About Circumn: <a href="http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nsmachina0001xz5.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7185/nsmachina0001xz5.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a> As you can see, marine can use the small border.
Also, i don't like a res node only reserved to marine (the one in Circumn). Change it so that alien can use it, even is the marine don't weld the thing.
Yeah you're probably right about Ceti noon, it would require a lot of work. It was just an idea that popped into my head while i was trying to figure how to make the map easier to navigate and to learn. But yeah, it would be a major change to do.
About signs: Why not? I wish i had a gorge pet! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> But seriously, yep it would probably help. I'm unsure something subconscious would work but it's worth a try. Maybe bright func_illusionaries set on distort with a custom texture of the "logo" of the ship? A big classy "M" in a circle or something. You could put one in MS too, and in the RR, just an idea. Hmm that would cost ~10 entities or so. :/
Good thing about the replacing of the lift in snake's body, i think it will greatly improve the flow in that area. I hope the new slope doesn't look too "out of place". Can't wait to see the kharaas in top hats, hehe.
I'll try to keep in mind you prefer quick fixes in my feedback & suggestions from now on. I know mapping is very time-consuming and i guess/hope your other engagements implies a source map for NS2. So it's ok <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Oh and nice changes at turning point. While you're at it and if it isnt done already, consider toning down the bright yellow lighting in "otherside". It has no apparent light source and while i'm in there im so blinded by the level of lighting that i can't even see my hud anymore, especialy when playing aliens.
Ok, some more comments below;
Tau ceti hive: Not much to say there. Good cover for aliens, good siege locations. Ceti rising might even be a too good siege location as there is no vent leading there. Perhaps adding a vent like the one in Ceti noon? Some more minor things; - The vent entrance going from the hive to ceti noon is somewhat hard to notice with the infestation texture, maybe a simple red light_strip2-b there would help? - On the south wall of the hive/ceti rising you have a long trim with that same texture (light_strip2-b) ending abruptly near the east wall of the hive, stretch and/or align it? Minors things i know but hey, i think it would polish it up a bit and that's quick to do.
Ceti rising: Well, a rather simple area. Apart from the above vent suggestion i don't see anything wrong with it. Could use a bit more details if you have the time and the w_polys to spare but it's "ok" as it is, flows well. "Pepper seasoning", heh.
The pit: Ah. The famous pit. I could see it as a good reloc spot with a node and in short distance of two hives. I'm not sure as there is a lot of cover in there, wich favors aliens, we'll see while playing the map more. I think BigD is right about the lifts. I wonder how the area will feel like with the new slope leading to snake's body, so i can't comment much.
The approach: Another simple but easy to learn area. Little bland. Nice vents up there, good spot to bile bomb a siege, etc. Took me a while to notice the unlit short straight vent on the east part of the ceiling.
Mausoleum hive: It looks like it's fine. There are a few hom's but they are so small its hardly noticeable (Small triangles where the pipes connect with the wall_grey03 textures). You're probably letting a 1 unit gap there to prevent face splitting, but i wonder what are those hidden squarish hom's doing there. I mean, the null texture is supposed to be on the pipe itself where it is "cut", and not on those wall_grey03 textures, right? Maybe i'm missing something, anyway it's a minor issue. On the west ramp leading to ante/crater south, one of the railing is no clip, and the inclined one on the ramp is clipping but sticks out of the slope, water side, wich is annoying for a skulk willing to ambush from that little corner. I will provide a screenshot if you don't understand what i mean.
Ante/Crater south - Destroyer: West side, you have a slope, but on the east there are stairs. I find them slightly annoying to bhop there as a skulk. Maybe using a slope there too? I like the vent down there leading into Mausoleum. But, and i'll be touching the hot subject of pits-of-doom; When coming from down there blinking as a fade for example, there are borders sticking out wich are parts of the walkway with the flr_greygrate2 texture. Those are annoying if you fell and try to get back up, especialy as a blinking fade. Just so you know my opinion about the pits-of-doom, i think they should stay. If you fall and you can't go back up, you die. Such is natural-selection. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> It's the same for everyone. But little tweaks like removing those edges may help so players accept the map. Like the "safety nets" you've been adding.
