Forest map-help
joekak
Join Date: 2002-10-27 Member: 1650Members
Join Date: 2002-10-27 Member: 1650Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Need help for forest map ideas-very long</div>Okay i got map where the ship crashes on a planet, and the aliens spread out too a forest, and the marines use parts of the ship and build a base way up in the trees. Now this is like the 3rd map ive EVER made for any game so im not sure how too make the landscape and paths, which is where all you nice ppl come in =).
The marine base-
Okay, now ive got the marine base on the side of the map where theres nothing behind it, and its really high up built kinda like a giant tree-house. Coming out of the marine base through the sides are walkways that kinda curve turn and spiral down the sides and middle of the map, down the center of the base is a huge walk way that goes straight down too the forest floor.
Everything under the base is just texture and you cant walk under it since it says in the guide thingy i shouldnt have 2 levels, and, off the side i was thikning of making ropes, that marines could slide down too the bottum, but im not sure how too go about making that. And also, where do i put the resources marine base? I thought maybe i could show resources growing out of big tree's, then i could just make platforms around them for people too build on, but im not sure how to do that either. The base is plenty big for structures, and has spawn points, most of the basic things for the base are taken care of.
The maps landscaping-
Throughout the map, ive got like, fallen trees just laying and blocking certain areas, so instead of a whole huge open area there are only certain paths you can walk. And, on the sides of some tree, i wanted too add something aliens could run up so they could get on the paths and stuff. I thought maybe something like branches spiraling up, then they could jump from one to another till they get too the top, but i dont know how too make this an "alien only thing", and if an alien used this marines could see them...so any ideas on this? This is a fairly large, large large map, so, i put in some fairly large hills every so often, so that groups of marines traveling, could have a man get on a hill and kind of make it easier too see where your going(it was easy for me too get lost). And with standing trees, i added a slimy type of leaf or sumthin that hangs down, its almost perfect for an alien too camp under and wait for a marine too walk by. This is probably what i need most help on, so any reply for this would be most appreciated.
Alien base-
Okay here im not quite sure what too do. Heres basically the layout- the main base is a small hill, surrounded by a small about ankle deep swamp, behind it is its resources. The other 2 smaller bases(i am supposed too have 3 hives right?) are basically the same thing, and not as easy too defend. For the west small base, theres 2 trees that can be reach from a path from the marine base, in which marines can build a small offensive too shoot the west hive, the tree isnt very high, so i need a way for aliens too be able too get too it, otherwie anyone up thee is almost unstoppable. But, i could maybe make it just a tiny bit lower, and smaller, this would make it so you couldnt build as much, and aliens could hit you, making it not-so invincible. The east hive, is right below the top-right corner of the map. And over too the top-left corner of the map is a rocky cliff. Too get too the cliff its just a hike up a few turning paths(its like mesa verde but without anything above it), so i guess its more of a plateau, but, this is where marines can build another offensive. Leader up into the base are some hollowed out trees that i hope aliens can crawl up, and an alien can go up the paths if a marine hasnt built anything too black that yet. Now the main base, it is well defended, but if an alien makes 1 dumb move its all over. From the commander view it looks as if the aliens have mined the hill the main hive is on, its got kind of trenches all around the hill which are sloped on the edges and are very dark which aliens can hide in, and its not one big trench, but many small ones, so a marine can get through them but it just takes alot of strafing. and aliens cant build on the slopes where trenches are, but they can up on top. Heres another thing i need help with- i want too make a spawn point where the trnches are(thats the easy part), but i also want too make it, so the if the west and east bases are gone, and if the marines have killed almost every alien in the trenches, i want too make it so the spawn goes away. Okay now past the trenches. The hive is split too 2 halves, one on each side. From the trenches theres a giant hallway type area that leads straight back too where resources are. From here, marines can decide too either try and get into 1 half of the base, or go too destroy and structures getting resources. Too get into either of the 2 there are doors blocking it that i want too make locked too marines. And going too and fro the 2 halves are little passages that only aliens can come through too attack marines, but are some what easily blocked if you camp a marine outside each one.
Sorry for taking up so much of your time, but i wanna make a really cool map that ppl will look up too. Any comments would be helpful, especially if you know how too make osme of this stuff work.
