<!--quoteo(post=1568715:date=Oct 1 2006, 09:17 PM:name=Petco)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petco @ Oct 1 2006, 09:17 PM) [snapback]1568715[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <b>I'll assume that the devs will start making NS2 by making NS:Source, then adding in the features that will create NS2.</b> Is that right? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong, and that might even double the time needed. because Source and goldsrc (=hl1 engine) are completely different engines and ns1 is coded<b>*</b> specifically for hl1, it would take a lot of work to get the feel of ns1. (and it won't be exactly the same anyways, again due to the engine differences)
<b>*</b> if it was another mod with players shooting each other, no aliens, no commander mode, then it'd be pretty easy to port over. but in NS's case i'm guessing it will be a hellish experience.
long long example: there will be times when there's a brand-new-and-enhanced-or-even-maybe-just-maybe-revolutionary (better ) way of implementing "feature X" but since it won't be the same as NS1, the team might end up going out of their way to implement it another (but bad) way for NS:S and then for NS2 they'll start over and do the right thing, so, twice the work for just one feature (one of them kickass, the other one boring)
The commander view is the only major gameplay obsticle I can think of in terms of simply porting it.
Most of the other features utilise base, or close to base commands to preform. Buildings are a spawn function with a linked use command/timer before they're functional. Weapons, medikits, ammo are all spawn commands... Some have limiters on <i>where</i> that command can be activated. (something not seen until later versions of NS anyway) Seiges might be a little tricky, but with my limited knowledge of the way these games are put togather, they simply look to spawn an AOE damage function within a certian range at an alien structure.
Alien weapons are a little trickier, but most would be a modification of the knife/crowbar code... But I can see where Spore/umbra, devour, and maybe even healspray could all have issues with impilentation. Bile bomb and Acid rocket are (from my POV) just grenade/rocket coding... Blink currently looks like it mearly modifies movement speed at the cost of "ammo."
Upgrades for both sides are hard modifiers linked to structures.
The real obsticle I see towards NS:S/2 are the models, mapping, and skinning departments. As well as the nebulous "new features" that are bandied about without any specifics.
I voted for NS:S because we know what's in and what's not likely, where as nothing has been really uttered about the scope, ideas, and goals of NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1568076:date=Sep 26 2006, 05:58 PM:name=Hellbilly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hellbilly @ Sep 26 2006, 05:58 PM) [snapback]1568076[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I want NS2 or a combination of both. It's time NS gets something more then a facelift. It deserves it. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, since they are going to charge for NS:S now anyway, i say they should go all the way and work to make something that could be accepted as NS2! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1568775:date=Oct 2 2006, 05:26 PM:name=Andrew_Fireborn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Andrew_Fireborn @ Oct 2 2006, 05:26 PM) [snapback]1568775[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I voted for NS:S because we know what's in and what's not likely, where as nothing has been really uttered about the scope, ideas, and goals of NS2. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
GISPBattle GorgeDenmarkJoin Date: 2004-03-20Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
As i previus stated. I would love to have both! My vote goes to NS:S - then a NS2 NS:S should be a remake of current NS - new maps, and such, but no additions. NS2 when that time comes, A total new game. - New content maps... SINGLE PLAYER Mode... I emailed you my ideas a while back... take another look at em... Cheers -GISP
NSS would be competitive, NS2 would be goo for SP.
I think releasing a mod which is GOOD and successful on the HL2 engine would be awesome as there are none so far which have really taken off, other than valve made ones, css and dods. If you create the first successful HL2 it could take off like CS did back in half-life days.
GISPBattle GorgeDenmarkJoin Date: 2004-03-20Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
<!--quoteo(post=1569061:date=Oct 5 2006, 06:52 AM:name=haymo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(haymo @ Oct 5 2006, 06:52 AM) [snapback]1569061[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> NSS would be competitive, NS2 would be goo for SP.
I think releasing a mod which is GOOD and successful on the HL2 engine would be awesome as there are none so far which have really taken off, other than valve made ones, css and dods. If you create the first successful HL2 it could take off like CS did back in half-life days. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dont think it will be a "MOD". but rather a new "game" to buy over steam... Whish i will surely purchase.
