Mss32.dll Constant Crashes

MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
I've had this problem since I'd say Beta 5 (though I think I had it in Beta 4);

About 3/4th of the time when I go to launch NS (either shortcut or through Steam's "Play Games" menu) the game will simply crash. It will get to the default screen where you have Find Servers, Options etc and then it just crashes out. The Windows error thing comes up asking me if I wanna send in an information report, and it lists mss32.dll as the problem.

Doing some research this dll is linked to the Miles Audio System which alot of games are using these days.

Things to consider/know;

- I do have the latest sound card drivers on my sound card.

- I have tried several different version drivers for my sound card, same problem.

- I do not have this problem in any other game, including Halflife, Counter Strike and other non-HL games that use Miles Audio. It only happens in Natural Selection.

- I have tried a reinstall.

- I have tried updating the Miles Audio files. (note, updating the mss32.dll and other Miles Audio files that reside in the NS/HL folder cause the game to crash with other errors, so I assume you must use the version that comes with the install).

- I have tried deleting these files and letting Steam reinstall them (thanks to Medhead for this suggestion) and still no luck.

- I have tried lowering and raising the sound quality ingame.

- I have tried enabling and disabling EAX (and the other sound option) support.

- Miles Audio is also used in other applications that aren't games just fine for me, such as Winamp 5.

- I've asked around other places for help and tried all the above to help but since the site is just now back up and running, it's the first chance I've had to ask for help in the official place.

---
System Specs:

PIII 600 mhz
GeForce MX 4000 64 MB
512 MB PC100
ESS Allegro PCI Audio

(yes not the greatest system but it handles HL1 decent, and can actually play HL2 decent, as well as UT2k4 and Doom3)

It's not really a game grippling error, it's just sometimes it can take me 10 minutes to get a stable game launch that doesn't crash. Once I do that I can play normally for hours on end no problems. If anyone can help or see something I may have over looked would be greatly appreciated.
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Comments

  • SariselSarisel .::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation Posts: 2,192
    Is there another empty slot in your mobo for your sound card? Try changing it.
  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    QUOTE(Sarisel @ Jan 3 2007, 07:28 AM) »

    Is there another empty slot in your mobo for your sound card? Try changing it.


    Sound Card is intergrated into the mobo. I know not the best of things, but every other HL game has no problems using Mss32.dll
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  • SariselSarisel .::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation Posts: 2,192
    So then the question is: what is the unique thing that NS does in relation to sound? What does NS do that other mods don't?

    Try cl_musicenabled 0 and mp3volume 0, see what happens. Maybe there is some problem when playing the game's sounds together with the game's music, since other mods don't do this (except DoD, but you didn't say you played it).
  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    QUOTE(Sarisel @ Jan 3 2007, 08:57 AM) »

    So then the question is: what is the unique thing that NS does in relation to sound? What does NS do that other mods don't?

    Try cl_musicenabled 0 and mp3volume 0, see what happens. Maybe there is some problem when playing the game's sounds together with the game's music, since other mods don't do this (except DoD, but you didn't say you played it).


    Both are already set to 0.
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  • SariselSarisel .::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation Posts: 2,192
    Is your problem in the interface only or do you crash out while you are in-game too (if you manage to get it working)?
  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    Bout 1/3 to 1/2 of the time give or take, I'll launch NS via Steam and it'll get into the loadup screen (where you see Find Servers and Options etc). At that point the various menus won't come up (i.e. Find Servers and the other text aren't shown just the background) and it crashes immediately to desktop with a Mss32.dll error.

    Once I launch NS via Steam and it doesn't give me that error, it never crashes to desktop. From that point on I can play just fine, it's just I gotta keep restarting NS until it doesn't crash on start up first.

    Occasionally it's one or two crashes, sometimes though I gotta restart NS like 5 or 6 times to get a "normal" launch of the game.

