2 Thing That I Don't Like Of Ns3.0b4
ikir
Join Date: 2003-07-19 Member: 18265Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
Join Date: 2003-07-19 Member: 18265Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Gold
<div class="IPBDescription">Fade's Blink, and Lerk</div> I love NS, it is my favourite game, and i want to thanks all who are involved with it. It is the best game ever.
Now i only want to say what i don't like of the last beta (4).
1-Lerk flap now doesn't use stamina. This is silly, it should be use it, BUT only very little. Fly should fatique the lerk. Only a bit but not zero.
2-Fade is too strong. Not Fade as an alien unit, but the blink. Too many players abuse the blink feature. The come kill and go and you can't kill it easily. I play in different servers every night but in everyone i seee fade own marines form middle to end game. I think that blink should be an hive 3 ability.
Ehi! This is only my opinion of course! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now i only want to say what i don't like of the last beta (4).
1-Lerk flap now doesn't use stamina. This is silly, it should be use it, BUT only very little. Fly should fatique the lerk. Only a bit but not zero.
2-Fade is too strong. Not Fade as an alien unit, but the blink. Too many players abuse the blink feature. The come kill and go and you can't kill it easily. I play in different servers every night but in everyone i seee fade own marines form middle to end game. I think that blink should be an hive 3 ability.
Ehi! This is only my opinion of course! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
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Dear god are you insane?! At the very most I can see blink being moved to second hive.... but even still, fades are like the only thing 1 hive aliens have that can fight the marines at high tech level. I don't really see anything wrong with blink anyway... it's really up to the commander whether you can kill fades or not. As in, having enough upgrades when the fades show up, handing out shotguns, instructing his marines to stay together at all times... fades will hardly ever be able to kill one marine out of that group let alone slaughter them all. I think the fade is pretty much fine the way it is, it's just the commander needs to be on the ball, and playing as if fades will appear any second.
Now i only want to say what i don't like of the last beta (4).
1-Lerk flap now doesn't use stamina. This is silly, it should be use it, BUT only very little. Fly should fatique the lerk. Only a bit but not zero.
2-Fade is too strong. Not Fade as an alien unit, but the blink. Too many players abuse the blink feature. The come kill and go and you can't kill it easily. I play in different servers every night but in everyone i seee fade own marines form middle to end game. I think that blink should be an hive 3 ability.
Ehi! This is only my opinion of course! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well in a Physical sence the Lerk should be able to fly endly, because marines can run endlessly. But yea the lerk is a bit to over powered with it endless flight. Note that for uther life fourms the same does not apply to anyting they can't do without attacking. As for the fade. making Blink Hive 3 would be good. Acid rocket goes to Hive 2. After all people want better hive 3 weapons, and with the amount blink is used and how powerful it is Ir would make a good hive 3 weapon. My only Fear is that may be too big of a change to test in pubic, but they would need a general sammaling of all players. So may be it could be tryed if we work out a way for it to be tested with both new players and experenced players. and when I say both I mean both, Without all the people who like blink where it is. A beta test could show that the fades where too weak only because they would stop coming in too early, The beta test if they do it would have to be semi-controled, not all vets but not all "noobs" So The idea I like but the only thing i see a problem with would be the testing of it on a leval to Detrime if it would work. Too many people may complan. And try to stop any effective testing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Dear god are you insane?! At the very most I can see blink being moved to second hive.... but even still, fades are like the only thing 1 hive aliens have that can fight the marines at high tech level. I don't really see anything wrong with blink anyway... it's really up to the commander whether you can kill fades or not. As in, having enough upgrades when the fades show up, handing out shotguns, instructing his marines to stay together at all times... fades will hardly ever be able to kill one marine out of that group let alone slaughter them all. I think the fade is pretty much fine the way it is, it's just the commander needs to be on the ball, and playing as if fades will appear any second.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well If acid rocket got to move to hive 2 then there would be a lot more use of it. make acis a little stonger then you may be able to work it out.
As long as the marines keep upgrading and stay in groups of 3, they should be fine. Shotguns tear fades apart like wet toilet paper anyway.
Its really depedant on the marines succes, if fades are deadly or not.
If they manage to secure 2 or 3 nodes quickly and tech up, fades won't be much of a problem.
If there is an uber fade in the team, well then that it an exceptional player and you cannot rebalance the fade based on a few exceptions.
The only problem is it might start lerks camping a bit... not a major worry though, can't imagine someone taking a lerk then not flying
...and yes, the fade is too strong, but I think the health should be lowered and the blink should be as it is.
Just curious, how do you abuse blink?
CRYBABY
all the new flight does not make flight faster,but just make it so when you kill something,your actually able to fly away without losing energy and falling to the ground
most of the time,unless its a GOOD fade,3 rines can take the fade out,if shotties its no problem
you cant really say things are overpowered because they are good when people learn to use them
"GRRR IM A EAGLE,let me just sit here and wait for a rabbit to walk past,cause i do more damage when im sitting still!"