<!--quoteo(post=1569061:date=Oct 5 2006, 12:52 AM:name=haymo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(haymo @ Oct 5 2006, 12:52 AM) [snapback]1569061[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think releasing a mod which is GOOD and successful on the HL2 engine would be awesome as there are none so far which have really taken off, other than valve made ones, css and dods. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
CSS and DODS are no longer mods. They're professional games.
<!--quoteo(post=1569061:date=Oct 5 2006, 04:52 AM:name=haymo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(haymo @ Oct 5 2006, 04:52 AM) [snapback]1569061[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> NSS would be competitive, NS2 would be goo for SP.
I think releasing a mod which is GOOD and successful on the HL2 engine would be awesome as there are none so far which have really taken off, other than valve made ones, css and dods. If you create the first successful HL2 it could take off like CS did back in half-life days. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Garry's Mod has taken off.
I voted NS2. As far as I can tell there isn't much of a difference other than that they'd more freely change the gameplay. If Flayra is behind the changes then I can't imagine the vision would change that much.
Yeah, that's pretty much the logic I applied to the situation. The devs wouldn't go off the rails- NS2 would be a new title that sticks to its roots where possible but isn't afraid to change or add something to take best advantange of the engine.
Or maybe I'm dumb and it'd actually be Pong. 'Cept with a Frontiersman and Skulk as batons.
A rose by any other name, and all that. Don't give me what I've already got. Impress me like you did four years ago with something new. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What he said. NS is what it is, an amazing feat of perseverance and ingenuity. I think to make NS:S would in a way detract from the impact of the original. Bring on NS2, the evolution of NS into something new and different and special in its own way.
GISPBattle GorgeDenmarkJoin Date: 2004-03-20Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
<!--quoteo(post=1568272:date=Sep 28 2006, 06:51 AM:name=ssjyoda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ssjyoda @ Sep 28 2006, 06:51 AM) [snapback]1568272[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> im just curious.. would ns2 stay in the same universe? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Flayra has anounced that all furture game releases by UWE will be in the same "universe".
<!--quoteo(post=1568715:date=Oct 1 2006, 09:17 PM:name=Petco)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Petco @ Oct 1 2006, 09:17 PM) [snapback]1568715[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <b>NS:Source </b>- The current NS on the HL2 engine, but no major gameplay changes or new system or features that changes the game significately.
<b>NS2</b> - NS:Source with gameplay changes or new features that change theh game significately.
Both uses the HL2 engine. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Call me retarded but aren't there better engines to start a new game on? F.E.A.R comes to mind.. I mean, i'm sure by the time they created a whole new game we would all have rigs fast enough to run that game....
For one thing, the design of HL2 is very similar to HL1's design. Since the NS Devs are quite familiar with HL1, it makes it much easier for them to work with HL2.
Besides, if NS2 is to CS:S as NS was to CS, you'll be needing that new rig anyways... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
HellbillyA whole title out of pity...Join Date: 2002-11-02Member: 3931Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
I think Source is the best bet, not only because of the familiarity of the code, but Source really has good things going for it because it's modular and Valve keep making it better and design new features and improve on others.
What i will post here is my opinion considering too the Unknown Worlds financial health.
NS as a retail game no doubt.
Charlie, you have a very good strategy game in your hands. NS can´t be just a half-life modification.
I don´t have any complain about Source Engine, but we should look forward. NS is more like Battlefield series than a Counter-Strike style tath the NS:Combat tried to reach it.
The Natural Selection genre is still unique tath gives sensation of a FPS Starcraft Game.
- Retail Game, payed mod game is not a good way. DoD in my opinion din´t make much success at all. - Huge maps for up to 64 players (like Battlefield) and explore Alien atmosphere of the game. Great battles Humans vs Aliens will sure attract atention to the game. - Commander center doesn´t need much modification (My feeling is tath the new Battlefield 2142 copied NS Commander Center style what i saw) - Vehicles (i don´t think it will be good for the game, only a player test to show this) - NS:Combat kills NS strategy atmosphere, NS was the unique real modification of Half-Life tath player´s brain is more important than just shooting things around. And we should explore this. Pay a lot of money for an engine license is something hard for a small company, but i´m sure tath you can make an agreement with Valve, Dice, ID or Epic.
