<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+May 6 2004, 02:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ May 6 2004, 02:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Shotgun is in no way countered by anything. Larger lifeforms? You have a greater chance of hitting larger lifeforms with a shotgun spread, meaning you do more damage, meaning it's still instakill, or nearly so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong, sg is countered by lots of things, to name a few: Carapace(you can dodge right? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), Umbra, Blink runs etc etc.
Insta kill weapons have been in fps's for as long as I can remember and there have always been ways of countering them.
True, they can put you at a disadvantage but just get an instakill weapon yourself and sort it out! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That's a pretty typical argument. Yes, cara is a viable option for skulk only, maybe lerk too, but all other classes depend of regen. Think about it; why waste 2 res just so you could -maybe, with luck- outlive half a shot -direct sg shot is ALWAYS insta-gib for anything less than fade or onos. Umbra is a nice counter too, but that requires two hives and lerk ready to support (not very common on pubs). Dodging doesn't help much when the marines are farming the area just next to the hive and are rushing through the pg like mad.
Countering insta-kill weapon with another. Oh, joy; AWP matches. Fun, fun, isn't it? Lurking around corners, until you miss that one box and BANG; game over. If people wanted to play a game like that, they would play Rainbow Six or SWAT.
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+May 6 2004, 07:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ May 6 2004, 07:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Shotgun is in no way countered by anything. Larger lifeforms? You have a greater chance of hitting larger lifeforms with a shotgun spread, meaning you do more damage, meaning it's still instakill, or nearly so. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
4 shots to kill a fade != insta kill. That is a fade without carapace, vs lvl1-2 weapon upped shottys. The shotgun must hit 4 times FULL on with no pellets missing. You are telling me this is insta kill?
<!--QuoteBegin-EEK+May 6 2004, 02:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ May 6 2004, 02:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Shotgun is in no way countered by anything. Larger lifeforms? You have a greater chance of hitting larger lifeforms with a shotgun spread, meaning you do more damage, meaning it's still instakill, or nearly so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> shotguns are countered by many things. the most apparent one is how easliy marines die. you forget, marines need to act in groups to be good. they are designed to dish out large amounts of fire power, but be able to take little damage themself.
if you cant take on a lvl 3 shootie 1 on 1. then dont. either wait till he comes to you, and thus take away the marines range advantage, or simply wait till you have back up
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4 shots to kill a fade != insta kill. That is a fade without carapace, vs lvl1-2 weapon upped shottys. The shotgun must hit 4 times FULL on with no pellets missing. You are telling me this is insta kill? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I have seen it done with just bare, one shot. One shot hitting full and square to the back of stuck fade. (He blinked against he wall of holoroom, next second he was dead). Dunno, I can't believe that during those three seconds he could had taken over 450 points of damage... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Tails+May 6 2004, 08:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tails @ May 6 2004, 08:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4 shots to kill a fade != insta kill. That is a fade without carapace, vs lvl1-2 weapon upped shottys. The shotgun must hit 4 times FULL on with no pellets missing. You are telling me this is insta kill? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I have seen it done with just bare, one shot. One shot hitting full and square to the back of stuck fade. (He blinked against he wall of holoroom, next second he was dead). Dunno, I can't believe that during those three seconds he could had taken over 450 points of damage... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He obviously wasn't at full health. Back in 2.01, it took a minimum of 2 shots even with level 3 weapons to kill a fade with a shotgun.
Yeah, maybe; but saw him coming from the DTD hive, thanks to motion. Have you seen a fade that wasn't at full health after healing at a hive? Might had been the turrets, though (all 4 of them <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> ).
the only problem i see is that to counter focus, the rines have to get armor 1 ONCE, and they spawn with it, Aliens have to get it everytime they spawn... hence alien spawncamping problems...
<!--QuoteBegin-Ulatoh+May 6 2004, 11:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ulatoh @ May 6 2004, 11:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the only problem i see is that to counter focus, the rines have to get armor 1 ONCE, and they spawn with it, Aliens have to get it everytime they spawn... hence alien spawncamping problems... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you're way off topic. The "armor 1" issue is about Combat, bud. I'm thinking the Mods should kill this and let only consties or beta people discuss this, we're obviously not handling this well.
Counter to marines having armor 1? Kill their arms lab. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Focus ownz until marines get armour lvl 1, then it actually takes longer time to kill one than with normal bite. So, with one welder and 5 lvl 1 armour marines, you are practiacally nullifying focus. Focus needs a boost in lategame IMO.
Mines must be instakill, otherwise they loose their use. Devour has a charm to it, even though its usually fairly boring if your a marine.
Shotguns on the other hand are way too good compared to its cost. Its hard to miss at close range, and it does insane damage.
Lerks, gorges and skulks gets owned fast with this, even though the fade nowadays can handle it. IMO the aliens lack the ranged attacks to counter this, all they have are spores and parasites. I havnt playerd 3.0 very much but it seems that the fade needs so much health to survive the Shotgun that it is too strong in other fields.
The thing is that sneaking and ambushing is not effective enough or fast enough for the aliens to use it properly, and when marines dominate in open fighting...it gets uneven.