    This never happens with CS 1.6, TFC, or HL. I can launch all of those and never have any crash related to Mss32.dll. I haven't tried DoD lately but a while back, months and months (a year give or take) I played DoD a few times with no crashes that related to this.
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  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 1,725 Advanced user
    I also have this problem, but without error message.
    Are you by any chance using win2k?
    After a fresh install of win2k the problem is still there but doesn't happen that much like before.

    My system specs are a lot better, but I'm using on-board sound, too.


  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    Windows XP Pro SP2 here.
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  • SariselSarisel .::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::. Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18557Members, Constellation Posts: 2,192
    Unfortunately I'm pretty much in the dark here about what part of the coding in NS is interfering with the Miles Sound System drivers.. sorry.

    If I were in your position, I would try get a sound card for $30 or so.
  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    You are in luck cause the thing which goes wrong is miles.
    As stated HERE miles is outdated and servers should be using speex. (better with bandwith, and only uses a tad more cpu)

    sv_voicecodec voice_speex
    The above one makes a server run the newer speex codec instead of miles
    sv_voicequality 1 : 2400bps, lowest quality
    sv_voicequality 2 : 6000bps
    sv_voicequality 3 : 8000bps
    sv_voicequality 4 : 11200bps
    sv_voicequality 5 : 15200bps, highest quality
    the above choses a quality

    You can set these clientside to know its atleast not your fault. And convince the admins of the servers you plan on to start running speex. (we are in luck, valve is gone uhm.. convince admins to run it by making it default last time I read about it)

    Dunno if it helps client side, but its the codec for the microphone, atleast give it a whirl. smile-fix.gif
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  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    QUOTE(DC_Darkling @ Jan 6 2007, 06:12 PM) »

    You are in luck cause the thing which goes wrong is miles.
    As stated HERE miles is outdated and servers should be using speex. (better with bandwith, and only uses a tad more cpu)

    sv_voicecodec voice_speex
    The above one makes a server run the newer speex codec instead of miles
    sv_voicequality 1 : 2400bps, lowest quality
    sv_voicequality 2 : 6000bps
    sv_voicequality 3 : 8000bps
    sv_voicequality 4 : 11200bps
    sv_voicequality 5 : 15200bps, highest quality
    the above choses a quality

    You can set these clientside to know its atleast not your fault. And convince the admins of the servers you plan on to start running speex. (we are in luck, valve is gone uhm.. convince admins to run it by making it default last time I read about it)

    Dunno if it helps client side, but its the codec for the microphone, atleast give it a whirl. smile-fix.gif


    It's not a server issue, I can tell you that right now.

    I don't even get into a server, at all, when these crashes happen.

    Literally, it happens like this;

    1) I launch Steam via the Start Menu
    2) Once Steam is launched, I double click Natural Selection from under My Games
    3) Natural Selection starts up to where you see the initial background screen (before Find Servers, Start Server, etc comes up).
    4) At this point either two things happen A) NS will crash to desktop, with an error stating something wrong with Mss32.dll or B) NS will load fine and Find Servers, Start Server, etc will come up allowing me to play normally

    Out of all the times starting NS, part A of #4 happens at least half the time or more, requiring several restarts of the NS client until it doesn't crash. Once it doesn't crash on startup, I am free to select Find Servers, queue the Master List and begin playing just fine. No sound issues ingame.

    It does this with a completely vanilla install and my current install that has low poly models, ambient sound removed etc so I know it's not some file or files I edited wrong. And yes while the Speex codec is better, it's not a server issue cause as I point out I never really get into a server, it just crashes on me before that even gets a chance to take place.

    I will try the config code you gave, it might work but I doubt it. Thanks for the information.
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Don't get me wrong, but a clean install DOES NOT MATTER.

    Like you said its a miles dll. Miles is a mic codec. Whereever you use speex or miles it does not matter since steam has both codecs. I only stated that if you place these commands in perhaps you force your client (you) to ignore the miles codec.

    Reïnstalling the steam client does not help your miles codec. I suggest you start googling for codec and miles. Redownload the latest and install, see if it helps.