---dumb idea---
"hmg and wep 3 should only have 10 bullets a clip,cause 1 bullet kills a skulk
"nades should shoot worms"
The only problem is it might start lerks camping a bit... not a major worry though, can't imagine someone taking a lerk then not flying<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt this would happen, becuase no energy is taken up while flying because the devs <i>wanted</i> us to use attacks more while flying
fade blink is a powerful move, so you want it nerfed.
jetpacks are insanely powerful - why not nerf them aswell? oh, and the shotgun. while you're at it, why not take MT, and remove the arms lab, and chambers.
that'll be fun won't it.
we can have a slug fest - 10 minutes for each little skirmish with the opposition.
fade blink is good. it's meant to be good. try winning a around as alien with NO quick/early fades.. it's damn damn hard - ususually only works on the basis that marines are terrible team
Anyway there's a whole bunch of suggestions there for the fade, including a simple reordering of abilities, spikes, spike cannon, and a new built-in jump to replace blink (kinda) and instead of blink a cloaking ability (hold down attack to cloak).
Too much to really repeat with much detail...how's about you go to the I&S forum and read them yourself? (NO I'm not being sarcastic)
Fades and lerks are also deceptively fragile. If you CAN hit them, even at their speeds, they will go down hard. If you can block them in and they can't escape, you have the upper hand in killing them and they usually die horribly. If the person who spends his resources on himself instead of the team isn't at the top of his game, he will die, and the aliens will no longer have upgraded lifeforms. Depending on their res income, they may not have upgraded lifeforms for quite a while. What you are seeing when you see some fade or lerk or skulk kill groups of three or even four marines is a superior player, not a superior lifeform.
The boost lerks recieved makes them much stronger for a select few who know how to really use them, and I would say makes them worth the cost of 30 resources. Fades are already quite powerful, and people with precise timing and loads of training and practice can devastate marines who aren't prepared to give every effort to kill the fade at all costs.
I like the new lerk so much. And I've always liked the 2.0-3.0 blink.
Right now the only thing that MAYBE needs boosting is the skulk. Teamwork can usually overcome the skulk's shortcomings though by ambushing, baiting, and also having excellent situational awareness helps when skulking. You die a lot more as a skulk, but they are totally free lifeforms, so that makes sense. Skulks are the weakest alien lifeform around, so I tend to be impressed the most by really good base-level skulks. You have to make the most possible use of your tiny skulk hitbox and crazy wallhugging to get away with soloing marines. Again, teamwork makes basic marines and basic skulks about ten times better. If you cover your buddy and all that stuff, the engagement generally lands on your side.</span>
I am an avid fade player myself and I do feel that the fade <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo--> is slightly unbalanced. Reducing its armor by 25 or its health by 50 would be my suggestion for a "fix". Other than that it mostly depends on the comm wether fades are a problem, as mentioned earlier.
I got no problems with lerks, picking off a divebombing lerk makes me smile every time. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/Evig
I am an avid fade player myself and I do feel that the fade <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo--> is slightly unbalanced. Reducing its armor by 25 or its health by 50 would be my suggestion for a "fix". Other than that it mostly depends on the comm wether fades are a problem, as mentioned earlier.
I got no problems with lerks, picking off a divebombing lerk makes me smile every time. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/Evig <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
the health and armor were raised in 3.0, because without the health/armor raise, fades were a 50-res floating target, that could not take one marine by itself.
In combat- fades could be unbalanced.
In ns- no.
As long as the marines keep upgrading and stay in groups of 3, they should be fine. Shotguns tear fades apart like wet toilet paper anyway.
Its really depedant on the marines succes, if fades are deadly or not.
If they manage to secure 2 or 3 nodes quickly and tech up, fades won't be much of a problem.
If there is an uber fade in the team, well then that it an exceptional player and you cannot rebalance the fade based on a few exceptions. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry but I have to disagree with you here. It is not just the 'uber-fades' who can own rines - I have lost count of the times we have set up an outpost in Hera in NS_Hera and we have two, three, even four fades blinking across. We've had 5 plus rines all with HA and SG shooting and you just CANNOT hit a fade that way - it is just too impractical to track a target moving that fast. I agree that rines can own fades in corridors, where the only directions they can blink are towards and away from rines (fish in a barrel syndrome) but in open spaces, fades are impossible to take down, especially if there are two or three, as one or two can blink while the other metabolisez the 10% at most it lost from that one lucky SG shot.
