NS:Source mapping and textures

TheRealQuasar

I've been playing with a few little ideas for NS:S maps in hammer, but with only a few "High-tech" style textures, and almost all of them Combine-oriented, It's really hard to do anything good. Unfortunately, I am terrible at making textures, so that's out of the question. So, are there any existing Source-quality NS textures? If I were to convert the already existing NS textures to Source, would it be worth it? What about static/detail models?

Incidentally, is anyone else working on NS:S maps? With all the new shiny things that the engine is capable of, there are gonna be some very cool things we can do. Which reminds me, NS with the new shadow effects from HL2:E2 might just be the coolest thing ever...

GiGaBiTe

It would be pointless to just port the NS textures over to source because default source textures are 512x512 while the max NS has ever used was 256x256. There's also the problem where NS textures have been pre-shaded, and source uses material scripts on a non-shaded textures to generate shadows.

There's also those strange sized textures like 144x144 and 192x192 that would have to be fixed in order to work. If you want some non-combine textures, you could try dystopia stuff, as they seem to have alot of high-tech ones.

Hellbilly

All the textures have to be redone from scratch. Like gigabyte mentions, you cant just port them for various reasons.

Some people have done a few textures and there are actually old threads on the forums on it. Supernorn and J- did a few texture tests over a year or so ago with mixed results.

I also know of a certain person that has been trying to rebuild Reactor Room on Tanith for Source, with remade textures and i did help him a bit on it, and it's safe to say, it aint easy making NS textures for Source unless you have prior experience <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

RSX

You could convert them to source, even though they do have lighting and shadow baked into the textures. Source isn't really that good in lighting in the same way say doom3 engine is. But due to the small resolutions, they would probably turn out rubbish.

I would advise anyone making textures for source too add subtle lighting to there textures

I'm thinking about making some textures for ns source based on the orginals, but kinda wanting advise on what dimentions to go for 512x512 or 1024x1024?

GiGaBiTe

Use 512x512 for wall and floor textures, and use 1024x1024 for terrain textures and alien infestation textures.

RSX

Won't 512 x 512 be abit pixalated on large walls and floors?

Also, if i make ceiling textures with lights in them, would they be better with self-illum maps, so that they glow in the dark? Or can this be done better in hammer. I really don't have that much knowledge when it comes too hammer?

GiGaBiTe

You forget the default texture scale for source textures is 0.25 x 0.25, so the texture gets compressed down.

Spacer

Basicly, any wall or floor section that's 128*128 should have a 512*512 texture.

Kittamaru

Is the mapping data for NS:S up for release before NS:S itself is? So mappers can get a head start learning the NS:S mapping abilities?

NsNewb

i doubt they even started coding NS source

GiGaBiTe

<!--quoteo(post=1566964:date=Sep 19 2006, 06:04 PM:name=Kittamaru)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kittamaru @ Sep 19 2006, 06:04 PM) [snapback]1566964[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Is the mapping data for NS:S up for release before NS:S itself is? So mappers can get a head start learning the NS:S mapping abilities?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The map tools are probably only given to mappers on the developer team, as they would also need a copy of the game to test the maps on. If you want to play around with some ideas, use garry's mod or some such that has alot of flexibility.

RSX

Been doing abit of testing:

<a href="http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6199/test30000bw0.jpg" target="_blank">http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6199/test30000bw0.jpg</a>

Is there a command to turn of the lights?

And why are my rooms illumated even though there are no lights in my map?

[Deleted User]

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, if i make ceiling textures with lights in them, would they be better with self-illum maps, so that they glow in the dark? Or can this be done better in hammer. I really don't have that much knowledge when it comes too hammer?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You could use a $selfillum map, then add the texture to lights.rad so the texture gives off its own light.. but then everyone would need the same lights.rad as you, so its more of a Dev's job sadly <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />. $selfillum will do on its own, you just need to place a light right beside the light source on the texture


Making source textures is fun <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

RSX

OK, made a couple of remakes from asyumi:

<a href="http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8742/asyumirx8.jpg" target="_blank">http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/8742/asyumirx8.jpg</a>

Should i continue? Any crits?

[Deleted User]

I think they need a bit more texture to them, maybe some painted lighting too. Although with a nice normal and specular map, those might look pretty good.

RSX

Heres a couple for you mappers to test, pls repley and tell me what you think. Also some input on designs would could in real handy

<a href="http://www.dermott.plus.com/ns_source.rar" target="_blank">http://dermott.plus.com/ns_source.rar</a>

Instal: place under the materials directory of hl2/dod:s/css whatever source game.