    Again, its the codec for the microphone, so any problem might be resolved by fixing the bad codec or bypassing it.
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  • TheGuyTheGuy Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19295Members, Constellation Posts: 380 Fully active user
    You might want to try steam://support/?Issues=Crash* to see if there's any codec conflicts on your system that could be causing the issue.
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  • WoZeRWoZeR Join Date: 2005-07-01 Member: 55080Members, Constellation Posts: 12
    Maverickk, Do you have a Dr Watson crash dump that I can take a look at. Also attach the crash dump files from the steam directory. These should be just like the Dr Watson crash dumps.
  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    edited January 2007
    So far, using sv_voicecodec voice_speex in my config.cfg seems to work, NS has started up every time with no crash, so far (knock on wood)

    If it crashes further with the same error, I'll check on those logs for you.
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Se, told you. its a codec problem with the miles codec. Since its old, not using it would be better.
    Now if all servers do the same this world would be a better place
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  • KittamaruKittamaru Join Date: 2006-09-18 Member: 58017Members Posts: 283
    I was going to say to use Steams game server browser and just set the game to NS, but seems you got it fixed smile-fix.gif
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  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    edited January 2007
    Well sadly, the problem still exists. For some reason it just now started. Same crash error dealing with Mss32.dll, even with sv_voicecodec voice_speex in the config.cfg ;(

    *edit* Hmm I'm gonna test some settings. Since I applied the voice_speex command I basically altered my config in two manners; one was the way it was, with all voice variables set to 0 (I never liked playing with the voice comms turned on ingame), two was I changed all the voice_ variables 1 so voice comm was on in game. I got the couple crashes, I noticed I had the voice_ stuff set to 1 (voice_enable, voice_modenable etc).

    So now I'm gonna revert to all the voice_ stuff turned back off, with voice_speex still set as the codec of choice and see if it goes back to not crashing. if that's the case, that's a small trade off i'd be willing to make, rather have a stable game rather than some random voices in servers.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    I keep saying, its your mic. Not using the mic might indeed not use the codec.
    Replacing the codec (miles one) or not using it are your only 2 options.
    Do note that the server you play on can force a codec
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  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    QUOTE(DC_Darkling @ Jan 15 2007, 09:12 PM) »

    I keep saying, its your mic. Not using the mic might indeed not use the codec.
    Replacing the codec (miles one) or not using it are your only 2 options.
    Do note that the server you play on can force a codec


    I can't see how it's a microphone specifically. My mic isn't USB based, it's a standard oldschool speaker/mic port style. It works just fine with any number of other games and applications that use the Miles audio. I've tried replacing the codec before, downloading the most recent version off of the Miles website, that has the same effect.

    I'll continue testing with all the voice_ stuff turned off. Like I said if it's a tradeoff, I'll take a stable game over some voices.
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Thats the weird point then. Miles is the codec which was used for microphone ingame. (Now its speex) Thats why I say its something with the mic + codec. Something along those lines messes up. For steam games its either speex or miles, and they are run for the microphone. Nothing else sofar I know.
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  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    edited January 2007
    Ok, so what about other Steam games?

    I can play Counter Strike 1.6 just fine, without needing to specify sv_voicecodec voice_speex with all the voice variables set to 1 not 0. Same goes for Half Life 1 (which uses Miles doesn't it?). I haven't tested the voice comm in TFC or DoD but both of those games play just fine for me (DoD was a little laggy in the frame rates, probably due to the full servers I played it on the once or twice I did play it).

    I really think it's some combo of the higher requirements of NS and how it uses Miles. I've played hundreds of games with this same sound card and the same headset (I buy the same style headsets if I ever lose or break one) and plenty of those games used Miles in some manner and some of those included voice comms included (not alot, a few really). But you see where i'm goin?

    As long as NS doesn't crash on me, I'll take it. Though I wouldn't mind knowing specifically the cause, that's just a bonus really.

    *edit*

    Yep, even with all voice_ settings at 0, it still gets the occasional crash with the Mss32.dll error. Guess I'll have to live with restarting NS a handful of times every time I want to play for it to not crash upon start up.

