<!--QuoteBegin-Garet Jax+Jun 12 2005, 04:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Jun 12 2005, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrGunner+Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrGunner @ Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ride on the clue train: He's European and the comparison you use from the American scene is completely irrelevant. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT.
This will start a flame war- but at the end of this day, this is nothing more than a gaming forum.
Here goes.
The Americans have a tendancy to believe that nothing else exists outside of their country. The competitive scene in the U.S. may be fine, but it's a huge problem in the EU. And just because the problem doesn't exist in the U.S., doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist at all.
(As another example, I remember seeing a thread entitled "Demos of the best teams in the world". It was only an exi/terror CAL demo, where neither team had the ability to finish off the other team. But my point is that the poster assumed his countries players are <i>so</i> much better than those he doesn't know about.
It can't happen, but I'd love to see exi play knife with even pings. Of course, I could just quote the last NA-EU match (3-1 to us, kthx) but I'm sure you can explain that one away)
I look forward to your responses! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow a Euro complaining about ignorance...
European clans always discredit American clans because they seem to think the only thing that allows American clans to exist is a ping difference. And to quote a NA-EU match is simply ignorant, it was played on a Euro server ,iirc, and a much larger emphasis is placed on this tournament in europe than is in the united states.
<!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrGunner+Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrGunner @ Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ride on the clue train: He's European and the comparison you use from the American scene is completely irrelevant. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL america...
hey fana your right, I had such fun laughing at another nation there!
I do see a huge difference in clan activity, but its exam time for many of the players, so activity should pick up again soon.
<!--QuoteBegin-Garet Jax+Jun 12 2005, 04:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Jun 12 2005, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrGunner+Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrGunner @ Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ride on the clue train: He's European and the comparison you use from the American scene is completely irrelevant. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT.
This will start a flame war- but at the end of this day, this is nothing more than a gaming forum.
Here goes.
The Americans have a tendancy to believe that nothing else exists outside of their country. The competitive scene in the U.S. may be fine, but it's a huge problem in the EU. And just because the problem doesn't exist in the U.S., doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist at all.
(As another example, I remember seeing a thread entitled "Demos of the best teams in the world". It was only an exi/terror CAL demo, where neither team had the ability to finish off the other team. But my point is that the poster assumed his countries players are <i>so</i> much better than those he doesn't know about.
It can't happen, but I'd love to see exi play knife with even pings. Of course, I could just quote the last NA-EU match (3-1 to us, kthx) but I'm sure you can explain that one away)
I look forward to your responses! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Lol... I like how you quote the old NA vs EU match, but hey, let's not go into that. I haven't started drama in <b>days</b> now, and I'm damn proud of myself. PS: gtfo eurotroll
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-Garet Jax+Jun 12 2005, 05:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Jun 12 2005, 05:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's too hard for a new clan to get into competitive NS.
With a game like Counter-Strike, a new 5-man team has a chance of getting something against a more experienced clan, but there's <b>no</b> chance of that happening in NS.
If you go onto #ns.search, there will always be around 5-10 clans that play often; and it's so obvious when a newbie clan joins and search a PCW. Results in a battering. Results in the new clan quitting.
I just hope Nexus will help to end this.
(Incidentally- I thought blockscripts wasn't used in America; it was just for us EU players? And, yes, I know many people who have quit NS because of blockscripts (thanks Voogru. I really hope leap-bite skulks aren't owning you like they used to; and it was worth many people quitting (oh and don't bother quoting population stats- NS is not as populated as it used to be in the EU))). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't know what you're talking about. I'm on my 3rd run doing it now.
