I Can Hear Yooou Little Aliens :)

Galvatron · March 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">should this be??</div> maybe this should be in the suggestions forum, but i don't know, someone please move it if need be... ANYWAY: what do you guys think about the comm being able to hear which hive the aliens start off with? it really seems to me it eliminates quite alot of the mystry of early game.

Swift_Idiot · March 2004

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>Is there a tally of how many matches this has seriously effected? Also, usually, the first res-capping team to go down to skulks indicates what hive the aliens have.</span>

DragonMech · March 2004

Actually, this is a good idea, as knowing what hive the aliens start with can be a decided tactical advantage. If the comm says "their hive is subsector!" I proceed to haul arse to pipleine in the hopes I'll beat the gorges & skulks there to lock down the hive. A one hive lockdown is a pleasant way to start the match - if you are a marine.

FCC · March 2004

The greatest ability the commander has is their ability to oversee the entire map and listen to what the aliens are doing. If the development team removed the ability to hear the early hive, would removing this also affect the later stages of the game? And removing the ability to hear hives might be difficult (from a code point of view), so would having to remove the entire ability to hear have to happen?

I think it is fine as it is right now, if the alien team knows exactly where the marines start everytime, why shouldn't the marine team?

Kepa · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FCC @ Mar 30 2004, 11:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think it is fine as it is right now, if the alien team knows exactly where the marines start everytime, why shouldn't the marine team?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Probably because the aliens depend much more on ambushes and surprise to stay alive than the marine team does.

Not that I mind the listening for hive tactic. I just wanted to point out that the teams aren't symettrical and it's not right to imply that they should have matching early advantages. It would be like saying since the marines start with light machine guns everytime, why shouldn't the alien team?

Ajurian · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kepa @ Mar 31 2004, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> the marines start with light machine guns everytime, why shouldn't the alien team?  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Aliens dont have fingers so it would be kinda hard for them to use a LMG <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' />

Kepa · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ajurian @ Mar 31 2004, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kepa @ Mar 31 2004, 12:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> the marines start with light machine guns everytime, why shouldn't the alien team? </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Aliens dont have fingers so it would be kinda hard for them to use a LMG <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Gorges could fire the LMG with their tongues.

EZero · March 2004

and onos will pewp grenades <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' />

moskiitto · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>the marines start with light machine guns everytime, why shouldn't the alien team?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Aliens start with biteguns everytime, why shouldn't the marine team?
bitegun > knife

Kepa · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moskiitto @ Mar 31 2004, 03:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>the marines start with light machine guns everytime, why shouldn't the alien team?</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Aliens start with biteguns everytime, why shouldn't the marine team?
bitegun > knife  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
First of all, I said that quote in order to try to show that "one team gets this advantage, why shouldn't the other team" is not a reasonable statement when the teams are supposed to be very different from each other by design.

Second, bitegun > knife is questionable. The knife is actually pretty good. It's faster than a skulkbite and it only takes 3 attacks to down an early, 1-hive skulk. This is the same number of attacks it takes to kill an armor 1 marine with bite.

Third, onoses couldn't poop out grenades. There are too many weapons already. Unless grenade pooping replaced stomp, which could work.

uberbroke · March 2004

and what the heck, lets just have both sides start with knives and lmg and pistol... And have skulks run as slow as marines, take away their ability to climb walls or gestate. In fact, lets have skulks look humaniod, except they'll wear green shirts and geeky glasses. And while we're at it, lets have both sides have hit locations so shooting at the head does 2x the damage as torso. And just to top things off lets give both sides the ability to purchase weapons of their liking at the start of the round. Oh, not to forget, the rounds would be made short, with the primary objective of the Ts... err aliens are to blow up some crates and the marines to guard them... Either that or roast marshmellows on top of a building overlooking a trainstation.

How's that? Now thats a splendid balancing tweak.

Feed me.

Snidely · March 2004

You're right, ub3rbr0k3 - there should be no tweaking or balancing done to NS ever again.

...

Yeesh.

SiDSquishy · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Actually, this is a good idea, as knowing what hive the aliens start with can be a decided tactical advantage. If the comm says "their hive is subsector!" I proceed to haul arse to pipleine in the hopes I'll beat the gorges & skulks there to lock down the hive. A one hive lockdown is a pleasant way to start the match - if you are a marine.
</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

And this is why I maintain pubbers have no idea what they're doing...

SaltzBad · March 2004

You can't hear the hive itself, 'only' walking/spawning and the RT. As to the question in this thread, it affects every match - hearing RTs is a useful part of resdenial.

