Why aliens don't suck

TgireTgire Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3121Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Pwnage- the easy way</div>I have heard a lot of complaints about how much so-and-so alien structure/evolution/species is useless, and how much it sucks to play one. Frankly, this is BS. I play a Kharaa all the time (admittedly, I did it to even the teams at first), and let me tell you: the Kharaa, used correctly, have the potential to be equal or greater than the Marines. I'm sure by now you're muttering to yourself "Well sure, but only if you know all the other Kharaa players, and have good teamwork." This is simply untrue. I'm going to outline some basic strategies for each evolution that I personally have found to be effective.

Skulk-
1. Never EVER go head to head with a marine. People complain about getting killed all the time... and that's supposed to happen. If you fight it out with a marine head on, you lose. End of story.
2. Startle them if possible. Even on a computer game, you can be startled by a surprise you weren't expecting. And if a marine with, say, a shottie, gets startled, jerks the mouse, and misses their first shot- game over.
3. Get cloaking if possible. You need it to carry out effective suprise attacks. Silence is another good choice. The more total the suprise, the more effective it is.
4. I can not state this enough: a marine can rely on their firepower to kill someone. A skulk can not. A skulk has to play like a crazy scifi alien, not a marine with a different skin. USE THAT WALL CLIMB. Hide above doors. Hide on ceilings. Drop on people! Use Leap from the walls! A leap/bite combo attack is crippling, and the suprise factor will take a marine off guard.
5. Use that parasite! Parasite a marine from long range, preferably from a vent, and then stalk and kill them. Useful!

Gorge:
1. Web the hell out of everthing. All it costs is energy, and it makes a marine's life a living hell.
2. Avoid combat if at all possible.
3. Place offensive chambers as close to where you suspect the enemy will come from as possible. IE, if they are gonna come through a door, put offensive chambers just out of sight on either side of the door. Then put webs all over the place in their fields of fire.

Lerk:
To be honest, I haven't had much experience with the lerk yet. However, I can offer two pieces of advice: don't fire while flying if you can help it, and use umbra all the time.

Fade: Ok, the Fade is, to be honest, underpowered. However, it is still darn useful.
1. Try and stick to defense unless you have a pal or two.
2. If facing heavies with HMGs, try and get a lerk to umbra around you and fire acid rockets. When the heavies are softened, use Blink if possible and tear the bejesus out of them, otherwise keep firing acid rockets.
3. Use bilebomb even if you can't get a direct hit. This thing is more of a pain than most alien players think.
4. Carapace. Carapace. Carapace. If you can get a lerk using umbra and a lvl 3 carapace evolution, you can pretty much stand in a hallway against all comers. When they pull out the nade launchers... blink into them. If you're lucky, they will fire nades pointblank and they will all kill themselves.
5. If they have tripmines blocking a door, and are taunting you on the other side... blink through them. Pwned.

Onos:
1. Don't charge in unsupported. Try and get a fade or a couple assorted aliens to follow you in. You will probably get taken out eventually, but with a couple pals, mopup shouldn't be a problem.
2. Get Redemption. Hurl yourself at the enemy time after time. Seeing the same guy as an Onos 3 times in 5 minutes is unpleasent to say the least.

Try and play by this mantra: the Kharaa are not reskinned marines, the Kharaa are not reskinned marines, THE KHARAA ARE NOT RESKINNED MARINES. They require a more dynamic playstyle and some devious tactics, but they can beat the #### out of even a well trained marine team if used correctly. And one last piece of advice- kill the most valuable, not the most dangerous, targets first. Stealing money from the marines is the only way to fly. If you see a guy with a grenade launcher next to a guy with an LMG and who you've seen using tripmines or a welder... hit them first. Maximum cost in RPs==maximum pain for marine commander.
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Comments

  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <b>People!