Anyone that wants to get in a clan from startup, and is serious about it, contact me. There are hundreds of ways to get in, and none of them are that hard if you're willing to learn.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rammstien+Jun 12 2005, 03:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rammstien @ Jun 12 2005, 03:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 12 2005, 12:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 12 2005, 12:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also bunnyhopping is FAR from "natural" as well, who the hell instinctivly thinks "well jumping and strafing while moving my mouse is probably faster then just holding forward".
on a side note thats probably the biggest reason its hard to learn the game <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You dont have to know how to bunnyhop to play ns well, sure it helps you but you can compete without it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no but its really hard to play without bhop
<!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 12 2005, 04:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 12 2005, 04:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Rammstien+Jun 12 2005, 03:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rammstien @ Jun 12 2005, 03:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 12 2005, 12:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 12 2005, 12:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also bunnyhopping is FAR from "natural" as well, who the hell instinctivly thinks "well jumping and strafing while moving my mouse is probably faster then just holding forward".
on a side note thats probably the biggest reason its hard to learn the game <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You dont have to know how to bunnyhop to play ns well, sure it helps you but you can compete without it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> no but its really hard to play without bhop
think admiral if stuff reg'd. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, that's sort of true and sort of not. Back when OSS was a pretty good clan, Admiral didn't know how to bhop. He used it to his advantage (tank). EDIT: Ok, for some reason, I just repeated what you just said. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Rammstien+Jun 12 2005, 10:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rammstien @ Jun 12 2005, 10:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Garet Jax+Jun 12 2005, 04:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Jun 12 2005, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrGunner+Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrGunner @ Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ride on the clue train: He's European and the comparison you use from the American scene is completely irrelevant. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT.
This will start a flame war- but at the end of this day, this is nothing more than a gaming forum.
Here goes.
The Americans have a tendancy to believe that nothing else exists outside of their country. The competitive scene in the U.S. may be fine, but it's a huge problem in the EU. And just because the problem doesn't exist in the U.S., doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist at all.
(As another example, I remember seeing a thread entitled "Demos of the best teams in the world". It was only an exi/terror CAL demo, where neither team had the ability to finish off the other team. But my point is that the poster assumed his countries players are <i>so</i> much better than those he doesn't know about.
It can't happen, but I'd love to see exi play knife with even pings. Of course, I could just quote the last NA-EU match (3-1 to us, kthx) but I'm sure you can explain that one away)
I look forward to your responses! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow a Euro complaining about ignorance...
European clans always discredit American clans because they seem to think the only thing that allows American clans to exist is a ping difference. And to quote a NA-EU match is simply ignorant, it was played on a Euro server ,iirc, and a much larger emphasis is placed on this tournament in europe than is in the united states. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ignorance?
You really think you Americans would have played 4 rounds on an EU server? No, 2 rounds on a US server.
At least I masqueraded my troll post with some factual content.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't know what you're talking about. I'm on my 3rd run doing it now.
Anyone that wants to get in a clan from startup, and is serious about it, contact me. There are hundreds of ways to get in, and none of them are that hard if you're willing to learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Garet Jax+Jun 12 2005, 05:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Jun 12 2005, 05:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Rammstien+Jun 12 2005, 10:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rammstien @ Jun 12 2005, 10:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Garet Jax+Jun 12 2005, 04:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Garet Jax @ Jun 12 2005, 04:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MrGunner+Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrGunner @ Jun 12 2005, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-fanatic+Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fanatic @ Jun 12 2005, 10:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ride on the clue train: He's European and the comparison you use from the American scene is completely irrelevant. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> QFT.
This will start a flame war- but at the end of this day, this is nothing more than a gaming forum.
Here goes.
The Americans have a tendancy to believe that nothing else exists outside of their country. The competitive scene in the U.S. may be fine, but it's a huge problem in the EU. And just because the problem doesn't exist in the U.S., doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist at all.
(As another example, I remember seeing a thread entitled "Demos of the best teams in the world". It was only an exi/terror CAL demo, where neither team had the ability to finish off the other team. But my point is that the poster assumed his countries players are <i>so</i> much better than those he doesn't know about.
It can't happen, but I'd love to see exi play knife with even pings. Of course, I could just quote the last NA-EU match (3-1 to us, kthx) but I'm sure you can explain that one away)
I look forward to your responses! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wow a Euro complaining about ignorance...
European clans always discredit American clans because they seem to think the only thing that allows American clans to exist is a ping difference. And to quote a NA-EU match is simply ignorant, it was played on a Euro server ,iirc, and a much larger emphasis is placed on this tournament in europe than is in the united states. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ignorance?
You really think you Americans would have played 4 rounds on an EU server? No, 2 rounds on a US server.