<!--quoteo(post=1569411:date=Oct 8 2006, 09:45 PM:name=RooK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RooK @ Oct 8 2006, 09:45 PM) [snapback]1569411[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Call me retarded but aren't there better engines to start a new game on? F.E.A.R comes to mind.. I mean, i'm sure by the time they created a whole new game we would all have rigs fast enough to run that game....
HL2 just seems a little antiquated at this point. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that may be, but from a marketing aspect, how man people owned Half-life 1? tons. thats how CS started, and even more bought it because of CS alone. Now we have steam (oddly enough it's nice for smaller businesses like this), UWE could make a NS:source and sell it on there, and then everyone that is on steam is aware of it, and probably have heard of NS, and would be much easier to sell.
Now go with a stand-alone game, UWE would have to do all the marketing themselves, create/lease an engine themselves.
While we all would have faster rigs, what about the other people who wouldn't? they'd just be left in the dust. Source is already such a modular engine that they could tune it exactly how they need it, and it's "old enough" that people would be able to play it very well when NS:source comes out
And not to mention, if you were able to just reproduce NS on steam, you'd be able to sell it on there, and still be able to make NS2 on your own engine and make a much larger game design/MMO thing or whatever comes up. from a marketing standpoint, why not make 2 games instead of 1?
Another point a lot of people seem to be missing is that Source has been tested and fixed. Just look at the GldSrc engine, 7 years of development and it's the smoothest engine I can think of - in my opinion it is simply *the* engine for competetive play simply because of the amount of work that has gone into fixing up the bugs, refining the netcode, and simply keeping it running. Imagine Source in 1-2 years, it will be well on the way to the same kind of smoothness that GldSrc has, the amount of bugs in the engine will have dropped considerably, the development tools will be easier to use and more powerful through VALVe's ongoing development.
Source has been tried and tested now - it's been accepted by the vast majority of competetive gamers (CS:S anyone?) and that just doesn't happen unless you have a good, stable, predictable and polished engine - which is something Charlie won't have if he jumps on the bandwagon of developing on newer 'next-gen' engines (e.g. UE3, Crysis).
Well I seem to have some mixed opinions regarding the state of the NS Development. Whilst I envy the move to develop NS2 as a whole new standalone game, the NS:Source however could generate more players in the database.
Although my opionons would first initially find a strategy to improve the numbers of players getting into the NS Scene, NS:Source would be a good idea, except the game game would have to run on the Valve engine and the developers would have little control over the management once it's decided the game would go thought the Source engine, whilst developing NS2 from scratch however would mean the developers would have a greater control of the market except it would be a costly exercise to pay xxx amount of capital investment upfront.
It seems to me this is going to be a Stategic Risk that you're going to take. If I were the developers I would strongly recommend seeking financial advisors and also recommend establishing some sort of a risk-management system plan so you can have a thorough understanding whenever or not they should collaborate developing a game or software for a company or develop their own, because the way I see it, it's going to be one way or another but not both ways as what they have stated it's not economically feasible for them to develop both games at once.
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
My only gripe with the source engine is its lighting- its ancient, and doesent look nearly as good in in-door enviroments as the FEAR and Doom3/ Unreal 3 engine.
Isnt Episode 2 coming with a revamped lighting system, though? Hopefully NS2 will use that.
NS: Source would be equivalent to Counter-Strike: Condition Zero meant to appease the current players with some better graphics and some updated maps and the like, the gameplay was essentially the same(multiplayer that is).
NS2 is more like Counter-strike 2, which has not been made yet(CS:S is essentially a straight port).