    *edit #2*

    I did a steam://support/?Issues=Crash* as recommended earlier, there were no conflicts with codecs found.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Good points. So then why does it keep crashing on the miles dll. Thats just uncool. hmm.. I'll think about this one. Its odd indeed
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  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    I know it's not a mic issue, I can unplug the headset (again standard I/O jacks not USB) from the PC, reboot, start Steam and start NS for it to give me the same crash and error (this is with no speakers or headset plugged in).
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    I won't say its odd other games don't crash on the dll, but plugging or not plugging in a mic does not stop the game from using a codec. After all, if the server enables mics, you can also receive in that codec.

    Still, very odd
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  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    edited January 2007
    An idea but I doubt it will pan out;

    I did some googling for anything related to mss32.dll and Half Life/NS. Nothing really came up for NS but there are a few dozen issues with mss32.dll with Half Life 2. I know different game and all, but one of the common fixes for some of those issues was to take the mss32.dll file that was located in your windows\system32\ directory and copy it to the Half Life 2 folder

    I looked around my XP install, I have no mss32.dll in windows\system32\

    That could just mean Half Life 2 puts a copy there upon install (not sure) or it might on a long shot mean I don't have that file there by accident when it should be.

    So, would you recommend copying mss32.dll from my Program Files\Steam\steamapps\usernamel\half-life folder and place it in system32? (i'm more of a hardware guy, so i'm not sure if an extra dll would cause unneeded damage.

    Side note, should the mss32.dll be in that HL directory I mentioned? From what I could tell all the dll's NS really uses are in it's folder or sub folders, unless it calls on them from outside folders (such as the \half-life folder)?

    Side note #2, WoZer suggested posting the crash dumps from DrWatson and Steam. I checked on the Watson one, and it's simple .txt file is over 10 megs itself o_O plus it might contain information I don't want public, like my steam login information and such? If there's no sensitive data in either log I'll host them for someone to graciously help me comb over for any details that might shed some light.
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Its old but hey.. for PHL:

    Missing mss32.dll

    We've received a few reports of Half-Life missing the required mss32.dll after applying the update. The file should be located in your root Half-Life folder. You will need to uninstall Half-Life and reinstall it and the full Half-Life 1.1.0.9 client update.



    Also pasting in DLLs in a windows dir should never hurt aslong as you know its a good dll. (not a virus or stuff)
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  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    Well, I can rule out a reinstall of Half Life as a fix. Over the years (I've played NS off and on a few times since around 04') I've formatted my PC at least 3 times since then and i've installed and reinstalled Steam, Half Life and NS at least a half a dozen times or more both before and after a fresh format, so I know it's not something that could be fixed so easily.

    I could live with it, if I could just find out why it happens. Even if I couldn't fix it, knowing why specifically would be like a huge weight off my shoulders. I feel like I should know, I mean I've played enough Steam games over the years to know how to configure them to stop various common problems people get or at least smart enough to Google a fix ;p But this one just seems to take the cake for me, tried everything I know.
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  • DC_DarklingDC_Darkling Join Date: 2003-07-10 Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver Posts: 4,381 Advanced user
    Sorry.. let me clarify..

    Its a OLD post dating prior to steam. Therefore I did not mean the reïnstall part cause it also said patch. It also says however it should be in the HL root. never hurts to try.

    After searching on my comp for that dll I found a big list.

    ATI screensavers dir
    sierra HL dir (old HL)
    demo for American McGees Alice dir
    spellforce dir
    photodeluxe dir
    Alice dir
    ALso the next ones might aply to you:
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  • MaverickkMaverickk Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58857Members Posts: 119
    Yep, I've got it in the same places.

    ATM I've got installed

    Half Life 1
    Counter Strike 1.6
    Natural Selection
    Deathmatch Classic
    Team Fortress Classic
    Ricochet

    and Mss32.dll is in the right spots for all those games. All check out clean for spyware, adware, malware and viruses so I'm pretty sure it's a legit copy of the file. Thinking I should call Guinness or Ripley, they have a mystery on their hands ;o
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