I think most of us would like to see NS with better graphics, and smoother gameplay on the source engine.
But the current NS isn't that bad. It's very popular mod, and we should be happy about that. I don't think that NS will lose a lot of players, when HL2 coes out, if NS isn't ported to source. A lot of games on the market has better graphics today.
As already mentioned in this thread, it will be a very big job to port NS to source, and if possible we should start small. I'm sure that if flayra asked for someone to make NS-source maps and skins, they would pop up somewhere in the community, we have a lot of good mappers already, I'm sure at least some of them would like to make maps for source. And like the bast and nancy remake teams, we could have map-porting teams, that would try and transfer the maps to a source version with better graphics ?
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
i dont think any of us think flayra and all wont resist the temptation to convert over to hl2. think about it, yes most will have to be redone, but it'll be worth it. I just hope all the maps get converted, that'll be easier than making all new maps.
Am I the only one here who thinks that graphics arent everything¿?
If the dev team ports the ns code into a new engine, sure that a lot of bugs are going to be corrected, but beeing realistic, probably a lot of new bugs will appear.
Doing a fast conversion isnt going to worth it, and im sure that flayra knows this, and that he is going to do the best for ns, even if that means not to have an ns soon when hl2 appears.
Correct the few bugs that ns still have, or recode everything and test everything again only for some better graphics¿? The hl2 ns version its going to be really late, maybe it will be ns2 , who knows...
I think graphics influences immersivness a great deal. Sure, if you are all about fragging as much as possible, then playing with low-poly models and stuff isn't such a big deal. However, I and probably some others as well, tries to 'experience' NS, rather than conquring (spelling?) it. Just imagine seeing the ripples on the water of some recent passing skulk. How that skulk just lays ambush below the water, and you were unable to see it, due to surface reflexions, and the chaos when it breaks the water with a big splash and attacks.
Graphics DO affect gameplay. But as you say, gameplay is not only dependant on graphics. There are just so many cool scenarios one can imagine with NS on source. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And anyone ever thought about the physics engine in the HL2? That alone gives many new possibilities.
And I wonder if you could destroy walls etc with that thing.. just imagine a rampart onos charching through walls.. or they could not be blocked as it is now, as the physics engine would move lightweighted objects out of the way ie. players. Physics alone affect gameplay a lot, it creates.. well a sort of being there feeling, that you can interact with the gameworld.. And graphics really do affect the feeling a lot as it has been said, in the older times when the entity counts were high the maps looked much cooler than they do now.. nowdays they are very dull looking.. and we all know that dynamic lights for example are very nice.
But one thing thats really offtopic is the thing, that in games if there is even a small difference in heights can cause a deadend and you need to jump over it.. in rl we just raise our foots a little and step over.. a little thing but an annoying one, I just wonder if that sort of things ever get corrected <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: A thought popped into my mind.. wonder if you can bhop with Source <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> One could imagine, that with the "realistic" physics and stuff that could not be possible anymore... I sure hope so.
I've just seen the new 570mb HL2 movie, and I have to say, it looks great. I'd love to see like 2 or 3 marines lifting an Onos with that tractorgun, or flinging a skulk half way across the room <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->, but anyways; I'd eat my dogs claws to play NS on Source, it's not only the graphics, but the whole physics engine. I can't even imagine the magnitude of how it would affect gameplay, but it would seriously rock <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+May 12 2004, 05:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ May 12 2004, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you guys are gonna need to learn XSI|EXP. I will be RIGHT beside you on helping to convert it because im trying to learn to make SS2, and Freespace 2 models in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aww man, freespace 2 on the source engine would be sweet -- accordin to gabe, its easy to add new vehicles, so flying ones could work fine -- you could make a custom skybox for space, and have dogfights and stuff -- that'd own!
also, i wanna see a starship troopers mod for hl2...
--------------
and mabye the port could finally have volumetric flamethrowers like flay wants... mmmmm
I think Flay should organize a team of volunteers to do the port, while he and his company focus on their retail projects: sort of like what Valve does with their various teams. Flay has previously pointed out that there are a lot of people that contributed to NS that can't work full time on the new retail products, but there are certainly plenty of talented people in the community that could be selected to do the port without wasting too much of the commercial team's time. This will hopefully be aided by the devs having access to some of the original high quality source art.
Yes, HL mods have lasted a long time, but let's face it: that time is passing, and the steady loss of people who will be playing HL1 (old version) mods after HL2 comes will soon accelerate. A ported NS could be REALLY popular, bring in extra revenue for Flay's new company.