The marine base-
Okay, now ive got the marine base on the side of the map where theres nothing behind it, and its really high up built kinda like a giant tree-house. Coming out of the marine base through the sides are walkways that kinda curve turn and spiral down the sides and middle of the map, down the center of the base is a huge walk way that goes straight down too the forest floor.
Everything under the base is just texture and you cant walk under it since it says in the guide thingy i shouldnt have 2 levels, and, off the side i was thikning of making ropes, that marines could slide down too the bottum, but im not sure how too go about making that. And also, where do i put the resources marine base? I thought maybe i could show resources growing out of big tree's, then i could just make platforms around them for people too build on, but im not sure how to do that either. The base is plenty big for structures, and has spawn points, most of the basic things for the base are taken care of.
The maps landscaping-
Throughout the map, ive got like, fallen trees just laying and blocking certain areas, so instead of a whole huge open area there are only certain paths you can walk. And, on the sides of some tree, i wanted too add something aliens could run up so they could get on the paths and stuff. I thought maybe something like branches spiraling up, then they could jump from one to another till they get too the top, but i dont know how too make this an "alien only thing", and if an alien used this marines could see them...so any ideas on this? This is a fairly large, large large map, so, i put in some fairly large hills every so often, so that groups of marines traveling, could have a man get on a hill and kind of make it easier too see where your going(it was easy for me too get lost). And with standing trees, i added a slimy type of leaf or sumthin that hangs down, its almost perfect for an alien too camp under and wait for a marine too walk by. This is probably what i need most help on, so any reply for this would be most appreciated.
Alien base-
Okay here im not quite sure what too do. Heres basically the layout- the main base is a small hill, surrounded by a small about ankle deep swamp, behind it is its resources. The other 2 smaller bases(i am supposed too have 3 hives right?) are basically the same thing, and not as easy too defend. For the west small base, theres 2 trees that can be reach from a path from the marine base, in which marines can build a small offensive too shoot the west hive, the tree isnt very high, so i need a way for aliens too be able too get too it, otherwie anyone up thee is almost unstoppable. But, i could maybe make it just a tiny bit lower, and smaller, this would make it so you couldnt build as much, and aliens could hit you, making it not-so invincible. The east hive, is right below the top-right corner of the map. And over too the top-left corner of the map is a rocky cliff. Too get too the cliff its just a hike up a few turning paths(its like mesa verde but without anything above it), so i guess its more of a plateau, but, this is where marines can build another offensive. Leader up into the base are some hollowed out trees that i hope aliens can crawl up, and an alien can go up the paths if a marine hasnt built anything too black that yet. Now the main base, it is well defended, but if an alien makes 1 dumb move its all over. From the commander view it looks as if the aliens have mined the hill the main hive is on, its got kind of trenches all around the hill which are sloped on the edges and are very dark which aliens can hide in, and its not one big trench, but many small ones, so a marine can get through them but it just takes alot of strafing. and aliens cant build on the slopes where trenches are, but they can up on top. Heres another thing i need help with- i want too make a spawn point where the trnches are(thats the easy part), but i also want too make it, so the if the west and east bases are gone, and if the marines have killed almost every alien in the trenches, i want too make it so the spawn goes away. Okay now past the trenches. The hive is split too 2 halves, one on each side. From the trenches theres a giant hallway type area that leads straight back too where resources are. From here, marines can decide too either try and get into 1 half of the base, or go too destroy and structures getting resources. Too get into either of the 2 there are doors blocking it that i want too make locked too marines. And going too and fro the 2 halves are little passages that only aliens can come through too attack marines, but are some what easily blocked if you camp a marine outside each one.
Sorry for taking up so much of your time, but i wanna make a really cool map that ppl will look up too. Any comments would be helpful, especially if you know how too make osme of this stuff work.
Comments
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I'm going to be blunt here. There are no <b>official</b> outdoor maps in Natural-Selection and there won't be <b>official ones</b>in the forseeable future.
By all means, go ahead. Only thing I would watch out for: how are you going to make the forest canopy without obscuring the commander's view?
Good luck on making it work, though.
-Ryan!
