Yes to get better you do have to scrim players better than you. However after working with clan asking for help the other day a team with no experience you quickly realize that delta teams are way out of their league. When you are first starting out you have to try to find lower level clans. Either getting bashed into nothing or having a delta clan toy around with you for a few minutes before a mercy killing really does not help.
But if you have a team and have scrimmed a bit have formulated some strats that work then you should be looking to scrim the good teams. Even scrimming marginally better teams will make you better though. People who are giving the opposite advice should ring for a new clan and watch how demoralized they get when they get stomped, its not pretty.
<!--QuoteBegin-shanks+Apr 28 2004, 08:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (shanks @ Apr 28 2004, 08:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> it's wierd - the USA side of NS is all on gamesurge, the euro side of NS is all on quakenet.
why the split? :x <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> maybe because euros founded quakenet and americans founded gamesurge?
Don't be afraid to ask the those top teams where you went wrong, and what you need to improve on. I know many people who have pmed me after a scrim and asked for advice, etc.
<!--QuoteBegin-SilverWolf-+Apr 29 2004, 12:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SilverWolf- @ Apr 29 2004, 12:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't be afraid to ask the those top teams where you went wrong, and what you need to improve on. I know many people who have pmed me after a scrim and asked for advice, etc.
Just pm one of the members, not all of us bite
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Lol nobody has ever EVER asked eR any question about a scrim to my knowledge. Then again wth do we know... we just pray to cows and they light our path.
Hawthe makes a very good point which a lot of people don't seem to get. You will learn very little if anything by beating clans which aren't as skilled as yourselves. Camping their hive & then taking it out with a 21 siege salute might seem like fun but you'll be damning yourselves to mediocrity. You play a clan who are more skilled than yourselves & I guarantee unless you're amazingly stupid or just plain ignorant you'll pick up some of thier tips, tricks, tactics etc. You may get whipped 4 - 0 but after a few games those 4 - 0s will be harder fought for the more skilled team. Then they'll turn into 3 - 1's and before you know it you're getting 2 - 2 draws vs teams you thought were the best thing since sliced HAM.
For a perfect example see <a href='http://www.clanbase.com/news_league.php?nid=121204&mid=32162&lid=1322' target='_blank'>http://www.clanbase.com/news_league.php?ni...=32162&lid=1322</a> I'm sure you all know of BM. Some of you might know of VETS. Watch the demos of that match (was in 3.0 beta 3) and you'll probably agree VETS could've taken it 3 - 1.
So play the higher skilled clans. Even they need to test out new map strategies or even just get some scrim time in to keep their team sharp & together. It'll help you more than it'll hurt (I hope).
Although I do not have the time to join clans/scrim a lot, I find this thread quite inspiring. I am going to give this a slight bump in hopes of helping the clan scene.
Record HLTV demos whenever u can, u can view thos demos from all prespectives, very usefull to learn, watch them 12 times if necesary, and keep in mind the camping places, and the improvised tactics(like 2 marines c12) that those clan use. Try to watch as much demos as u can, when u dominate the tactics and the camping places everything is easier, then u only must become skilled.
Anyway yes, the reasoning here is pretty common sense-ish. You don't get a workout unless you're facing resistance. Sure, you might totally strain your muscles if you try to bench 300 one day, but the concept is the same.
Certainly, you don't get anywhere by taking the path of least resistance.
He's right. My first clan went from not being able to beat anyone at all in 1.0X and still playing the top aussie teams regularly to being voted the second best clan in 1.04 - 8 months later after much hard work and playing the best. Spectate and replicate.
Just like how ReD and SiD wooped evil back in the days. Good times.
I hope all you new clanners have fun in NS and play your hardest. NS needs all the glory it can get. Make friends, and your chemistry for teamwork will go up up up.
