That happened to me at first two. If you start a LAN game in Steam, the first time it comes up with cheats enabled (for whatever reason). Turn it off in the second tab, and they play by the rule. Oddly enough, my whichbot only wanted to be a lerk. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-clamatius+Mar 30 2004, 12:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ Mar 30 2004, 12:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Can one with scent of fear communicate enemy locations and movements to others?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I could use this to "cheat" and effectively treat marines as parasited if a bot could see them with sense of fear, I guess. Right now they never bother taking SoF. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a good solution. At the moment the bots need all the help they can get, tactically.
Another possible "cheat" would be to temporarily "parasite" any marine or structure (phasegate etc) making noise within hearing range of a bot but not in line of sight. The pseudo-"parasite" would fade after a set time, provided the marine etc makes no more noise. This would simulate the bot "hearing" the noise, figuring out its source, and communicating that info to its teammates.
<!--QuoteBegin-clamatius+Mar 30 2004, 11:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ Mar 30 2004, 11:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1st: I've heard of this problem but only ever seen it running under WON (not Steam).
2nd: You most likely have sv_cheats on (see previous post on this). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep, i run the bots on WON.
How do I use? I'm going to try it now, but I dunno if I installed it right XD
DAMN! You guys make it so COMPlicated! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So Clamatius, will bots not respawn everytime they die in 2.01/2.0? If so im a bity edgy about installing 9.1 over the old bot for 2.0. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
Another issue to add on to skulks waiting in ambush. Let's say the skulk knows where the marine paths of travel are, and decides to wait in a room or corridor to ambush. The ambushes won't be very effective if the skulk waits in the same spot every time, because that will just lead marines to check that one spot. That means that there would have to be several spots in the room, and one would have to be randomly chosen. Of course, once all of the other stuff is figured out, then this part probably isn't that difficult to add on.
Wow reading this posts kind of makes me realise how hard making an AI for a game like this must be.
You need to think single handedly formulate ALL the best strategies that any human player uses when he plays aliens. Coding it is only half the problem!
Good work though <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
they seem to get "Stuck" in trying unworkable strategies all too often. For instance, I capped and turret farmed double, but left the hives alone. Yet those aliens that weren't just bumbling around the hive kept just throwing themselves against the turrets pointlessly. None ever thought to swtich strategies and build a hive. Some even went Onos and fade, all to no avail (hive 1 onos? Cake.)
Once they get in close, WB skulks can do tremendous damage. Four rounding a corner simultaneously at close range is brown trousers stuff.
I'll have to get the latrest version running, but the last game I played Gorges tended to end up running in circles a lot. I went in as an alien player and a Gorge decided to dance on my skulking self- it was completely fixated on jumping on me. I went Gorge and had trouble for ages with this other Gorge getting in my way, jumping around frantically when I was trying to build.
I'll agree with others that WB suffers most in its lack of strategy. I'd be happy with some cheating if it got WB strategy up to par regarding the value of hive locations, and marine traffic. WB at the point I was playing with it tended to suicide on turrets as a skulk, but I saw one Onos that ducked back around a corner every time a turret shot it. It lurked there for a minute or so, while a turret farm of epic proportions went up.
Just having WB fixate on turret farms growing near hive would be good, I was expecting to see one rushed by xenociding skulks but nothing eventuated, seige went up, all the while the WB aliens where elsewhere.
Another good thing would be if WB could "see" that an area was umbra'd and immediately attack, it would enable a human Kharaa player to enhance WB's strategic play by tagging an area for attack- an umbra'd WB skulk, just think of the mayhem it would cause.....
Speaking of which, how difficult would it be to add a few commands that a human player could use to manipulate the WB Kharaa desires? I'm thinking very much of the UT series command menus, but being able to say "Skulk rush at my location" would mean a human player could really beef up WB strategy.
What if human Kharaa got an in-game waypoint? Say, a start and a stop command, that left a pheromones-style trail which could then be followed on a command, allowing the human to trail-blaze for a rush?
