Why aliens don't suck
Tgire
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3121Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3121Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Pwnage- the easy way</div>I have heard a lot of complaints about how much so-and-so alien structure/evolution/species is useless, and how much it sucks to play one. Frankly, this is BS. I play a Kharaa all the time (admittedly, I did it to even the teams at first), and let me tell you: the Kharaa, used correctly, have the potential to be equal or greater than the Marines. I'm sure by now you're muttering to yourself "Well sure, but only if you know all the other Kharaa players, and have good teamwork." This is simply untrue. I'm going to outline some basic strategies for each evolution that I personally have found to be effective.
Skulk-
1. Never EVER go head to head with a marine. People complain about getting killed all the time... and that's supposed to happen. If you fight it out with a marine head on, you lose. End of story.
2. Startle them if possible. Even on a computer game, you can be startled by a surprise you weren't expecting. And if a marine with, say, a shottie, gets startled, jerks the mouse, and misses their first shot- game over.
3. Get cloaking if possible. You need it to carry out effective suprise attacks. Silence is another good choice. The more total the suprise, the more effective it is.
4. I can not state this enough: a marine can rely on their firepower to kill someone. A skulk can not. A skulk has to play like a crazy scifi alien, not a marine with a different skin. USE THAT WALL CLIMB. Hide above doors. Hide on ceilings. Drop on people! Use Leap from the walls! A leap/bite combo attack is crippling, and the suprise factor will take a marine off guard.
5. Use that parasite! Parasite a marine from long range, preferably from a vent, and then stalk and kill them. Useful!
Gorge:
1. Web the hell out of everthing. All it costs is energy, and it makes a marine's life a living hell.
2. Avoid combat if at all possible.
3. Place offensive chambers as close to where you suspect the enemy will come from as possible. IE, if they are gonna come through a door, put offensive chambers just out of sight on either side of the door. Then put webs all over the place in their fields of fire.
Lerk:
To be honest, I haven't had much experience with the lerk yet. However, I can offer two pieces of advice: don't fire while flying if you can help it, and use umbra all the time.
Fade: Ok, the Fade is, to be honest, underpowered. However, it is still darn useful.
1. Try and stick to defense unless you have a pal or two.
2. If facing heavies with HMGs, try and get a lerk to umbra around you and fire acid rockets. When the heavies are softened, use Blink if possible and tear the bejesus out of them, otherwise keep firing acid rockets.
3. Use bilebomb even if you can't get a direct hit. This thing is more of a pain than most alien players think.
4. Carapace. Carapace. Carapace. If you can get a lerk using umbra and a lvl 3 carapace evolution, you can pretty much stand in a hallway against all comers. When they pull out the nade launchers... blink into them. If you're lucky, they will fire nades pointblank and they will all kill themselves.
5. If they have tripmines blocking a door, and are taunting you on the other side... blink through them. Pwned.
Onos:
1. Don't charge in unsupported. Try and get a fade or a couple assorted aliens to follow you in. You will probably get taken out eventually, but with a couple pals, mopup shouldn't be a problem.
2. Get Redemption. Hurl yourself at the enemy time after time. Seeing the same guy as an Onos 3 times in 5 minutes is unpleasent to say the least.
Try and play by this mantra: the Kharaa are not reskinned marines, the Kharaa are not reskinned marines, THE KHARAA ARE NOT RESKINNED MARINES. They require a more dynamic playstyle and some devious tactics, but they can beat the #### out of even a well trained marine team if used correctly. And one last piece of advice- kill the most valuable, not the most dangerous, targets first. Stealing money from the marines is the only way to fly. If you see a guy with a grenade launcher next to a guy with an LMG and who you've seen using tripmines or a welder... hit them first. Maximum cost in RPs==maximum pain for marine commander.
Skulk-
1. Never EVER go head to head with a marine. People complain about getting killed all the time... and that's supposed to happen. If you fight it out with a marine head on, you lose. End of story.
2. Startle them if possible. Even on a computer game, you can be startled by a surprise you weren't expecting. And if a marine with, say, a shottie, gets startled, jerks the mouse, and misses their first shot- game over.
