Spawn Rushing In Combat
TugBoat
Join Date: 2004-04-22 Member: 28077Members
Join Date: 2004-04-22 Member: 28077Members
<div class="IPBDescription">.....</div> Hia,
Im new to theses forums, but have playes ns for along time and find combat has alot of potential to be a good mod.
I just dont see any enjoyment in spawn rushing, and camping early in the game, its pathetic and makes me not want to play this mod.
Why cant a simple install of a few turrets around both bases at the start of this game be implemted to stop this crap of spawn rushing.
I think this would help combat alot, 3 turrets would do the trick for both sides.
Tug.
Im new to theses forums, but have playes ns for along time and find combat has alot of potential to be a good mod.
I just dont see any enjoyment in spawn rushing, and camping early in the game, its pathetic and makes me not want to play this mod.
Why cant a simple install of a few turrets around both bases at the start of this game be implemted to stop this crap of spawn rushing.
I think this would help combat alot, 3 turrets would do the trick for both sides.
Tug.
Comments
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OCs and turrets in the spawn rooms... is the simplest.. best idea for eliminating the complaints about spawn camping... EVER.</span>
<span style='font-family:Impact'>
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>EVER.</span></span>
<span style='font-family:Impact'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>EVER.</span></span>
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>I am totally for real here. This is probably the best idea I've heard of regarding combat. It's probably the best idea I've heard in months.
Not only should they put a few turrets in both bases, but it would give people attacking base something else to kill besides the armory, CC, and the Hive. Automated defense that your team needs to knock out of commission before they can really camp the spawn. It would keep spawn camping out of the first minutes of the game, when camping the spawns is most crucial. And by the time the game has progressed, you'll have higher lifeforms and bigger guns to destroy the turrets with. And even more, it gives marines and gorges something else to weld or healspray.
It would be better training for NS_ mode, which is what combat was intended to do.
This should me implemented. As soon as possible. I don't care if it delays beta 4. I'm sold. Again, I'm completely serious, I know I'm usually full of venom and sarcasm, but this idea is a genuine GOOD one. If any of you nay-say this idea, I will defend it to the death. TO THE DEATH.
... then again, Salvation might be right about this starting to encroach on NS_ mode... It's still a good idea, but if everyone starts to think so, it'd be yet another reason why people play CO_ and not NS_
:[ Dammit. I'm conflicted now.</span>
I also had an idea for combat, which wouldn't take care of the spawn camping, but would help balance the early game for marines..
Have the armory dispense armor, but in small amounts and to a max of armor 1 (45?) if you have armor 1, that is.... this would prevent the abusing of gas/xenocide to make focus uber-usefull even late-game... gas is so effective at eating armor, and along with xeno (a celerity skulk who xenos around a corner and leaps into a group of marines, 5 marines armorless now, fade or skulk wipes up no problem)
Xeno and Spores can be used so effectively to eat away armor and skulks can win the game, I've seen it happen many times!
but combat is so nub anyways, who cares ! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Xeno and Spores can be used so effectively to eat away armor and skulks can win the game, I've seen it happen many times!
but combat is so nub anyways, who cares ! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>...I will count to ten... I... will... cou...</span>
<span style='color:red'> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'> @<b>__</b>ó </span> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> No.
Abusing? ABUSING!!? TEAMWORK IS SUPPOSED TO KILL THE OTHER TEAM FASTER!! I... I... I... YOU <b><u>WANT</u></b> MY BRAIN TO EXPLODE OUT MY NOSE, DONT YOU!?</span> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>ADMIT IT!</span> THAT'S WHAT THE PLOT HAS BEEN ALL ALONG. I'M ONTO YOU NOW. <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>You slipped up. Nobody but NOBODY is actually THIS UNAWARE OF WHAT <a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=cooperating' target='_blank'>COOPERATION</a> IS. You don't exist. You're a figment of my imagination. You're a phantom, a ghost, a jabberwocky. I completely refuse to acknowledge this.</span></span>
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>ù_u ...hff... hfff... calm... returning...
