Played The Two Best Matches So Far (to Me Anyways)
Ravlen
Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7713Members
Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7713Members
<div class="IPBDescription">One as Marine, one as alien</div> this is very long, detailing the strategy used, as well as what bugs seems still prevalent.
So, a clan asked me if I wanted to try out for them, since my buddy and I were doing really good on our server. They invited a few other people to try out, and we had our teams.
5 on 5, looked like it would be good.
The first match, the recruits were aliens, and it was some good playing on both sides. The marines spread out extremely fast (of course), but our tactic was to simply ignore their advances. Simply guard our main hive, and aim for the next nearest hive. We spent most of our time harassing the marine's advances, and securing the route between the two hives. They knew what hive we wanted, but we just kept forcing them back. We knew they had our 3rd hive covered, and that's ok. Our goal was to get Fades, and then we'd go on offensive.
Once the hive was up, and both were adequately defended, we attacked with fades and lerks. It was tough fighting, but we eventually overcame their superior firepower (and I mean vastly superior). It took us a loooooong time to kill off their stuff, which I must say is quite annoying. Marines can set up base in a minute or two, drop down a turret factory, drop down 5-6 turrets, bang, impenetrable as long as there's a smart marine guarding it. On the other hand, it takes a long time for a gorge or two to set up a base somewhere, which one marine with a heavy machine gun can take down in seconds. I know I myself have taken out whole bases solo, as long as I had that heavy machine gun. One clip can take out 2 (sometimes 3) offensive towers, reload, kill off the rest, move onward. Odds are he took next to no damage either.
Anyways, over a long period of time, we pushed them back, and eventually took our third hive as we *slowly* shut down their resource collecting. After that, it was all over. But damned if it didn't take AGES to take down their final base. That's another thing I've found... an alien hive can go down to a marine squad FAST, but a marine base is always slowly chipped away at. *shrug*
Anyways, next match we switched sides, and it was really sweet. I took over the role as commander, as no one seemed to be confident with it. Build one spawn point, then an armory and another spawn point at the same time. Turret factory + 2 turrets strategically placed to cover the factory itself, as well as the base.
At this point, one marine stays to defend, while the others team up and move to the first resource point. We take our time, secure the point, set up defenses, and keep moving onwards. Our goal is a hive that's relatively easy to get to. We're essentially securing both the resource points, and the route to them, at the same time.
As time goes on, I have put up better base defenses, and have started researching, but not extensively. I'm watching my guys, but I notice how painful it is to be a commander... Click on some guys and try to give them a waypoint. Sometimes it works fine, other times you click 10 times and no waypoint, other times you can't select them... What's worse is when you can't UNselect them. Their waypoint was given, and then I drop a turret down for someone else and I hear "Build selected target". **obscenity**, no guys, disregard, I'll give you a new waypoint soon. Other times I WANT to tell someone to build something and end up just yelling directions in the mic, because no matter how much I click, it just doesn't go.
Once the second hive is secured, we have a jumpgate there, as well as a new armory for ammo. Any big guns they want are just one jump away, and then they can just pick up ammo at the hive. Again, slow and steady, move down towards hive #2 and clear it out.
Slowly, but surely, we march through them. They do get to fades, but even though we were taking our time, they couldn't keep up with our march. 3-4 marines together are no match for a group of aliens, assuming they know what they are doing. I've seen too many times on a pub server when a skulk takes out a whole team. That just doesn't happen during scrims.
Once the second hive was eliminated, it was all over.
Anyways, good playing on both sides (even though we won both times, against the clan <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->, but the annoyances are even more prevalent I found. I think the command menu could use some work. 99% of the time people would tell me over the mic what they wanted, and then just use the "In Position" menu item so i could hit spacebar and get to them fast. It could really use a "Empty Resource Node Found" item, for starters, and maybe some others. The lower amount of resources is very noticable, but didn't make much of a difference. 3-4 marines with light machine guns are just as good as 1-2 with heavy machine guns. Everything died pretty fast...