3. Get cloaking if possible. You need it to carry out effective suprise attacks. Silence is another good choice. The more total the suprise, the more effective it is.
4. I can not state this enough: a marine can rely on their firepower to kill someone. A skulk can not. A skulk has to play like a crazy scifi alien, not a marine with a different skin. USE THAT WALL CLIMB. Hide above doors. Hide on ceilings. Drop on people! Use Leap from the walls! A leap/bite combo attack is crippling, and the suprise factor will take a marine off guard.
5. Use that parasite! Parasite a marine from long range, preferably from a vent, and then stalk and kill them. Useful!
Gorge:
1. Web the hell out of everthing. All it costs is energy, and it makes a marine's life a living hell.
2. Avoid combat if at all possible.
3. Place offensive chambers as close to where you suspect the enemy will come from as possible. IE, if they are gonna come through a door, put offensive chambers just out of sight on either side of the door. Then put webs all over the place in their fields of fire.
Lerk:
To be honest, I haven't had much experience with the lerk yet. However, I can offer two pieces of advice: don't fire while flying if you can help it, and use umbra all the time.
Fade: Ok, the Fade is, to be honest, underpowered. However, it is still darn useful.
1. Try and stick to defense unless you have a pal or two.
2. If facing heavies with HMGs, try and get a lerk to umbra around you and fire acid rockets. When the heavies are softened, use Blink if possible and tear the bejesus out of them, otherwise keep firing acid rockets.
3. Use bilebomb even if you can't get a direct hit. This thing is more of a pain than most alien players think.
4. Carapace. Carapace. Carapace. If you can get a lerk using umbra and a lvl 3 carapace evolution, you can pretty much stand in a hallway against all comers. When they pull out the nade launchers... blink into them. If you're lucky, they will fire nades pointblank and they will all kill themselves.
5. If they have tripmines blocking a door, and are taunting you on the other side... blink through them. Pwned.
Onos:
1. Don't charge in unsupported. Try and get a fade or a couple assorted aliens to follow you in. You will probably get taken out eventually, but with a couple pals, mopup shouldn't be a problem.
2. Get Redemption. Hurl yourself at the enemy time after time. Seeing the same guy as an Onos 3 times in 5 minutes is unpleasent to say the least.
Try and play by this mantra: the Kharaa are not reskinned marines, the Kharaa are not reskinned marines, THE KHARAA ARE NOT RESKINNED MARINES. They require a more dynamic playstyle and some devious tactics, but they can beat the #### out of even a well trained marine team if used correctly. And one last piece of advice- kill the most valuable, not the most dangerous, targets first. Stealing money from the marines is the only way to fly. If you see a guy with a grenade launcher next to a guy with an LMG and who you've seen using tripmines or a welder... hit them first. Maximum cost in RPs==maximum pain for marine commander.
Comments
LISTEN TO THIS MAN
HE IS CORRECT
</b>
Everything this man is saying is the damn truth.
Problem.
These are not expansionist strategies. They're camper strategies.
How do aliens get hives set up with these ex-CS marines rolling around blowing everything away with their superior firepower while the aliens are stuck with non-upgraded lerks and skulks.
Any strategies for the early game? Getting shotgunned while trying to build your team's first resource node is annoying.
Trust me guys, this is not how its suppose to be. With the correct Resource model, you'll be lucky to see over 200 RP's at one time - and thats if you saving for something.
I think most admins are learning from their mistakes and are reverting their config files.
The Lerks spikes work really well against turrets. It will take you a short while, granted - but to build even one turret it costs the marines 41 resources ... in the correct resource model, thats a hell of alot. It wouldn't be fair to have it cost that much if they were taken down in two hits.
Once the RP problem is taken care of, and the game is played the way it was <b>ment</b> to be played, I'm sure most of these 'balance issues' will be taken care of.
Anyway, back to taking out turrets;
Lerks spikes
As a skulk, you can actually circle strafe the turret and kill it in one attempt, it may take two - hell, its going to take alot more till you get good at it.