<!--quoteo(post=1569781:date=Oct 12 2006, 03:26 PM:name=WaterBoy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(WaterBoy @ Oct 12 2006, 03:26 PM) [snapback]1569781[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My only gripe with the source engine is its lighting- its ancient, and doesent look nearly as good in in-door enviroments as the FEAR and Doom3/ Unreal 3 engine.
Isnt Episode 2 coming with a revamped lighting system, though? Hopefully NS2 will use that. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This could be because the Doom3 engine was built almost entirely aiming at indoor environments, and the Unreal Engine 3 and FEAR engines are both next-gen ? Hmmmm, quite possibly. As we all also know - the vast majority of NS players don't have very expensive rigs, therefore choosing an engine which is incredibly scaleable in terms of texture sizes, model LOD's, lighting/reflections and shadows - is possibly a good idea (of which UE3 FEAR and Doom3 simply arent).
<!--quoteo(post=1569784:date=Oct 12 2006, 04:35 PM:name=freebirdpat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(freebirdpat @ Oct 12 2006, 04:35 PM) [snapback]1569784[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS: Source would be equivalent to Counter-Strike: Condition Zero meant to appease the current players with some better graphics and some updated maps and the like, the gameplay was essentially the same(multiplayer that is).
NS2 is more like Counter-strike 2, which has not been made yet(CS:S is essentially a straight port). Thats my opinion anyhow <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To address this point - did any of you follow the *tremendous* uproar when the CPL announced their bi-annual CS tournament was changing to CS:S ? Fair enough for joe pubber yes, the game is almost identital, the gameplay is the same just with better graphics. But for competetive players, moving the game to another engine simply changes everything. Much of competetive play (in any game) resolves around 'allowable' exploits of the game, anything you can do to give yourself an advantage without breaking the rules. With a new engine, everything changes, the movement is different, the grenade physics are different (VERY important in CS) and basically in terms of competetive play, it's almost like learning the game from scratch again.
The reason I quoted your post here was because CS:CZ was still using the same base engine as CS, hence yes it had a minor graphical update, but the engine was the same, and the gameplay quirks, the movement speed, the <b>feel</b> of the game was very much the same. With CS:S that changed, in my opinion for the better. CS has always been and I think will always (at least for the forseeable future) remain to be the flagship game of the Esports industry. The problem with CS was that it was such a niche game to get good at - most high-level CS players simply didn't or couldn't play other games to the same level. With CS:S so much has changed that the CS teams of old, namely the likes of SK.swe 4Kings, coL and mouz (etc) simply aren't able to dominate the competetive scene - which has led to a massive amount of new teams playing and winning international tournaments.
If you managed to read my essay thus far, you'll see that whilst moving CS to the Source engine alienated a huge amount of the old competetive playerbase, it also brought in a huge amount of new players, and in turn spawned it's own competetive playerbase, with new names and faces - and more of them. The point I'm getting at is that whilst CS may be a regarded as a 'niche' game to play competetively, it's nothing compared to the niche NS has, and to look at the CS/CS:S transition and how it has affected the community in terms of growth - I really think that moving to a new engine - regardless of how much the game was built around the quirks and exploits of the current engine - will be good for the game and the community.
Sry for offtopic <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
Whatever is going to be done- I feel it has to be done <b>now</b>. I'd guess at 12 months from conception to first release, if Flayra can afford to offer contracts to professionals to work as developers.
As this will be a major stepping stone for UWE- I feel that a release in Spring 2008 will be too late.
I'm not saying no-one will be playing Steam games by then- but as NS:S/NS2 will be a retail game; many gamers might choose to buy next-gen titles (such as UT2007 etc) instead. A game doesn't have to have excellent graphics to sell- indie games with innovative gameplay such as Defcon prove this; but blending FPS with RTS is no longer a unique idea, and let's face it- us FPS gamers are a simple breed- we like pretty eye candy.