I thought you would like to know that, with my Whichbot on, my server crashed after a while. I took it off and it hasn't crashed yet, so that's the conclusion that I've drawn...
I do hope the .91 works with 2.01, because I have yet to update to steam and I find the bots surprisingly intelligent for being computer driven when on aliens.
Their early packs when trying to set up a turrent farm at the double res in veil is scary. I have seen many skulks/fades/onos all rush in at once.. that was fun. :-)
WhichBot v0.92 is now available from <a href='http://whichbot.com' target='_blank'>whichbot.com</a>.
Changelog (since v0.91): <ul><li> Added blink and leap support! Thanks to Voogru for giving me a suggestion that let me get this to work, finally. </li><li> Now bundling MetamodX3 from the AMX Mod X project: <a href='http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=100470' target='_blank'>http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=100470</a> due to problems reported with the Linux Metamod version used previously. </li><li> Fixed bug that caused Onos not to be able to attack marines sometimes (e.g. on slopes) </li><li> Onos now occasionally try to devour marines. Not terribly reliable yet (not that it is for human players either, really). </li><li> Updated waypoints for Eclipse and Veil for NS 3.0 beta 4 (credit to Sandman[SA]!) </li><li> Fixed bug that caused localisation to be broken. This bug caused the bots to say things like "prefix_hivemind_say" etc. </li><li> Chamber build order is now controlled from the config file. </li><li> ns_agora wasn't working too well and the waypoints have been removed for now. </li><li> Fixed a bug where marines being digested counted as valid targets and the bots were still attacking them. </li><li> Added a tweak to the aiming system to allow bots to hit a little more. This mostly affects lerks which were having trouble. </li><li> Updated electrified range - it was too low and bots were being electrocuted even when they thought they were out of range. </li><li> Fixed a bug that meant that bots would end up as gorges in Combat a lot. </li><li> Added a tweak to the building behaviour that hopefully will encourage gorges to go out and see the world instead of cowering in the hive, running around in circles with their pudgy hands in the air. It's scary out there when marines have a lot of buildings, you know...</li></ul>
Are the WB folks, or any others, working on similar for marines (excluding Commander, of course, as that would, well, make most AI programmer's head explode)?
I too would very much be able to, for example, play a single player game with a team of alien AIs and a team of marine AIs as a Commander....
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I too would very much be able to, for example, play a single player game with a team of alien AIs and a team of marine AIs as a Commander....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can do this right now by using both RCBot and WhichBot at the same time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Are the WB folks, or any others, working on similar for marines (excluding Commander, of course, as that would, well, make most AI programmer's head explode)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am the developer of HiveMind, and i have created a simple "marine bot" that I use to test with HiveMind
I may soon release it, but only to the members of the HiveMind Forums in our "Members Only" section.
If you are interested, join up on the HiveMind forums and you will soon be able to use it!
Note: I can make it work with HiveMind or WhichBot, just tell me which one if you would like the other..
<a href='http://hivemind.zor.org' target='_blank'>Click here and select "Forums"</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-clamatius+May 27 2004, 05:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (clamatius @ May 27 2004, 05:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I too would very much be able to, for example, play a single player game with a team of alien AIs and a team of marine AIs as a Commander....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can do this right now by using both RCBot and WhichBot at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd recommend using my latest beta/debug bot (for windows metamod though only) you can download on my forums, because of many bugs found that many were complaining about <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> ...
v0.93 is now available from <a href='https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=76903' target='_blank'>here</a>.