Hell, even gorges can destroy the turrets if the have enough resources. Just drop two turrets, build one, let the other take the fire, once that offence chamber comes up, repeat. Have about 3 or 4 up, then sit behind them and heal em.
Onos, well ... duh ..
Fade, Bile bomb or swipe if there aren't that many in the room
There are a number of ways to combat turrets. It doesnt mean you have to always run up and hold attack while it shoots your unmoving body.
Also, why aliens suck is because 90% of the server are playing marines. And when you have 12 marines in heavy armor and with an HMG you're pretty much dead, yes.
One guy with grenades will take a corridor of Offensive stations out. Aliens have no effective ranged attacks, so even WITH the speed advantage you have a heck of a time getting close to a marine.
You cannot get close to a human base as long as it has 1 turret. I am very disappointed with the balance of the game.
Look at it this way..
-Aliens needs their hive rooms..
-Marines build lots of turrets in at least 1 hive room..
-The aliens combat marine turrets with level 3 aliens and upgrades..
-Aliens are unable to obtain their level 3 aliens and upgrades because the 3rd hive room if full of turrets, and can't break through.
You may say, hide in a corner and peck away with a low level alien to kill their turrets, but almost always there's marines inside the room and kill you before you are able to take down any turrets.
I hope this balance issuse is solved with a simple RP setting, the game is so damn cool, but right now it's a pain in the ### to play as an alien...
Playing as any alien requires a certain style and finesse. Although, admittedly towards the end, there's less room for finesse with HAs with HMGs start barreling everywhere.
I don't really find the lerk's spikes to be that effective against turrets, but they are useful against them. It will take some time to destroy one turret with the spikes, but you can do it from a distance and with little harm to yourself.
The main thing a lerk is good for is bir attacks actually. With 50 damage each bite, that's a devastating bite for even HA. Try cloaking, and when a target goes by, umbra him then fly in for a quick kill.
I still have yet to play a game where the aliens win, but if enough people are educated in how aliens work, that will change. But the main problem is educating those players in the first place.
Ok?
hell, you dont need <b>any</b>. They just make the job easier. Most our games played out with the marines building a new base in a unoccupied hive and the aliens distroying the original marine base. Then a huge battle takes place for the third hive.
building 5 turrets in 1 room seriously drains the marines under the correct resource model.
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but from the 3 or so hours I've played ... I am very disappointed with the balance of the game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ugh ...
thats all I really have to say to that is just .. ugh ..
all the time and sweat and (I'm sure) tears that have gone into making this game fun and enjoyable by Flayra, Cory, the mappers, Monse ..
just ..
ugh ..
You think that didn't come up when we were playtesting the game? It came up in just about every game we ever played. NS has been perfectly balanced for the 'marines holed up in 1 hive, so aliens can only build 2' scenario. You're still learning, give it some time.
<!--EDIT|Flayra|Nov. 01 2002,17:47-->
If the aliens require finesse to win, and are not designed for 1v1 combat...how are they supposed to win? Their melee is not strong enough to kill marines effectively, their ranged is a joke, their offense things have no power and are also a joke. It is very difficult to get to the powerful aliens because the starting humans prevent you from gaining anything, due to being so much stronger.
So with the super powerful turrets, which can only be taken quickly with an onos, how can you get far enough into a humans main base to actually take them out, since they are in the back killing you while you wrestle your way through the other buildings. I see no advantages whatsoever to being alien, and am trying very hard to see them. They have no feature or ability (save for maybe the cloaking ability) that would encourage someone to choose them over the marines, which are EASY to learn and EASY to win.
Why take the time to gain "finesse" on something that you'll lose with anyways.
Like others have said before - do not play aliens as marines that look funny - play them as those little crabs in Halflife that would jump up at you while you fired your gun wildly trying to hit the damn things.
aLWAYS WITH THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS!
Right now I'm trying to learn base assaulting skills to compliment my stalking skills. Although I'm learning aliens really need to coordinate to do any base assaults, especially if they don't have the third hive.
It's up to you to make those 2 count. If you don't play it right, you'll miss, and you'll die. That's just how it works.