At least I masqueraded my troll post with some factual content.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't know what you're talking about. I'm on my 3rd run doing it now.
Anyone that wants to get in a clan from startup, and is serious about it, contact me. There are hundreds of ways to get in, and none of them are that hard if you're willing to learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you European? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hook, line, sinker
I dont think that competitive ns is going through a decline, but there will always be top teams leaving the game because they dont feel there is enough competition or they dont think that the game is taking them anywhere or the players get lives. There are many reasons, but teams do die and players do leave. But with ns being such a small game with a small community where every top player knows who is good and who isnt, having a few top players leave the game can hurt the balance of the competitive community.
To the scripting point, I dont use any script except for a pistol script. I use mwheeldown +jump as both a marine and alien and just turn on the pistol script as a marine. There is really no need for a pistol script as a marine if you have a good sensitive mouse but I do not. Scripts dont make the player, there are plenty of players that script and suck balls, and some players that dont use any scripts (meb) and are very good.
<!--QuoteBegin-Rammstien+Jun 12 2005, 03:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rammstien @ Jun 12 2005, 03:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kalimxs+Jun 12 2005, 12:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kalimxs @ Jun 12 2005, 12:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> also bunnyhopping is FAR from "natural" as well, who the hell instinctivly thinks "well jumping and strafing while moving my mouse is probably faster then just holding forward".
on a side note thats probably the biggest reason its hard to learn the game <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You dont have to know how to bunnyhop to play ns well, sure it helps you but you can compete without it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's not really true... What I think NS needs most is more access for nub clans/teams. CS has the CS cal open, and then thier multiple upper eshalons. NS could use something similar. There are alot of absolutly terrible server based teams and small friend groups you see around all the time, and really, they have no chance of even holding a candle to even the lower level of cal omega teams. The problem is CS clans wanting to open NS devisions and small server based clans who basicly just recruit thier fun to play with regulars are WAY too far below the standards of cal omega compared to how an equivalent CS clan would be in cal open.
We need more leagues for nub clans so they get the chance to scrim against clans at thier own skill level without getting owned by the upper eshalons, and we need more avenues of access to allow these guys to move up when their teams acctually reach the point where they can contend with omega level clans. Most of you who have scrimmed or matched whois know we may have potential, but at the moment we are pretty much still down there around the lower levels of the cal omega teams. I'm not one of the best players in my clan, but I still absolutly trash pub allstars and server based clans alike without batting an eyelid. If players like me are making up the lowwest end NS clans, then the NS clan scene way too difficult to enter for your average player.
Part of the success of CS is that everyone and their dog has been in at least one CS clan at one point or another. I'd be willing to bet that a good 80% of NS's current players have never even come close to recruitment anywhere.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 12 2005, 09:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 12 2005, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are alot of absolutly terrible server based teams and small friend groups you see around all the time, and really, they have no chance of even holding a candle to even the lower level of cal omega teams. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I GUESS YOU'VE NEVER SEEN DL PLAY!
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Americans have a tendancy to believe that nothing else exists outside of their country. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, and euros have a tendency to believe everyone outside europe is, simply put, worse at everything. furthermore, many euros have an attitude that the only reason our top clans arent driving over your top clans is because
I guess he also missed gg tying slot1 and fae getting third seed.
On the original topic though, scripting itself makes up such a minute amount of the difference between clan people and pub people that it's really not even worth looking at. What makes most of the difference in the level of play from pub play to top clan play is knowledge of the game, especially regarding strategy, and this is a huge reason you don't see the same number of clans as a game like counterstrike. Anyone can call "rush B flash middle" for cs, but knowing how to react and approach stuff in NS is exponentially more complex. Fundamentally, this is why the game is so inaccessable for new people, but it's also what makes it special.
If new clans are losing horribly it's mainly because they haven't learned how to manage the game, not because a skulk on the other team had a 3 jump script.
<!--QuoteBegin-DrFurious+Jun 13 2005, 01:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DrFurious @ Jun 13 2005, 01:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I guess he also missed gg tying slot1 and fae getting third seed.