Listen. Listen good. Natural Selection is not about two teams breaking down with each of the players going solo with each other. It's just NOT dammit, and it never will be, because no matter how many people like you DON'T get it, there's a core of players who DO understand how this whole concept of helping your buddy out works. Let me dissect this idea about the armory dispensing armor, because it's the second dumbest idea I've heard outside regenerating armor powerups. First, there's the fact that if the armory goes down, your idea is screwed and so are the marines. Second, and let me make this nice and big so you can see it in your post-4/20 haze,</span> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>WELDERS.</span> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>The **** things are there SPECIFICALLY TO SUPPORT THE REST OF YOUR TEAM, BECAUSE THEY SURE AREN'T GOOD AT KILLING ENEMIES NOW ARE THEY. You use them to fix the other guy's armor, and just like Voltron, the more of them your team has to hook up together, the stronger it gets.
Listen. You're new. You're very new. And just like about 90% of all the new people we have flooding into this game, the only thing you're used to is deathmatching, or mods so overrun with deathmatchers that you simply can't comprehend that there is any other system of first person shooters out there. This **** simply will not fly in Natural Selection, and if you intend on having the most fun with this game, you'd better realize that there are five to ten guys on the same side as you who NEED YOUR HELP in order to beat the other team. Natural Selection is not and never will degenerate into another pointless fragfest mod. Even CO_ is based on cooperation.
PLEASE STOP FORCING ME TO SINGLEHANDEDLY BANKROLL THE GLOBAL PRODUCTION OF ASPIRIN.
Anyway shouldn't this all be in the S&I forum anyway? MOVE-O-MATIC PLZ ADMINS</span>
Seriously, spawncamping is the name of the game in Combat. That's is one of the only ways to win unless you want your enemies to butcher you when you're busy tearing down their CC/Hive.
EDIT: If that prolongs the game too long, make it so you only get that protection until level 5 or something.
You're my new hero swift <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I like the idea of 2 or 3 seconds of invulnerabilty. But only for combat tough... wich I don't play often really. NS is where the party's at.
<span style='font-family:Impact'>
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>EVER.</span></span>
<span style='font-family:Impact'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>EVER.</span></span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oohhhh I agree on this <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Right now, the 1st team that manages to spawncamp the other one wins... this could resolve the problem in early game.
What does a welder do?
eA
EDIT: If that prolongs the game too long, make it so you only get that protection until level 5 or something. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a way better idea.
this is just the greatest idea concerning combat ever, for real!
the only problem with combat seems to be the early game when one team can sometimes manage to get into the other teams base and spawn kill them. effectively winning the game in a very short period of time (even though it might take along time to win). with turrets it would prevent this. with a 2 sec timer it MIGHT prevent it, however it would SCREW over long games and could possibly make it so no team could ever win. sometimes teams have enough trouble just trying to spawn kill the other team at the end of the game in order to get people able to attack the CC (this is only from the alien side of things).
Swift Idiot: Your posts are hilarious. I hope you aren't really as angry as you sound, otherwise you should probably take a break from NS, or at least these forums. Also, your posts always use small text. Can you change it to normal size, so it is easier to read?
I just dont see any enjoyment in spawn rushing, and camping early in the game, its pathetic and makes me not want to play this mod.
Why cant a simple install of a few turrets around both bases at the start of this game be implemted to stop this crap of spawn rushing.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They can, mappers can spawn fully operational(or unbuilt if they wish) and ready turrets, turret factories, offence chambers, sensories etc. They can even give marines offence chambers that shoot aliens, defence chambers that heal marines, the aliens can be given turret factories and turrets(you could make an infested TF and have the TF kill target the func_illusionary or env_sprite that makes it look infested when it dies. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->).
edit: yes mappers can spam but I meant spawn <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I also had an idea for combat, which wouldn't take care of the spawn camping, but would help balance the early game for marines..