Comments
<b>I'll assume that the devs will start making NS2 by making NS:Source, then adding in the features that will create NS2.</b> Is that right?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong, and that might even double the time needed. because Source and goldsrc (=hl1 engine) are completely different engines and ns1 is coded<b>*</b> specifically for hl1, it would take a lot of work to get the feel of ns1. (and it won't be exactly the same anyways, again due to the engine differences)
<b>*</b> if it was another mod with players shooting each other, no aliens, no commander mode, then it'd be pretty easy to port over. but in NS's case i'm guessing it will be a hellish experience.
long long example: there will be times when there's a brand-new-and-enhanced-or-even-maybe-just-maybe-revolutionary (better ) way of implementing "feature X" but since it won't be the same as NS1, the team might end up going out of their way to implement it another (but bad) way for NS:S and then for NS2 they'll start over and do the right thing, so, twice the work for just one feature (one of them kickass, the other one boring)
Most of the other features utilise base, or close to base commands to preform. Buildings are a spawn function with a linked use command/timer before they're functional. Weapons, medikits, ammo are all spawn commands... Some have limiters on <i>where</i> that command can be activated. (something not seen until later versions of NS anyway) Seiges might be a little tricky, but with my limited knowledge of the way these games are put togather, they simply look to spawn an AOE damage function within a certian range at an alien structure.
Alien weapons are a little trickier, but most would be a modification of the knife/crowbar code... But I can see where Spore/umbra, devour, and maybe even healspray could all have issues with impilentation. Bile bomb and Acid rocket are (from my POV) just grenade/rocket coding... Blink currently looks like it mearly modifies movement speed at the cost of "ammo."
Upgrades for both sides are hard modifiers linked to structures.
The real obsticle I see towards NS:S/2 are the models, mapping, and skinning departments. As well as the nebulous "new features" that are bandied about without any specifics.
I voted for NS:S because we know what's in and what's not likely, where as nothing has been really uttered about the scope, ideas, and goals of NS2.
I want NS2 or a combination of both. It's time NS gets something more then a facelift. It deserves it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT!!!
I voted for NS:S because we know what's in and what's not likely, where as nothing has been really uttered about the scope, ideas, and goals of NS2.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:script:
I would love to have both!
My vote goes to NS:S - then a NS2
NS:S should be a remake of current NS - new maps, and such, but no additions.
NS2 when that time comes, A total new game. - New content maps... SINGLE PLAYER Mode...
I emailed you my ideas a while back... take another look at em...
Cheers
-GISP
/thread
lock plz
I think releasing a mod which is GOOD and successful on the HL2 engine would be awesome as there are none so far which have really taken off, other than valve made ones, css and dods. If you create the first successful HL2 it could take off like CS did back in half-life days.
NSS would be competitive, NS2 would be goo for SP.
I think releasing a mod which is GOOD and successful on the HL2 engine would be awesome as there are none so far which have really taken off, other than valve made ones, css and dods. If you create the first successful HL2 it could take off like CS did back in half-life days.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dont think it will be a "MOD". but rather a new "game" to buy over steam... Whish i will surely purchase.
I think releasing a mod which is GOOD and successful on the HL2 engine would be awesome as there are none so far which have really taken off, other than valve made ones, css and dods.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
CSS and DODS are no longer mods. They're professional games.
NSS would be competitive, NS2 would be goo for SP.
I think releasing a mod which is GOOD and successful on the HL2 engine would be awesome as there are none so far which have really taken off, other than valve made ones, css and dods. If you create the first successful HL2 it could take off like CS did back in half-life days.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Garry's Mod has taken off.
I voted NS2. As far as I can tell there isn't much of a difference other than that they'd more freely change the gameplay. If Flayra is behind the changes then I can't imagine the vision would change that much.
Or maybe I'm dumb and it'd actually be Pong. 'Cept with a Frontiersman and Skulk as batons.
Yeah.
NS2.
A rose by any other name, and all that. Don't give me what I've already got. Impress me like you did four years ago with something new.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What he said. NS is what it is, an amazing feat of perseverance and ingenuity. I think to make NS:S would in a way detract from the impact of the original. Bring on NS2, the evolution of NS into something new and different and special in its own way.
Flayra has anounced that all furture game releases by UWE will be in the same "universe".
<b>NS:Source </b>- The current NS on the HL2 engine, but no major gameplay changes or new system or features that changes the game significately.