On the original topic though, scripting itself makes up such a minute amount of the difference between clan people and pub people that it's really not even worth looking at. What makes most of the difference in the level of play from pub play to top clan play is knowledge of the game, especially regarding strategy, and this is a huge reason you don't see the same number of clans as a game like counterstrike. Anyone can call "rush B flash middle" for cs, but knowing how to react and approach stuff in NS is exponentially more complex. Fundamentally, this is why the game is so inaccessable for new people, but it's also what makes it special.
If new clans are losing horribly it's mainly because they haven't learned how to manage the game, not because a skulk on the other team had a 3 jump script. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> gg and fae are good teams, I know alot of the guys who play for both and they should have no problem doing well in cal, either this season or next. Tell me FAT or on|e tied a team of the calibur of slot1 and I would be owned, but gg and fae prove nothing.
I don’t want to know how many competitive players use modified versions of ns like with black walls, modified sounds, etc regardless if they’re NA or EURO.
Comparing to that possible advantages scripting is a minor issue.
I don’t want to know how many competitive players use modified versions of ns like with black walls, modified sounds, etc regardless if they’re NA or EURO.
Comparing to that possible advantages scripting is a minor issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> did you even read my post
first post in a while, I should be constructive... or I could just point and laugh and ask when the hell you think clan ns was even remotely competetive :/
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jun 12 2005, 02:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jun 12 2005, 02:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-2 of Eight+Jun 12 2005, 09:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (2 of Eight @ Jun 12 2005, 09:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's nice to see more people seeing the problem here. The NS devs are supporting bunnyhopping - saying it's an intended part of the game. Except that they've done nothing at all to introduce new players to it... you always have to find out from someone else, or search forums, etc. Why? If it's a part of the game, put it in the manual or something. <b>Teach people about it</b>. There's one way of making the gap shorter. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately some people do not want to learn and do not keep open minds. Believe me I have tried to teach people, and if they aren't cooperative, then its a waste of time.
A lot of my experiences with NSlearn were to me a waste of time. There were a few players that actually used what I taught them, and others who just went back to the way they played, even after learning a more effective method. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What's better:
- having information out there that is written by or at least officially endorsed by the creators of a game, so that players know that this is pertinent information tha they should take on board
or
- having no information whatsoever on the effectiveness/importance/allowance of advanced techniques like bunnyhopping, mid-jump air control, pistol scripts, mousewheelbinds, custom sprites and many more aspects of the game that give rise to such heated debates as this, and leave a player who might be thinking about playing NS competitively wondering who is right, wth is going on and whether it's really worth the bother.
---
To give you an example, I am one of these players. If I don't see something on the in-game control menu then I frown upon changing the config to give me an advantage. There are some examples in the following list that I would use, because my personal opinion or 'gaming morals' tell me that I don't gain a significant advantage by using them; for instance 'say_team' binds.
But, were there a statement made by the Devs that:<ul><li>Medpack shout + team text: "medpack" (and equivalents)</li><li>Custom shotgun sprites</li><li>Custom HUD sprites (et alia)</li><li>Bhop scripts</li><li>Mousebutton press + release = 2 shots (pistol 'script'/bind)</li><li>Blink/Swipe scripts</li><li>Changing the colour of your tracers</li><li>Having different .cfgs for Commander/Marine/Alien/different classes or weapon loadouts</li></ul> ...were OK, I and others would at least know where we stand.
We'd know that making bullets more visible so that you can avoid Marine fire more easily is OK. We'd know that firing bullets faster than you are physically capable of is OK. We'd know that having the previously unknown (as in: exact) hit locations of the shotgun visible on your screen is OK. We'd know that having a reduced HUD which improves visibility is OK. We'd know that being able to automatically time or synchronise an attack to perfectly regulate an optimum adrenaline use is OK. We'd know that being able to perfectly time the startup jumps to achieve maximum velocity as an Alien is OK. We'd know that implementing a script that saves you keypresses, time and or thought; thus allowing you to devote more attention to the game as a whole, is OK.
---
My personal opinion is that I'd rather play against a player who can only use the in-game menu to change his settings. That way at least there's a cap to how far he can out-play me through customisation. If he wants to bunnyhop to escape, fine; he just has to do it the hard way. Maybe if he runs into a Marine in his escape he'll have just one more thing to think about and take just that 1/2 a second longer to react, which could cost him his life. That's the way I see it, and until I get some sort of opinion from the Devs on what is acceptable and what is not, I will never play NS competitively. I can accept the use of the aforementioned if there is an official statement that promotes their use, in that case my morals can be put to one side.
