as a skulk since I'm too cluse-up for my bites to register, it sucks. But I think thats more related to the player-specific hitboxes <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
--> another idea for the "fixed " knockback : Lets turn around the marine while knockbacked so he´gets the chance to kill the skulk, but the skulk gets the chnace to get closer to him cause he must again turn around. Or just use a "random" 500 degree turn or something to .. ( sry i dont know the word) make him crazy a bit ...
now we dance !
ps: use this sound again at 3rd hive please !! It's greeeat !
-- Codeman
If there wasn't, then how exactly did the marines survive?
I think it's neccessary for normal knockback to remain, the same way that aliens don't take 1 bullet to kill - the enemy needs to have a chance. I'm a crap skulk, but I can usually get one hit in; it's the second, third and fourth that's the tricky part.
edit: I voted for going a version without knockback. Not that Im frustrated by it (dont really notice the normal knockback), but I wanna see how it will affect balance.
I accidentally voted for getting rid of it, because Nem didn't specify soon enough that he meant the "push aside" knockback, as opposed to the "fly at 50 mph through the air" knockback.
Should be in the topic sub-name really :/ If one person(me) votes after reading the topic name and the first sentence of the post and then votes, then others are likely to make the same mistake...
I really wish something would be done to nerf the ridiculous jump dodging that marines do so frequently though. Jumping around like a rabbit in order to dodge bites while simultaneously firing accurately at a skulk just doesn't fit with the concept of the marines at all.
Think about it. Level 0 Light Armor Marines. Two bites.
Now think about how fast a skulk without focus bites. Now apply that to never missing the marine when you get him because he doesnt get knocked around. Marine = dead in time it takes to bite again. GG marine.
Lets take a look at the realistic approach. Leap/bite. Think of a small dog flying through the air at a high velocity into your chest. Are you going to stand there and not move? I'm sure all the leet doods out there are saying "No way doodzor I'm strong!!!111oneeleven" So yeah, we've established that a small dog at high velocity will knock you around a bit.
Just getting bitten by a skulk would knock you off balance, probably wouldnt knock you back every time but you'd still be woosied and in pain.
You'd see a high jump in alien skill levels if this was tried for a version. Also most likely a drop in marine team activity "for a while", cause who wants to be the guys getting waxed every game? However, it could very well increase teamwork as marines to the point that kharaa can't win anymore. Think about it. Marines would start carrying welders everywhere. Camping areas while the commander scanned forward. Carrying shotguns more often? I mean the commander might be spending too much res, but if he can't get anywhere with dead marines he might as well spend the good stuff trying to do it.
No Knockback is pretty brutal. You don't realize it, but the "normal" knockback (30 units average) really helps, without screwing over the skulks chances. Having no knockback at all means the marine won't move at all when attacked, and that skulk just has to hold down the bite button for two quick hits and death.
Remove knockback entirely, and you'll start seeing some pretty extream Kharaa ownage. The Rambo will become pretty much extinct. While this would be a good thing imho, the minor knockback is a sutle balancer that I believe needs to be there.
<b>Don't</b> remove knockback entirely. Lets play the next Beta with the super-knockback-'o-doom fixed first.