Focus 2 Points
Roger_Dodger
Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14392Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Opinions</div> Personally i dont mind the focus cost being raised as it has diversed alien gameplay, but i think there is a better way to approach to it.
Why not make a level cap for focus? Level 2 or 3 would be far better imho.
It just restricts skulks with focus and xeno alot especially considering a skulk loses its strength once rines have armour. Not to mention a gorge with focus and web chews up a lot of points.
See this would put focus back as one point but doesnt allow early focus ripping too much too quickly.
If not i go back to the idea of changing starting level to 0 and being able to earn 10 points in total for rines and aliens.
What do you guys think?
- RD
Why not make a level cap for focus? Level 2 or 3 would be far better imho.
It just restricts skulks with focus and xeno alot especially considering a skulk loses its strength once rines have armour. Not to mention a gorge with focus and web chews up a lot of points.
See this would put focus back as one point but doesnt allow early focus ripping too much too quickly.
If not i go back to the idea of changing starting level to 0 and being able to earn 10 points in total for rines and aliens.
What do you guys think?
- RD
Comments
Why not? Focus deserves a two-point cost more than Xenocide does.
Xeno is rubbish with the current spawn system. You die, and you respawn 1 by 1. Your lucky to even get a kill with Xeno with the current damage it does against anything with armour. Acid rocket is just gorge spit, charge is OK in classic, but ONOS don't NEED to run away so much in CO, especially not 2 points for it. Primal scream has a tiny area of affect and lasts harly any time, need adren to actually USE it, so thats 3 points...
Focus is also not worth 2 points.
A1 > focus. Focus should be 1 point, but perhaps make all upgrades start at level 1, then up to level 2 at level2, level3 at level3 etc. This would mean focus would not be a 1 hit kill until you got to level3. (when it wouldn't anyway as of armour)
Yeah, I agree, it makes little sense for all those hive3 abilities to cost 2 points, xeno has taken quite a hit with the spawn system and its heavy price, but I don't think webs are so useless, webs can be pretty nasty, we've all been webbed endlessly by a gorge, haven't we? It's not nice. But it'll be really hard to tell how much to nerf them with hive3 abilities costing 2 points. (and wouldn't you rather webs be nerfed a bit than have so many features of the game just sitting there, useless?)
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A1 > focus. Focus should be 1 point, but perhaps make all upgrades start at level 1, then up to level 2 at level2, level3 at level3 etc. This would mean focus would not be a 1 hit kill until you got to level3. (when it wouldn't anyway as of armour)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I think that would really hurt aliens early on.
Agreed.
Making it cost 2 points is ridiculous.
Personally, because there is a timer now, I believe upgrades and life forms should be available to you after a certain time has been reached. Every upgrade would cost 1 point, but they wouldnt all be available to reserach until later in game.
For example, 10 minute timer.
After 3 minutes lerk is available
After 4 minutes one can upgrade focus
After 5 minutes one can xenocide
After 7 minutes, gorges
Blah blah blah.
<b>My opinion? Damn good move! No mass-focus anymore, maybe 1 or 3 people in a 16v16 game get it!</b>
someone said once if the skulk can get past your gun, then you deserve to die. i totally agree. i had no problem with focus being 1 point i think it should return to that.
From both perspectives, alien and marine, I never had a problem with focus at 1 point. If an alien kills me in one hit because I don't have armour 1, then I just accept that.
It's balanced now, as marines can spend 2 levels in a shotgun without risking focus, and aliens don't use focus so much so strategies diversify. It also makes sense that both sides get a one-shot-kill weapon at the same cost.
But I think its very odd to have 9 upgrades wich everyone costs 1 lvl except for 1 that costs 2. It's just not neat. But it wouln't be neat to have 1 of the 9 upgrades to have a lvl cap.
As for 3rd hive abilitys, web and xenocide were indeed too powerful at lvl 3, aliens would xeno 1 for 1 and get xp for gorge, then web everything, or keep xenociding 1 for 1 until they got advanced lifeforms. But at the same time, I think Primal Scream was accurately costed at 1 lvl, and acid rocket and charge weren't even worth the 1 lvl, so now they suck at 2 lvls (I think acid rocket and charge should be buffed with more damage for they also suck in classic).
I can't think of a better way of balancing those issues now, but lvl cap is not the answer imo.
From both perspectives, alien and marine, I never had a problem with focus at 1 point. If an alien kills me in one hit because I don't have armour 1, then I just accept that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah but the problem is that 7/10 you die to the next skulk that comes along without even getting into the hive <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There are exceptions of course(mine spam, welder **** etc.)