---
But at the moment playing a game where my physical skill and coordination is automated to a personally unacceptable degree doesn't disagree with me.
Bunnyhopping isn't mentioned in the "'Official' NS Manual" nor in NiteOwl's "Community Manual". While the 'official' manual is admitted as being outdated (its last update was way back in Feb '04), none of the information linked to from the main page makes any mention of the movement options available to both teams. What's a newbie supposed to assume? Speedhax?
I think that the manual seriously needs addressing in light of the fact that the My Games listing is fast approaching; something that will bring another influx of players to NS (not to mention UWE). If we want them to stick around, it's better to guide them into competitive play, which we all know is the only surefire way of keeping players playing any one game for a long period of time (say the same long period of time it might take for Source or UWE's first commercial title to be released).
Anyway I'm sure the Devs know exactly what this thread's about. If I sound like a spoilt whining brat, let me tell you I'm not. I know the difficulties involved in making and maintaining a Mod, that's why I think it's important to give back some community-based feedback.
[Edit] NiteOlm !!?? [Edit2] Surely the Manual must have been edited more recently since it has the structure parasite sprite...
So I thought I'd read up a little: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93984' target='_blank'>here's what I found</a>
So technically a bhop script is a risky business. But still Blink-Swipe scripts don't take up that much time and are still of significant (to me) advantage.
---
But that aside this isn't a scripts debate, but more a thread for the arguments for/against officially endorsing the aforementioned game alterations and their ilk.
People were aware of all the information not available to noobs and put together a zip file with everything you should need. Props to knife as it is their creation.
NS is a very complicated game. Even after you know how to play and are good with all the different classes and skills, there is still an infinite amount to learn about it. I remember how hard bunny hopping was when i was first learning it. The first week I was learning, I had it reversed in my mind and would always start to go backwards. It was pretty hilarious, that i could only bhop backwards. Now i've done it so much that its second nature.
When i recruited vapox from pub servers and he played a couple rounds with us, we told him the reason we kept putting him on hive skulk is because he was the best skulk we had. He really didn't believe us because he couldn't bhop that well. What made him an incredible skulk was that he played with his head and always outsmarted the marine, more than any of us with our leet-sauce scripts.
GG (a new clan) tied us last night because they put a phase gate in vent that the slot1 guys choked on. Our hive skulk died once, then hesitated trying to decide whether or not to drop bio or vent. Add in HBS getting stuck as a fade on the upper level of vent and dying and early HA and its GG.
The hive skulk was vapox. So in one paragraph he's amazing because he's a smart tactical skullk, and in another we have a second hive dropped at 9:00.
Point is, scripts aren't what competitive ns is about, and its damaging to you as a player to say that you aren't good because you don't have scripts. Scripts wouldn't have helped vapox get that hive down, and he doesn't need them to be an amazing skulk. Its a complicated game and it takes time and patience and a team to get good at it. There are people willing to teach you, just scrim a better clan and ask for tips after, they will always help you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Jun 13 2005, 07:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Jun 13 2005, 07:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So I thought I'd read up a little: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93984' target='_blank'>here's what I found</a>
So technically a bhop script is a risky business. But still Blink-Swipe scripts don't take up that much time and are still of significant (to me) advantage.
---
But that aside this isn't a scripts debate, but more a thread for the arguments for/against officially endorsing the aforementioned game alterations and their ilk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> BLINK/SWIPE SCRIPTS ARE A MYTH. NO GOOD FADE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD USES BLINK SWIPE SCRIPTS. IF YOU ARE A FADE AND YOU USE BLINK SWIPE SCRIPTS YOU ARE NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS YOU THINK.
There is no script that bhops. The bhop script as people call it is only a 3jump script. What it does is sends the jump command three times for each time you press the button. This is so you jump as soon as you hit the ground. You can easily replicate this without a script by binding your mouse wheel in both directions to jump and spamming that as you hit the ground. <b>There is much more to bunnyhopping than this.</b> You still need to be alternating your strafe keys with your left hand and controling your pitch and angle with the mouse. It is a complicated process that requires the use of three patterns.
