<!--quoteo(post=1586584:date=Dec 10 2006, 10:14 PM:name=Garet_Jax)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Garet_Jax @ Dec 10 2006, 10:14 PM) [snapback]1586584[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> MAEK ME PT I HAV 2GB RAM <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG ME 2
--Scythe--
P.S. Srsly. It's far more likely you'll become a PT by an invitation out of the blue. I don't think anyone's ever been brought on that specifically asked for it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Modern video and computer games take from one to three years to develop (depending on scale). Testing begins late in the development process, sometimes from halfway to 75% into development (it starts so late because, until then, there is little to nothing to test). Testers get new builds from the developers on a schedule (daily/weekly) and each version must be uniquely identified in order to map errors to versions.
Once the testers get a version, they begin playing the game. Testers must carefully note any errors they uncover. These may range from bugs to art glitches to logic errors and level bugs. Some bugs are easy to document ("Level 5 has a floor tile missing in the opening room"), but many are hard to describe and may take several paragraphs to describe so a developer can replicate or find the bug. On a large-scale game with numerous testers, a tester must first determine whether the bug has already been reported before they can log the bugs themselves. Once a bug has been reported as fixed, the tester has to go back and verify the fix works.
This type of "playing" is tedious and grueling. Usually an unfinished game is not fun to play, especially over and over. A tester may play the same game—or even the same level in a game—over and over for eight hours or more at a time. If testing feature fixes, the tester may have to repeat a large number of sequences just to get to one spot in the game. Understandably, burn-out is common in this field and many use the position just as a means to get a different job in game development. For this reason, game testing is widely considered a "stepping stone" position. This type of job may be taken by college students as a way to audit the industry and determine if it is the type of environment in which they wish to work professionally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most people need to consider the following things in this topic:
1.) There is a 0% chance you'll become playtester by begging. The only way you'll become one if to make yourself noticed by developers, and good luck trying that.
2.) Playtesting <b>ISN'T</b> always fun and games, especially when you're trying to uncover glitches.
Getting back onto topic although it would be a nice gesture for the developers allowing the consties to playtest I think they should still have a closed test beforehand with their current playtesters, as these guys have done it all before, have already shown the commitment needed and actually know what they're doing.
Whereas if they just did a massive open beta to the consties, a lot of people wouldn't really be interested in bug finding etc. and would just be playing the game rather than testing it.
NS2 will be UWE's first serious venture into the big boy's gaming world. They'll want everything to be professional. I don't think we (CMs) would be a good choice of PTs. There would certainly be leaks and "#I know something you don't know!#" posts.
That said, I don't see many alternatives. I doubt UWE has the funds to recruit proper game testers. I wouldn't mind re-joining the PT team if the PT group does get to test NS2- but who wouldn't?
Oh for the love of God don't distribute a play test version to a bunch of casual players. As if it hasn't been proven over and over and over and over and over in the source modding community, the MMO releases, and the gaming industry in general public beta's rip the crap out of the reputation of your title before it even gets off the ground. Keep your play testing team tight and controlled, full of highly respectable and professional players who know the game is going to be buggy and are people you can trust when they give you advice to fix something.
Play testers don't get to play a game early, they get to play a game before it's ready. If you grant access to people who aren't aware of the developmental and design consequences of what they are doing for your project access to your game they just end up spreading rumors about how ###### the game is. Never distribute playtesting slots as gifts or trade them off for some sort of contribution, and never give them to anyone in any way involved in media. Playtesting isn't a privilege, it's a responsibility.
The constellation is a little symbol that shows that you care enough about NS to have made a donation towards its continued development. Anything else is a bonus. It's possible that future semi-closed betas will be released to constie members first. It's also possible that this won't happen.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1583533:date=Dec 3 2006, 09:07 AM:name=Marik_Steele)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marik_Steele @ Dec 3 2006, 09:07 AM) [snapback]1583533[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If all of these things apply to you, then just be a friendly community member. There's probably as many "here's what I did to become a PT" stories as there are playtesters, so the next steps are all up to you. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This one time, at Band Camp....