Have the armory dispense armor, but in small amounts and to a max of armor 1 (45?) if you have armor 1, that is.... this would prevent the abusing of gas/xenocide to make focus uber-usefull even late-game... gas is so effective at eating armor, and along with xeno (a celerity skulk who xenos around a corner and leaps into a group of marines, 5 marines armorless now, fade or skulk wipes up no problem)
Xeno and Spores can be used so effectively to eat away armor and skulks can win the game, I've seen it happen many times!
but combat is so nub anyways, who cares ! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats the point of gas <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You can move and shoot as soon as you spawn, it isn't like you're left there standing still doing nothing. Shoot the aliens. Its the worst whine ever.
If all the marines die, its pretty much over early on. If all the aliens die, same thing. I've made an initial rush with ONE other marine and killed all the aliens, then its just shotty into a newly spawned skulk. They have it no better than rines do when they all die.
Tip 1) Buy Armor 1. Focus can't kill you, you'll live longer, you'll kill a skulk before you die.
Tip 2) Don't have one person guarding base, and 5 people rushing out early on. That one person will die, then the 5 rushing hive will die(possibly) and then BOOM, you're being "spawn killed".
Tip 3) Sacrifice and buy mines, skulks early on dont like mines. Most people don't get Carapace first, they get focus, leap/celerity. Mine kill skulk. Place mine, sit on/directly behind mine, if skulk kills you, skulk dies too.
Tip 4) Teamwork. Create crossfire scenarios with shotgun. One marine standing 3ft back from a room entrance, other player hiding in corner aiming shotgun directly at players feet in front of them. Skulk runs in to bite, BOOM shotgun blast, dead skulk.
Tip 5) Hold movement keys down when about to spawn, start moving/jumping immediately. Sometimes you'll get a bite that knocks you back enough to kill a skulk or 2. IF you spawn AWAY from the skulks, leave your base. Go attack their hive for levels. Sometimes this will make a few run back to hive which gives your team enough to kill them off.
Tip 6) If you see a fade within the first 2 minutes, realize you're probably going to lose, suck it up, have fun and try next time <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Tip 7) Welders. Weld your teammates armor 1, which they should have, thus extending their life.
Tip 8) Learn to aim better. I can kill 3 skulks at once with a shotty after a new respawn if I get a good spawn.
Tip 9) Learn to dodge better. Dodging skulks/aliens is one of the biggest parts of Combat, jump/turn away from them like a bull fighter.
Tip 10) Early nades! Nothing like spamming nades to stop 5 skulks from biting people to death <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
****THE MOST IMPORTANT TIP****
Stop being hypocritical. You whine about being "spawn killed". So what you're telling me is, when you enter an enemies base, you are going to let them spawn, and instead of shooting/biting them, you're going to RUN AWAY? Right. I see people whine about spawn killing then 2 minutes later I'm blasted by a shotty in the face as soon as I spawn. Get over it, you do it too.
This was a PSA.
Xeno and Spores can be used so effectively to eat away armor and skulks can win the game, I've seen it happen many times!
but combat is so nub anyways, who cares ! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>...I will count to ten... I... will... cou...</span>
<span style='color:red'> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'> @<b>__</b>? </span> <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'> No.
Abusing? ABUSING!!? TEAMWORK IS SUPPOSED TO KILL THE OTHER TEAM FASTER!! I... I... I... YOU <b><u>WANT</u></b> MY BRAIN TO EXPLODE OUT MY NOSE, DONT YOU!?</span> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>ADMIT IT!</span> THAT'S WHAT THE PLOT HAS BEEN ALL ALONG. I'M ONTO YOU NOW. <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>You slipped up. Nobody but NOBODY is actually THIS UNAWARE OF WHAT <a href='http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=cooperating' target='_blank'>COOPERATION</a> IS. You don't exist. You're a figment of my imagination. You're a phantom, a ghost, a jabberwocky. I completely refuse to acknowledge this.</span></span>
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>?_u ...hff... hfff... calm... returning...
