i've never actually worked out how the aliens can take out my turret factories so easily despite them being so heavily reinforced.. then again, whenever i play as alien i never encounter such a heavily fortified and organised outpost as the ones i can put up. meh.
another point i agree on is that when the aliens dig in and spam out the offense/defense chambers it's still quite easy for the marines to pop it. siege cannons, gren launchers, to say the least. Marines can easily get this equipment by just camping for a bit, letting the resources build up and then splashing out with some hi-tech equipment. This can still be done by a marine base only holding one or two resource points. However, on the other hand, if the aliens have one hive.. (doesn't matter how many resource points), they just simply can't fend off attacks. Sure you can spam out the offense/defense chambers, but they won't stop that siege cannon.. or the gren launchers. This raises a good question, how on earth do you make it "easier" for a losing alien team to actually win... and do they deserve it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> The opposite to this, making a losing marine team end up winning.. i've done that before. Somehow held off three rushing onos' and expanded slowly and methodically to eventually win the game. Note.. i built a LOT of cannons (both normal and siege). The marines on my team kinda blessed me as the best commander ever.. yayyy praise!
It's hard to "play the damn game" when you can't catch up to the Marines as Aliens because there's Siege Turrets nailing your Hives as you try to build them.
Especially when they don't even have to be IN the Hive room to stop the Hive being built...
Here's another idea I've seem being throwing around matches these days.... in order for a Siege cannon to attack structures, a beacon of some sort is require to be planted on the structure. So, to destory a Hive with a Siege Cannon, you'll still need to have people go in to plant the device. And if the Alien team is skilled enough they can still safe their hive from being bombarded by the Seige cannon. And each beacon only lasts for about 30 seconds to 1 min and about 30 dollars And takes about 5 to 10 seconds to plant it onto a structure.
And how about lets take it one step further and let the beacon to be able to placed anywhere on the map. And once it's planeted the Siege cannon thats nearest to it's location will be continuing bombard the location til the timer runs out.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
Jeez, people .. when playing alien, my team wins 4 times out of five. I've seen an offensive gorge put down an OC and a few DC's in the chamber next to the marine chamber .. with 6 lurks rotating into the marine chamber taking random bites out of everything then going back to heal, the game was over five minutes later.
The siege cannon is just fine. If the marines manage to place one close enough to an alien hive to take it out, it's either because they are playing brilliantly or the aliens are being very ... inefficient. Usually the latter.
Siege cannon is necessary for the marine defense (even of their outposts), because otherwise a gorge will build a couple of defense chambers close by, then switch to skulk or fade and just overrun the base ... turrets take a long time to take out a moving skulk. Once you get two hives. leap and celerity, no turret can even touch you unless you want to.
Another idea would be to nerf the Siege Turrets and make a handheld weapon (rocket launcher? explosive slugthrower? sonic gun? radiation gun?) that would be most effective against buildings and mostly harmless against alien players. My favourite would be a rad gun (aliens can survive it, but it irradiates buildings to death) but a rocket launcher in NS would r00l too.
However, when I play alien, STurrets are a nuisance but not totally unfair. I agree that, currently, nerfing Marine stuff is out of the question, but change is good... well, <i>good</i> change anyways. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I would tottally disagree against buying ammo for turrets a. it's lame b. it's lame c. i'm an alien player myself d. human's resources are stretched like *beep!*
Tonite i had a good game on Misfires server as aliens on the map with Mess Hall (dunno the map name).
We built up a HUGE turret pile and maxed out the numbers of offensive chambers and defensive (around 7 per chamber type i guess, eventho that seems to differ from place to place). Because they build up a siege gun nearby to take out the turrets i built any defense chamber that wud fit into the pile. Then the marines opened the door with the switch and gegan firing with grenades and HMGs. Meanwhile they already had 3 <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> setup nearby to shoot at that pile. You wudnt believe that we managed to keep that pile alive seemingly for ever. I was a gorge and constantly built new towers when one has been destoryed. I didnt even die from the siege gun. So they kept sieging our turret pile and constant spammed it with grenades and HMG fire. All the aliens nearby were shooting at them as well. So they didnt have an easy time shooting thru that door, dodging out turret and alien fire. It was so freakin fun! The defensive chambers seemed to do a good job with healing the turrets that had been damaged. And if one died i built a new one. \o/ The commander was also constantly dropping ammo and health on the marines. They just didnt manage to take out the turret pile.
What then happened surprised me. After about 5 minutes of the mentioned situation the map changed....duh. When aliens are desperately and half-successfully trying to kill the final enemy base i have never seen a mapchange. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I was curious of how long we cud have kept that position.
But such great turret piles require that there are no other turrets built nearby, or the turret restriction wud disallow to build the most possible amount of turrets on one spot. You know what i mean.