    LISTEN TO THIS MAN

    HE IS CORRECT
    </b>

    Everything this man is saying is the damn truth.
  • deviundeviun Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3264Members
    The aliens have some nice stuff... but my biggest complaint about them is that they have nothing that can really clear out turrets well. Marines can build a wall of turrets and the aliens are screwed, but aliens build a wall of the offense things and the marines just blow through them. Maybe if you get some high level stuff like bile bomb and onos you might have a chance to get through turrets. But if you only have 1 or 2 hives and they have the 3rd hive covered with turrets, how the hell are you supposed to get in there, especially since they can build them 2 times faster than they can be destroyed
  • degoose69degoose69 Join Date: 2002-10-29 Member: 1693Members
    absolutley this is a great game.i found no problems and i just had a 1 and half hour game.It was brilliant and the aliens were kicking the marines ###.Well done NS team.Great job and thumbs.Ignore these CS players u did good <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::asrifle::'><!--endemo-->    <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->  <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
  • HerrSpitzvogelHerrSpitzvogel Join Date: 2002-10-23 Member: 1573Members
    Great strategies.

    Problem.

    These are not expansionist strategies. They're camper strategies.

    How do aliens get hives set up with these ex-CS marines rolling around blowing everything away with their superior firepower while the aliens are stuck with non-upgraded lerks and skulks.

    Any strategies for the early game? Getting shotgunned while trying to build your team's first resource node is annoying.
  • vesentacvesentac Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3281Members
    agreed.. only thing that can effectively take out a turret is an onos.  <!--emo&:(--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':('><!--endemo-->
  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    There is a problem right now with admins editing the resource amounts.  It leads to 2000+ RP's and 500 turrets in every room.

    Trust me guys, this is not how its suppose to be.  With the correct Resource model, you'll be lucky to see over 200 RP's at one time - and thats if you saving for something.

    I think most admins are learning from their mistakes and are reverting their config files.

    The Lerks spikes work really well against turrets.  It will take you a short while, granted - but to build even one turret it costs the marines 41 resources ... in the correct resource model, thats a hell of alot.  It wouldn't be fair to have it cost that much if they were taken down in two hits.

    Once the RP problem is taken care of, and the game is played the way it was <b>ment</b> to be played, I'm sure most of these 'balance issues' will be taken care of.

    Anyway, back to taking out turrets;

    Lerks spikes
    As a skulk, you can actually circle strafe the turret and kill it in one attempt, it may take two - hell, its going to take alot more till you get good at it.
    Hell, even gorges can destroy the turrets if the have enough resources.  Just drop two turrets, build one, let the other take the fire, once that offence chamber comes up, repeat.  Have about 3 or 4 up, then sit behind them and heal em.
    Onos, well ... duh ..
    Fade, Bile bomb or swipe if there aren't that many in the room

    There are a number of ways to combat turrets.  It doesnt mean you have to always run up and hold attack while it shoots your unmoving body.
  • WarfareWarfare Join Date: 2002-10-29 Member: 1697Members
    I think I've never been killed my an alien offensive chamber. In fact, I don't think I've ever been hit (probably hence why I saw a corridor full of them). Now I haven't seen the marine turrets shoot any aliens, but I assume it's something á la HL turret.

    Also, why aliens suck is because 90% of the server are playing marines. And when you have 12 marines in heavy armor and with an HMG you're pretty much dead, yes.
  • newerakbnewerakb Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3047Members
    I've only got one night of experience in the game, but from the 3 or so hours I've played, Humans are superior in every aspect to Aliens.

    One guy with grenades will take a corridor of Offensive stations out. Aliens have no effective ranged attacks, so even WITH the speed advantage you have a heck of a time getting close to a marine.

    You cannot get close to a human base as long as it has 1 turret. I am very disappointed with the balance of the game.
  • saberxsaberx Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3044Members
    As for this resource point thing being set higher than it's supposed to be, I don't know, and that could be why the marines seem to be unstoppable once they get going.

    Look at it this way..

    -Aliens needs their hive rooms..
    -Marines build lots of turrets in at least 1 hive room..
    -The aliens combat marine turrets with level 3 aliens and upgrades..
    -Aliens are unable to obtain their level 3 aliens and upgrades because the 3rd hive room if full of turrets, and can't break through.

    You may say, hide in a corner and peck away with a low level alien to kill their turrets, but almost always there's marines inside the room and kill you before you are able to take down any turrets.