1: strafing left or right depending on where you are looking. 2: looking left or right depending on where you are strafing. 3: jumping
You don't just hold down a script button to bunny hop. Its a complex skill. It takes HOURS of practice to learn. And in the end. it doesn't really matter that much, because if you bhop across a distance at a marine with good aim you wont make it half way there.
To not derail the thread any longer, and I apologize for being suckered into talking about scripting, (it just bothers me to see such rampant misconceptions) I want to talk about the original post.
The thing that hurt CAL this season was teams that would form, get scheduled, and then not show up for their first two matches. The 2 new teams that they were scheduled against, would have forfeit wins which really messed up the standings and future schedules.
If you are starting out in comp ns, you will get demolished in every scrim. This is because the teams that scrim, scrim a lot. Thats why they are so good that they demolish you. Look at some of the xfire profiles. For people in mid omega to mid delta range. People in the middle of CAL-NS, some people have 500-1000 hours logged in ns, just on xfire.
thats 10-20 WEEKS playing ns as if it was a full time job 40 hours a week. So unless you've played 8 hours a day for the last 6 months don't expect to be good enough to beat a mid level team.
I don’t want to know how many competitive players use modified versions of ns like with black walls, modified sounds, etc regardless if they’re NA or EURO.
Comparing to that possible advantages scripting is a minor issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i bet more people have used full on hacks then have used blackwalls.
Comments
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT.
This will start a flame war- but at the end of this day, this is nothing more than a gaming forum.
Here goes.
The Americans have a tendancy to believe that nothing else exists outside of their country. The competitive scene in the U.S. may be fine, but it's a huge problem in the EU. And just because the problem doesn't exist in the U.S., doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist at all.
(As another example, I remember seeing a thread entitled "Demos of the best teams in the world". It was only an exi/terror CAL demo, where neither team had the ability to finish off the other team. But my point is that the poster assumed his countries players are <i>so</i> much better than those he doesn't know about.
It can't happen, but I'd love to see exi play knife with even pings. Of course, I could just quote the last NA-EU match (3-1 to us, kthx) but I'm sure you can explain that one away)
I look forward to your responses! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow a Euro complaining about ignorance...
European clans always discredit American clans because they seem to think the only thing that allows American clans to exist is a ping difference. And to quote a NA-EU match is simply ignorant, it was played on a Euro server ,iirc, and a much larger emphasis is placed on this tournament in europe than is in the united states.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL america...
hey fana your right, I had such fun laughing at another nation there!
I do see a huge difference in clan activity, but its exam time for many of the players, so activity should pick up again soon.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT.
This will start a flame war- but at the end of this day, this is nothing more than a gaming forum.
Here goes.
The Americans have a tendancy to believe that nothing else exists outside of their country. The competitive scene in the U.S. may be fine, but it's a huge problem in the EU. And just because the problem doesn't exist in the U.S., doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist at all.
(As another example, I remember seeing a thread entitled "Demos of the best teams in the world". It was only an exi/terror CAL demo, where neither team had the ability to finish off the other team. But my point is that the poster assumed his countries players are <i>so</i> much better than those he doesn't know about.
It can't happen, but I'd love to see exi play knife with even pings. Of course, I could just quote the last NA-EU match (3-1 to us, kthx) but I'm sure you can explain that one away)
I look forward to your responses! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol... I like how you quote the old NA vs EU match, but hey, let's not go into that. I haven't started drama in <b>days</b> now, and I'm damn proud of myself. PS: gtfo eurotroll
With a game like Counter-Strike, a new 5-man team has a chance of getting something against a more experienced clan, but there's <b>no</b> chance of that happening in NS.
If you go onto #ns.search, there will always be around 5-10 clans that play often; and it's so obvious when a newbie clan joins and search a PCW. Results in a battering. Results in the new clan quitting.
I just hope Nexus will help to end this.
