Combat Timer

bade · May 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">the good and the BAD</div> I personally think that the combat timer is pretty good for most co maps, but defietly not for all. esspecially co_daimos. that map is HUGE (for a co) meaning it takes rines a while to get 2 the hive. meaning less chance of succsess. befor the timer daimos maps ussually ened with jp rushes or a good o chain of heavies from the phases. but in beta 4a the aliens guard the phases as much as the hives knowing that the only way for rines to win is if they secure the phases. ive also noticed that alot less servers are running co_daimos. so my suggestion is to make it so that at like say... 4.5 min, the phases open automaticly and!!!!! that gorges cant web in the phase area and that any alien standing in the part of the room where the rines come out will take 5 percent of there max health in damage for after camping for say 5 seconds.

i would hate to see a good map like co_daimos go to loss because of a timer...

EDIT: also have any of the devs played on nsARMSLAB they have a wicked cool spawning system they made up that is awesome. maby flayra or someone should go check it out.

Act_Chill · May 2004

Some maps are very small while some maps are large. The timer should vary to reflect this. Also adding a little more time so maybe 2 or 3 people can reach level 10 instead of 1 person.

DragonMech · May 2004

Good idea, bade. Perhaps it could be a server option: sv_co_timeadapt. When set to 0 all maps have the same time limit. When set to 1, certain maps would hae their time scaled up or down depending on the size of the map.

Nemesis_Zero · May 2004

<span style='color:white'>***Moved.***</span>

anty · May 2004

yeah, add an entity so every mapper can add his own time to the "official" time...!

waller · May 2004

This sounds good to me, i i think a 20 minute timer would suit all maps, great and small.
I'm not really in facour of this timer at all tbh =/

Robert_Paulson · May 2004

I would suggest something like the mapcycle.txt file.

Different players and server admins have different styles of play, and it is impossible to say that map x is a faster map than map y...you could, but collecting that data is going to be a hassle.

Steel_Blade · May 2004

If there's something I really dislike about the timer, is that it eliminates the need to destroy the cc, so that drastically changes the feeling of combat. Before the timer, both teams were dynamic, attacking and defending at the same time, and that was very exciting. Now the timer makes combat more straightforward and dull.

What I propose to return to what it was and still get the marines to get their **** out of ms, is to make that when the time is out, the game is a draw. So, if marines camp the whole day, at least they are not gonna win. Also this gives aliens a reason to attack ms, but not a need. With this system is true that marines hold the key if they want to make the game a draw, but I think it's better than the attacking - defending approach.

Apos · May 2004

I think the timer needs to adapt to the map size in some way, definately. The latest build seems more exciting and balanced than ever before, but I don't know if it's the effect of the timer or what. I'd still like to see something happening to make the win/loss conditions more a part of the game (i.e. have the cc lose max health in that last minute, ending on death and going up in smoke when the timer hits), and I'd still like to see the CC get electrified or something that would keep skulks from being able to take it down all by themselves.

20minutes is WAY too long though.

CaCa · May 2004

I think the timer's perfect...

now if only the CO_ gamemode was that the aliens have to endure those minutes, not kill the CC, I'd love it!...

Deranged · May 2004

I love the combat timer run on nsarmslab and a few other servers..it's great, actually adjusts to the game size too... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

bade · May 2004

Ya, i really like "cheeseies respawn system" "modns.org" even though often it ends up takeing longer to spawn then with the current system u spawn IN A GROUP so spawn camping is eliminated. i think a dev should try it out. u can try the crews server nsarmslabs and mine (not up at the moment but if a dev wants to use it i ll boot er up)

bade · May 2004

oh, one more thing, just wondering why my post was stickied "never actually really seen an idea become stickied) was this on accident or on purpose.