Forlorn · March 2004

Being able to hear hive node at start = bad

Should be removed

Retales · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 31 2004, 07:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Being able to hear hive node at start = bad

Should be removed  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Indeed

Wolv · March 2004

It's a design issue allright, so I guess we'll just have to get over it and let them focus on the more important stuff.
I suppose it would be possible to decrease the efficiency with a cheap hack, by letting the comm never hear alien rt's.

Forlorn · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wolv @ Mar 31 2004, 08:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> It's a design issue allright, so I guess we'll just have to get over it and let them focus on the more important stuff.
I suppose it would be possible to decrease the efficiency with a cheap hack, by letting the comm never hear alien rt's.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
It's a huge deal in organized play, knowing what hive they have at the start can and will dictate your strategy for beating them. If it actually took some effort to scout out the hives then it would actually make having a random starting hive an <b>advantage</b> for the aliens, and not the marines.

bioshock · March 2004

what's the problem with this? aliens know where the marines start

Plaguebearer · March 2004

I think the problems with this are obvious.

Cyndane · March 2004

I actually agree with Forlorn. woot!?

coil · March 2004

<i>Nem appears to be smarter than me, see below. ^^</i>

Amelek · March 2004

I think hearing RT's as comm should be removed, but only because I suck at it. And I have lost matches/scrims because I thought the aliens were at a different hive ... gg me.

Godhand · March 2004

Commander is omnicient. Commander is a god.

he sees all and knows all and gives us our guns.

There is no really justifiable reason that he should be able to hear the hive building. Like bioshock said, aliens know where marines start. Even if the comm couldnt hear,he could jsut as easily sent a scout to the hives and check em out. Either way, its nt that big of an influence on us pubbers. i cant speak for t3h l3e7 (1anner5, cause according to squishy, i have no idea what im doing.

Umbraed_Monkey · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Mar 31 2004, 12:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Actually, this is intentional. The Commander taps into the facility's network and can hear but not see the aliens anywhere. He can also see projectiles. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Youre kidding. Why the randomized hive then? And if the facility's network can hear, why cant they see?

Godhand, read the manual. Story-wise, the comm is only as 'ominscient' as the marines and their nano's. They cant see the hive because the Kharaa's bacteria is stopping the nanites from gathering information about them.

Nemesis_Zero · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Mar 31 2004, 05:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Actually, this is intentional. The Commander taps into the facility's network and can hear but not see the aliens anywhere. He can also see projectiles.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Hate to correct you there, coil, but Flayra clearly stated that this is a very nasty, hard to remove bug which he'd like to get out, but at this time, the investment of resources to accomplish that is just not up to scale.

Scuzball · March 2004

How about the comm can hear aliens after he builds an Obs?

Just a thought from a clueless pubbie ^__^

Godhand · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Mar 31 2004, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Godhand, read the manual. Story-wise, the comm is only as 'ominscient' as the marines and their nano's. They cant see the hive because the Kharaa's bacteria is stopping the nanites from gathering information about them.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
sarcasm bro...

EEK · March 2004

The problem is just the way commander mode works. It's a floating ghost of a player above the map, meaning all the sounds, etc. carry through. In 1.04 the hive started at about 75% health, and the commander could easilly hear the 'Bloosh bloosh' of it healing itself. This was taken out so you could no longer hear it, and no longer know where the hive is, at least, until people realized you could hear the alien RTs.

The simplest fix is to simply make the alien RT very quiet, or remove the sound alltogether.

FCC · March 2004

I think the major problem is not whether the commander can hear the hive, but rather can the development team even remove the sound while not effecting other sounds the commander can hear. I do not know the full extent of the problem, as I am still computer programmer in training, but it seems to me to be very difficult.

Forlorn · March 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Mar 31 2004, 04:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The problem is just the way commander mode works. It's a floating ghost of a player above the map, meaning all the sounds, etc. carry through. In 1.04 the hive started at about 75% health, and the commander could easilly hear the 'Bloosh bloosh' of it healing itself. This was taken out so you could no longer hear it, and no longer know where the hive is, at least, until people realized you could hear the alien RTs.

The simplest fix is to simply make the alien RT very quiet, or remove the sound alltogether.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Then all you have to do is listen for the skulks running out of the, problem not solved completely

Although if the aliens are smart they will scamper out fast to make sure the comm has a hard time figuring out what's up

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> what's the problem with this? aliens know where the marines start</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

It's called having distinct sides, aliens start with weaker creatures but are supposed to have map control in terms of scouting (marines are at the same start every game) whereas marines have the stronger units to start mounting up the pressure

I Can Hear Yooou Little Aliens :)

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