Also, remember that marines must expand in order to win. They WILL walk out of that base, just make sure you're waiting there to ambush the group when that happens. If they still stand and guard bases, the aliens will just get the third hive with plenty of base killing weaponry like bile bombs and the dreaded onos.
the fact I was 38 and 7 tonight, or that I took out 3 marines and a HA as a fade by myself, at the same time ..
or the when I took the Archive hive on hera back from the marines by my self when they had 8 turrets outside, 5 inside, 2 sieges and a phase gate - not to mention 1 HA and 3 HMG marines as a lerk
or, I blinked up into the tunnel right outside of the Cargo hive on Cage and swiped all 4 marines as a fade
or the time I ambused 4 marines walking down the ladder, at that same tunnel as a skulk, before which I had placed parasites on all 4 of them.
<!--EDIT|Flayra|Nov. 01 2002,18:03-->
The marine turrets are just sick man.. what attack do you usually use with the Onos to frag them because I can never seem to hurt the things.. on the other hand I do get a great deal of satisfaction when I skitter through the entire defensive web with a lone skulk <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
Alien Offensive pods.. on their own they suck, but I never plant them on their own. Put a couple toghether then I web the living hell out of the area (and I love how hard you guys made it to see those things, it's perfect). Anyway web the area down and laugh as some poor marine sap runs right into it and gets shot apart.
I've only gotten to play a partial game as a marine so far so I won't comment on them.
Skulks- RULE! I love playing as these little guys, I just wish I could get the xenocide earlier on.. though I agree with what was mentioned in another post it really needs some kind of indicator that you're hitting or maybe make the mouth transluscent, I just can't tell when I'm doing anything.
Gorge- Webs and babblers toghether make for great fun. Usually I lay down some defenses then spend the rest of the time laying ambushes (web a cooridor in multiple places then wait around the corner.. when some sad marine stumbles into it pop around drop a few babblers or start pasting him with the spit, if he has friends duck around the corner and then come back around when he stumbles into the second web trap).
Lerk- Haven't played this enough to really comment other than to happily crow at the HA-HMG marine I offed with the needles earlier.
Fade- My main problem with him is that I can't seem to fire the bile bomb without hurting myself. Other than that I haven't played enough of him to comment further
Onos- You guys wrote your descriptions way too good because when I played the Onos I was kinda dissapointed when a mere two turrets and one punk with an LMG brought me down when I was expecting to go on a base smashing rampage.. and I can't seem to do much of anything against turrets. I'll have to try him a few more times now that i know the reality of playing with him.. I can't seem to do much of anything to turrets (mashes marines real good though).
Now since I've been playing I've not seen the aliens win a single game (though several times I've seen sentry gun forests that can only be a product of an admin not keeping the proper resource model), and most of the time I end up dying more than I do killing, but I still had an absolute BLAST playing as the aliens.
Great work guys.
BugHunt's Favorite scenario:
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/skulk.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::skulk::'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::asrifle::'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/pudgy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::gorge::'><!--endemo-->
Over all though, this has to be the best online team fps I've played sense TFC came out 3 years ago. A+ on everything but netcode and balance. Sense it's 5AM I'm going to sleep!
<!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> I'm very impressed! <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
Stalking is the most fun you can ever have. I followed 2 marines in another game for about 10 minutes. Now and then they'd look back, I'd park in a dark corner and sit still. I could see them looking for me, but couldn't see me. I was like 10 meters away even. It was great! And when I did finally assault them, I got one before he even figured it out what was happening. It was great!
yea .. your right sir
hell, I'm not even really a play tester, sir. They just put this title under my name to make me feel better ... when ever I try to PT, Monse just kicks me out of the server .. big meanie ...
Man .. you really got my number, sir. Guess I should goto bed now before you really let me have it.
Good day sir.
<!--EDIT|Silver Fox|Nov. 01 2002,04:09-->
I really suggest you go cool off, and play the game with a clear mind.
As for humans always winning. They currently win by a wide majority, however alien wins do happen. They will probably happen a lot more frequentry once alien players learn alien tactics (and some auto-team balancing code gets added <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->).