Creating NS 3.x map with 3d max possible ?
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Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6944Members
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6944Members
<div class="IPBDescription">import it with 3rd party tool into a compilable ZHLT map</div>Has someone found a way to create a map using 3d max and then either save it or export it so that a 3rd party tool could then incorporate it into a compilable ZHLT map for NS 3.x ?
Same question applies to NS2 or NS:Source.
Same question applies to NS2 or NS:Source.
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Although you'll probably need an older version of max and have to fix the maps in hammer for several hours after you have the basic geometry so that it'll even compile. Oh yea, you'll also most likely have to texture it in hammer as well. You'll have to use the same build process as you would in another map editor, that is create brushes, you can't make just faces and what not and you have to make sure that what you create brush wise will also be creatable in hammer, no fancy geometry,
THe Q3 compiler has been pushed prety far into what it can do. I used to use it but I have never used the ZHLT nor know what it can do.
How about NS:SOurce or NS2 ?
Can something less messy can be done ?
Max
This is something that I've been experimenting with, since I think using <b>maya</b> in conjunction with Hammer could allow you do do some more powerfu things with displacement surfaces and brush geometry in general. If I make any more progress on this I'll be sure to post about it in the blog.
Max
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fixed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
No really, even I'd learn max if it meant I had to use hammer less. I haven't used any level editors aside from hammer so I don't have anything to compare it to, but boy... it feels like it was designed during the stone age.
Edit: MMM makes me think NS in real lego <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Hammer is good for relatively low detail brush work, which makes it great for Half-Life era maps. Though it is terrible for current gen because it isn't suited to making high poly environments. That and the current displacement editting sucks (oh god its terrible *crys inconsolably*)
Hammer is good for relatively low detail brush work, which makes it great for Half-Life era maps. Though it is terrible for current gen because it isn't suited to making high poly environments. That and the current displacement editting sucks (oh god its terrible *crys inconsolably*)
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I agree that the displacement tools are pretty rough. But the nice thing about displacement surfaces is that they don't have the same drawbacks that brush work has in terms of adding complexity to the BSP tree. The tools are ok for doing something like terrain, but I think the displacement surfaces could be used for all kinds of things like curved surfaces and more complex shapes.
So my idea was that you would do most of the map creation in Hammer, then import your VMF in 3D Studio MAX. In 3D Studio MAX you could monkey around with the displacement surfaces (and possibly the brushes) and then export back out to VMF.
I created a basic importer/exporter that works with simple brushes (which I just convert to editable polys), but I haven't figured out what the best way to represent displacement surfaces in MAX. I sort of want to use editable polys for those, but taking the editable poly and recovering enough information to export to the VMF may not work well. My other alternative was to create a 3D Studio MAX object plugin that is a Hammer displacement surface, but this is a bunch more work and doesn't leverage the existing modeling tools as well. If anybody has any ideas I'd be happy to hear them.
Max
I'm not sure, but I think I saw somewhere (propably on Interlopers) some kind of external displacement tool. But I don't know how powerfull is. Anyone had experience with it ?
About 3Dmax, I really don't have money to buy it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> And I think that Source really can't draw complex world geometry created in 3Dmax. And if yes then Vvis will takes days to compile.
The way is make simple brushwork and detail it with props and displacement. But maybe I'm wrong and you will find another way.
I hope you understood, my english really awfull
PS: Is really nice see a developer discussing in Mapping forum
Edit: Providing you can get a .vmf importer for max, you should beable to model it in max, then texture, light and entity work in hammer.
Ydnar doesn't work on Q3MAP2 since Sept-2005. He took the ID Software plain Q3MAP and modified it so much that it is miles away from the original Q3MAP tool. He worked on fixing ligthings and incorporated tuns of new possibilities.
By now, I think the Q3MAP2 compiling tools should be available in source. It uses the same principle of compiling as ZHLT (bsp, vis, ...).
<b>After all, if NS2 is going to be a new evolutionary step, then I certainly hope it will not rely on old compiling tools or old map editors. If the structural side of NS2 is going to be more complicated to achieve a more astounding look, then I belive that it will go behond the need of pre-historic tools. Maybe create its own compiling tools and editor ? I don't know. Think about it. Think about what implies the new direction of NS games into what they want to acheive. How are they going to acheive it effortlessly with as little pain as possible so that us, the NS community will be able to add contents to it to make is the best FPS games possible (isn't it what all game creators want after all ?).