In general its advisable to build all the turrets to secure a hive and such at the entraces. Build 3 next to each other in the corridors and then stack the rest on those 3. Your alien mates still can get thru the "wall" of turrets. Behind those offensive chambers you build a row of defense chambers. Both types maxed out of course. That will keep them off for a long time.
Yes i think thats the best idea till now. Make the siege turret and manned building. And make it so it must be reloaded manually by pressing use for 10 seconds after 10 rounds have been fired.
This way marines cannot build many of them because they lack of the players. And also it makes them need to attend to the outpost containing the siege gun. A guy in a siege turret is an easy target. So 1 or 2 mates shud watch him while firing at the alien buildings.
The question is: How does the siege gun controller TARGET a building?
<!--QuoteBegin--BigEyeGuy+Nov 9 2002, 09:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BigEyeGuy @ Nov 9 2002, 09:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nah the game is perfect now leave it my aliens are winning<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
another point i agree on is that when the aliens dig in and spam out the offense/defense chambers it's still quite easy for the marines to pop it. siege cannons, gren launchers, to say the least. Marines can easily get this equipment by just camping for a bit, letting the resources build up and then splashing out with some hi-tech equipment. This can still be done by a marine base only holding one or two resource points. However, on the other hand, if the aliens have one hive.. (doesn't matter how many resource points), they just simply can't fend off attacks. Sure you can spam out the offense/defense chambers, but they won't stop that siege cannon.. or the gren launchers.
This raises a good question, how on earth do you make it "easier" for a losing alien team to actually win... and do they deserve it? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
The opposite to this, making a losing marine team end up winning.. i've done that before. Somehow held off three rushing onos' and expanded slowly and methodically to eventually win the game. Note.. i built a LOT of cannons (both normal and siege). The marines on my team kinda blessed me as the best commander ever.. yayyy praise!
Especially when they don't even have to be IN the Hive room to stop the Hive being built...
And how about lets take it one step further and let the beacon to be able to placed anywhere on the map. And once it's planeted the Siege cannon thats nearest to it's location will be continuing bombard the location til the timer runs out.
<!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> ____________________ <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> __________ <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
The siege cannon is just fine. If the marines manage to place one close enough to an alien hive to take it out, it's either because they are playing brilliantly or the aliens are being very ... inefficient. Usually the latter.
Siege cannon is necessary for the marine defense (even of their outposts), because otherwise a gorge will build a couple of defense chambers close by, then switch to skulk or fade and just overrun the base ... turrets take a long time to take out a moving skulk. Once you get two hives. leap and celerity, no turret can even touch you unless you want to.
However, when I play alien, STurrets are a nuisance but not totally unfair. I agree that, currently, nerfing Marine stuff is out of the question, but change is good... well, <i>good</i> change anyways. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
a. it's lame
b. it's lame
c. i'm an alien player myself
d. human's resources are stretched like *beep!*
Tonite i had a good game on Misfires server as aliens on the map with Mess Hall (dunno the map name).
We built up a HUGE turret pile and maxed out the numbers of offensive chambers and defensive (around 7 per chamber type i guess, eventho that seems to differ from place to place). Because they build up a siege gun nearby to take out the turrets i built any defense chamber that wud fit into the pile. Then the marines opened the door with the switch and gegan firing with grenades and HMGs. Meanwhile they already had 3 <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> setup nearby to shoot at that pile. You wudnt believe that we managed to keep that pile alive seemingly for ever. I was a gorge and constantly built new towers when one has been destoryed. I didnt even die from the siege gun. So they kept sieging our turret pile and constant spammed it with grenades and HMG fire. All the aliens nearby were shooting at them as well. So they didnt have an easy time shooting thru that door, dodging out turret and alien fire. It was so freakin fun! The defensive chambers seemed to do a good job with healing the turrets that had been damaged. And if one died i built a new one. \o/ The commander was also constantly dropping ammo and health on the marines. They just didnt manage to take out the turret pile.
What then happened surprised me. After about 5 minutes of the mentioned situation the map changed....duh. When aliens are desperately and half-successfully trying to kill the final enemy base i have never seen a mapchange. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I was curious of how long we cud have kept that position.
But such great turret piles require that there are no other turrets built nearby, or the turret restriction wud disallow to build the most possible amount of turrets on one spot. You know what i mean.
In general its advisable to build all the turrets to secure a hive and such at the entraces. Build 3 next to each other in the corridors and then stack the rest on those 3. Your alien mates still can get thru the "wall" of turrets. Behind those offensive chambers you build a row of defense chambers. Both types maxed out of course. That will keep them off for a long time.
This way marines cannot build many of them because they lack of the players. And also it makes them need to attend to the outpost containing the siege gun. A guy in a siege turret is an easy target. So 1 or 2 mates shud watch him while firing at the alien buildings.
The question is: How does the siege gun controller TARGET a building?
Nah the game is perfect now leave it
my aliens are winning<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that is your idea of a perfectly balanced game?