<!--quoteo(post=1583810:date=Dec 3 2006, 09:11 PM:name=TMMDarwin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TMMDarwin @ Dec 3 2006, 09:11 PM) [snapback]1583810[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The pit is awesome. People suck. I've yet to see a skilled player die other than the one elvator incident and one occassion where my skulk did a dive in after a marine so I could get my para kill before he hit bottom. Ledges might eliminate the fear somewhat but there's no real problem here that I can see. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You must not have read my post and you must not know anything about skilled players... either that or most just totally avoid that area like I now do.
Im just tring to help him out by keeping this map from getting the same feeling everyone has about other maps that rarely get played.
Death holes can be fun (ns_nothing, ns_hera) but when they're the size of Texas and close to critical areas (pg and seige locations) it becomes a game breaker.
What area? The siege spot north of Mausoleum? That's about the worst for giant pit-o-doom in a siege/pg location that I'd say. (I-mines has some holes, but they are small and out of the way enough.) A ledge in there might help if people really think it is a problem. Really though, nub fades such as myself should be the only ones having trouble there. Even then, the area is wide enough that a person ought to have the sense to stay the heck away from the freakin' hole anyway. I'd be interested to see how it plays along though.
Of course, the pit-o-doom in generator of ns_nothing was removed because people kept falling into it or something silly... :p
<!--quoteo(post=1584693:date=Dec 6 2006, 03:35 AM:name=Merkaba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Merkaba @ Dec 6 2006, 03:35 AM) [snapback]1584693[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> The next version of machina will be a LOT more forgiving regarding the pits'o'death. Railings & ledges to land on really help! <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank god. I think i wasted 6-7 fades during one round on the pits of death (my only fade-deaths during the game...). If you're hitting MS as a fade and want to take the right exit (looking over MS from the CC's perspective) with a good hmger aiming at you then the pit of death there will own you. That turn is really hard to make blinking full-speed, which often results in falling down dying stupidly. Ledges sound good.
I think as a whole the map plays a lot better. We saw last night that both marines and aliens are able to dominate the map.
I had a gripe, which Shotgun-Ed has shared also, that the marine start layout is slightly awkward. For example you are restricted on the area you can place ips - PG always goes nearish the ips, but you also want it near the beacon spawn points, which are currently the other side from the comm chair and ips.
<!--quoteo(post=1583910:date=Dec 3 2006, 10:04 PM:name=TMMDarwin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TMMDarwin @ Dec 3 2006, 10:04 PM) [snapback]1583910[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I just think they're wrong and you should scoff at them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have yet to have a single problem with the pit, regardless of lifeform or upgrade. Its a hole, BE CAREFUL.
theres no issue with the pit infact sulks fades lurk jp should have a feild day in this map LOVE IT
ok ram door from arival on to controls i think it is, yeah love the door but it has some cliping issue when open in the door jig
i think the res node in elquil with the weld spot i think that needs the unbuild texture around it removed so aliens can cap it for a res node that ether A need rines to weld to build the cap or B a gorge to waste a gorge and force rines to shoot it down untill they can weld it seams like a fair trade off
love the additional weld point
it just seams to me you built quite a bit of the map around rines takeing the weird relo elevator crossing the semo flating pit area, cuting into that hive blocking it off and welding quike acess thru to equil
but i guess this works out when the entire map is heavly based to suit alien needs and i love that about this map never have i seen a map so friendly to aliens
all hte vent vent holes pocket segments in walls taken out little high ways suited purly for alien movement and navigation
aliens work best when they can move up to a close point and stay hidden as other team mates move up to close points and stay hidden
rines hate it little moveing blips surounding them each one once in position disapears off motion and thre nothing they can do the slience quikens over them the odd chuckle rolls out of the vents all angles the blips apear rapidly new blips on the move from distance un known, in a normal map its back to courner guns blazeing in machina, your skrewed you dont know which way to turn
there a infestation patch in a door area near a hive, its a block of 100% infestation blocking on of hte doors into that room it looks so out of place
also the switch on the huge walk way for the relo elvator i dont know why or how but every time i pushed it as a alien it flaged the alien res node in power turn as being under attack, note the elevator started up top in the rine start area this time around hopefully your recent fixes have elminated that issue
hum i think safty nets would be good at the pit, but they are not nessacery
this map has a unknown walk way feel, it seams very star warish even tho thats not trying to be achived
oh and as a hint, spray paint still exsists, it't nothing to walk around with a red can of spray paint and rapildy bleed beed effect blood colored no signals over a hive or xenomorphere like image raipidly at marine hights to signafy soon to enter alien infested area's
i dont know ill have to have a few more goes at it, and yes the ready room need fixing
Sorry to bring up and old-ish post but me and a friend were exploring the 3.2 maps for ambush spots, relo spots etc... and also bugs.