If the country plans on building better roads, roads that no one has ever seen, then the first thing they will have to look at is : can we do it with our current equipement/tools and keep doing it or will we have to create new ones to ease this task and for as long as it takes ?</b>
The 'Ydnar' idea really isn't beneficial for HL1 NS although if someone has the time to make it their hobby to improve HL2 RAD compiling it would be extremely beneficial for making NS2 environments looking tip-top.
For the nature of the engine, game and development in terms of finance it is completely impracticle and far too expensive to explore further environment creating editors for NS2.
The 'Ydnar' idea really isn't beneficial for HL1 NS although if someone has the time to make it their hobby to improve HL2 RAD compiling it would be extremely beneficial for making NS2 environments looking tip-top.
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Thx
I just want what's best for the game and thinking at the same time for the NS community. Increase quality and ease of community content at the same time. I love NS !!! I would be happy to help in anyway I can but unfortunetly, I am lacking free time. If it was up to me, I would do it and help you guys but , snif,snif,snif, I can't (for the moment)
My Ydnar idea is to simply incorporate into the HL compiling tool a mean to incorporate an external structure file that could be exported from any 3d advanced tool like 3d max, Maya, ...
ZHLT 3.4 has been released in Jan-2006 and maintained by <a href="http://ammahls.com/" target="_blank">http://ammahls.com/</a>
<a href="http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Using_Bspzip_to_Embed_Custom_Content" target="_blank">http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Us..._Custom_Content</a>
OR
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/cofrdrbob/pakrat.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/cofrdrbob/pakrat.html</a>
Source:
<a href="http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Using_Bspzip_to_Embed_Custom_Content" target="_blank">http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Us..._Custom_Content</a>
OR
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/cofrdrbob/pakrat.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/cofrdrbob/pakrat.html</a>
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I am not sure I fully understand these links as they seam to be means of importing/exporting to/from the BSP file. I mean including external structure files inside the map and be able to compile that map.
If anyone is aware of these 2 tool links, please explain if they apply to what I meant.
<a href="http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Converting_brush_structures_in_your_map_into_a_prop_static_with_XSI_Mod_Tool" target="_blank">http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Co...th_XSI_Mod_Tool</a>
Havn't tried it myself, but my understanding of it from reading that is:
You can make a pre-fab in hammer, load it in xsi and edit it like a proper model and then put it back into hammer again as a prop.
I don't know if you can do something like a room in that manner or how good of an editor xsi is, but it might be worth taking a further look at
As Kat pointed out in a <a href="http://www.quake3bits.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=8;r=1" target="_blank">thread of mine at Quake3bits </a> :
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From the point of view of what you can do with Q3map2 now, pretty much anything goes. That's the short version.
The long version is this.
In accordance with the GPL of both Q3map2 and (GTK) Radiant the code for both can be used in both commercial and non-commercial projects. That providing the source code is used 'as is'; i.e. no modifications have been done to it whatsoever.
If modifications to the source code are required then you have two options
1) When the project is published, alongside that all modifications carried out on either/or/both Radiant and Q3map2 must be released with the projects content as part of the project itself (as far as I know, you can release a project and then release the source code modifications at a later point as an SDK).
2) Licence Q3map2 and/or Radiant. This is effect grants you commercial exploitation rights over the code for both tools allowing you to, in effect, do what ever you want/need without being required to distribute the modifications made.
As it sounds like you may be talking about a potential commercial project it'd probably be wise to contact toddh[X]@[X]idsoftware[X].com (I think that's his mail - remove the [X] obviously!) and quiz over this for clarification if required. In essence though what's been said above should stand as relatively 'correct'.
I'm not sure about where the source code for Q3map2 is but your best bet would be to mooch around the qeradiant web site and see if you can find anything; I do know they have Radiant source code available there so you may be able to find Q3m2's as well.
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Now if someone knowing ZHLT programming can take a look at the <a href="https://zerowing.idsoftware.com/svn/radiant/GtkRadiant/trunk/tools/quake3/q3map2/convert_ase.c" target="_blank">ASE code portion </a> and tell us if it is feasable, it would help to decide if this thread is worth the effort or not. I would but do not have enough time.
[added comment]
Looks like the ASE link I gave is more about an exporter then importer. I know its in the source code somewhere. Probably in a less obvious naming convention.
<a href="https://zerowing.idsoftware.com/svn/radiant/GtkRadiant/trunk/tools/quake3/q3map2/changelog.q3map2.txt" target="_blank">Maybe this would help to understand what Q3MAP2 can do</a>.
<b>P.S. : Whomever uses the Q3MAP2 code, be sure to not go against any copyrights. Do not simply copy/paste, learn, understand and add your own code.</b>