Changes since v0.92: <ul><li> Fixed a major but dumb bug that was totally breaking combat evasion (the bots weren't dodging at all). </li><li> Added new teamsay commands "/wb lead" and "/wb resume". After a "/wb lead", the non-gorge bots will try to follow that player. They will go back to what they would normally do after a "/wb resume". This is very handy for leading packs of bots in a rush on a marine base or for testing waypoints. Just to clarify how you use these commands, you must be an alien player and you say "/wb lead" or "/wb resume" on the team say channel. If admins don't want this to be possible, they should edit the whichbot.txt config file. </li><li> Added a drastic tweak to influence settings to encourage bots to attack resource towers first and foremost and bases secondarily. Hopefully, this will cut down on bots suiciding on turret farms over and over instead of taking down RTs.</li><li> Fixed another bug that was causing bots to gorge when they shouldn't in NS:Combat. </li><li> Fixed a bug in the network message interception code that could theoretically cause a crash but has never seemed to. It's been there for a while. </li><li> Fixed a serious bug in the attack strategy that caused influence values set in the config file to be disregarded. This would also make scouting much less exciting for bots. </li><li> Added a missing translation for item_mine. </li><li> Added the possibility of Metamod error warnings to the log class. This will be an ongoing process, but the idea is to get better reports of technical problems in the server log. </li><li> Fixed a bug which could cause gorges to blacklist hive building waypoints (and then they'd never try to build that hive again, potentially causing the gorges to stop building altogether). </li><li> Fixed a bug which caused log spam when gorges were building. </li><li> Rewrote the PackManager to support more than one pack. All non-gorge bots are now in packs of 3 or so. </li><li> Reduced gorge fear level again. </li><li> Increased the amount skulks jump when dodging in combat. </li><li> Added a tweak to disable bot chat in the config file. </li><li> Bots now announce on team chat when they become the pack leader. </li><li> Added a control in the configuration file to limit the number of Onos. </li><li> Give XP to bots slightly slower when cheats are enabled (helps test lifeform evolution). </li><li> Treat ladders as taking 5x longer to traverse than a walking path would. </li><li> Tidied up evolution selection code somewhat (shouldn't have any effect on gameplay unless I broke something) </li><li> Tidied up main bot class (again, shouldn't have any effect) </li><li> Max # of bots always checked now when bots are added to prevent say commands overloading servers with bots. </li><li> Added some sanity checking to path distance calculations (was causing a rare assert on Linux servers). </li><li> Now using Sandman[SA]'s waypoints for ns_ayumi, ns_hera, ns_tanith, ns_metal and ns_bast. Thanks again to Sandman[SA]! </li><li> Lowered lerk's rate of fire for spore, umbra and primal scream and raised it for bite. This will hopefully fix some weird issues where the lerk would get really close but not bite (it was trying to spore again). </li><li> Tweaked lerk pitch handling when moving somewhat. This should help it fly up ladders and also bite jetpackers. It will hopefully also fix the bug where it appeared to land on your head but not bite you. </li><li> Added new feature to the pack manager - bots that evolve into higher lifeforms will become pack leaders if they're a higher lifeform than the current pack leader.</li></ul> Enjoy!
Whichbot setup= Easy, RCBot setup is easy, yet geting it to let u use commands. GJ on whichbot <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-murphyt4+Jul 15 2004, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (murphyt4 @ Jul 15 2004, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yet geting it to let u use commands. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ^is very hard
Comments
2nd: You most likely have sv_cheats on (see previous post on this).
Oddly enough, my whichbot only wanted to be a lerk. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I could use this to "cheat" and effectively treat marines as parasited if a bot could see them with sense of fear, I guess. Right now they never bother taking SoF. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a good solution. At the moment the bots need all the help they can get, tactically.
Another possible "cheat" would be to temporarily "parasite" any marine or structure (phasegate etc) making noise within hearing range of a bot but not in line of sight. The pseudo-"parasite" would fade after a set time, provided the marine etc makes no more noise. This would simulate the bot "hearing" the noise, figuring out its source, and communicating that info to its teammates.
I think that would work really well.
2nd: You most likely have sv_cheats on (see previous post on this). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, i run the bots on WON.
My only problem-
How do I use? I'm going to try it now, but I dunno if I installed it right XD
DAMN! You guys make it so COMPlicated! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If so im a bity edgy about installing 9.1 over the old bot for 2.0. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
You need to think single handedly formulate ALL the best strategies that any human player uses when he plays aliens.
Coding it is only half the problem!