<b>NS2</b> - NS:Source with gameplay changes or new features that change theh game significately.
Both uses the HL2 engine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Call me retarded but aren't there better engines to start a new game on? F.E.A.R comes to mind.. I mean, i'm sure by the time they created a whole new game we would all have rigs fast enough to run that game....
HL2 just seems a little antiquated at this point.
Besides, if NS2 is to CS:S as NS was to CS, you'll be needing that new rig anyways... <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Flayra has anounced that all furture game releases by UWE will be in the same "universe".
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally, I doubt this. NS:S/NS2 would certainly be in the same universe, though.
With Gorge Node sucking.
NS as a retail game no doubt.
Charlie, you have a very good strategy game in your hands. NS can´t be just a half-life modification.
I don´t have any complain about Source Engine, but we should look forward. NS is more like Battlefield series than a Counter-Strike style tath the NS:Combat tried to reach it.
The Natural Selection genre is still unique tath gives sensation of a FPS Starcraft Game.
- Retail Game, payed mod game is not a good way. DoD in my opinion din´t make much success at all.
- Huge maps for up to 64 players (like Battlefield) and explore Alien atmosphere of the game. Great battles Humans vs Aliens will sure attract atention to the game.
- Commander center doesn´t need much modification (My feeling is tath the new Battlefield 2142 copied NS Commander Center style what i saw)
- Vehicles (i don´t think it will be good for the game, only a player test to show this)
- NS:Combat kills NS strategy atmosphere, NS was the unique real modification of Half-Life tath player´s brain is more important than just shooting things around. And we should explore this.
Pay a lot of money for an engine license is something hard for a small company, but i´m sure tath you can make an agreement with Valve, Dice, ID or Epic.
I will post more soon about.
Call me retarded but aren't there better engines to start a new game on? F.E.A.R comes to mind.. I mean, i'm sure by the time they created a whole new game we would all have rigs fast enough to run that game....
HL2 just seems a little antiquated at this point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that may be, but from a marketing aspect, how man people owned Half-life 1? tons. thats how CS started, and even more bought it because of CS alone. Now we have steam (oddly enough it's nice for smaller businesses like this), UWE could make a NS:source and sell it on there, and then everyone that is on steam is aware of it, and probably have heard of NS, and would be much easier to sell.
Now go with a stand-alone game, UWE would have to do all the marketing themselves, create/lease an engine themselves.
While we all would have faster rigs, what about the other people who wouldn't? they'd just be left in the dust. Source is already such a modular engine that they could tune it exactly how they need it, and it's "old enough" that people would be able to play it very well when NS:source comes out
And not to mention, if you were able to just reproduce NS on steam, you'd be able to sell it on there, and still be able to make NS2 on your own engine and make a much larger game design/MMO thing or whatever comes up. from a marketing standpoint, why not make 2 games instead of 1?
Imagine Source in 1-2 years, it will be well on the way to the same kind of smoothness that GldSrc has, the amount of bugs in the engine will have dropped considerably, the development tools will be easier to use and more powerful through VALVe's ongoing development.
Source has been tried and tested now - it's been accepted by the vast majority of competetive gamers (CS:S anyone?) and that just doesn't happen unless you have a good, stable, predictable and polished engine - which is something Charlie won't have if he jumps on the bandwagon of developing on newer 'next-gen' engines (e.g. UE3, Crysis).
Although my opionons would first initially find a strategy to improve the numbers of players getting into the NS Scene, NS:Source would be a good idea, except the game game would have to run on the Valve engine and the developers would have little control over the management once it's decided the game would go thought the Source engine, whilst developing NS2 from scratch however would mean the developers would have a greater control of the market except it would be a costly exercise to pay xxx amount of capital investment upfront.
It seems to me this is going to be a Stategic Risk that you're going to take. If I were the developers I would strongly recommend seeking financial advisors and also recommend establishing some sort of a risk-management system plan so you can have a thorough understanding whenever or not they should collaborate developing a game or software for a company or develop their own, because the way I see it, it's going to be one way or another but not both ways as what they have stated it's not economically feasible for them to develop both games at once.