Spacer

You need to ditch that painted lighting, normal maps all the way, especially for the way NS maps are lit. I'd also suggest using specular maps
More detail overall on the colour map couldn't hurt either.

RSX

They do have env mapping on them. Specular is only supported in ep:1 and dod:s at the moment, so im goona wait till ns source is actually here before i implement spec maps.

[Deleted User]

lol what? specular maps have been useable from the very start.

the $phong shader was introduced with the last sdk update along with the other new stuff used in ep1, which is used on model textures. I use it and it looks pretty neat, but sometimes a standard specular map looks better.

RSX

Yeah env_cubemaps with were available from the start, which i am using now.

Specular mapping i.e. phong shading, was added later.

Like i said, may aswell wait until ns:s is actually been released before using phong maps.

Spacer

Specular maps = not phong.
Specular maps control the reflection of an object, phong is how models are lit.

[Deleted User]

im not certain, but i think $phong is only availible for models. its for vertix lighting, normal level textures use lightmaped lighting.

But really all you need to do is make a black and white mask for the specular map, stick it in the alpha channel of your normal map and use something like this to get a specular mask, but im sure you already know this..

"$normalmapalphaenvmapmask" 1
"$envmap" "env_cubemap"
"$envmapcontrast" X
"$envmapsaturation" X
"$envmaptint" "[ .X .X .X]"

RSX

Actually phong is specular lighting. The models are lit using the shader: VertexlitGeneric. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_shading</a>

Specular = strength or intensity of the lighting model.
Contained with $phong shading is an exponent map otherwise known as a gloss map, that controls the exposure area to be submitted to the specular lighting.

<a href="http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=specvsexponentinphong2os.jpg" target="_blank">http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s...tinphong2os.jpg</a> -explains gloss maps
<a href="http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maps6we.jpg" target="_blank">http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maps6we.jpg</a>


Cubemaps are just reflections of the world using 6 images, and could be considered specular maps, but just because they make the enviroments look shiny.

I'll see if $phong shading works with LightmappedGeneric.

TheRealQuasar

I had a bit of a play in hammer... These extra-shiny textures look gorgeous with cubemaps and the right lighting... Good start. With bump-maps and all these other confusing words that I don't understand, they could look awesome. They look pretty good in light or dark, but really look out of place among the rest of the HL2 textures. The cure for this? More!

Random Thought: computer screens with HDR effects... Blue ones... I like blue things... Red too...

RSX

I start making better ones and release a pack of about 50 or so for the first release. That should get ppl started.

Besides these metal type walls, is there any other materials that would work combined with these textures?

I was thinking about concrete, but it looks a little out of place in ns, as ever texture is mostly metal.

[Deleted User]

remember the aliens sides of maps, they need funky textures <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

TheRealQuasar

We have some good concrete ones already from the default HL2 textures... More are welcome, though. Decal versions of the TSA logo and stuff would be nice, and I personally would love you if you made some new skyboxes with stars and nebulae and things.

Computer screen textures, alien/infested textures, pipes, crates, barrels (applied to the props, if that's possible), and other random stuff that makes the game real. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

Garet_Jax

Oh God- HL2 barrels.

At least all you mappers can finally replace Generic Cargo Box with HL2 barrels for Source <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

P.S. skulks moving inside barrels, Metal Gear Solid-style. The Humans will never know.

GiGaBiTe

<!--quoteo(post=1567029:date=Sep 20 2006, 05:30 AM:name=RSX)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(RSX @ Sep 20 2006, 05:30 AM) [snapback]1567029[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
Been doing abit of testing:

<a href="http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6199/test30000bw0.jpg" target="_blank">http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6199/test30000bw0.jpg</a>

Is there a command to turn of the lights?

And why are my rooms illumated even though there are no lights in my map?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

If you don't have any lights in your map, the engine will use fullbright, and you cannot turn that off. If you want a dark map, just make a light_environment in the map and don't have a skybox in it.

The_Cheat

I do recall a thread long ago where some people made some very nice remakes of NS textures in Source, complete with bumpmapping and all that stuff. They were made with no painted light at all; instead, Source did the shadows with the bumpmaps, and the result was pretty convincing.

If I still had any of the pictures on my drive, I'd post 'em, but I lost them awhile ago. Maybe someone else remembers what I'm talkin' about. It was a stickied thread then.

Kouji_San

That would be this thread:

<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com:90/forums/index.php?s=2179688087909513984&showtopic=86672&hl=source&st=0" target="_blank">linkage</a>

There are still some infestation textures in there...