Flayra should get some text adverts from google on the main forum page, this would give him extra revenue cause I would have something to click for the endless hours I spend staring blankly at my screen <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
NS:S would be cool but if it gets in the way of NS2 then I say stay with HL1
im gonna cry if there isn't any form of NS for HL2, weather its ported or re-made completly PLZ OMG <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
maybe we should do fund rasing, somewhat like the constelation but to help the dev team if they do decide to work on ns for hl2.
Half Life 2 is designed for PC's with a 700 mhz processor and above...700 mhz is a low end machine in my book. Upgrading to a 1.4 Ghz processor, new motherboard, and 256 MB RAM wouldn't be more than $150 or so. A radeon 9600 costs around $100. So, to have a system that could play Half Life 2 slightly less than decent, it would cost $250. I'm sure you could sacrifice the 9600 for a $50 9200 or FX 5200, both of which could handle Half Life 2 at low resolutions with no problem. w
Porting NS over would be an excellent idea. However, the team would want to completely redo the models, skins, and the animations associated with movement and attack. Also, to make the game that much better, maps should have a more realistic environment to them, such a shooting a control panel and the panel breaking apart in an interesting manner, and maybe causing electric shocks to anything that touches it. The environment should be a foe in itself, particularly during a fire fight. Think about a grenade launcher hitting metal...the metal's going to be wrenched and torn while melting apart. Having the environment interact with the players would bring far more people into the game because, except for scripted sequences, no game has really had a truly interactive environment.
I'd say that the largest problem with Natural Selection is that, with the newest generation of games coming out, the Half Life engine graphics are taking something away from the game. It's not the games's fault at all. It is, after all, a Half Life mod. With Half Life 2's release only a few months away, getting ready to port it over should be a top priority on everyone's minds. The gameplay for Natural Selection is astounding and original. Now take one of the world's most advanced graphics engines for gaming and combine the two. The result will probably be the best PR that Flayra's new gaming company could ever wish for.
Natural Selection will become THE game to play. With two different styles of play (combat/classic) and one of the most stunning graphics engines ever made, it shall become something that will challenge the throne of Counter Strike in the world of online gaming.
<!--QuoteBegin-Roberto+May 13 2004, 04:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roberto @ May 13 2004, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> would bunnyhopping be coded by the team into the source engine or just be forgotten? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well if bunnyhopping does not work with source as it is now (which I doubt), then IMO it should be forgotten for all eternity.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Krezalyz+May 13 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Krezalyz @ May 13 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Roberto+May 13 2004, 04:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Roberto @ May 13 2004, 04:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> would bunnyhopping be coded by the team into the source engine or just be forgotten? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well if bunnyhopping does not work with source as it is now (which I doubt), then IMO it should be forgotten for all eternity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> actually, all of the movment in HL2 has been intact- IE you can bunnyhop all you want. Its the same movement.
I watched the half-life 2 video with the ported version of cs and umm to be honest with you there is no way that is a 1 to 1 port, without a doubt they redid models, maps, textures etc...there is no way just an engine change could do that much..
so if you think a 1:1 port of ns would be easy..I doubt it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just because they didn't do a simple port doesn't mean it's not possible. No one said it would be easy, but it's within reason. It would certainly be easier to code than for the original HL.
what im saying is that from the sounds of it we will be able to port the code easily, of course the graphics of the game would be changed i am just saying the codine would not.
I personally difer from the fact that they plan to port ALL thier old games that a port isn't alot of work as video game creation is concerned. It would probably be a fair bit of work for all the coding, but the NS team doesn't have a reputation for lazyness as far as I'm concerned (I bet a fair chunk of it is copy paste anyways).
I would love to see an NS port, even if it was only a one time thing and the HL1 version was the supported NS version.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2nd, I noticed this last night, when you climb ladders in HL2 you can still fire your gun, YAY! I hate games that require your hands to climb ladders<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not a big fan of realism are you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actually I agree with you though, leaving that in gives mod creators more power, although I hope the engine is capable of reasonable ladder climbing animations for multi player as some games would grealy benifit from them (*cough DOD)
Realistic climbing is alot of work... you could still shoot a gun off a ladder, but you would have to stop climbing to do so, and would suffer to your accuracy, as well as it being all but impossible to shoot at certian angles (back left). The whole thing just requires alot of creative model animation and coding to really get working good.
As I said before, I do hope it is possible to to on the engine, but I'm just as happy that it isn't standard.