Marine0I · May 2004

Dont look now bade, but I suspect a potent combo of your ruggedly handsome good looks, and some liberal clicking on Nemesis Zero's part

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

blackholedreams · May 2004

The timer isn't the problem, the ONE PERSON SPAWNING is the real problem. See, Marines don't stand a chance ramboing against the hive unless they're l337 JPers, but think about it, the only real way for Marines to assault the hive is in a group. Now, assuming the aliens have any skill at all, they will eventually kill the Marines as they begin to run out of ammo and get caught reloading, etc. Now, this creates a huge problem for Marines, as the faster aliens can almost be in the spawn before the next Marine manages to respawn. So, after a successful hive rush (meaning the Marines were able to do a lot of damage), the Marines are now at a massive disadvantage. Assume that a couple of Marines manage to hold the aliens off and spawn camping doesn't ensue. They still have to sit and wait for the majority of Marines to respawn so they actually have a chance to attack the hive. Their slow speed and group dependency is what hurts the Marines in the timed games now. What needs to be done is some sort of wave system that'll respawn something like a third of the team every X seconds. This way the Marines don't have to wait forever to get a group assembled to attack the hive. Aliens could get the same respawn setup as the Marines, or a reduced system. Anyway, hope this makes sense.

Raw_Evil · May 2004

blackhole, that's one of the 0.004% of posts in this forum that make sense. I like the idea of a third of the marines spawning at once, the quarter thing didn't work too well in b3 (that's what it was, wasn't it?)... for smaller games, maybe a third of the team plus one? or make it a minimum of two spawning at once? Something like that.

TugBoat · May 2004

Hi,

Ive been playing on a server that has a 10 minute timer on Server #1, and on Server #2 it has 20 minutes, people favor the 20 minutes.

I must say that the 20 Minute server is best, allmost all the time there is a result in the games, it rox.

10 minute - Bah, get rid of it, just make it 20 minute games.

jplove · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TugBoat @ May 18 2004, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 10 minute - Bah, get rid of it, just make it 20 minute games.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
The <b>mp_combattime</b> variable is a serverside setting that can be adjusted by the server admins (with appropriate access) should they choose to do so. Ten minutes is the default.

TugBoat · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jplove71 @ May 19 2004, 04:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TugBoat @ May 18 2004, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> 10 minute - Bah, get rid of it, just make it 20 minute games. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
The <b>mp_combattime</b> variable is a serverside setting that can be adjusted by the server admins (with appropriate access) should they choose to do so. Ten minutes is the default.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Lol,

I know that, but 95% of the servers still have 10 minutes and people dont like it.

It would of been better at 20 minute default.

BobTheJanitor · May 2004

Twenty minutes is way too long. That turns into the old combat where marines can happily camp their spawn for ten minutes while they level up, then they get another ten minutes to move on the hive and rip it down with all their high tech upgrades. Ten is just about perfect. So many marine wins come right in the last seconds, or else they ALMOST come, but then the timer runs out. That means things are working perfectly as planned. The timer has killed the marine camping base problem and is balanced at just the right point that they can kill the hive if they move out and do it, but can't if they waste any time. It may need a few seconds of variation, but in general it's practically perfect.

Salvation · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (anty @ May 6 2004, 11:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> yeah, add an entity so every mapper can add his own time to the "official" time...!  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
nice idea <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Takran · May 2004

Well blackhole, you have a good idea. Actually, I believe the marines USED to spawn in larger numbers, and this was good. Then they changed to 1 at a time. This is bad. Aliens can so easily spawn camp it's sickening (this coming from someone who plays aliens alot of the time). I also like the idea of a variable time limit, but disagree with 20 minutes as being a "good" time for even small maps. I rarely see maps going for 10 minutes, someone usually wins. If the marines just aren't cutting it in enough time, aliens usually pull out the CC kill anyways. It keeps combat from becoming slow and boring.

Alarik · May 2004

My biggest problem with the timer is that unless you're on a server where you're on a much higher skill level than anyone else, it's hard to get to level 10...and I (and many others, I'm sure) really enjoy playing at that level of POWAH. Now if you ever get to the max level at all, it's towards the end of the game and you don't have many/any level 10 enemies to compete against, just chomp chomp chomp on the la/sg. C'mon! Let's have a Clash of the Titans here! I asked earlier if the timer could be removed because of this.

