A Discussion About Onos

ktimekiller · May 2004

ok i will start a discussion on onos talk about onos all u want, i will start.....

onos is so **** weak, a full clip of hmg can kill an onos! how retarded! i think onos should be a tank! not a weakling! u go into a base with 3 marines lets say, and 2 are sg and 1 is hmg, 30 secs later.. u kill 2 marines and u are dead, lets think, if this was on ns, it would take 75 res, but killing 2 marines, it took only like 30 res away! and for aliens, its UR PERSONAL RES! and u just lost 75 for killing what? 2 marines? and they cost like what? 30 res to get a sg and a hmg! i think onos needs to have lower life with **** load of defence around 3k and with lots of absorbing power with defence, i think about 75% of dmg goes to armor, and for life, 500 is fine 3k defence will take care of it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> what do u guys think on onos? too weak? too strong? think onos is fair? u decide =]

Church · May 2004

Well, so far you've presented with the problem, and a possible solution, but you have (as many others have) failed to present analysis on the full spectrum of effects your suggestion would bring. You need to be able to explain to us exactly WHY your idea will work, and why it is good for NS. You must be able to defend it against arguments like "Won't this make Onos overpowered" and "Isn't it the onos' fault for charging into a room with 3 marines with heavy weaponry anyways?" and "If one onos should be able to take on 3 or more marines, then 2 onos will take on the entire marine team with no problem, and aliens will always win!" etc with good, clear reasoning.

Right now you sound like a whiner instead of a someone with a LEGITIMATE concern and something intelligent to say.

EvenFlow · May 2004

I wouldn't know, I never go Onos, I'm the guy spraying umbra all over the place for other onos and they never seem to have a problem.

Norml_E_High · May 2004

OMG... so tired of the onos is weak threads... The onos is not weak. Onos should NOT be an alien that can run in and kill 8 marines on one sweep. First of all HMGS are onos killing weapon. It takes a clip of HMG when they are level 3 weapons. Just because you are an onos doesn't mean you can run around and never die. Play smart and you WONT die. Ugh, don't come posting to change the onos because you can't kill marines with it.

slipknotkthx · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Norml E. High @ May 7 2004, 01:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Play smart and you WONT die.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
perfectly said.

rknZ · May 2004

A stupid onos is a dead onos.

Not nearly as bad as a stupid fade tho <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Bios · May 2004

The onos is a tank, but every tank can be destroyed.

ktimekiller · May 2004

ya but a tank doesnt get destroyed by 3 marines in like 30 secs, and on the discription of onos it says that onos is the most powerful alien and they are able to take out a squad of marines! but in game play, that is not true, i think the dmg is fine but i wish the tanking think was more improved, instead! y not make onos weak dmg and make him a life monsta! like 20 for gore and little dmg for everything and he will be a life monsta so he can take shots of around 3-5 hmg marines? that would be kool

EDIT:umbrela is weaker, which means onos will get less cover now, umbrela was weak already, they made it even weaker

The_Redeemer · May 2004

Can't a (real)Tank be destroyed by one sneaky person and a well placed charge?

Angel-Wing · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>umbrela is weaker, which means onos will get less cover now, umbrela was weak already, they made it even weaker </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /> umbrela when did flayra add that?
ive heard of UMBRA but umbrela i think that stops rain not bullets

truthfully the onos right now is perfect. the damn thing is a tank ok. onos arent supposed to be gods. they shouldnt be able to kill 3-4 marines paking heavy weapons. onos are supposed to be used in colaberation with the rest of the alien team like maybe a gorge and a lerk. then maybe if that onos is smart enough can kill those 4 rines. but still onos can take out 3 marins np if ur smart about it. dont always have to charge in and think ur gonna win be safe take out 1 then go heal then take out the other 2. i love my moocows the way they are but then again they could be nerfed a small bit and still be godly. Onos in packs are game enders not a lone onos like most people like or want to believe.

Pa1adin · May 2004

In your example it did not mention teamwork, the same situation on 2 sg and an hmg is easy to break with the current onos.
The solution is bringing 2 skulks along. The onos runs in and out killing no one (kill if you ca but don’t go nuts trying). During this run the skulks attack the sg's and hmg as the are distracted with the onos.

That’s it that will break small groups of heavily armed marines.

Now if the was tough enough to do that by himself then no defences will have hope of stopping any group of aliens containing an onos

thedraft · May 2004

The onos is not perfect. It'd be perfect if they fixed charge. Otherwise, it's pretty damn good. I echo what's already been said: the Onos <i>SHOULDN'T</i> be able to just run around marines absorbing hundreds of bullets. All the aliens have certain roles to fill. The onos has two: sieging bases and swallowing HAs. It does both awesomely. Don't think of the onos as a tank, think of him as a catapault. Awesome at raining down destruction, not so good at defending itself.