Here are a few things we came up with:
#1 Weldable stairs: you can jump on the edges when not welded #2 Red lights (Routing): straifing on the wall makes you jump #3 Angles Grave Hive: Weldable doors can be biled through #4 Marine Start: Lift works and sometimes doesnt. #5 Crater: Vents leading into "Crater" (from the hive etc) should be a little bigger #5 Marine Start: Floor texture doesnt really suit
Sorry if these have already been suggested.
Good points.
The oily water. Double barred door; Sick "lift" @ rine start; and A whole lot of other stuff that I will take too long to write.
Thanks again, I think most of those problems have been fixed in the next build, but some I shall investigate <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Comments
<a href="http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nsmachina0001xz5.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7185/nsmachina0001xz5.th.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" /></a>
As you can see, marine can use the small border.
Also, i don't like a res node only reserved to marine (the one in Circumn). Change it so that alien can use it, even is the marine don't weld the thing.
About signs: Why not? I wish i had a gorge pet! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> But seriously, yep it would probably help. I'm unsure something subconscious would work but it's worth a try. Maybe bright func_illusionaries set on distort with a custom texture of the "logo" of the ship? A big classy "M" in a circle or something. You could put one in MS too, and in the RR, just an idea. Hmm that would cost ~10 entities or so. :/
Good thing about the replacing of the lift in snake's body, i think it will greatly improve the flow in that area. I hope the new slope doesn't look too "out of place". Can't wait to see the kharaas in top hats, hehe.
I'll try to keep in mind you prefer quick fixes in my feedback & suggestions from now on. I know mapping is very time-consuming and i guess/hope your other engagements implies a source map for NS2. So it's ok <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Oh and nice changes at turning point. While you're at it and if it isnt done already, consider toning down the bright yellow lighting in "otherside". It has no apparent light source and while i'm in there im so blinded by the level of lighting that i can't even see my hud anymore, especialy when playing aliens.
Ok, some more comments below;
Tau ceti hive: Not much to say there. Good cover for aliens, good siege locations. Ceti rising might even be a too good siege location as there is no vent leading there. Perhaps adding a vent like the one in Ceti noon? Some more minor things; - The vent entrance going from the hive to ceti noon is somewhat hard to notice with the infestation texture, maybe a simple red light_strip2-b there would help? - On the south wall of the hive/ceti rising you have a long trim with that same texture (light_strip2-b) ending abruptly near the east wall of the hive, stretch and/or align it? Minors things i know but hey, i think it would polish it up a bit and that's quick to do.
Ceti rising: Well, a rather simple area. Apart from the above vent suggestion i don't see anything wrong with it. Could use a bit more details if you have the time and the w_polys to spare but it's "ok" as it is, flows well. "Pepper seasoning", heh.
The pit: Ah. The famous pit. I could see it as a good reloc spot with a node and in short distance of two hives. I'm not sure as there is a lot of cover in there, wich favors aliens, we'll see while playing the map more. I think BigD is right about the lifts. I wonder how the area will feel like with the new slope leading to snake's body, so i can't comment much.
The approach: Another simple but easy to learn area. Little bland. Nice vents up there, good spot to bile bomb a siege, etc. Took me a while to notice the unlit short straight vent on the east part of the ceiling.
Mausoleum hive: It looks like it's fine. There are a few hom's but they are so small its hardly noticeable (Small triangles where the pipes connect with the wall_grey03 textures). You're probably letting a 1 unit gap there to prevent face splitting, but i wonder what are those hidden squarish hom's doing there. I mean, the null texture is supposed to be on the pipe itself where it is "cut", and not on those wall_grey03 textures, right? Maybe i'm missing something, anyway it's a minor issue. On the west ramp leading to ante/crater south, one of the railing is no clip, and the inclined one on the ramp is clipping but sticks out of the slope, water side, wich is annoying for a skulk willing to ambush from that little corner. I will provide a screenshot if you don't understand what i mean.
Ante/Crater south - Destroyer: West side, you have a slope, but on the east there are stairs. I find them slightly annoying to bhop there as a skulk. Maybe using a slope there too? I like the vent down there leading into Mausoleum. But, and i'll be touching the hot subject of pits-of-doom; When coming from down there blinking as a fade for example, there are borders sticking out wich are parts of the walkway with the flr_greygrate2 texture. Those are annoying if you fell and try to get back up, especialy as a blinking fade. Just so you know my opinion about the pits-of-doom, i think they should stay. If you fall and you can't go back up, you die. Such is natural-selection. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> It's the same for everyone. But little tweaks like removing those edges may help so players accept the map. Like the "safety nets" you've been adding.