"The question is not whether we will be extremist but what kind of extremist will we be."
-- Martin Luther King, Jr
So here's my take on the issue :
"<b><u>Open Air and Outdoor Maps</b></u>
Ever since a few games like Soldier of Fortune and Serious Sam made outdoor areas look so nice and pretty, many people have been trying to make similar levels with expansive and detailed outdoor maps. There is nothing AT ALL wrong with an outdoor map – it just doesn’t fit the theme of NS. Part of the whole surrounding experience of NS is intense, claustrophobic combat which can only be achieved in tight quarters.
On a different tact, it also creates an unfair advantage towards marines because of their superior fire-power. The Aliens need the cramped, enclosed areas to give them the ability to ambush and engage the Marines up close.
That said, your map can have open air and outdoor components but on the whole it should be an indoor environment. A good example of this is Merkaba’s map (see Figures 8-11). It is mostly indoors but it has a few sections which contain outdoor areas which help create a lusher environment – but the players cannot go into these areas. That is the key, if it helps with the mood of the map then it’s ok to include – but players should not be allowed into these areas (for the moment anyway, things may change in later releases)."
i hope it will turn out great, and ill definetely DL it :>
Skulk, Cant he leap from tree to tree and hang there? I dont know if they can use the leap move from walls to walls but if so he would be god up there.
Gorge, NO reall advantage but i see no disavatage.
Lerk, OMG ALL THE FLYING ROOM HE COULD EVER WANT!
Fade, Might have a disavantage, but i dont know, blink around would be easy.
Onos, MORE KILLING ROOM!
Athought i think it doesnt fit what the team invisioned i say GO FOR IT, if its good ill play it, i mean if we just played HL and never did anything diffrent for it there wouldnt be a NS coming out now would there?
You just make the canopy with transparent entities with the top coated in the null texture, making it invisible when seen from the top, but look perfectly fine from the underneath.
If you could get it nice and claustrophobic with some good textures, it could work really well. I can just see a fade blinking around behind the tree trunks, or a skulk leaping through the treetops. You never know, if you set it in swamp and make it really spooky and gloomy, it might be a popular map.
Leaping from tree to tree would take a lot of skill, making it nearly imposible to learn at all......
For gorges... umm they are pretty much ###### up because they relly a lot on getting some cover when marines appear.
For lerks, advantage/disadvantage because they can fly, ok they can fly a lot, thats cool...... But remember that lerks are really weak and they need to get cover when things start to get dirty.
Fade, for fades, this is a nightmare since they stop blinking when they collide with a solid.
Onos, umm i don´t know, onos are pretty much a killing machine anywhere, but "sniping" marines would really bother an onos
I don't follow you on that one.
For those of you who play Day of Defeat, go download dod_flak88 and explore that map. It features a huge open outdoor area with r_speeds of up to 1400, but the whole point is that while it is an open map, it is still impossible to shoot from one end to the other. There are plently of trenches, valleys and hills about to break things up and keep you worried.
There is a large bunker running underground and it has entrances at 3 different points in the map, so if you feel like taking a different route to the other side of the map, the option is yours.
Dont trash outdoor maps in general until you've actually put some thought into it. A map set at the bottom of an extremely twisty canyon would still be classed as an outdoor map, even though it could be made with a layout similar to most indoor maps. If you have a problem with <b>open</b> maps, be very clear about it.
Correct me if I've missed something (not mentioned earlier), but as long as it is near some sort of space station, and dotted with the occasional radar tower to make commander mode seem likely, I see few reasons why this couldn't work. It would be mostly a case of making it look like a realistic sci-fi environment, and keeping the r_speeds low, what with all the weird rocks and trees and stuff taking up so many polys.
Leaping from tree to tree would take a lot of skill, making it nearly imposible to learn at all......
For gorges... umm they are pretty much ###### up because they relly a lot on getting some cover when marines appear.
For lerks, advantage/disadvantage because they can fly, ok they can fly a lot, thats cool...... But remember that lerks are really weak and they need to get cover when things start to get dirty.
Fade, for fades, this is a nightmare since they stop blinking when they collide with a solid.