I vote Sherpa for president, even if he has got a random forum name that seems to not be used by him anywhere else. Silly Jimbo.
I think the first 1050 members (those who are still active anyways) who signed on before the game was released should be considered.
*points at member number*
Please! It's the only chance I got! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" />
Many people here don't seem to understand that beta testing is generally not a fun thing. for those of you begging for it, understand that it is NOT by ANY MEANS a "free look" at the game before everyone else gets it. it is often irritating, frustrating and generally a pain in the ###### trying to pin down those elusive random bugs that just won't go away. You spend a lot of time looking at untextured test maps, placeholder models and error readouts, and even more time talking to Devs trying to work out whats wrong. You'll have folders full of time-stamped builds that you'll have to trawl through to backtrack a bug to its first appearance, this means hours of swapping out different builds, starting the game, loading a map, playing until it crashes, then repeating this for the last 3 weeks builds, then finally regressing to a 4-week old build most people have deleted because some new feature broke every other feature.
A good beta tester isn't necessarily one that is absolutely in love with the game and worships the developers, this kind of hero-worship can cloud your ability to nit-pick at the details that really do matter come release time. You need to be absolutely committed to the overall vision of the game, have the patience of a saint and a fair amount of spare time you're willing to throw at the game for little immediate return. Oh, and trust the devs, iirc dissent or splits in the ranks of beta testers as to the direction or implementation of a feature is a fast-track to getting yourself assed from the betas and/or derailing the dev cycle.
I had the honor of beta testing Frontline Force pre-V1 (with DOOManiac ADSQuirrel and a few others from this community, if memory serves) from some of the early betas right through to release; and believe me there is little more frustrating than getting a hastily written group email from a dev roughly describing a show-stopper bug that we need to track down the night before release day. It happens. On the flip side the satisfaction of knowing you have helped in some small way to deliver a solid, fun gaming experience to thousands of waiting fans (and at that point the FLF community was a fair chunk larger than NS is right now) is a great feeling indeed.
So quit begging and spamming the I&S forum, and trust in the devs to choose the people they think are suitable.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Pretty accurate Kaine...
<!--quoteo(post=1605724:date=Feb 12 2007, 08:53 AM:name=Kaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaine @ Feb 12 2007, 08:53 AM) [snapback]1605724[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A good beta tester isn't necessarily one that is absolutely in love with the game and worships the developers,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> We're in the love with the game, but familiarity breeds contempt, as they say. I'd say (without any basis) that I'd argue we might seem the worst to the Developer crew. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this kind of hero-worship can cloud your ability to nit-pick at the details that really do matter come release time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't panic, we're *good* at nit-picking <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You need to be absolutely committed to the overall vision of the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Check. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->, have the patience of a saint<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Damn right. (We don't, though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> ) <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and a fair amount of spare time you're willing to throw at the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, if only. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> for little immediate return.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm still waiting for my freebies, goddamnit! <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, and trust the devs, iirc dissent or splits in the ranks of beta testers as to the direction or implementation of a feature is a fast-track to getting yourself assed from the betas and/or derailing the dev cycle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, is that why that happens? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
In response to all the above statements, I have beta tested games. I'm not talking open betas either. I was beta testing LOTR online shadows of Angmar. I finished the first phase of the beta and have been reinvited to continue. Unfortunatly the game is really not my cup of tea, so maybe I'll install the new version but it's unlikely. However, I've always loved NS, so maybe I'll be biased, but only in a good way. I'll talk about features that I do not enjoy, maybe that wont fly but its what a tester should do.
Anyways thats my pitch, if it does not work, who cares? As long as I tried then I will be content. Who knows? Maybe I'll try out the new version of LOTR Online.