On the alien side, it felt like we were really on the verge of losing at any time. We had to take an extremely defensive stance early on (other than a few skulkers rushing to keep the marines on their toes), and had to SLOWLY push back the marines. Sure, over time you can take out fortifications, but early on, there's nothing a skulker can really do against a position with well placed turrets. A smart commander will place them in such a way that there are no "holes" where a skulker can hide and chomp on something. Until that second hive goes up, the aliens are 100% on the defense, and the marines have probably taken the last hive position (if they are smart). By the time the second hive is done building, the marines are already encroaching upon us. It takes both alot of luck and alot of skill to take back what the marines took. And if they are good, I'm not sure it is really possible.
The one thing that I haven't seen yet is a good Lerk / Fade combo. I've heard it can be devastating, but I have yet to see it work well. The most I've seen is a lerk covering a fade while it shoots acid rockets at a position. Also, is it just me or are acid bombs not what they should be? I try them out once in a while, tossing them on unsuspecting marines... a couple times I dropped at least 3-4 as direct hits, and they told me later it didn't seem to do much. It also didn't seem to work well on turrets. Am I just missing my targets?
anyways, there's alot more observations I could make, but this post is already WAY too long for most people to actually read through. If you made it this far, cool <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ravlen
So, a clan asked me if I wanted to try out for them, since my buddy and I were doing really good on our server. They invited a few other people to try out, and we had our teams.
5 on 5, looked like it would be good.
The first match, the recruits were aliens, and it was some good playing on both sides. The marines spread out extremely fast (of course), but our tactic was to simply ignore their advances. Simply guard our main hive, and aim for the next nearest hive. We spent most of our time harassing the marine's advances, and securing the route between the two hives. They knew what hive we wanted, but we just kept forcing them back. We knew they had our 3rd hive covered, and that's ok. Our goal was to get Fades, and then we'd go on offensive.
Once the hive was up, and both were adequately defended, we attacked with fades and lerks. It was tough fighting, but we eventually overcame their superior firepower (and I mean vastly superior). It took us a loooooong time to kill off their stuff, which I must say is quite annoying. Marines can set up base in a minute or two, drop down a turret factory, drop down 5-6 turrets, bang, impenetrable as long as there's a smart marine guarding it. On the other hand, it takes a long time for a gorge or two to set up a base somewhere, which one marine with a heavy machine gun can take down in seconds. I know I myself have taken out whole bases solo, as long as I had that heavy machine gun. One clip can take out 2 (sometimes 3) offensive towers, reload, kill off the rest, move onward. Odds are he took next to no damage either.
Anyways, over a long period of time, we pushed them back, and eventually took our third hive as we *slowly* shut down their resource collecting. After that, it was all over. But damned if it didn't take AGES to take down their final base. That's another thing I've found... an alien hive can go down to a marine squad FAST, but a marine base is always slowly chipped away at. *shrug*
Anyways, next match we switched sides, and it was really sweet. I took over the role as commander, as no one seemed to be confident with it. Build one spawn point, then an armory and another spawn point at the same time. Turret factory + 2 turrets strategically placed to cover the factory itself, as well as the base.
At this point, one marine stays to defend, while the others team up and move to the first resource point. We take our time, secure the point, set up defenses, and keep moving onwards. Our goal is a hive that's relatively easy to get to. We're essentially securing both the resource points, and the route to them, at the same time.
As time goes on, I have put up better base defenses, and have started researching, but not extensively. I'm watching my guys, but I notice how painful it is to be a commander... Click on some guys and try to give them a waypoint. Sometimes it works fine, other times you click 10 times and no waypoint, other times you can't select them... What's worse is when you can't UNselect them. Their waypoint was given, and then I drop a turret down for someone else and I hear "Build selected target". **obscenity**, no guys, disregard, I'll give you a new waypoint soon. Other times I WANT to tell someone to build something and end up just yelling directions in the mic, because no matter how much I click, it just doesn't go.
Once the second hive is secured, we have a jumpgate there, as well as a new armory for ammo. Any big guns they want are just one jump away, and then they can just pick up ammo at the hive. Again, slow and steady, move down towards hive #2 and clear it out.
Slowly, but surely, we march through them. They do get to fades, but even though we were taking our time, they couldn't keep up with our march. 3-4 marines together are no match for a group of aliens, assuming they know what they are doing. I've seen too many times on a pub server when a skulk takes out a whole team. That just doesn't happen during scrims.
Once the second hive was eliminated, it was all over.