Sieges are another little peewee of mine...thier splash damage is too great, and kills everything if your lucky(or unlucky)
Yes – focus is lame Skill – No not really, but if you want a quick kill go for it Helpful – Yes it is helpful, 2 focus fades 1 swoop in hit the guy, gee no armor, another fade comes in blink swipe, dead. Annoying – Ayep
Not much point to complain its 2 points not and in reg game theirs more space, but get ur comm. To get u lvl 1 armor shotty n welder.
focus is good. but it has its weaknesses. if you miss, you have to wait a bit before you can bite again. if the marine has armor 1. you need to land 2 perfect hits. most people can do this easily, but when you get a marine of equal skill that knows how to jump around, it becomes harder.
also focus = 2 pts in combat now. that means a marine can get armor 2 for the same price.
Cost 2 levels to get focus now and 1 lvl to get armour. I thought it was balanced in last beta as it cost a lvl each to get outa the insta kill. I think that HMG should cost 2 lvl now - mkae more ppl use shotgun.
uhm... nope... you forgot one factor in your formular... the longest and most important factor that makes lot of fun factor 3 would eliminate your previous mentioned 2 factors with one whipe, and its lot of fun.
"to be a sneaky hiding **** that dont get killed by one shot because hes to clever, and attacks marines from behind,above,below instead running brainless around in front of him like a doom sprite"
Good work Nemesis for keeping the disscussion civil. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
Wrong, sg is countered by lots of things, to name a few: Carapace(you can dodge right? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), Umbra, Blink runs etc etc.
Insta kill weapons have been in fps's for as long as I can remember and there have always been ways of countering them.
True, they can put you at a disadvantage but just get an instakill weapon yourself and sort it out! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-Evig
btw, I got kicked from one of the servers I've seen you play on for spore spamming. *sigh*.
That's a pretty typical argument. Yes, cara is a viable option for skulk only, maybe lerk too, but all other classes depend of regen. Think about it; why waste 2 res just so you could -maybe, with luck- outlive half a shot -direct sg shot is ALWAYS insta-gib for anything less than fade or onos. Umbra is a nice counter too, but that requires two hives and lerk ready to support (not very common on pubs). Dodging doesn't help much when the marines are farming the area just next to the hive and are rushing through the pg like mad.
Countering insta-kill weapon with another. Oh, joy; AWP matches. Fun, fun, isn't it? Lurking around corners, until you miss that one box and BANG; game over. If people wanted to play a game like that, they would play Rainbow Six or SWAT.
4 shots to kill a fade != insta kill.
That is a fade without carapace, vs lvl1-2 weapon upped shottys. The shotgun must hit 4 times FULL on with no pellets missing. You are telling me this is insta kill?
shotguns are countered by many things. the most apparent one is how easliy marines die. you forget, marines need to act in groups to be good. they are designed to dish out large amounts of fire power, but be able to take little damage themself.
if you cant take on a lvl 3 shootie 1 on 1. then dont. either wait till he comes to you, and thus take away the marines range advantage, or simply wait till you have back up
That is a fade without carapace, vs lvl1-2 weapon upped shottys. The shotgun must hit 4 times FULL on with no pellets missing. You are telling me this is insta kill? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I have seen it done with just bare, one shot. One shot hitting full and square to the back of stuck fade. (He blinked against he wall of holoroom, next second he was dead). Dunno, I can't believe that during those three seconds he could had taken over 450 points of damage... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That is a fade without carapace, vs lvl1-2 weapon upped shottys. The shotgun must hit 4 times FULL on with no pellets missing. You are telling me this is insta kill? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I have seen it done with just bare, one shot. One shot hitting full and square to the back of stuck fade. (He blinked against he wall of holoroom, next second he was dead). Dunno, I can't believe that during those three seconds he could had taken over 450 points of damage... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He obviously wasn't at full health. Back in 2.01, it took a minimum of 2 shots even with level 3 weapons to kill a fade with a shotgun.
you're way off topic. The "armor 1" issue is about Combat, bud. I'm thinking the Mods should kill this and let only consties or beta people discuss this, we're obviously not handling this well.
Counter to marines having armor 1? Kill their arms lab. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So, with one welder and 5 lvl 1 armour marines, you are practiacally nullifying focus. Focus needs a boost in lategame IMO.
Mines must be instakill, otherwise they loose their use. Devour has a charm to it, even though its usually fairly boring if your a marine.
Shotguns on the other hand are way too good compared to its cost.
Its hard to miss at close range, and it does insane damage.
Lerks, gorges and skulks gets owned fast with this, even though the fade nowadays can handle it.
IMO the aliens lack the ranged attacks to counter this, all they have are spores and parasites.
I havnt playerd 3.0 very much but it seems that the fade needs so much health to survive the Shotgun that it is too strong in other fields.
The thing is that sneaking and ambushing is not effective enough or fast enough for the aliens to use it properly, and when marines dominate in open fighting...it gets uneven.
Sieges are another little peewee of mine...thier splash damage is too great, and kills everything if your lucky(or unlucky)
Skill – No not really, but if you want a quick kill go for it
Helpful – Yes it is helpful, 2 focus fades 1 swoop in hit the guy, gee no armor, another fade comes in blink swipe, dead.
Annoying – Ayep
Not much point to complain its 2 points not and in reg game theirs more space, but get ur comm. To get u lvl 1 armor shotty n welder.
also focus = 2 pts in combat now. that means a marine can get armor 2 for the same price.
Games are designed to be fun, right?
Getting killed in 1 hit isn't fun, right?
So add 2 and 2 together and you come to the conclusion that 1 hit kills shouldn't be in games, right?
"to be a sneaky hiding **** that dont get killed by one shot because hes to clever, and attacks marines from behind,above,below instead running brainless around in front of him like a doom sprite"