-EDIT-
I'll give my beta key for LOTR:O if you PM me, maybe.
<!--quoteo(post=1605724:date=Feb 12 2007, 03:53 AM:name=Kaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaine @ Feb 12 2007, 03:53 AM) [snapback]1605724[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Many people here don't seem to understand that beta testing is generally not a fun thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everything you said sounds familiar to me. Also as Harrower said, some people can enjoy it. Where can I subscribe? ^__^
If donating would buy you a ticket to beta testing I would definately donate! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1605145:date=Feb 9 2007, 06:50 PM:name=Llama_Killer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Llama_Killer @ Feb 9 2007, 06:50 PM) [snapback]1605145[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think the first 1050 members (those who are still active anyways) who signed on before the game was released should be considered. *points at member number*
Please! It's the only chance I got! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a great idea! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1585325:date=Dec 8 2006, 04:00 AM:name=glimmerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(glimmerman @ Dec 8 2006, 04:00 AM) [snapback]1585325[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> What about AUSTRALIAN beta testers, alot of the comminty live in aus. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
for sure <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
also we need to beta test so that our clans can be overseas clans as soon as the game is out....
also we need to beta test so that our clans can be overseas clans as soon as the game is out....
no seriously, the ns community in AUS is massive <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> there is/was PAPT for ns, but from what i've heard it's become rather stagnant. The competitive scene in ns is pretty dead though now in aus but quite a few people still hang around on irc or post crap on our forums at nsplayer.net
Comments
MAEK ME PT I HAV 2GB RAM
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG ME 2
--Scythe--
P.S. Srsly. It's far more likely you'll become a PT by an invitation out of the blue. I don't think anyone's ever been brought on that specifically asked for it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Modern video and computer games take from one to three years to develop (depending on scale). Testing begins late in the development process, sometimes from halfway to 75% into development (it starts so late because, until then, there is little to nothing to test). Testers get new builds from the developers on a schedule (daily/weekly) and each version must be uniquely identified in order to map errors to versions.
Once the testers get a version, they begin playing the game. Testers must carefully note any errors they uncover. These may range from bugs to art glitches to logic errors and level bugs. Some bugs are easy to document ("Level 5 has a floor tile missing in the opening room"), but many are hard to describe and may take several paragraphs to describe so a developer can replicate or find the bug. On a large-scale game with numerous testers, a tester must first determine whether the bug has already been reported before they can log the bugs themselves. Once a bug has been reported as fixed, the tester has to go back and verify the fix works.
This type of "playing" is tedious and grueling. Usually an unfinished game is not fun to play, especially over and over. A tester may play the same game—or even the same level in a game—over and over for eight hours or more at a time. If testing feature fixes, the tester may have to repeat a large number of sequences just to get to one spot in the game. Understandably, burn-out is common in this field and many use the position just as a means to get a different job in game development. For this reason, game testing is widely considered a "stepping stone" position. This type of job may be taken by college students as a way to audit the industry and determine if it is the type of environment in which they wish to work professionally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most people need to consider the following things in this topic:
1.) There is a 0% chance you'll become playtester by begging. The only way you'll become one if to make yourself noticed by developers, and good luck trying that.
2.) Playtesting <b>ISN'T</b> always fun and games, especially when you're trying to uncover glitches.
MAEK ME PT I HAV 2GB RAM
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
Getting back onto topic although it would be a nice gesture for the developers allowing the consties to playtest I think they should still have a closed test beforehand with their current playtesters, as these guys have done it all before, have already shown the commitment needed and actually know what they're doing.
Whereas if they just did a massive open beta to the consties, a lot of people wouldn't really be interested in bug finding etc. and would just be playing the game rather than testing it.
That said, I don't see many alternatives. I doubt UWE has the funds to recruit proper game testers. I wouldn't mind re-joining the PT team if the PT group does get to test NS2- but who wouldn't?