Good work though <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
they seem to get "Stuck" in trying unworkable strategies all too often. For instance, I capped and turret farmed double, but left the hives alone. Yet those aliens that weren't just bumbling around the hive kept just throwing themselves against the turrets pointlessly. None ever thought to swtich strategies and build a hive. Some even went Onos and fade, all to no avail (hive 1 onos? Cake.)
We installed it yesterday on our Server and tested it. But... the Bots are only walking around. They doesn't attack ://
I'll have to get the latrest version running, but the last game I played Gorges tended to end up running in circles a lot. I went in as an alien player and a Gorge decided to dance on my skulking self- it was completely fixated on jumping on me. I went Gorge and had trouble for ages with this other Gorge getting in my way, jumping around frantically when I was trying to build.
I'll agree with others that WB suffers most in its lack of strategy. I'd be happy with some cheating if it got WB strategy up to par regarding the value of hive locations, and marine traffic. WB at the point I was playing with it tended to suicide on turrets as a skulk, but I saw one Onos that ducked back around a corner every time a turret shot it. It lurked there for a minute or so, while a turret farm of epic proportions went up.
Just having WB fixate on turret farms growing near hive would be good, I was expecting to see one rushed by xenociding skulks but nothing eventuated, seige went up, all the while the WB aliens where elsewhere.
Another good thing would be if WB could "see" that an area was umbra'd and immediately attack, it would enable a human Kharaa player to enhance WB's strategic play by tagging an area for attack- an umbra'd WB skulk, just think of the mayhem it would cause.....
Speaking of which, how difficult would it be to add a few commands that a human player could use to manipulate the WB Kharaa desires? I'm thinking very much of the UT series command menus, but being able to say "Skulk rush at my location" would mean a human player could really beef up WB strategy.
What if human Kharaa got an in-game waypoint? Say, a start and a stop command, that left a pheromones-style trail which could then be followed on a command, allowing the human to trail-blaze for a rush?
I do hope the .91 works with 2.01, because I have yet to update to steam and I find the bots surprisingly intelligent for being computer driven when on aliens.
Their early packs when trying to set up a turrent farm at the double res in veil is scary. I have seen many skulks/fades/onos all rush in at once.. that was fun. :-)
Nvm, it works now.
Changelog (since v0.91):
<ul><li> Added blink and leap support! Thanks to Voogru for giving me a suggestion that let me get this to work, finally.
</li><li> Now bundling MetamodX3 from the AMX Mod X project: <a href='http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=100470' target='_blank'>http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=100470</a> due to problems reported with the Linux Metamod version used previously.
</li><li> Fixed bug that caused Onos not to be able to attack marines sometimes (e.g. on slopes)
</li><li> Onos now occasionally try to devour marines. Not terribly reliable yet (not that it is for human players either, really).
</li><li> Updated waypoints for Eclipse and Veil for NS 3.0 beta 4 (credit to Sandman[SA]!)
</li><li> Fixed bug that caused localisation to be broken. This bug caused the bots to say things like "prefix_hivemind_say" etc.
</li><li> Chamber build order is now controlled from the config file.
</li><li> ns_agora wasn't working too well and the waypoints have been removed for now.
</li><li> Fixed a bug where marines being digested counted as valid targets and the bots were still attacking them.
</li><li> Added a tweak to the aiming system to allow bots to hit a little more. This mostly affects lerks which were having trouble.
</li><li> Updated electrified range - it was too low and bots were being electrocuted even when they thought they were out of range.
</li><li> Fixed a bug that meant that bots would end up as gorges in Combat a lot.
</li><li> Added a tweak to the building behaviour that hopefully will encourage gorges to go out and see the world instead of cowering in the hive, running around in circles with their pudgy hands in the air. It's scary out there when marines have a lot of buildings, you know...</li></ul>
Are the WB folks, or any others, working on similar for marines (excluding Commander, of course, as that would, well, make most AI programmer's head explode)?
I too would very much be able to, for example, play a single player game with a team of alien AIs and a team of marine AIs as a Commander....
You can do this right now by using both RCBot and WhichBot at the same time.