    I hope this balance issuse is solved with a simple RP setting, the game is so damn cool, but right now it's a pain in the ### to play as an alien...
  • TurtleTurtle Join Date: 2002-10-18 Member: 1540Members
    Amen!  I really like playing the aliens, even though I still think some minor changes can be made (mainly in indicators, and not actual gameplay changes)

    Playing as any alien requires a certain style and finesse.  Although, admittedly towards the end, there's less room for finesse with HAs with HMGs start barreling everywhere.

    I don't really find the lerk's spikes to be that effective against turrets, but they are useful against them.  It will take some time to destroy one turret with the spikes, but you can do it from a distance and with little harm to yourself.

    The main thing a lerk is good for is bir attacks actually.  With 50 damage each bite, that's a devastating bite for even HA.  Try cloaking, and when a target goes by, umbra him then fly in for a quick kill.

    I still have yet to play a game where the aliens win, but if enough people are educated in how aliens work, that will change.  But the main problem is educating those players in the first place.
  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    look, you dont have to have 3 hives to win.

    Ok?

    hell, you dont need <b>any</b>.  They just make the job easier.  Most our games played out with the marines building a new base in a unoccupied hive and the aliens distroying the original marine base.  Then a huge battle takes place for the third hive.

    building 5 turrets in 1 room seriously drains the marines under the correct resource model.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    but from the 3 or so hours I've played ... I am very disappointed with the balance of the game<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ugh ...

    thats all I really have to say to that is just .. ugh ..

    all the time and sweat and (I'm sure) tears that have gone into making this game fun and enjoyable by Flayra, Cory, the mappers, Monse ..

    just ..

    ugh ..
  • GreedoGreedo Bounty Hunter Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 37Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <span style='color:green'>Please stop complaining about marines taking over hive rooms!  I'm a bit worked up over this!</span>

    You think that didn't come up when we were playtesting the game?  It came up in just about every game we ever played.  NS has been perfectly balanced for the 'marines holed up in 1 hive, so aliens can only build 2' scenario.  You're still learning, give it some time.



    <!--EDIT|Flayra|Nov. 01 2002,17:47-->
  • newerakbnewerakb Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3047Members
    You know, if I truly believed that my current opinion was going to stay that way, I wouldn't have bothered to mention how short a time I've played. I said it to let you know I was giving my FIRST IMPRESSIONS. So get off your high horse, and start acting like a human...."ugh" yourself.

    If the aliens require finesse to win, and are not designed for 1v1 combat...how are they supposed to win? Their melee is not strong enough to kill marines effectively, their ranged is a joke, their offense things have no power and are also a joke. It is very difficult to get to the powerful aliens because the starting humans prevent you from gaining anything, due to being so much stronger.

    So with the super powerful turrets, which can only be taken quickly with an onos, how can you get far enough into a humans main base to actually take them out, since they are in the back killing you while you wrestle your way through the other buildings. I see no advantages whatsoever to being alien, and am trying very hard to see them. They have no feature or ability (save for maybe the cloaking ability) that would encourage someone to choose them over the marines, which are EASY to learn and EASY to win.

    Why take the time to gain "finesse" on something that you'll lose with anyways.
  • RangskRangsk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2157Members
    I really have to say that there's something about aliens that many people overlook - they're freakin' SCARY.  The first time I played as a marine, I jumped 10 feet when a skulk leaped at me.  I remember playing Halflife single-player... now, imagine playing that, except all the enemies aren't scripted events controlled by an AI, they're real people who are just as smart as you and possibly much more powerfull.  Imagine what a crafty alien can do to scare a group of marines shitless.  That is the power of the aliens.

    Like others have said before - do not play aliens as marines that look funny - play them as those little crabs in Halflife that would jump up at you while you fired your gun wildly trying to hit the damn things.
  • Dog_of_WarDog_of_War Join Date: 2002-10-26 Member: 1626Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--NightShade+Nov. 01 2002,06:40--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (NightShade @ Nov. 01 2002,06:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->amen to that. aliens suck no matter how you put it. It is not going to change<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    aLWAYS WITH THE NEGATIVE THOUGHTS!
  • Dog_of_WarDog_of_War Join Date: 2002-10-26 Member: 1626Members
    I enjoy playing aliens and marines,It's sad how ppl overlook aliens,everyone wants to be marines!Yes the game is a little unballanced.Skulk needs some kind of crazy claw attack more powerful bite.Aliens need to be stronger more hp and armor.Once you get up close to a marine heäs srewed (If you kow what you are doing thsat is.
  • TurtleTurtle Join Date: 2002-10-18 Member: 1540Members
    Argh!  Guys!  Balance is more than just damage and health values.  Look at the maps, there's the balance for the aliens.  MANY crawlspaces to setup ambushes from, the only problem being learning how to navigate those maps quickly as an alien.  Once you learn that, you become a menace to the marine side.