"I laugh cause now some marines don't always get armor one at start instead they push for shotties...so you get focus and you still rock them "
Also, I feel that, that is exactly the point of focus. It is now a viable choice to add that extra punch, instead of it being the first choice for 95% of all alien players as it used to be. Now it can seriously surprise your enemy..
a favorite saying I used to hear alot: all focus no skill.
the alien players just need to rethink the way they play, they can no longer mindlessly throw(or bhop) themselves into the marine team. Also, if most of the team is dead they should consider carefully what they do next as even a single death at the wrong moment could mean the difference between winning and losing.
I love the new CO and I think that making focus cost 2 is the single best change it has had since its release.
-Evig
Charge could be made super powerful once more as an onos in combat could only have one non-hive upgrade if it wanted charge. Also you'd really have to chose between focus and acid rocket as a fade so you don't hurt your regular abilities too much.
Xeno's not too bad currently (could do with blast damage if it doesn't have it), web is good and primal scream could maybe do with a longer duration or wider area of effect.
And I must say that Mintman hit gold. Now that hive 3 abilities cost 2 points, they can be boosted so that they're useful in classic as well as being worth the 2 points in combat(not counting webs)! Perfect.
In co_, any decent marine team will waltz into your hive and decimate it. Only a mass ambush from different directions by the aliens or very skilled skulks can withstand such a push. Single point focus gives the marines a little more pause for thought. More importantly, it slows down their skill progression. Less marines with shotguns.
co_ is too biased towards the marines at the moment. Especially once the marines realise is that all they have to do is push from the start as a group like the old 1.04 shotgun rushes.
if marines don't want to get their armour first, then tough if they get hit by a focus skulk, they're not FORCED into an upgrade and an armour upgrade first certainly doesn't hinder them later in their tech-tree.
2 point focus is madness.
Why not? Focus deserves a two-point cost more than Xenocide does. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because some of the reasons mentioned in this thread hit the nail on the head with reasoning on implementing a two point focus.
I understand the need to increase the time focus comes into play, I just don't see this as the most elegant way of doing it. Unfortunately, I can't think of another way to do it...
I like the idea behind hive 3 costing 2 points, however several other things changed that made some more of the abilities take a nerf.
You're right, just because some people are happy with it does not mean that some people are happy with it. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Armor 1 doesn't "counter" focus. It protects you for 1 (RE: one) bite. From that point forward you need a teammate with a welder to take another, and I could care less if you used an aimbot, you're going to take some hits.
In co_, any decent marine team will waltz into your hive and decimate it. Only a mass ambush from different directions by the aliens or very skilled skulks can withstand such a push. Single point focus gives the marines a little more pause for thought. More importantly, it slows down their skill progression. Less marines with shotguns.
co_ is too biased towards the marines at the moment. Especially once the marines realise is that all they have to do is push from the start as a group like the old 1.04 shotgun rushes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So if the marines use teamwork and move out together, then the aliens need to use teamwork in mass ambushing to counter them?
YE GADS! Heaven forbid teamwork being used in combat!
Heh, I was in a game last night where a single xeno won for the alien team. Took out 5 wounded marines and then we died 1 by 1 in spawn <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Focus thoughts:
Focus costing 2 points hurts my end-game play for Lerk and Skulk. I play fade/onos every now and then for some variety, but mostly a lerk/skulker. The problem with lerk is jetpaks. Your job alot of the time is to take out jetpacks. Focus is key to being able to do this at a consistent rate and killing multiple packers in your hive. Without focus its a bit tougher to land the bites needed while they are flying. It also means I get 1 less key ability as a lerk if I want focus.
As for skulks it doesn't hurt as badly, but its still one less thing you can get.
I never had an issue as marine realizing I needed to buy Armor 1 to nullify focus one-shotting me. Once I got a shotgun just about any skulk who bites me once dies one shotty blast after. Now I find myself as marine being able to get Shotty and Armor 1 before I see more than 1 person with focus. This means a whole hell of alot of domination of skulks early on.
Secondly, armor 1 counters focus and ONE person being a team player with a welder counters return bite kills. By this I mean someone gets bitten with focus, they die next focus bite basically. If they are welded up then they are good to go for another 2 bites. This makes it even worse for the non-focus players. If pubs ever figure out the value of welding eachother its going to be over for aliens. A few heavies welding eachother with jetpacker support flying around, going back to heavies for welding...Its a devastating tactic.
Btw I feel this beta is the most balanced up to now, although timer should be 15 minutes default.
But they don't.
Marines are different in at least two ways:
1) they don't have to "save" a point: they get lvl1 dmg on the way to shotgun (which makes killing skulks, and thus getting to the next level, much easier and faster), whereas skulks gain NOTHING on the way to saving up for their 2 points of focus
2) shotguns are ranged weapons as well as close up. You can hit the skulks before they get to you, sometimes killing them, sometimes weakening them enough so that a full sg blast is an instant takedown even for a prevoiusly carapaced skulk. Remember also that marines have pistols for distance: and on the way to shotgun, they now have lvl1 pistols.