Jared101 · May 2004

one thing the onos can do,is take on a group of 2-3 rines walking in hallways with ease,but not when your in MS,they are on platforms,with makes you have to jumpduck for about 7 seconds before you get to them,onos is fine,althought i wouldnt mind seeing it cost 100+ res,and then make a armour class that only gets to use his super fists to take down the onos

ULTRA-MAN! USE ROCKET PUNCH!

CAW !! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /> "not timmy!"
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' />
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' />

Buggy · May 2004

You shan't win if the marines have Heavy Armors, should you lack an onos.

Its the best hive defender aliens have, since you can stomp marines away from your hives, and do massive damage against sieges, TFs, PGs.......

Its not supposed to be an UberMegaUltraKillingMachineOfDoom ...

rknZ · May 2004

I would like devour and stomp to be switched around.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' />

Roger_Dodger · May 2004

Fix or replace charge. And onos will be perfect, maybe a little more base speed would be nice.

If your onos can take 3 rines with big weaps imagine how badly you'd cane if you had another onos, or a lerk and gorge with you, or two cover skulks, or a fade to cover??

Dude either play smart by yourself with an onos or get some help from your TEAMmates. Stomp is good enough to hold the rines down till you get some help. Learn to run and judge even fights or fights you have a far larger advantage. Taking on the unknown is what gets an onos killed.

- RD

NGE · May 2004

Um, if anything can take 30 seconds in NS to kill then it's not weak...

But besides the fact that 30 seconds is an eternity and not at all how long an onos will last sitting there getting hit by SG's/HMG's, the onos is definatly a tank right now- and tanks need this little thing I like to call, "support."

niftyguy · May 2004

Onos takes 95 HMG shots to kill, 12 shotgun blasts, or 190 lmg shots...
WTH? thats pretty damn strong considering regeneration and how often do you get to fire off that much? if your saying, all day because you rush 3 marines that have their shotties/hmgs trained on the door, learn effective methods of onosing.

onos is a tank
don't be stupid with it
when you die, you did something dumb / you got com chair blocked / jets+hmgs

Daxx · May 2004

Damn that teamwork hax. Damn the developers for requiring it! DAMN THEM TO HECK!

All stupidity aside, most of the salent points have been made. A poorly played onos is a dead onos. And a fairly signifigant waste of resources.

But lets activate the teamwork hax. Add a Lerk with Umbra. With the new changes, your life expectancy just doubled. Now add a Fade blinking like a mad idiot around that group of marines, occasionally landing a swipe or two. I'd say your life expectancy just went up another 2 to 3 times. And if the rest of your team isn't made up of slobbering idiots, there should be a few skulks running around as well, if not more higher lifeforms.

Don't have the teamwork hax installed? Well, I suggest you get it, otherwise just play smart. Don't run into the middle of 8 marines. Even if they are all lights with LMG's, thats more than enough firepower to anilate you. Personal preference of upgrades (Classic) is Regeneration/Clerity/Scent of Fear. Regen for obvious reasons, Clerity for the mobility and Scent of Fear tells me how many marines are where, allowing me to judge situations without having to get into them first.

geekanarchy · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It takes a clip of HMG when they are level 3 weapons.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Wrong. A two hive onos takes 110 level 0 HMG bullets to die. Add regen and you will have to expend your HMG clip, or carapace and you will have to finish it off with your pistol. Still, a single marine with level 0 weapons take can take down an onos with DC ugrades. Of course any semi-intelligent marine always has buddies with him, so it makes it all the more easier. Then pump it up to level 3 weaps and onos are soft cheese to the marines.

Cyndane · May 2004

I don't normally reply to these posts.. but since it is about my favorite class of alien.

I say just decrease the stomp range but bump up the delay time to the 1.5 or 2 seconds that it was. Other then that as far as I can find... the onos is fine. Although charge does need something to assist it along I really don't see it being used much at all at the moment.

Rapier7 · May 2004

Let's look at the reasoning.

Are you saying that one class of alien should be able to take on 4+ marines in one go BY ITSELF?

Your teammates are there for a reason, you idiot. When you make one class so incredibly powerful but keep the others the same, that means you have just one overpowered class PLUS your usual retinue of skulks, fades, gorges and lerk. Even if you up the cost or do something else to compensate, you still leave an incredibly powerful unit for ONE player slot.

I'm going to use Starcraft as an example here.

Let's say you have a battlecruiser. Sure, alone, it sucks against say... a group of dragoons. But wait! Let's make it more powerful and let's also make sure it takes 2 supply to create, we'll just bump up the cost to compensate.

One battlecruiser will ALWAYS kill one Dragoon.

Sure, they appear later in the game, but you will still kill that Dragoon. When you have enough res, you can just hoard a bunch of battlecruisers, and since Dragoons and Battlecruisers are the same supply, you have an equal number of Dragoons and Battlecruisers duking it out. Let's assume you have 2 battle cruisers, and 2 wraiths, and 2 goliaths. Those goliaths and wraiths were the same before, they do their job as effectively before and after the battlecruisers got the buff. So basically, you overpower the battlecruiser, because the battlecruiser can take ANY SINGLE UNIT by itself, allowing it to take MORE UNITS is just stupid.