Listen. Listen good. Natural Selection is not about two teams breaking down with each of the players going solo with each other. It's just NOT dammit, and it never will be, because no matter how many people like you DON'T get it, there's a core of players who DO understand how this whole concept of helping your buddy out works. Let me dissect this idea about the armory dispensing armor, because it's the second dumbest idea I've heard outside regenerating armor powerups. First, there's the fact that if the armory goes down, your idea is screwed and so are the marines. Second, and let me make this nice and big so you can see it in your post-4/20 haze,</span> <span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>WELDERS.</span> [SIZE=1]The **** things are there SPECIFICALLY TO SUPPORT THE REST OF YOUR TEAM, BECAUSE THEY SURE AREN'T GOOD AT KILLING ENEMIES NOW ARE THEY. You use them to fix the other guy's armor, and just like Voltron, the more of them your team has to hook up together, the stronger it gets.
Listen. You're new. You're very new. And just like about 90% of all the new people we have flooding into this game, the only thing you're used to is deathmatching, or mods so overrun with deathmatchers that you simply can't comprehend that there is any other system of first person shooters out there. This **** simply will not fly in Natural Selection, and if you intend on having the most fun with this game, you'd better realize that there are five to ten guys on the same side as you who NEED YOUR HELP in order to beat the other team. Natural Selection is not and never will degenerate into another pointless fragfest mod. Even CO_ is based on cooperation.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Erm. I'm not new. I've been playing NS since 1.04.... The reason I said that is for COMBAT, where the lerk is already a powerful offensive rambo class as it is, can also use spores to eat away enemy armor and then fly in and focus rape...
Sure, marines could get welders, but that puts them at a -1 point disadvantage for fragging, which is what combat is about, right?
I don't focus so much on teamwork as I do in regular NS, which I play almost exclusively...
But if the armory dispensed armor up to 45, it would also make another viable target... besides it's just a suggestion
Not if I'm the skulk. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo-->
co_core the way the hive room is set up there is no way you can put 3/4 OC to evenly protect the area.
and then on co_kestrel, they have a very large marine start and that makes hard enough on the aliens to get into marine start and really hurt anything, trying to kill turrets in co_kestrel plus the marine team all shooting you would almost impossible
I think it would be too hard to get this idea to work
Rines with resuply would hardly notice an OC firing at them. Especially as they only shoot one target at a time, and mostly miss.
I dont even think invulnerablilty time is required. Spawncamping is a part of every deathmatch game; in co it is necessary to stand by the spawns to kill the hive/cc anyway. Why whine?
Just hold down forward before you spawn, and only worry about where you're going after you've started going there.
If a couple turrets in each spawn were officially supported, it would practically be a moot point for large games, as they would quickly be killed anyways, and in small games they would very effectivley prevent rambo's from killing you before you have a chance to move.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->co_core the way the hive room is set up there is no way you can put 3/4 OC to evenly protect the area.
and then on co_kestrel, they have a very large marine start and that makes hard enough on the aliens to get into marine start and really hurt anything, trying to kill turrets in co_kestrel plus the marine team all shooting you would almost impossible
I think it would be too hard to get this idea to work<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the mappers who created the maps I assume would be responseable for placing the turrets. They have the ability to change the room layouts with little more effort then it would take them to place the turrets anyways. Either way, the turrets don't have to cover the hive/cc, spawing players can do that, the turrets only have to protect the spawn locations.
The only problem I forsee with this idea is that it will prolong the games, in CO a longer game 9 times out of 10 means an alien win. Onos/Lerk/Gorge are almost always able to win a war of attrition against even the most decked out marine team.
If you want to see what one of my posts looks like without font shrinking, read this one.