This is how they aim, with a controlled offset at the programmers will.
take it from a programmer!
<a href='http://hivemind.zor.org' target='_blank'>(see here)</a>
I am the developer of HiveMind, and i have created a simple "marine bot" that I use to test with HiveMind
I may soon release it, but only to the members of the HiveMind Forums in our
"Members Only" section.
If you are interested, join up on the HiveMind forums and you will soon be able to use it!
Note: I can make it work with HiveMind or WhichBot, just tell me which one if you would like the other..
<a href='http://hivemind.zor.org' target='_blank'>Click here and select "Forums"</a>
You can do this right now by using both RCBot and WhichBot at the same time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd recommend using my latest beta/debug bot (for windows metamod though only) you can download on my forums, because of many bugs found that many were complaining about <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> ...
Changes since v0.92:
<ul><li> Fixed a major but dumb bug that was totally breaking combat evasion (the bots weren't dodging at all).
</li><li> Added new teamsay commands "/wb lead" and "/wb resume". After a "/wb lead", the non-gorge bots will try to follow that player. They will go back to what they would normally do after a "/wb resume". This is very handy for leading packs of bots in a rush on a marine base or for testing waypoints. Just to clarify how you use these commands, you must be an alien player and you say "/wb lead" or "/wb resume" on the team say channel. If admins don't want this to be possible, they should edit the whichbot.txt config file.
</li><li> Added a drastic tweak to influence settings to encourage bots to attack resource towers first and foremost and bases secondarily. Hopefully, this will cut down on bots suiciding on turret farms over and over instead of taking down RTs.</li><li> Fixed another bug that was causing bots to gorge when they shouldn't in NS:Combat.
</li><li> Fixed a bug in the network message interception code that could theoretically cause a crash but has never seemed to. It's been there for a while.
</li><li> Fixed a serious bug in the attack strategy that caused influence values set in the config file to be disregarded. This would also make scouting much less exciting for bots.
</li><li> Added a missing translation for item_mine.
</li><li> Added the possibility of Metamod error warnings to the log class. This will be an ongoing process, but the idea is to get better reports of technical problems in the server log.
</li><li> Fixed a bug which could cause gorges to blacklist hive building waypoints (and then they'd never try to build that hive again, potentially causing the gorges to stop building altogether).
</li><li> Fixed a bug which caused log spam when gorges were building.
</li><li> Rewrote the PackManager to support more than one pack. All non-gorge bots are now in packs of 3 or so.
</li><li> Reduced gorge fear level again.
</li><li> Increased the amount skulks jump when dodging in combat.
</li><li> Added a tweak to disable bot chat in the config file.
</li><li> Bots now announce on team chat when they become the pack leader.
</li><li> Added a control in the configuration file to limit the number of Onos.
</li><li> Give XP to bots slightly slower when cheats are enabled (helps test lifeform evolution).
</li><li> Treat ladders as taking 5x longer to traverse than a walking path would.
</li><li> Tidied up evolution selection code somewhat (shouldn't have any effect on gameplay unless I broke something)
</li><li> Tidied up main bot class (again, shouldn't have any effect)
</li><li> Max # of bots always checked now when bots are added to prevent say commands overloading servers with bots.
</li><li> Added some sanity checking to path distance calculations (was causing a rare assert on Linux servers).
</li><li> Now using Sandman[SA]'s waypoints for ns_ayumi, ns_hera, ns_tanith, ns_metal and ns_bast. Thanks again to Sandman[SA]!
</li><li> Lowered lerk's rate of fire for spore, umbra and primal scream and raised it for bite. This will hopefully fix some weird issues where the lerk would get really close but not bite (it was trying to spore again).
</li><li> Tweaked lerk pitch handling when moving somewhat. This should help it fly up ladders and also bite jetpackers. It will hopefully also fix the bug where it appeared to land on your head but not bite you.
</li><li> Added new feature to the pack manager - bots that evolve into higher lifeforms will become pack leaders if they're a higher lifeform than the current pack leader.</li></ul>
Enjoy!
^is very hard