Anyways, good playing on both sides (even though we won both times, against the clan <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->, but the annoyances are even more prevalent I found. I think the command menu could use some work. 99% of the time people would tell me over the mic what they wanted, and then just use the "In Position" menu item so i could hit spacebar and get to them fast. It could really use a "Empty Resource Node Found" item, for starters, and maybe some others. The lower amount of resources is very noticable, but didn't make much of a difference. 3-4 marines with light machine guns are just as good as 1-2 with heavy machine guns. Everything died pretty fast...
On the alien side, it felt like we were really on the verge of losing at any time. We had to take an extremely defensive stance early on (other than a few skulkers rushing to keep the marines on their toes), and had to SLOWLY push back the marines. Sure, over time you can take out fortifications, but early on, there's nothing a skulker can really do against a position with well placed turrets. A smart commander will place them in such a way that there are no "holes" where a skulker can hide and chomp on something. Until that second hive goes up, the aliens are 100% on the defense, and the marines have probably taken the last hive position (if they are smart). By the time the second hive is done building, the marines are already encroaching upon us. It takes both alot of luck and alot of skill to take back what the marines took. And if they are good, I'm not sure it is really possible.
The one thing that I haven't seen yet is a good Lerk / Fade combo. I've heard it can be devastating, but I have yet to see it work well. The most I've seen is a lerk covering a fade while it shoots acid rockets at a position. Also, is it just me or are acid bombs not what they should be? I try them out once in a while, tossing them on unsuspecting marines... a couple times I dropped at least 3-4 as direct hits, and they told me later it didn't seem to do much. It also didn't seem to work well on turrets. Am I just missing my targets?
anyways, there's alot more observations I could make, but this post is already WAY too long for most people to actually read through. If you made it this far, cool <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ravlen
Comments
Anyway, you probably know this already but aim for their Tfacs first, ignore the turrets until the factory is down, lerks are amazing at this. Simply fly above the turrets (they cant aim up) and from there you will a) be able to shoot the Tfac easily, b) be able to drop down behind the Tfac if it isnt properly defended (chomp away) c) at least distract the turrets and allow your guys an easier time as the turrets will continue to shoot at you even if they cant hit and your team can safely step into the open.
Another thing, you may be able to take out whole bases solo in public servers but when DC's are behind the OC's and the aliens are rushing towards you you'll die without back-up.
Aliens should be forced on the defensive. You have to attack the marines from the start, keep them in their bases, stop them getting resources. Just parasite them straight away and then hang around outside chuckling. Dont attack them when they are looking around, only attack when they are distracted (building or getting health). Make them have to fight for every node. Meanwhile your gorge (or gorges if your using two) should have built a RC on every hive node and set up three chambers (most say def chamber first, always handy but not as useful as cloaking if your ambushing, still carapace is always good against lmg, take a few out). Then you should be getting hive2. Early game a heavy hive defense isnt really necessary imo as the marines cant afford to abandon their base or the need for nodes and cant split up a group of four to do two things. There is plenty of time once hive2 is up to start setting up defenses and forward bases.
Another thing, when your skulks get 33 resources have them find a node, let them change to gorge, drop a RC and then change to skulk once they are back to 4 again. This saves your main gorge the need to run across the map and stops resources getting wasted.
Lerk+Fade is very good on public servers, not as sure how long it would last against a group of marines working together properly though, I dont think there is a special combination that guarentees a win. If there was the game would quickly get old. Technically the best thing would be a mixture of Fades and Onos meleeing the marines will lerks cover the whole area with umbra and sporecloud and gorges set up DCs while healing everyone (and of course all the marines are parasited already <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->). I think thats the only combination thats guarenteed to work... not particularly useful though <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
My bile bombs never seem to do enough damage but they have a large radius so I find that for ages (always seems too long) a group of turrets wont be affected and then suddenly the whole lot will go. Against marines it seems to vary (I guess it depends on accuracy and their armour research), sometimes Ill take a marine down in 2, sometimes it takes 4 or 5, very handy though as Ive never seen a single marine that will stand there shooting, they almost always run (those that dont are normally the '2's'). Its worth using, its just a case of picking the right time to use it.
I cant talk about the commander mode (wish I could, as you can tell I like talking <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->). Im not experienced, tried it once when noone else was willing and I quickly decided Id practice on bots first.
Nice post btw, it was enjoyable to read.
[Edit]Bah at glaring typo's[/Edit]