<!--QuoteBegin-kavasa+Apr 27 2004, 11:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kavasa @ Apr 27 2004, 11:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've been on both sides of the line, and it's kind of dependant. If you're just filled with fiery kung fu passion to get better and stand over your crushed animes while the wind blows through your hair, then yeah, scrim the top clans all day. Sometimes however, your clan is a fragile and delicate and sickly duckling that needs special love from a miniature duckling respirator and getting pounded into the ground several times in a row will just make you stop playing ns. In that case, uh, take it easy. Scrim some cal-i people every so often, because the teamplay thing is accurate, developing rock solid teamwork is harder than developing the killer dm skills. Don't kill your team, though. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well honestly I've been on both sides too and I think that if a clan IS that fragile then trying to nurture it by playing crappy clans is one of the worst things you can do. as I think roq said, you're just building false confidence, your clan will beat down on nubbies and then you'll try to play a delta clan and be back at square 1 because "we could've beaten them"
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->well honestly I've been on both sides too and I think that if a clan IS that fragile then trying to nurture it by playing crappy clans is one of the worst things you can do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah totally. Don't play <i>crappy</i> clans, play clans that are close to your level, if you're in the situation where getting your **** kicked too much will just make people quit. So cal-o clans can be playing Animosity and inc instead of eR and dn, and I doubt that will do them any harm.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
Maybe when a really good clan is scrimming a beginning clan, the good clan can go easier on the beginning one? Go full out with strategy, but maybe miss a few more shots intentionally, or not bunnyhopping as aliens. Give those people who may not have uber aim and leet bunnyhopping skills a change to test out their strategies.
TekdudeJoin Date: 2003-04-13Member: 15455Members, Constellation, Forum staff
edited May 2004
The only problem we have with scrimming better clans... is we feel we are wasting your time. By smashing us, you are getting little to no practice at all.
<!--QuoteBegin-Tekdude+May 11 2004, 08:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tekdude @ May 11 2004, 08:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only problem we have with scrimming better clans... is we feel we are wasting your time. By smashing us, you are getting little to no practice at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dont feel that way. My clan had the same problem but we kept with it and made it to playoffs. Learn from mistakes. Practice as a team. If your team aim sucks practice using a new mouse or new sensitivity.
There's a difference between a good aimer and a person who just changes his sensitivity to adjust to him.
Aim in itself, is the muscle knowledge that is used in hand eye coordination. It's a very tough to skill to master. People who have good aim in RL sports are usually good aimers in games or anything.
Warrior is right. All we did for CAl is scrim exi. and ER(two of the top clans) over and over. We never won a single time, but it helped us learn inventive tactics and hone our skills. It really doesnt matter if you lose because its only practice.
<!--QuoteBegin-vortex+May 15 2004, 02:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (vortex @ May 15 2004, 02:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It really doesnt matter if you lose because its only practice. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes
<!--QuoteBegin-Soberana+May 15 2004, 02:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ May 15 2004, 02:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There's a difference between a good aimer and a person who just changes his sensitivity to adjust to him.
Aim in itself, is the muscle knowledge that is used in hand eye coordination. It's a very tough to skill to master. People who have good aim in RL sports are usually good aimers in games or anything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> True. I should have worded it better. But trying new sensitivity doesnt hurt.
TekdudeJoin Date: 2003-04-13Member: 15455Members, Constellation, Forum staff
Yeah, but what to the top clans feel about beating on lower clans? The top clans obviously aren't learning anything from it... I feel bad when we get beat because all we did was waste someone else's time.
hmmm tbh. i dont belive that one single bit....im part of a new clan, R-evo we clock up scores of around 20+-50+ in CO (yuckie) not one clan member hasnt played since at least 1.04 and our games of NS even when we are spawn camped by a team aleins with every Rt on the map can last around an hour at least. yet even so we cant beat a large number of "delta clans" for one simple reason.
they cheat.
most of the people who post after me are gona slander this but in all fact its true. ive watched a team of "delta clanner" walk though our team like we where nothing more then butter when the round has just started. 3 shots kills from an lmg. they arent even bothering to aim because they simple do that much damage. and your telling me that by playing a bunch of cheaters the newest brand of clans LEARN some thing? what, to cheat as well? i may be part of a new clan but ive been playing NS For a long long time. i know the differance between a HMG with lvl 3 damage to a lmg with lvl 0 damage.
ive watched other "delta clans" with pistals that shot 3 bullets in one shot from the pistal. ive watched aleins who dont even bhop because they can run down a hall faster then a clarity leaping skulk. and you HONESTLY think omegas learn from that?
i know it may seem like im one clanner whos just had some bad games VS a bunch of older clans. but even so, a game which lasts 20 seconds. where u dont even spawn twice....it teachs a bunch of newbies clanners only one thing.
however. i might be against the whole newbies VS vet idea. but i am agreeing with on thing. stick with it. every one was a n00b at some point, and with practice you get better, u just gotta ignore the yerks and keep going...
