Choking Cloud Of Non-bulletness

InexorableInexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Or - How to deal with Umbra</div> Short answer, I don't have a clue. This is more in reference to the marine's poor, downtrodden turret nest, than the Squad which you can easily give a GL to.

3 Kharaa can take out just about any turret field you could dream of. A single Lerk w/lvl 3 Adrenaline can keep a permanent Umbra cloud up. He can't do anything else, but his Fade buddies have the offensive part covered. It's bad enough that SGs can barely touch you while in Umbra, but now you only have to take out one target to shut down the whole web.

I keep trying to think what I would do as a commander to stop that tactic. Perhaps set up multiple TFs. Then of course I've got to set up even <i>more</i> turrets to cover the blind spots created by the new TFs. And god forbid that NS's cramped hallways are simply too small for a trio of TFs and a dozen turrets.

Probably the most effective would be to simply set up a Phase Gate at every turret factory. Of course then you run into the problem that you're going to have that same Lerk/Fade team using those gates to move to your other SG nests, and take the lot of them down in minutes. Combine that with how hard it is to get a decent group of marines on a public server to go anywhere (they're usually all over the map, and don't feel like jumping through Phase Gates all the time), when you step off a gate you're marine is unconrolled for a second while the screen comes back, and if you happen to step on the gate again while in combat, it could take enough time to work your way back through the portal system that you're too late to do any good.

So to keep this place locked down without requiring a few GL and HMG equipped marines to simply sit there for the rest of the game (which is <b>not</b> going to happen on a pub server), can I get any suggestions as to how I should keep this hive/double vent/forward base from getting taken out by 3 aliens?


  • LichoLicho Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 3858Members, NS1 Playtester
    It's good you don't know .. aliens similary don't have much other chances against GL or siege than to attack attackers .. just like marines must do in this case..
    and btw.. single lerk with lvl3 adrenaline can cast umbra and bite without problems .. it is not neccesary to have fades around (or even 2. .. why 2 fades? why just not 1? or skulk?)
  • ShadowicsShadowics Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7652Members
    (Hasn't played much and not yet as a comm but)
    I would think turrets aren't ment for holding off an alien attack all by themselves. If you have marines with them, some bullets from any weapon still do damage, and grenades, welders and knives aren't affected by an Umbra. You could also try tripmines, which aren't affected either.
  • InexorableInexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members
    Hmmm.... I'ld go with the tripmine idea, but for the fact that the Fade's Acid Rocket would set off any mines in the area. Of course, if they go straight in without testing the area first you might kill a few.

    My problem isn't so much with turrets not being able to hold an area by themselves, but with not being able to hold an area until help arrives. It only takes about 30 seconds to take out a TF with this, so barring some lucky Phase Gate placement your SGs will be shut down <i>long</i> before help arrives. I don't think I'ld be able to convince a marine to simply sit on the turret factory with a GL and pop any Lerks that came by, so I need some other options.
  • NecroNecro &lt;insert non-birthday-related title here&gt; Join Date: 2002-08-09 Member: 1118Members
    simple. use marines <!--emo&:D--><img src='' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • iddqdiddqd Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7596Members, Constellation
    the amount of time it takes to take out a whole area of turrets while umbra is in <b>lvl 3</b> effect is enough time to have a bunch of marines surround them and kill the one lerk.

    tip? dont let them get a lvl 3 umbra and get your guys GLs and get them over there, stat.
  • InexorableInexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members
    edited November 2002
    I'ld love to, really I would. Thing is, I play on pub servers. Have you ever tried to convince the average player that it's in the best interests of the squad the he and his buddy should simply camp out on that turret factory for the rest of the game just in case some aliens show up? I'm not sure what kind of effect those not having those two extra hands will have on my main assault group, but I'm sure it won't be that good.

    -edit: damn you iddqd for posting while I was responding. <!--emo&:p--><img src='' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->

    I'm not talking about a single Lerk, but of a small strike group of aliens, (normaly 2 Fades and a Lerk) which can take down a TF in a matter of seconds. And deny them Umbra? If the aliens are so inept that you are able to deny them 2 hives, there's no way they were going to come up with this anyway.
  • iddqdiddqd Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7596Members, Constellation
    well, if you can get one or two grunts to take out the lerk, then the umbra's off, isnt it?

    aliens dont use umbra as much as they should.
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    The phase gate system is probably the best idea ( they only cost as much as a shottie), but really, if a determined alien team wants to take your base, he's going to do it.

    Oh, and have faith in the public servers, if you show you are a competant comander, and you do a semi-decent job keeping your marines happy, at least 2-3 marines usually will use teh phase gates.

    I was playing today, with heavy armor and a GL, and i was walking to near the computer core hive. Unfortunatly, my squad had the intelligence of slime mold, so they were'nt following orders or backing me up.

    Anyway, a skulk attacked me, and took away all my armor. I told teh commander I needed someone with a welder, or 50 of his RP's would go down the drain. He had me set up a phase gate right outside the comp core hive, then told everyone to go through teh new phase gate, weld legion, and then go for the hive.

    3 guys came and helped me out, and we took down the hive and won the game.

    Have faith in pubs.
  • InexorableInexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members
    Like I said before, if it weren't for one big problem with Phase Gates, I'ld wholeheartedly suggest using them.

    Your marines probably won't be spending a lot of time right beside a gate. With how quickly a compent team of aliens can take down a TF, by the time your marines get out of whatever combat their in, group up near a gate and head through the system, they'll likely be heading one by one into a alien cluster****. The turret system will be down by the time they get there, so the aliens have nothing better to do than sit in a circle around the gate waiting for marines to come through. I might as well put a sign up on the gate which says "Free Marine Snacks".

    I put faith in my marines to do things like build Phase Gates and to weld, or do many other tasks. I do not think I'ld have much luck simply ordering a pair or marines to sit down and do nothing all game, just in case aliens show up. And I don't blame them. Nobody wants to play a game like this for the pleasure of guard duty. If it's a hive we're occupying at least I can keep them busy building a secondary base, and I can be assured that the aliens will be assaulting that point frequently. But what about points like the Holoroom on Hera, or the Messhall on Nancy? Those are both great places strategically, but aren't likely to see combat once the frontline moves on somewhere else.
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    I see your point.

    I had a commander today that put a phase gate on almost every node we controlled...

    Not more than 15 seconds from a telepad, and it only takes you 5-10 to get to where you are going.

    Most times it was shorter.
  • InexorableInexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members
    Hmmmm... Interesting. I'm haven't really been on a Phase Gate much since the patch, so the only experience I have going through one is in 900+ ping situations. It took forever for the game to catch up with my sudden movement. That combined with moronic commanders who'll surround a gate making it impossible to get off before it triggers again and sends you to the next point.

    Did you have any trouble with aliens using the gates against you? And did he set up a turret patch by each one?
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