The thing is, once one person starts spawncamping, whether it's in NS_ or CO_, if he does it well, and his entire team has time to get there with him to help, both marines and aliens can spawncamp quite well in the early game. It only takes 9 LMG bullets or around 5 pistol shots to kill a freshly spawned skulk, and I've done this so many games, I've lost count. As CO_ and NS_ are currently, the first thing I'm concerned about is keeping most of the other team dead. At one hive, or when marines only spawn one or two at a time, spawn camping is the fastest way to win the game.
The way the game is set up, right now, most people have very little choice but to spawncamp if they want to win the fastest. This is why spawncamping still happens. Even though it's pretty lame and you don't feel good doing it, it works, and it works well, so people do it despite how they may feel about it.
Three single turrets placed on the edges of the spawn rooms would cut back on spawn-camping completely, unless either team decides to make the turrets their first target. Again, it's not like these hypothetical turrets are going to last the whole game. The first time someone goes fade or gets a shotgun, those turrets and OCs are going down, and the game plays like normal.
I'm sure most people can agree that there's not anything bad about spawn-camping after people have had a fair amount of time to level up, right? That's how you win the game at the end. You kill all the other guys, and/or their chair/hive. So by the time people have jetpacks and GLs, or fades and onos, the turrets have done their job and made sure that there aren't any 1:20 minute games.
Since aliens tend to have an easier time spawn camping, but marine turrets generally are more effective than alien OCs, this balances out quite fairly.
As for the two second spawn invulnerability, yeah, that's a simple solution too, the problem is that it would still be around at the end game. If you give me an HMG and two full seconds of invulnerability, the only thing that is going to be able to crack the CC is a pair of onos with MAD umbra support. One marine with an HMG shouldn't have to force three alien players to work very close together to get the job done. Not to mention, if you want to avoid spawncamp situations, armor is your invulnerability. Most games, I buy Armor2 ASAP, because it lets me survive 4 normal skulk bites. Heavy armor is especially good at eliminating spawncamping, or at least fighting back against it, if you have 4 points and rush directly to HA.
In the same way, the way to avoid marines spawncamping the aliens is to go fade or onos, which aren't going to be taken out as soon as they make that "POP" alien spawn noise. At the very least, you can charge around and take out a marine or three before going down.
Because aliens are harder to spawncamp than marines, IMO, it makes sense that OCs in the hive wouldn't be as good as turrets in the marine start. Think about it too, the hive heals surrounding aliens VERY fast, unlike the armory, which only gives out health packs.
I think the 3 sentry idea will fix a lot of things people don't like about CO_ which basically is just the spawn camping in the first five minutes. Plus, if your team has a lot of cooperation among it, you can all bite down the turrets. Turrets only fire at one target at a time, and only do 10 damage per shot, so if you get 4 or more skulks in base, only three of them are taking damage, and they're only losing 10 HP at a time. That gives 4 or more skulks more than enough time to bite down one or two turrets before they're all done. Since turrets don't auto-heal like alien OCs, they'll go down fast if the marines don't try to keep them welded. Also, turrets are WEAK. Most people don't know this because nobody ever tries to bite turrets. The things are crazy weak. They're gone in about ten seconds of just one skulk biting them or so.
Another thing turrets in the spawn room would bring about is more dedicated Bilebomber gorges in the early game. Instead of getting Leap --> Xeno or something, people would go Leap/Bilebomb --> Gorge, and follow the skulks in with healspray and bilebomb against the turrets. I think just one bilebomb knocks almost two bars of health off turrets, so you can see how a bilebomb gorge would win the game faster for aliens.
So basically, 3 sentries in each spawn room would cut down spawn camping early in the game, while simultaniously giving both aliens and marines more things to do. You might see people get welders as their first upgrade to support the team by keeping turrets and armor welded, or you might see those bilebomb gorges I was talking about, and this translates directly into DIVERSITY, which is a very beautiful word.