See the problem here? (Note, I personally dislike Starcraft, as it pales in comparison to TA, and it gets more fame, but since more people are familiar with it, I'll use it as an example)

Petco · May 2004

They can't make any hp or armor go over 999 (But can make armor abosrb like any amount of damage 1-100). Onoses in 1.04 were very very feared (Why feared? Because one can take out 3-5 marines average and 50%-75% of the alien team would have been onoses since 3rd hive = 100 res.) but now in 3.0 onoses are just another victim like a gorge...

Beer_Goggles · May 2004

I think a distinction should be draw. Fade should kill marines, onos should kill buildings and heavy armor.

A fade, as of right now, excels at killing units. Too much, in the case of combat, but almost perfectly balanced in classic. An onos is really nothing to be feared, in classic. In combat, you really can't win against three onos solely attacking the cc. I suggest bumping onos up to 100 res, +3 in combat, and making it ideal for taking out buildings, almost exclusively. Increase it's gore attack but make the gore hitbox much smaller, suitable for taking out stationary targets but not moving, hopping marines.

Right now, onos run into a base/marine spawn/a defended area, stomp, eat someone, and run away. What do fades do? The same thing. In my view, fades should be fragile, anti-personnel weapons, and onos should be lumbering (save for charge) siege artillery. You should hear them from a mile away, giving you time to prepare for the inevitable. But if an onos is cornered by 4 marines with level 3 weapons, it isn't living much longer.

And, there's always raising the res cap to accommodate a higher res onos, but that will never happen. Marines can have unlimited res, why not aliens?

Nuub · May 2004

I dont think the onos too weak or neither too strong. But in 2.0 it was sure hard to kill, and the 3s stomp, gah, i need air. LMGs did nothing to 2.0 onos but they are useful now in a group of 3-5. And if the onos takes 1 clip of HMG ammo to die, just get lerk to umbra and you wont die. After he used his clip, charge in and devour. And onos is NOT made for killing everything or anything.

BattleTech · May 2004

There's no such thing as a "Smart Onos" because a "Smart Onos" is usually one who runs away when they're about to die or just simply avoid's groups of marine's or trie's to believe that stomping a group of HA's alway's works if they have alien's around to help will actually work by himself. Onos is just a giant meat shield that says to marines, shoot me or spread out. Most of the time the only kill's an Onos will get in classic is from lone LA's or devouring marine's constantly and hiding.

Diablo_fx · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ May 7 2004, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Um, if anything can take 30 seconds in NS to kill then it's not weak...
 </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
RTs? Hives? CCs? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

rknZ · May 2004

Switch Stomp and Devour.

It will give a 1 hive onos some meaning, he can stomp while his team mates bite.

While you there make skulks 50hp 30ap so they get better with more hives.

Zek · May 2004

Frankly I think we should get rid of Stomp and rebalance Onoses so they actually are a tank(probably well beyond the scope of 3.0 at this point). Significantly higher HP won't work as long as Onoses have Stomp, that much goes without saying. Having to be careful as an Onos is fine, but right now an Onos is terrified of a couple of shotties that are intelligently placed so he can't stomp them all at once. I'm not going to say that Onoses are underpowered, but conceptually I take issue with the fact that they get their **** kicked if they have to cover more than 30 feet of distance to the marines, and have to get by with stomp/devouring from around a corner and running away.

fyremp3 · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rknZ @ May 8 2004, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Switch Stomp and Devour.

It will give a 1 hive onos some meaning, he can stomp while his team mates bite.

While you there make skulks 50hp 30ap so they get better with more hives.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
This is the REASON for NOT having stomp as 2 instead of 3, If you're an onos as 1 hive, THERES A REASON you should die, Stomp is great for defense and offense, provided you have the teammates around you to get with the eating.

With 1 hive as aliens you shouldnt be able to win, but with stomp as 1 hive, people will **** onos and stomp **** rine base at 7 minutes into game and win.

Think about what you say instead of blurting out retarded ideas. 1 hive onos should have no meaning. - Skulks with 50 hp and 30 ap is absurd, they'd have 50 hp and 60 ap with carapace. 70 hp and 30 ap is fine by me. It gets the job done as well - a lifeform that costs no res shouldnt last long. And more armor will make it last too long. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' />

Bleu-TheOne · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WoT|Lanfear @ May 7 2004, 08:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I don't normally reply to these posts.. but since it is about my favorite class of alien.

I say just decrease the stomp range but bump up the delay time to the 1.5 or 2 seconds that it was. Other then that as far as I can find... the onos is fine. Although charge does need something to assist it along I really don't see it being used much at all at the moment.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Good, but stomp need to have the possiblity to stomp a jumpack marine in the air, or in a second floor, just imagine a marine flying around with a HMG, stomp him in the middle air, marine go down on the floor, eat him and have good meat for the diner! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

A Discussion About Onos

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