Valve is also porting over HL1, DOD, CS, & TFC to source. They said it should be out two - three months after HL2 is released. Mmm Half-life on source will be cool <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+May 13 2004, 01:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flayra @ May 13 2004, 01:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Though maybe we could if tommyd wanted to start by remaking tanith, pulse and faceoff... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> When he said that I originally felt it was a form of sarcasm, as if to say: "Well NS on source won't happen because it takes too much effort from everyone." But then when I see: <!--QuoteBegin-tommyd+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tommyd)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i will gladly port my maps over if NS: Source if that ever becomes a reality. i'd think porting bsps would be the easiest part. code would be a pain.
just give me the new hammer already, valve!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It shows me the dedication that a lot of the contributors to this project have, NS may just get onto that new shiny engine some day. Maybe Flayra was actually being honest when he said that, who knows?
I'd love to see NS on source as most would. I also figured though that since Unknown Worlds are to start work on a new game with it's own engine, Flayra will eventually take a back seat in NS development leaving it to some of the other devs that he's recruited over its life time. Now I know these devs are all talented but I would imagine that nobody knows how the code of NS works as well as Flayra, so they'd struggle porting more than he would. Maybe an NS2 coded from scratch would be more likely if the project was left to the newer devs? Or maybe that would be the most likely even if Flayra headed the project... I don't know, I'm just guessing. I guess time will tell, either way I cannot wait for what lies ahead.
I've said it once and I'll say it again I would buy half life 2 soley to play ns if it gets moved over.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think Flay should organize a team of volunteers to do the port, while he and his company focus on their retail projects: sort of like what Valve does with their various teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
But the current NS isn't that bad. It's very popular mod, and we should be happy about that. I don't think that NS will lose a lot of players, when HL2 coes out, if NS isn't ported to source. A lot of games on the market has better graphics today.
As already mentioned in this thread, it will be a very big job to port NS to source, and if possible we should start small. I'm sure that if flayra asked for someone to make NS-source maps and skins, they would pop up somewhere in the community, we have a lot of good mappers already, I'm sure at least some of them would like to make maps for source. And like the bast and nancy remake teams, we could have map-porting teams, that would try and transfer the maps to a source version with better graphics ?
just give me the new hammer already, valve!
If the dev team ports the ns code into a new engine, sure that a lot of bugs are going to be corrected, but beeing realistic, probably a lot of new bugs will appear.
Doing a fast conversion isnt going to worth it, and im sure that flayra knows this, and that he is going to do the best for ns, even if that means not to have an ns soon when hl2 appears.
Correct the few bugs that ns still have, or recode everything and test everything again only for some better graphics¿? The hl2 ns version its going to be really late, maybe it will be ns2 , who knows...
Sure, if you are all about fragging as much as possible, then playing with low-poly models and stuff isn't such a big deal.
However, I and probably some others as well, tries to 'experience' NS, rather than conquring (spelling?) it.
Just imagine seeing the ripples on the water of some recent passing skulk. How that skulk just lays ambush below the water, and you were unable to see it, due to surface reflexions, and the chaos when it breaks the water with a big splash and attacks.
Graphics DO affect gameplay. But as you say, gameplay is not only dependant on graphics. There are just so many cool scenarios one can imagine with NS on source. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/RexM
That alone gives many new possibilities.
And I wonder if you could destroy walls etc with that thing.. just imagine a rampart onos charching through walls.. or they could not be blocked as it is now, as the physics engine would move lightweighted objects out of the way ie. players.
Physics alone affect gameplay a lot, it creates.. well a sort of being there feeling, that you can interact with the gameworld..
And graphics really do affect the feeling a lot as it has been said, in the older times when the entity counts were high the maps looked much cooler than they do now.. nowdays they are very dull looking.. and we all know that dynamic lights for example are very nice.
But one thing thats really offtopic is the thing, that in games if there is even a small difference in heights can cause a deadend and you need to jump over it.. in rl we just raise our foots a little and step over.. a little thing but an annoying one, I just wonder if that sort of things ever get corrected <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: A thought popped into my mind.. wonder if you can bhop with Source <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One could imagine, that with the "realistic" physics and stuff that could not be possible anymore... I sure hope so.
I'd love to see like 2 or 3 marines lifting an Onos with that tractorgun, or flinging a skulk half way across the room <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->, but anyways; I'd eat my dogs claws to play NS on Source, it's not only the graphics, but the whole physics engine.