    Right now I'm trying to learn base assaulting skills to compliment my stalking skills.  Although I'm learning aliens really need to coordinate to do any base assaults, especially if they don't have the third hive.
  • GreedoGreedo Bounty Hunter Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 37Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Melee attack not strong enough?  Every alien class that has a melee attack (except the lerk) can take down a marine in 2 bites/slashes/whatever. <span style='color:red'>2.</span>

    It's up to you to make those 2 count.  If you don't play it right, you'll miss, and you'll die.  That's just how it works.
  • NightShadeNightShade Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2219Members
    Ok whats the point of being a stalker when. A most of them stay at there base or turrets where it is safe. I played 3 games and all they did was stay back and guard turrets. *yawn*
  • TurtleTurtle Join Date: 2002-10-18 Member: 1540Members
    Well then that requires some coordination on the aliens.  It's pretty hard for new players, I suppose once people understand the tactics, people will respond to requests for coordinated attacks more regularly.

    Also, remember that marines must expand in order to win.  They WILL walk out of that base, just make sure you're waiting there to ambush the group when that happens.  If they still stand and guard bases, the aliens will just get the third hive with plenty of base killing weaponry like bile bombs and the dreaded onos.
  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Yes ...

    the fact I was 38 and 7 tonight, or that I took out 3 marines and a HA as a fade by myself, at the same time ..

    or the when I took the Archive hive on hera back from the marines by my self when they had 8 turrets outside, 5 inside, 2 sieges and a phase gate - not to mention 1 HA and 3 HMG marines as a lerk

    or, I blinked up into the tunnel right outside of the Cargo hive on Cage and swiped all 4 marines as a fade

    or the time I ambused 4 marines walking down the ladder, at that same tunnel as a skulk, before which I had placed parasites on all 4 of them.



    <!--EDIT|Flayra|Nov. 01 2002,18:03-->
  • BugHuntBugHunt Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3337Members
    I've only played the game a few times but I must say:

    The marine turrets are just sick man.. what attack do you usually use with the Onos to frag them because I can never seem to hurt the things.. on the other hand I do get a great deal of satisfaction when I skitter through the entire defensive web with a lone skulk <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->

    Alien Offensive pods.. on their own they suck, but I never plant them on their own.  Put a couple toghether then I web the living hell out of the area (and I love how hard you guys made it to see those things, it's perfect).  Anyway web the area down and laugh as some poor marine sap runs right into it and gets shot apart.

    I've only gotten to play a partial game as a marine so far so I won't comment on them.

    Skulks- RULE!  I love playing as these little guys, I just wish I could get the xenocide earlier on.. though I agree with what was mentioned in another post it really needs some kind of indicator that you're hitting or maybe make the mouth transluscent, I just can't tell when I'm doing anything.

    Gorge- Webs and babblers toghether make for great fun.  Usually I lay down some defenses then spend the rest of the time laying ambushes (web a cooridor in multiple places then wait around the corner.. when some sad marine stumbles into it pop around drop a few babblers or start pasting him with the spit, if he has friends duck around the corner and then come back around when he stumbles into the second web trap).

    Lerk- Haven't played this enough to really comment other than to happily crow at the HA-HMG marine I offed with the needles earlier.

    Fade- My main problem with him is that I can't seem to fire the bile bomb without hurting myself. Other than that I haven't played enough of him to comment further  

    Onos- You guys wrote your descriptions way too good because when I played the Onos I was kinda dissapointed when a mere two turrets and one punk with an LMG brought me down when I was expecting to go on a base smashing rampage.. and I can't seem to do much of anything against turrets.  I'll have to try him a few more times now that i know the reality of playing with him.. I can't seem to do much of anything to turrets (mashes marines real good though).


