The Point Of Attacking And Defending Teams?

LambdaProject · May 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">Or am I just oblivious?</div> I realize that they created attacking and defending teams to reduce spawn camping, but this change offers almost nothing to the gameplay of combat. The time limit was good, yes, but since the defenders can still go on the offencive and kill the cc/hive, whats the point of being called defenders?

If I'm on the "attacking team" why should I have to worry about defending my cc/hive? After all I am "attacking" while they should be "defending".

SaltzBad · May 2004

While I don't like it much either, afaik its to ensure that hopelessly outpowered games don't last longer than they have to.

Drakken · May 2004

This is to let people KNOW what their role is during the game. If you're on the offensive, if you don't rush the hive/cc, then you lose the game obviously. If you're on the defensive all you really need to do is protect the cc/hive or you lose. The marines lose if the timer goes out so they are on the offensive.

The reason aliens are doing so well at defending and attacking is because the marines STILL don't know how to travel in groups and learn how to protect one another. If they learned how to do this, the alien offensive is crushed and are forced onto the defensive, not giving them enough time to attack if they are stuck at their hive.

Licho · May 2004

Well what's the point of capturing flag in CTF game? You don't need the "point", let's say it's the rule, the goal of game..

CC was not removed, because some people felt, that without CC both alien and marine gameplay would be boring, especialy if aliens totally overrun marines and are killing them. Would you like to play on marine team just being spawn killed for 10 minutes? :-)
Attacking team already has some advantages, and skulks are equipped for ambushing/defending more than for attacking..

JazzX · May 2004

The first couple of hours playing with this system you will probably see that the two "roles" are very blurred, but as people start to see how Combat has changed players will adapt and pretty soon the two teams will be employing very different strategies.

Aside from what Licho said, the other reason for leaving the CC in is Psychological. If the Marines are camping outside your hive, racking up some kills but not pushing in, sending a lone skulk to chomp on their CC a bit will throw the marines for a loop and will get the game moving again.

Spazmatic · May 2004

Having to defend the CC, though, can be irksome, still. I agree fully on the no-CC=spawn-kill-fest issue (play on a server with such a plugin). However, there has to be a middle ground in there somewhere, like an insanely buff CC, or perhaps an electrified CC?

v4rA · May 2004

The only point in combat is to have in 3vs3 one gorge with webs as early as posible, one fade and one lerk ( in 5vs5 +2 skulks) , this tactic is based all at the gorge, the gorge webs with adrenaline, and the fade and skulks kill the marines and easy gg, the point is that if u are playing new combat, u can webb the whole hive and the marines wouldnt been able to kill it in 10mins

LambdaProject · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Licho @ May 2 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Well what's the point of capturing flag in CTF game? You don't need the "point", let's say it's the rule, the goal of game..

CC was not removed, because some people felt, that without CC both alien and marine gameplay would be boring, especialy if aliens totally overrun marines and are killing them. Would you like to play on marine team just being spawn killed for 10 minutes? :-)
Attacking team already has some advantages, and skulks are equipped for ambushing/defending more than for attacking..  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I understand what you are saying, but in CTF both teams have the goal of taking the other team's flag and bringing it back. One team isn't called the attackers or defenders. They are both attacking. I just think it's kinda of odd that they call one team the defenders yet they can win by killing the objective - all of a sudden becoming attackers.

But I also understand why it's there solely for the reason of anti spawn camp. IMO the "defenders can kill the objective" (aliens on defenders killing CC) seems like crude excuse for an anti-spawn camping device.

Although I do agree that marines still haven't learned how to travel in packs, what if the aliens are waiting in the vents to pop out and come kill your CC just before the marine squad gets to the hive? It's happened to me a few times. Defenders should in no way be able to end the game early, only the attackers.

Perhaps like a turret/oc in the spawn of the attackers or a "if you stay in this spawn area you will take damage" sort of thing?

Settler · May 2004

it was put in so that marines wouldnt just sit in their base, camp until they get lvl 10, then walk to the hive and destroy it....

Daxx · May 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("LambdaProject")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Perhaps like a turret/oc in the spawn of the attackers or a "if you stay in this spawn area you will take damage" sort of thing?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

While this would require extensive mapping changes, I think this would be the best result.

Zek · May 2004

The CC no longer has any place in Combat. All it does is prevent marines from leaving their base in full force because a skulk can easily sneak around them and start hitting the CC. Once the marines have to start welding their CC it becomes even more difficult to mount an attack. According to Flayra, the CC remains to provide the aliens with a way to end the game if they're dominating marines, but the CC being there is one of the reasons these situations occur; it weakens the marine team's offense and thus makes them more likely to be pressured on the defense.

Even in the event that aliens overpower marines and hold them in their spawn, this rarely happens before at least 5 minutes or so into the game in my experience. By the time the aliens win by killing the CC there are usually only a couple minute left; it wouldn't have killed the marines to wait that long, and they have a better chance of a comeback without their base weighing them down.

Simply put, the CC's presence pulls power from the marine team's offense, thus only making situations where aliens are able to go on offense more common. We need to ditch it and come up with a way to prevent or discourage aliens from attacking marines in their base.

LambdaProject · May 2004

If changing the maps would be a huge problem, we could try spawn invulnerability for defenders for like 2-3 seconds.

ajmagard · May 2004

The two teams should just switch 'roles' without going to RR after one of the teams has won. In real life it would ofcourse not change the game, but it will (I think) have a psychological effect to know that "I'm on the attacking team" when time is running out. The team usually tries the 'final rush'.
So change games to 'sets' where each team is attacker/defender before the RR switch... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

rennex · May 2004

TFC has turrets and lasers protecting spawn areas, and DoD has fake machine guns overlooking the spawn area though players are killed by worldspawn after crossing a threshold. Whether you keep the CC or not, have the marines spawn in a room adjacent to the cc where aliens are instagibbed if they cross the room threshold.

e_Nadagast · May 2004

If you really wanna change Combat drastically (would be for the better IMHO)... give Combat res nodes which instead of giving res, give team points. Whichever team has more points at the end of the round wins. Like cz2 or canalzon for TFC. Then you could make respawns where the enemy team cannot hurt you (no spawn camping) and you'll have intense battles over the entire map. Plus... the winner would be determined by whoever controls the map the best. Say it works like this, for each command point on the map, there are 2 pads, and if you have a player on each of the pads at the same time, you capture the point. From then on it gives you +1 teamscore (res, whatever) every 5 seconds or whatever it is.

SHRUG <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Would be fun to at least try out <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

edit: oh yeah, remove the Hive/CC/gorges/GLs/xeno while you're at it and it would be a *LOT* of fun imo.

Mintman · May 2004

You mean like domination in UT?

e_Nadagast · May 2004

Dunno never played it... but if it's like that then yes. But UT copied it from TF so... YEAH. More like Canalzon from TF <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

The Point Of Attacking And Defending Teams?

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