Play testers don't get to play a game early, they get to play a game before it's ready. If you grant access to people who aren't aware of the developmental and design consequences of what they are doing for your project access to your game they just end up spreading rumors about how ###### the game is. Never distribute playtesting slots as gifts or trade them off for some sort of contribution, and never give them to anyone in any way involved in media. Playtesting isn't a privilege, it's a responsibility.
--Scythe--
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This one time, at Band Camp....
I vote Sherpa for president, even if he has got a random forum name that seems to not be used by him anywhere else. Silly Jimbo.
- Shockwave
*points at member number*
Please! It's the only chance I got! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" />
A good beta tester isn't necessarily one that is absolutely in love with the game and worships the developers, this kind of hero-worship can cloud your ability to nit-pick at the details that really do matter come release time. You need to be absolutely committed to the overall vision of the game, have the patience of a saint and a fair amount of spare time you're willing to throw at the game for little immediate return. Oh, and trust the devs, iirc dissent or splits in the ranks of beta testers as to the direction or implementation of a feature is a fast-track to getting yourself assed from the betas and/or derailing the dev cycle.
I had the honor of beta testing Frontline Force pre-V1 (with DOOManiac ADSQuirrel and a few others from this community, if memory serves) from some of the early betas right through to release; and believe me there is little more frustrating than getting a hastily written group email from a dev roughly describing a show-stopper bug that we need to track down the night before release day. It happens. On the flip side the satisfaction of knowing you have helped in some small way to deliver a solid, fun gaming experience to thousands of waiting fans (and at that point the FLF community was a fair chunk larger than NS is right now) is a great feeling indeed.
So quit begging and spamming the I&S forum, and trust in the devs to choose the people they think are suitable.
<!--quoteo(post=1605724:date=Feb 12 2007, 08:53 AM:name=Kaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kaine @ Feb 12 2007, 08:53 AM) [snapback]1605724[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A good beta tester isn't necessarily one that is absolutely in love with the game and worships the developers,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're in the love with the game, but familiarity breeds contempt, as they say. I'd say (without any basis) that I'd argue we might seem the worst to the Developer crew. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this kind of hero-worship can cloud your ability to nit-pick at the details that really do matter come release time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't panic, we're *good* at nit-picking
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You need to be absolutely committed to the overall vision of the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Check.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->, have the patience of a saint<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn right. (We don't, though. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> )
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and a fair amount of spare time you're willing to throw at the game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, if only.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> for little immediate return.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm still waiting for my freebies, goddamnit!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, and trust the devs, iirc dissent or splits in the ranks of beta testers as to the direction or implementation of a feature is a fast-track to getting yourself assed from the betas and/or derailing the dev cycle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, is that why that happens? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
- Shockwave
Anyways thats my pitch, if it does not work, who cares? As long as I tried then I will be content. Who knows? Maybe I'll try out the new version of LOTR Online.
-EDIT-
I'll give my beta key for LOTR:O if you PM me, maybe.
Many people here don't seem to understand that beta testing is generally not a fun thing.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Everything you said sounds familiar to me. Also as Harrower said, some people can enjoy it. Where can I subscribe? ^__^
- Garo
I think the first 1050 members (those who are still active anyways) who signed on before the game was released should be considered.
*points at member number*
Please! It's the only chance I got! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a great idea! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
What about AUSTRALIAN beta testers, alot of the comminty live in aus.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
for sure <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
also we need to beta test so that our clans can be overseas clans as soon as the game is out....
no seriously, the ns community in AUS is massive
How much would you need to pay to become a playtester? A developer?
for sure <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
also we need to beta test so that our clans can be overseas clans as soon as the game is out....
no seriously, the ns community in AUS is massive
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
there is/was PAPT for ns, but from what i've heard it's become rather stagnant. The competitive scene in ns is pretty dead though now in aus but quite a few people still hang around on irc or post crap on our forums at nsplayer.net