    Now since I've been playing I've not seen the aliens win a single game (though several times I've seen sentry gun forests that can only be a product of an admin not keeping the proper resource model), and most of the time I end up dying more than I do killing, but I still had an absolute BLAST playing as the aliens.

    Great work guys.

    BugHunt's Favorite scenario:

    <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/skulk.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::skulk::'><!--endemo-->  <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/asrifle.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::asrifle::'><!--endemo-->  <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/pudgy.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::gorge::'><!--endemo-->
  • o0oSPuNKiEo0oo0oSPuNKiEo0o Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2895Members
    I have to agree that the aliens are underpowered compared to the marines. I've played for 7 hours straight sense I've downloaded the game. But from playing both the aliens and the marines, the maries have a lot of advantages over the aliens. The biggest problem with the aliens is they don't have any good ranged attack. Once a marine takes over a hive room, the game is toast and is just a matter of time before they're gone. The one major advantage is they can run the marines at the start and take them all out if they aliens work together.

    Over all though, this has to be the best online team fps I've played sense TFC came out 3 years ago. A+ on everything but netcode and balance. Sense it's 5AM I'm going to sleep!

    <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> I'm very impressed!   <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
  • BigDBigD [OldF] Join Date: 2002-10-25 Member: 1596Members
    Send out all your skulks to the marine base from the start.  I was marine a few hours ago, joined a game where our fricking command console was destroyed.  We had 5 marines on 3 aliens with nothing but ammo holding off the aliens until the onos made it into our base 3 too many times.  Properly cooridnated, knowing where you are going, all will come with time.  I had some great games tonight (W00t found low ping server&#33<!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo--> and this is not a game to sit and camp.  If I would've had back up in many of my assaults to take back one of our hives, could've easily had them.  I mean I was one, unupgraded skulk, going against three heavies and taking ONE down with me.  Until they managed to get up some turrets between my death.  PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.  
    Stalking is the most fun you can ever have.  I followed 2 marines in another game for about 10 minutes.  Now and then they'd look back, I'd park in a dark corner and sit still.  I could see them looking for me, but couldn't see me.  I was like 10 meters away even.  It was great!  And when I did finally assault them, I got one before he even figured it out what was happening.  It was great!
  • Silver_FoxSilver_Fox Spammer Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 34Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    full of crap eh ..

    yea .. your right sir

    hell, I'm not even really a play tester, sir.  They just put this title under my name to make me feel better ... when ever I try to PT, Monse just kicks me out of the server .. big meanie ...

    Man .. you really got my number, sir.  Guess I should goto bed now before you really let me have it.

    Good day sir.



    <!--EDIT|Silver Fox|Nov. 01 2002,04:09-->
  • danshyudanshyu Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2105Members
    I still think Aliens should at least spawn faster then the Marines...  And make em easier to play then how it is now so more people would join Alien Team and we'll have more balanced team games...  <!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->
  • NightShadeNightShade Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2219Members
    i dont care if you are a play tester. what i am saying is that humans will always beat the aliens. skill or not it will take us time to learn aliens but on the same time they will be learning also. So in the end it will be the same. I test games also i know how it is. But i also know that i look for issues like this. If the public has a prob with gameplay then it is the testers fault for not letting team know.
  • TurtleTurtle Join Date: 2002-10-18 Member: 1540Members
    Geez Nightshade, many of us here have acknowledged your complaints and have provided fair rebuttals to those arguements, and now you're attacking the character of a forum member just because you don't agree with him.  That's just childish.

    I really suggest you go cool off, and play the game with a clear mind.

    As for humans always winning.  They currently win by a wide majority, however alien wins do happen.  They will probably happen a lot more frequentry once alien players learn alien tactics (and some auto-team balancing code gets added <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->).
  • DoctorJuiceDoctorJuice Join Date: 2002-02-13 Member: 212Members, Constellation
    /me spreads the luvvvvvvvv
  • NightShadeNightShade Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2219Members
    turtle for one if i was attacking them it would be alot diffrent. i am stating a fact. They have said it was skill. when it is *seems to be* lack of testing. But then again maybe i am wrong. Maybe in there eyes everything is even. But every sever i went to has aliens fussing and the humans doing what the testers are doing. saying you just suck. Go figure
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