I also think that blink to hive 3 is too much, but as a fade at hive 1 i think it's too high up the tech tree too soon, so either shift it to hive 2 and have metabolise at hive 1 (healign without need for DC's must surely appeal!) or change it so it uses up more adrenaline, maybe 50% per single shot. That way, fades can blink, loose of an acid rocket or slash ONCE, then blink out again (without MC's). That way, the fade can still do hit and runs, just not do them constantly for 20 minutes. They'll have to take breathes to allow their adrenaline to go back up, unless they wanna get stuck with lvl 3 SG's and HMG's firing at them!
On a side note, lerk filght NEEDS to be changed! A disturbing number of players have learned how to 'ricochet' from floor to ceiling, sopring and umbraing as they do so. In combat especially this has made it almost impossible to hit them in any kind of open space, although in corridors a similar thing can happen to the fades. My only response so far has been to gl the floor with lvl 3 nades - a carpet of fire taht usually results in seriously wounding if not killing lerks, although i then can msg spammed with "OMG! U nub! GL HOE1!!!111!! Why do u use a gl u nubbins!!!" Once i even got kicked for doing it. All i'm going to say is that if the lerk flight model is not changed, gl spamming is going to become even more widespread, which the ricochet-lerkers cannot complain about.
Chuz
Check out www.skulkblog.blogspot.com for a report on spamming: Coming soon
In combat- fades could be unbalanced.
In ns- no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeing as I am used to stopping, and with lerk support, owning marine players, often 5-7 at a time (including HA and JP's) as a single fade I think your argument doesn't hold water.
The only thing that can stop me, is if the rines tech up ultra fast AND we the alienteam cannot play together (res****s, lame gorge stackers etc). Other than that it's usually a done deal once I get fade.
Fades are definately unbalanced in co. (but hey its co)
And imo slightly overpowered in classic.
I totally disagree with you regarding pre 3.0 fades, I used to be godlike with the old blink. Now I'm just ok.
-Evig
In combat- fades could be unbalanced.
In ns- no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seeing as I am used to stopping, and with lerk support, owning marine players, often 5-7 at a time (including HA and JP's) as a single fade I think your argument doesn't hold water.
The only thing that can stop me, is if the rines tech up ultra fast AND we the alienteam cannot play together (res****s, lame gorge stackers etc). Other than that it's usually a done deal once I get fade.
Fades are definately unbalanced in co. (but hey its co)
And imo slightly overpowered in classic.
I totally disagree with you regarding pre 3.0 fades, I used to be godlike with the old blink. Now I'm just ok.
-Evig <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm not talking about pre-3.0 fades, i'm talking about 2.1-closed beta 3.0 fades. THEY were the 50-res floating targets. They couldn't take on more then one marine (with LMGs). the increase of health/armor was the correct boost to help make them worthwhile, because they made the hitbox the size of the fade.
in 2.01, almost anyone could be a good fade. your hitbox was the size of a skulk for god sakes, you'd need 2-3 PERFECTLY placed shotgun shots, or 35 bullets from the lmg PERFECTLY placed to kill it. and the old blink was slowed by 30% because a blinking fade was moving to fast for the energy cost/ hive ability.
1-hive fades are very difficult to control and efficently kill groups of marines. With 2 hives, of course it's easy to blink around (with adren or celerity), and swipe them whenever you have the chance.
As for Blink, the only change that would still be nice is if it were like it's background, and made the Fade scary. Currently a blinking Fade is :
"On noes! The bladed Messiah comes!" as he screams towards you like Jesus with swords on his arms.
Put them back to the lower health/armour, and make blink cloak. Fades would be more like their description again, but hey, that's just my wishlist <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now to my point, ns is team game which need to have balanced teams on number BUT too in skill. If there is one godlike player in any team the chances to other team win are highly reduced. and remember yoiu are not annoyed by the fades that can´t do much which there is much more out there than those ûber-blinkers who every1.
I follow Evig to some point but:
You dont care the thing that is not annoying You. ONLY to the one that keeps killing YOU. ûber-fade blinking? just use the old blocking trap and you have dead one, naturally you have to get inside that fade`s head and know where he escapes. I personally think that one of the best fade traps is the tanith ms.
big room with 2 quit small openings, you just need to jump at the middle of it and eventually the fade pops to your sg. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> + <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo--> + door= <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
lmgs do 500 damage altogether, a fade has 300 hp and 150 armour so that is a total of 750 hp (armour = hp * 3) so 2 full lmg clips hitting about 70% would easly kill a fade, anyway it is very easy to scare a fade away and thats all you need to do to move out a bit.
And remember the commander isnt the one who is aiming, its you keep the fade in your sights and he will soon die. Any person who THINKS they can take a fade down by themselves deserves to die from the fade, Natural Selection is about teamwork even in CO, it isnt the person that is the deciding factor its the teamwork.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, do this:
1) Become a Fade
2) Get Adrenaline (and also get Celerity if it's CO)
3) Make blink in slot1
4) Hold down your attack button down forever. You'll never stop blinking. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->