I can't even imagine the magnitude of how it would affect gameplay, but it would seriously rock <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
aww man, freespace 2 on the source engine would be sweet -- accordin to gabe, its easy to add new vehicles, so flying ones could work fine -- you could make a custom skybox for space, and have dogfights and stuff -- that'd own!
also, i wanna see a starship troopers mod for hl2...
--------------
and mabye the port could finally have volumetric flamethrowers like flay wants... mmmmm
but i'll probably have a 9800XT by then
Yes, HL mods have lasted a long time, but let's face it: that time is passing, and the steady loss of people who will be playing HL1 (old version) mods after HL2 comes will soon accelerate. A ported NS could be REALLY popular, bring in extra revenue for Flay's new company.
NS:S would be cool but if it gets in the way of NS2 then I say stay with HL1
maybe we should do fund rasing, somewhat like the constelation but to help the dev team if they do decide to work on ns for hl2.
Porting NS over would be an excellent idea. However, the team would want to completely redo the models, skins, and the animations associated with movement and attack. Also, to make the game that much better, maps should have a more realistic environment to them, such a shooting a control panel and the panel breaking apart in an interesting manner, and maybe causing electric shocks to anything that touches it. The environment should be a foe in itself, particularly during a fire fight. Think about a grenade launcher hitting metal...the metal's going to be wrenched and torn while melting apart. Having the environment interact with the players would bring far more people into the game because, except for scripted sequences, no game has really had a truly interactive environment.
I'd say that the largest problem with Natural Selection is that, with the newest generation of games coming out, the Half Life engine graphics are taking something away from the game. It's not the games's fault at all. It is, after all, a Half Life mod. With Half Life 2's release only a few months away, getting ready to port it over should be a top priority on everyone's minds. The gameplay for Natural Selection is astounding and original. Now take one of the world's most advanced graphics engines for gaming and combine the two. The result will probably be the best PR that Flayra's new gaming company could ever wish for.
Natural Selection will become THE game to play. With two different styles of play (combat/classic) and one of the most stunning graphics engines ever made, it shall become something that will challenge the throne of Counter Strike in the world of online gaming.
Well if bunnyhopping does not work with source as it is now (which I doubt), then IMO it should be forgotten for all eternity.
Well if bunnyhopping does not work with source as it is now (which I doubt), then IMO it should be forgotten for all eternity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually, all of the movment in HL2 has been intact- IE you can bunnyhop all you want. Its the same movement.
2nd, I noticed this last night, when you climb ladders in HL2 you can still fire your gun, YAY! I hate games that require your hands to climb ladders
so if you think a 1:1 port of ns would be easy..I doubt it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I would love to see an NS port, even if it was only a one time thing and the HL1 version was the supported NS version.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2nd, I noticed this last night, when you climb ladders in HL2 you can still fire your gun, YAY! I hate games that require your hands to climb ladders<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not a big fan of realism are you <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Actually I agree with you though, leaving that in gives mod creators more power, although I hope the engine is capable of reasonable ladder climbing animations for multi player as some games would grealy benifit from them (*cough DOD)
As I said before, I do hope it is possible to to on the engine, but I'm just as happy that it isn't standard.
And NS on Source... omg! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
When he said that I originally felt it was a form of sarcasm, as if to say: "Well NS on source won't happen because it takes too much effort from everyone."
But then when I see:
<!--QuoteBegin-tommyd+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tommyd)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i will gladly port my maps over if NS: Source if that ever becomes a reality. i'd think porting bsps would be the easiest part. code would be a pain.
just give me the new hammer already, valve!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It shows me the dedication that a lot of the contributors to this project have, NS may just get onto that new shiny engine some day. Maybe Flayra was actually being honest when he said that, who knows?
I'd love to see NS on source as most would. I also figured though that since Unknown Worlds are to start work on a new game with it's own engine, Flayra will eventually take a back seat in NS development leaving it to some of the other devs that he's recruited over its life time. Now I know these devs are all talented but I would imagine that nobody knows how the code of NS works as well as Flayra, so they'd struggle porting more than he would. Maybe an NS2 coded from scratch would be more likely if the project was left to the newer devs? Or maybe that would be the most likely even if Flayra headed the project...
I don't know, I'm just guessing. I guess time will tell, either way I cannot wait for what lies ahead.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think Flay should organize a team of volunteers to do the port, while he and his company focus on their retail projects: sort of like what Valve does with their various teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last I checked they are still all volunteers.