Isnt Episode 2 coming with a revamped lighting system, though? Hopefully NS2 will use that.
NS: Source would be equivalent to Counter-Strike: Condition Zero meant to appease the current players with some better graphics and some updated maps and the like, the gameplay was essentially the same(multiplayer that is).
NS2 is more like Counter-strike 2, which has not been made yet(CS:S is essentially a straight port).
Thats my opinion anyhow
Isnt Episode 2 coming with a revamped lighting system, though? Hopefully NS2 will use that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This could be because the Doom3 engine was built almost entirely aiming at indoor environments, and the Unreal Engine 3 and FEAR engines are both next-gen ? Hmmmm, quite possibly.
As we all also know - the vast majority of NS players don't have very expensive rigs, therefore choosing an engine which is incredibly scaleable in terms of texture sizes, model LOD's, lighting/reflections and shadows - is possibly a good idea (of which UE3 FEAR and Doom3 simply arent).
<!--quoteo(post=1569784:date=Oct 12 2006, 04:35 PM:name=freebirdpat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(freebirdpat @ Oct 12 2006, 04:35 PM) [snapback]1569784[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS: Source would be equivalent to Counter-Strike: Condition Zero meant to appease the current players with some better graphics and some updated maps and the like, the gameplay was essentially the same(multiplayer that is).
NS2 is more like Counter-strike 2, which has not been made yet(CS:S is essentially a straight port).
Thats my opinion anyhow
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To address this point - did any of you follow the *tremendous* uproar when the CPL announced their bi-annual CS tournament was changing to CS:S ? Fair enough for joe pubber yes, the game is almost identital, the gameplay is the same just with better graphics.
But for competetive players, moving the game to another engine simply changes everything. Much of competetive play (in any game) resolves around 'allowable' exploits of the game, anything you can do to give yourself an advantage without breaking the rules. With a new engine, everything changes, the movement is different, the grenade physics are different (VERY important in CS) and basically in terms of competetive play, it's almost like learning the game from scratch again.
The reason I quoted your post here was because CS:CZ was still using the same base engine as CS, hence yes it had a minor graphical update, but the engine was the same, and the gameplay quirks, the movement speed, the <b>feel</b> of the game was very much the same.
With CS:S that changed, in my opinion for the better. CS has always been and I think will always (at least for the forseeable future) remain to be the flagship game of the Esports industry. The problem with CS was that it was such a niche game to get good at - most high-level CS players simply didn't or couldn't play other games to the same level. With CS:S so much has changed that the CS teams of old, namely the likes of SK.swe 4Kings, coL and mouz (etc) simply aren't able to dominate the competetive scene - which has led to a massive amount of new teams playing and winning international tournaments.
If you managed to read my essay thus far, you'll see that whilst moving CS to the Source engine alienated a huge amount of the old competetive playerbase, it also brought in a huge amount of new players, and in turn spawned it's own competetive playerbase, with new names and faces - and more of them.
The point I'm getting at is that whilst CS may be a regarded as a 'niche' game to play competetively, it's nothing compared to the niche NS has, and to look at the CS/CS:S transition and how it has affected the community in terms of growth - I really think that moving to a new engine - regardless of how much the game was built around the quirks and exploits of the current engine - will be good for the game and the community.
Sry for offtopic <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
Whatever is going to be done- I feel it has to be done <b>now</b>. I'd guess at 12 months from conception to first release, if Flayra can afford to offer contracts to professionals to work as developers.
As this will be a major stepping stone for UWE- I feel that a release in Spring 2008 will be too late.
I'm not saying no-one will be playing Steam games by then- but as NS:S/NS2 will be a retail game; many gamers might choose to buy next-gen titles (such as UT2007 etc) instead. A game doesn't have to have excellent graphics to sell- indie games with innovative gameplay such as Defcon prove this; but blending FPS with RTS is no longer a unique idea, and let's face it- us FPS gamers are a simple breed- we like pretty eye candy.