hf. gl and enjoy the best game halflife has to offer. NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Dahsy+May 15 2004, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dahsy @ May 15 2004, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->they cheat.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please disregard any and all posts from noobs who are sad they suck and are only disruptive to good ns players and the competitive ns community in general because they cannot find it within themselves (and their egos) to accept that people exist who can actually play better than they can. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Dahsy+May 15 2004, 02:48 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dahsy @ May 15 2004, 02:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hmmm tbh. i dont belive that one single bit....im part of a new clan, R-evo we clock up scores of around 20+-50+ in CO (yuckie) not one clan member hasnt played since at least 1.04 and our games of NS even when we are spawn camped by a team aleins with every Rt on the map can last around an hour at least. yet even so we cant beat a large number of "delta clans" for one simple reason.
they cheat.
most of the people who post after me are gona slander this but in all fact its true. ive watched a team of "delta clanner" walk though our team like we where nothing more then butter when the round has just started. 3 shots kills from an lmg. they arent even bothering to aim because they simple do that much damage. and your telling me that by playing a bunch of cheaters the newest brand of clans LEARN some thing? what, to cheat as well? i may be part of a new clan but ive been playing NS For a long long time. i know the differance between a HMG with lvl 3 damage to a lmg with lvl 0 damage.
ive watched other "delta clans" with pistals that shot 3 bullets in one shot from the pistal. ive watched aleins who dont even bhop because they can run down a hall faster then a clarity leaping skulk. and you HONESTLY think omegas learn from that?
i know it may seem like im one clanner whos just had some bad games VS a bunch of older clans. but even so, a game which lasts 20 seconds. where u dont even spawn twice....it teachs a bunch of newbies clanners only one thing.
however. i might be against the whole newbies VS vet idea. but i am agreeing with on thing. stick with it. every one was a n00b at some point, and with practice you get better, u just gotta ignore the yerks and keep going...
hf. gl and enjoy the best game halflife has to offer. NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol
Hey, if he wants to accuse people of hax hax lol, he can feel free. All he needs to do is come up with the demos with the proof. Come on man, let's see your evidence that they're regularly shooting skulks that haven't made any noise to give away their position, let's see the demos with snaps to target.
ps: getting a high score in combat is well nigh meaningless. If you're sporting a 4:1 or 5:1 ratio on a server filled with good players, then ok, that's indicative of skill. Just slaughtering random nubs means nothing, though. I've gone 40:0 on random pubs when the servers I like to play on are empty, and I could name a good 20 people that are heads and shoulders above me off the top of my head.
Accusations of hax without 1st-person demos are the mark of scrubs of the highest calibre.
Comments
But if you have a team and have scrimmed a bit have formulated some strats that work then you should be looking to scrim the good teams. Even scrimming marginally better teams will make you better though. People who are giving the opposite advice should ring for a new clan and watch how demoralized they get when they get stomped, its not pretty.
why the split? :x <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe because euros founded quakenet and americans founded gamesurge?
Just pm one of the members, not all of us bite
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
well... yeah
Just pm one of the members, not all of us bite
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol nobody has ever EVER asked eR any question about a scrim to my knowledge. Then again wth do we know... we just pray to cows and they light our path.
You will learn very little if anything by beating clans which aren't as skilled as yourselves. Camping their hive & then taking it out with a 21 siege salute might seem like fun but you'll be damning yourselves to mediocrity.
You play a clan who are more skilled than yourselves & I guarantee unless you're amazingly stupid or just plain ignorant you'll pick up some of thier tips, tricks, tactics etc. You may get whipped 4 - 0 but after a few games those 4 - 0s will be harder fought for the more skilled team. Then they'll turn into 3 - 1's and before you know it you're getting 2 - 2 draws vs teams you thought were the best thing since sliced HAM.
For a perfect example see <a href='http://www.clanbase.com/news_league.php?nid=121204&mid=32162&lid=1322' target='_blank'>http://www.clanbase.com/news_league.php?ni...=32162&lid=1322</a> I'm sure you all know of BM. Some of you might know of VETS. Watch the demos of that match (was in 3.0 beta 3) and you'll probably agree VETS could've taken it 3 - 1.
So play the higher skilled clans. Even they need to test out new map strategies or even just get some scrim time in to keep their team sharp & together. It'll help you more than it'll hurt (I hope).
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway yes, the reasoning here is pretty common sense-ish. You don't get a workout unless you're facing resistance. Sure, you might totally strain your muscles if you try to bench 300 one day, but the concept is the same.