Onos, umm i don´t know, onos are pretty much a killing machine anywhere, but "sniping" marines would really bother an onos
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Skulk: This game is gonna be hard as heck to ever master and i beleave that would just be one more thing to get giood at, but i think it would be very far frome impossible.
Gorge: In a forest i hardly ever see animals and stuff cause they have all kinds of freaking cover all over the place, and a gorge doesent seem much bigger than say a fox or a dog or something like that. Made right with small animal burrows or falling trees and whatnot there would be plenty of room.
Lerk:^ Could have plent of cover as i said, and also tree branches up high would give lerks awsome advantages.
Fade: Yeah i beleave this might be the worst off class, but guess what, trees also stop bullets.
Onos: Yeah i think tihs mean machine is always gonna be a mean machine.
_ -_ As for r_speeds. This can be cleared by using solid tree wall textures to actually make rooms. its done in Firearms in a few maps and when done right it doesn't look all that bad.
[edit] This map would be cool to if it had a small station near by. Could have been a reasarch outpost or something. PLace 1 of the hives within the strucutre. This would give you the outdoor level you wanted and still give the indoor environment that poeple seem to like or want for NS. As well would be a change of pass after trees and trees and trees!and be a very nice combonation[edit]
Then its not a problem, cause i as i said before, NS wasnt a HL concept?
Do you get what im saying?
Innovation and change people. Its the only way to go. Noo need to stick to strict guidlines, if we did that we wouldnt get anywhere.
a) balanced
b) played much
c) get official status..
If those things don't bother you...go for it..
I, myself, would like to follow the guidelines that flayra has built because ultimately, this is his dream... you guys can make any map imaginable that will have all the bits of ns and function in the ns environment - but it wont be NS.. it'll be some defunct map played on custom servers that people will quit out of because they don't have the maps - why wont they have them? because they aren't official...and why aren't they official? because you didn't follow the guidelines... why didn't you follow the guidelines? that you have to answer yourself... rules aren't made because people are trying to be mean....they are made so everything fits in nicely...
this is no attack at the original poster of this message... it is just suprising to see posts like this...the guidelines are just that - guidelines...they should be followed...they can be bent - not broken...
If anyone here has played AvP, the second marine level is set in the marine colony, and this would make for a good NS map idea. It isnt much more than glorified corridors, and the night time setting does away with the marines main advantage.
OK well then i wont listen to what you said because i would have to be EAGER TO MAKE AND OUTDOOR MAP, i just support someone trying something new.
Also i keep hereing the BALANCE agrument but then i wonder, have you guys actually played the game to know if it would be balanced or not, NO you havnt. So then how do you come to the conclusion that it wouldnt be balance, the dev team. But have they even took the time to test this.
Here to the dev team:
Has anyone actually made a completly outdoor and heavly wooded map to test and see if the game would be unfairly balanced towards marines? Or is this just an assumption?
Everyone thinks it's great people want to map for NS - but map for ns...don't make a map and then make ns fit your map..
but what is to say the guy who wrote this post comes up with a map that TOTAL fits NS but is outdoors, and yes ITS POSSIBLE.
i just think rather then tell the guy why this idea is stupid you should help him make it the best it can be cause i know that if it was a well made map and fit the ns dark futerstic feel then i would love to play it as a change of pace from all the indoor maps (you knw when i finaly get the chance to play them that is).
Have you played UT2k3, well there is a few maps in that game that are completly outdoors and they actually feel like your in a futuristc game becuase of the add ons. Silos, tech buildings.
Now the one thing it would lose if done wrong would be the claustraphobic feel, but from the trailor the maps already made seemed open to me.
And btw, I never said his idea was stupid...nor did anyone else... I wish someone like greedo or chrome would comment in here...just to clear this up...
wrong. flay said no outdoor maps for v1 because he wanted to get it out asap and testing that would take awhile, but he says that they might be in later releases, depending on gameplay value
Go ahead, make your outdoor map. I won't stop you, though other people may. But don't come cying when it doesn't work.
If it doesn't come out as you planned, what have you lost? Nothing, you have only gained in your map making skills.
If it looks good, of course people will play it, however it it <i>plays</i> bad, then you'll loose some people on the idea tottally.