The Mishandling Of The Veteran Program
CommunistWithAGun
Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
Local Propaganda Guy Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15953Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE (puzl @ Jun 14 2005, 09:22 AM)
CWAG, you don't have to answer. If you feel we don't deserve the benefit of your opinion then you are free to keep it to yourself.
Benjamin was *NOT* asked to continue updating eclipse and veil. He offered to do so himself. Ben is well capable of defending himself, your misinformed attempts to do so will only make things worse.
Although we do ask the PTs for balance input, it is NOT their primary role. They perform the invaluable task of helping us isolate defects and verify they have been fixed.
Also, why have you simply cut and pasted firewaters pt list from the cal forums? If you had read NemesisZero's reply to Firewater's post you would have been supplied with an explanation of what the function of a playtester is. Seems to me like you are simply presenting someone elses argument without even attempting to understand it.
I mean, you've managed to list 3 players from the team currently on top of ENSL division 1, plus a few top Aus/NZ competitive players.. you know, competitive players.. not people who wear a veterans badge.
And finally, [b][/b]. Somehow you've managed to turn an honest request for input ( something many people have been soliciting for a long time ) into some kind of ancient internet drama.
Now go away and stop trying to derail constructive discussion with ancient history.
There are many people who want to discuss NS game balance with us, and recent discussions have clearly demonstrated that anyone willing to remain both polite and focused is listened to.
Im just saying what many people are thinking, Looking at that list, I don't see people that strictly care about NS, I see community idols, Many people don't like me for example, and thats perfectly damn fine with me, but it seems nobody wants secondary opinions, untill, a thread like this happens, its not cool to build up a large sub-community, then one day just throw them away like garbage, how can you do that, then post right in the COMPETITIVE PLAYERS forum, asking for advice, then tell me that
QUOTE
This is not the veterans forum, the question is directed at anyone who feels they have input on competitive ns
Punish me, do whatever you want, but this is how I feel. When I first became a vet and was able to play test I kept thinking to myself "This is so cool that I am helping out" When I was just living a lie, I didn't help at all. I even tried to post constructively based on particular builds. I just think you guys have alot of gall to do those things then come here of all places, to not only tell me you don't expect ex veterans from posting, but to keep my mouth shut if I don't like it? Who's fantasy world is this, yours?
QUOTE
Now go away
QUOTE
There are many people who want to discuss NS game balance with us, and recent discussions have clearly demonstrated that anyone willing to remain both polite and focused is listened to.
So what is it you want, to hear what you want to hear, or peoples honest opinions <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(mu)I was never a vet, they stopped processing the teams allowed into the ATi tourney by the time ktdm rolled around, but it does seem kind of stupid that the veterans group was fully disbanded and now you're asking basically the same group to help test the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
discuss
CWAG, you don't have to answer. If you feel we don't deserve the benefit of your opinion then you are free to keep it to yourself.
Benjamin was *NOT* asked to continue updating eclipse and veil. He offered to do so himself. Ben is well capable of defending himself, your misinformed attempts to do so will only make things worse.
Although we do ask the PTs for balance input, it is NOT their primary role. They perform the invaluable task of helping us isolate defects and verify they have been fixed.
Also, why have you simply cut and pasted firewaters pt list from the cal forums? If you had read NemesisZero's reply to Firewater's post you would have been supplied with an explanation of what the function of a playtester is. Seems to me like you are simply presenting someone elses argument without even attempting to understand it.
I mean, you've managed to list 3 players from the team currently on top of ENSL division 1, plus a few top Aus/NZ competitive players.. you know, competitive players.. not people who wear a veterans badge.
And finally, [b][/b]. Somehow you've managed to turn an honest request for input ( something many people have been soliciting for a long time ) into some kind of ancient internet drama.
Now go away and stop trying to derail constructive discussion with ancient history.
There are many people who want to discuss NS game balance with us, and recent discussions have clearly demonstrated that anyone willing to remain both polite and focused is listened to.
Im just saying what many people are thinking, Looking at that list, I don't see people that strictly care about NS, I see community idols, Many people don't like me for example, and thats perfectly damn fine with me, but it seems nobody wants secondary opinions, untill, a thread like this happens, its not cool to build up a large sub-community, then one day just throw them away like garbage, how can you do that, then post right in the COMPETITIVE PLAYERS forum, asking for advice, then tell me that
QUOTE
This is not the veterans forum, the question is directed at anyone who feels they have input on competitive ns
Punish me, do whatever you want, but this is how I feel. When I first became a vet and was able to play test I kept thinking to myself "This is so cool that I am helping out" When I was just living a lie, I didn't help at all. I even tried to post constructively based on particular builds. I just think you guys have alot of gall to do those things then come here of all places, to not only tell me you don't expect ex veterans from posting, but to keep my mouth shut if I don't like it? Who's fantasy world is this, yours?
QUOTE
Now go away
QUOTE
There are many people who want to discuss NS game balance with us, and recent discussions have clearly demonstrated that anyone willing to remain both polite and focused is listened to.
So what is it you want, to hear what you want to hear, or peoples honest opinions <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->(mu)I was never a vet, they stopped processing the teams allowed into the ATi tourney by the time ktdm rolled around, but it does seem kind of stupid that the veterans group was fully disbanded and now you're asking basically the same group to help test the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
discuss
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
No, I just wanted to discuss the situation, if I wanted to cause problems I'd keep at it in the other thread instead of doing what I was asked, so, if you can't post constructively, don't.
CWAG, we had more than one discussion so far, and as you know, I always tried to understand your position, but I can see no - <i>no</i> - reason for this sudden outburst of nostalgia for a program that, when closed, was not really bemoaned by the majority of its participants. I see no arguments, I see no constrictive approach, all I see is you claiming that 'we, the devs', mishandled first the vet program and now come crawling back to the very same people, which would be nonsensical even if the current devs had been part of the team back then (which none but Flayra were).
We value competitive feedback. We always did, which was why we transported a large number of vets into the PTs (two of them became PT Leads); we simply considered the vet program in its then achieved form unsuited for its purpose.
Sorry, but all your posts sum up to from where I'm standing is "I want my yellow icon back!".
Thats a little hypocritical considering you rehashed an arguement that was resolved in another thread until you posted in another topic, are you really going to get a better answer if you post it here, in another topic.
edit: I mean really, if it was about a silly icon and beta testing I'd have thrown a hissy over a year ago, not now
Seriously, if you are dissatisfied with the direction NS is heading, I have even less of an idea why you chose to put this up around the veteran program. The vets were really the least of changes that happened to the development process between 2.0 and now, after all.
if the vets program didn't work in it's old form, but you still need competitive feedback why didn't you just change it (like cut all the idiots or something)?
Now it's just the same thing only the "vets" test it alongside everyone else, instead of before them
it just seems inefficient
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that exactly what happened? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh but i do!!
I mean, the blue one is cool and all, but I wub the golden medal! =]
I don't mind personally.. I went inactive somewhere around 2.1s.
But I stand with moomin on this one.
edit -1 spelling.
<span style='color:red'>Locked</span>.