Certainly, you don't get anywhere by taking the path of least resistance.
I hope all you new clanners have fun in NS and play your hardest. NS needs all the glory it can get. Make friends, and your chemistry for teamwork will go up up up.
well honestly I've been on both sides too and I think that if a clan IS that fragile then trying to nurture it by playing crappy clans is one of the worst things you can do. as I think roq said, you're just building false confidence, your clan will beat down on nubbies and then you'll try to play a delta clan and be back at square 1 because "we could've beaten them"
Oh yeah totally. Don't play <i>crappy</i> clans, play clans that are close to your level, if you're in the situation where getting your **** kicked too much will just make people quit. So cal-o clans can be playing Animosity and inc instead of eR and dn, and I doubt that will do them any harm.
Dont feel that way. My clan had the same problem but we kept with it and made it to playoffs. Learn from mistakes. Practice as a team. If your team aim sucks practice using a new mouse or new sensitivity.
Aim in itself, is the muscle knowledge that is used in hand eye coordination. It's a very tough to skill to master. People who have good aim in RL sports are usually good aimers in games or anything.
yes
Aim in itself, is the muscle knowledge that is used in hand eye coordination. It's a very tough to skill to master. People who have good aim in RL sports are usually good aimers in games or anything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
True. I should have worded it better. But trying new sensitivity doesnt hurt.
they cheat.
most of the people who post after me are gona slander this but in all fact its true. ive watched a team of "delta clanner" walk though our team like we where nothing more then butter when the round has just started. 3 shots kills from an lmg. they arent even bothering to aim because they simple do that much damage. and your telling me that by playing a bunch of cheaters the newest brand of clans LEARN some thing? what, to cheat as well? i may be part of a new clan but ive been playing NS For a long long time. i know the differance between a HMG with lvl 3 damage to a lmg with lvl 0 damage.
ive watched other "delta clans" with pistals that shot 3 bullets in one shot from the pistal. ive watched aleins who dont even bhop because they can run down a hall faster then a clarity leaping skulk. and you HONESTLY think omegas learn from that?
i know it may seem like im one clanner whos just had some bad games VS a bunch of older clans. but even so, a game which lasts 20 seconds. where u dont even spawn twice....it teachs a bunch of newbies clanners only one thing.
however. i might be against the whole newbies VS vet idea. but i am agreeing with on thing. stick with it. every one was a n00b at some point, and with practice you get better, u just gotta ignore the yerks and keep going...
hf. gl and enjoy the best game halflife has to offer. NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please disregard any and all posts from noobs who are sad they suck and are only disruptive to good ns players and the competitive ns community in general because they cannot find it within themselves (and their egos) to accept that people exist who can actually play better than they can. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
they cheat.
most of the people who post after me are gona slander this but in all fact its true. ive watched a team of "delta clanner" walk though our team like we where nothing more then butter when the round has just started. 3 shots kills from an lmg. they arent even bothering to aim because they simple do that much damage. and your telling me that by playing a bunch of cheaters the newest brand of clans LEARN some thing? what, to cheat as well? i may be part of a new clan but ive been playing NS For a long long time. i know the differance between a HMG with lvl 3 damage to a lmg with lvl 0 damage.
ive watched other "delta clans" with pistals that shot 3 bullets in one shot from the pistal. ive watched aleins who dont even bhop because they can run down a hall faster then a clarity leaping skulk. and you HONESTLY think omegas learn from that?
i know it may seem like im one clanner whos just had some bad games VS a bunch of older clans. but even so, a game which lasts 20 seconds. where u dont even spawn twice....it teachs a bunch of newbies clanners only one thing.
however. i might be against the whole newbies VS vet idea. but i am agreeing with on thing. stick with it. every one was a n00b at some point, and with practice you get better, u just gotta ignore the yerks and keep going...
hf. gl and enjoy the best game halflife has to offer. NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
OMGZ he figuarde otu R s3kratz!!!11one one one
ps: getting a high score in combat is well nigh meaningless. If you're sporting a 4:1 or 5:1 ratio on a server filled with good players, then ok, that's indicative of skill. Just slaughtering random nubs means nothing, though. I've gone 40:0 on random pubs when the servers I like to play on are empty, and I could name a good 20 people that are heads and shoulders above me off the top of my head.
Accusations of hax without 1st-person demos are the mark of scrubs of the highest calibre.