That is all for today.
The pit is awesome. People suck. I've yet to see a skilled player die other than the one elvator incident and one occassion where my skulk did a dive in after a marine so I could get my para kill before he hit bottom. Ledges might eliminate the fear somewhat but there's no real problem here that I can see.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must not have read my post and you must not know anything about skilled players... either that or most just totally avoid that area like I now do.
Im just tring to help him out by keeping this map from getting the same feeling everyone has about other maps that rarely get played.
Death holes can be fun (ns_nothing, ns_hera) but when they're the size of Texas and close to critical areas (pg and seige locations) it becomes a game breaker.
Of course, the pit-o-doom in generator of ns_nothing was removed because people kept falling into it or something silly... :p
The next version of machina will be a LOT more forgiving regarding the pits'o'death. Railings & ledges to land on really help!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank god. I think i wasted 6-7 fades during one round on the pits of death (my only fade-deaths during the game...). If you're hitting MS as a fade and want to take the right exit (looking over MS from the CC's perspective) with a good hmger aiming at you then the pit of death there will own you. That turn is really hard to make blinking full-speed, which often results in falling down dying stupidly. Ledges sound good.
I had a gripe, which Shotgun-Ed has shared also, that the marine start layout is slightly awkward. For example you are restricted on the area you can place ips - PG always goes nearish the ips, but you also want it near the beacon spawn points, which are currently the other side from the comm chair and ips.
I just think they're wrong and you should scoff at them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have yet to have a single problem with the pit, regardless of lifeform or upgrade. Its a hole, BE CAREFUL.
LOVE IT
ok ram door from arival on to controls i think it is, yeah love the door but it has some cliping issue when open in the door jig
i think the res node in elquil with the weld spot i think that needs the unbuild texture around it removed so aliens can cap it for a res node that ether A need rines to weld to build the cap or B a gorge to waste a gorge and force rines to shoot it down untill they can weld it seams like a fair trade off
love the additional weld point
it just seams to me you built quite a bit of the map around rines takeing the weird relo elevator crossing the semo flating pit area, cuting into that hive blocking it off and welding quike acess thru to equil
but i guess this works out when the entire map is heavly based to suit alien needs and i love that about this map never have i seen a map so friendly to aliens
all hte vent vent holes pocket segments in walls taken out little high ways suited purly for alien movement and navigation
aliens work best when they can move up to a close point and stay hidden as other team mates move up to close points and stay hidden
rines hate it little moveing blips surounding them each one once in position disapears off motion and thre nothing they can do the slience quikens over them the odd chuckle rolls out of the vents
all angles the blips apear rapidly new blips on the move from distance un known, in a normal map its back to courner guns blazeing in machina, your skrewed you dont know which way to turn
there a infestation patch in a door area near a hive, its a block of 100% infestation blocking on of hte doors into that room it looks so out of place
also the switch on the huge walk way for the relo elvator i dont know why or how but every time i pushed it as a alien it flaged the alien res node in power turn as being under attack, note the elevator started up top in the rine start area this time around hopefully your recent fixes have elminated that issue
hum i think safty nets would be good at the pit, but they are not nessacery
this map has a unknown walk way feel, it seams very star warish even tho thats not trying to be achived
oh and as a hint, spray paint still exsists, it't nothing to walk around with a red can of spray paint and rapildy bleed beed effect blood colored no signals over a hive or xenomorphere like image raipidly at marine hights to signafy soon to enter alien infested area's
i dont know ill have to have a few more goes at it, and yes the ready room need fixing
: )
Here are a few things we came up with:
#1 Weldable stairs: you can jump on the edges when not welded
#2 Red lights (Routing): straifing on the wall makes you jump
#3 Angles Grave Hive: Weldable doors can be biled through
#4 Marine Start: Lift works and sometimes doesnt.
#5 Crater: Vents leading into "Crater" (from the hive etc) should be a little bigger
#5 Marine Start: Floor texture doesnt really suit
Sorry if these have already been suggested.
Good points.
The oily water.
Double barred door;
Sick "lift" @ rine start; and
A whole lot of other stuff that I will take too long to write.