But that's probably not going to happen. So instead of increasing the amount of time we have to get to level 10, could you decrease the amount of time it takes to get to level 10? Could we get the rate of experience gain increased somewhat? Not TOO much, but a good amount, I think. Maybe 1.3 times what it is now? Even 1.5? Or whatever works, I don't know.

civman2 · May 2004

15 minutes is the perfect amount of time. I've played pugs that the marines were clearly going to win if only they had a little bit longer to attack the hive, and I've played games as aliens where we certainly could have eaten the CC with a little bit more time. I know aliens get time wins, but rines need a smidge longer.

altairian · May 2004

Funny how people complain about aliens spawn camping marines, but never complain about marines spawn camping aliens? Hi maybe you should get armor 1 so the focus skulk can't kill you in one bite.
I only ever see spawn camping when one team or the other is kill the cc/hive on the server I play on. And it's not because the players are bad, I assure you. We also play a 12 minute timer, and that works quite nicely. 10 is often a tad too short, especially on the larger maps, the extra 2 minutes makes daimos easier to play.

Ice · May 2004

The timer and the spawnsystem were the most stupid things implemented. Apart from focus, of course. Just put wave spawning back and keep the timer and everything is fine. Or well, not fine because games would still end too quickly but better than atm.

LiberalMonkey · May 2004

The timelimit is a step in the right direction, but having aliens always on defense needs to be changed. The "You are defending" on the hud leads me to believe that the devs plan on implementing some sort of alternation system, but it also makes me curious as to why they didn't include it in b4 or b4a.

Ashaman_Joe · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LiberalMonkey @ May 28 2004, 06:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The timelimit is a step in the right direction, but having aliens always on defense needs to be changed. The "You are defending" on the hud leads me to believe that the devs plan on implementing some sort of alternation system, but it also makes me curious as to why they didn't include it in b4 or b4a.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Mainly because marine defending is... tedious... at low levels. When the marines are high level, defending gets somewhat interesting, but if the marine team has no incentive to move out, the aliens are almost guarantied a loss.

SinSpawn · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bade @ May 5 2004, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> so my suggestion is to make it so that at like say... 4.5 min, the phases open automaticly and!!!!! that gorges cant web in the phase area and that any alien standing in the part of the room where the rines come out will take 5 percent of there max health in damage for after camping for say 5 seconds.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
This is bad imo as I am aliens, It just means that marines don't even have to get a welder, all they have to do is just wait out that timer = Less teamwork needed to get that phase opened.

MrChainsaw · June 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BobTheJanitor @ May 19 2004, 09:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Ten is just about perfect.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
For pubs? Are you serious?

Try being a marine on co_kestrel on your average server and win it in ten minutes, that just won't work.

For servers with players that cooperate well, and don't always stack the alien side, maybe 10 minutes could work, good luck finding that server though.

I like 15 minutes, it kinda works, but seriously, marines spawn in one at a time, if 20 minutes seems to be too long to you as an alien, just kill the damn comm chair, aliens never had any problem doing that in beta3, and marines didn't recieve any buffs in beta 4 to turn them into "attackers", so I have no idea why people want easier "default wins" when they just aren't necessary.

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>leads me to believe that the devs plan on implementing some sort of alternation system, but it also makes me curious as to why they didn't include it in b4 or b4a.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>Yeah, that would be the great and powerful BUS (or Big Unnannounced System), it's being given to us in small chunks, so we get to play with a broken system temporarily so that going from a fun system to a piece of crap system isn't so much of a shock and people won't complain.

...except they're complaining anyway...

taboofires · July 2004

Defaults carry a sort of authority: If Flay says 10 minutes is a good setting, then it must be a good setting... right? Not always. Still, most servers stick with default settings, with round time and other variables.

So, a proper default setting for pubs would be quite excellent.

What kills the 10 minute idea in b4a is the common stalemate because of gorges. The kharaa can be well on their way to losing, but they can generally hold out for 10 minutes. Same goes for marines with the healing/stalemating, but they can't afford to hang around base all day.

Combat Timer

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