(Incidentally- I thought blockscripts wasn't used in America; it was just for us EU players? And, yes, I know many people who have quit NS because of blockscripts (thanks Voogru. I really hope leap-bite skulks aren't owning you like they used to; and it was worth many people quitting (oh and don't bother quoting population stats- NS is not as populated as it used to be in the EU))). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't know what you're talking about. I'm on my 3rd run doing it now.
Anyone that wants to get in a clan from startup, and is serious about it, contact me. There are hundreds of ways to get in, and none of them are that hard if you're willing to learn.
on a side note thats probably the biggest reason its hard to learn the game <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You dont have to know how to bunnyhop to play ns well, sure it helps you but you can compete without it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no but its really hard to play without bhop
think admiral if stuff reg'd.
on a side note thats probably the biggest reason its hard to learn the game <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You dont have to know how to bunnyhop to play ns well, sure it helps you but you can compete without it <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no but its really hard to play without bhop
think admiral if stuff reg'd. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, that's sort of true and sort of not. Back when OSS was a pretty good clan, Admiral didn't know how to bhop. He used it to his advantage (tank).
EDIT: Ok, for some reason, I just repeated what you just said. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT.
This will start a flame war- but at the end of this day, this is nothing more than a gaming forum.
Here goes.
The Americans have a tendancy to believe that nothing else exists outside of their country. The competitive scene in the U.S. may be fine, but it's a huge problem in the EU. And just because the problem doesn't exist in the U.S., doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist at all.
(As another example, I remember seeing a thread entitled "Demos of the best teams in the world". It was only an exi/terror CAL demo, where neither team had the ability to finish off the other team. But my point is that the poster assumed his countries players are <i>so</i> much better than those he doesn't know about.
It can't happen, but I'd love to see exi play knife with even pings. Of course, I could just quote the last NA-EU match (3-1 to us, kthx) but I'm sure you can explain that one away)
I look forward to your responses! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow a Euro complaining about ignorance...
European clans always discredit American clans because they seem to think the only thing that allows American clans to exist is a ping difference. And to quote a NA-EU match is simply ignorant, it was played on a Euro server ,iirc, and a much larger emphasis is placed on this tournament in europe than is in the united states. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ignorance?
You really think you Americans would have played 4 rounds on an EU server? No, 2 rounds on a US server.
<!--QuoteBegin-JmmsBnndZeroZeroSeven+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsBnndZeroZeroSeven)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PS: gtfo eurotroll<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least I masqueraded my troll post with some factual content.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't know what you're talking about. I'm on my 3rd run doing it now.
Anyone that wants to get in a clan from startup, and is serious about it, contact me. There are hundreds of ways to get in, and none of them are that hard if you're willing to learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you European?
NOTHING IMPORTANT ANYWAY, M I RITE?
NS isin't going anywhere, these topics are so beta 5ish
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right I guess he should have realized that euros cry and quit when they lose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, he should've realized that the Euro scene is smaller and less active than the american one, especially amongst the lesser skilled clans. While the European top clans are pretty much always around looking for practices, the new clans only play once in a while and can be hard to find for other newer clans.
But hey, let's all be ignorant ****wits like you -- it's so much more fun. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
QFT.
This will start a flame war- but at the end of this day, this is nothing more than a gaming forum.
Here goes.
The Americans have a tendancy to believe that nothing else exists outside of their country. The competitive scene in the U.S. may be fine, but it's a huge problem in the EU. And just because the problem doesn't exist in the U.S., doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist at all.
(As another example, I remember seeing a thread entitled "Demos of the best teams in the world". It was only an exi/terror CAL demo, where neither team had the ability to finish off the other team. But my point is that the poster assumed his countries players are <i>so</i> much better than those he doesn't know about.
It can't happen, but I'd love to see exi play knife with even pings. Of course, I could just quote the last NA-EU match (3-1 to us, kthx) but I'm sure you can explain that one away)
I look forward to your responses! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow a Euro complaining about ignorance...
European clans always discredit American clans because they seem to think the only thing that allows American clans to exist is a ping difference. And to quote a NA-EU match is simply ignorant, it was played on a Euro server ,iirc, and a much larger emphasis is placed on this tournament in europe than is in the united states. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ignorance?
You really think you Americans would have played 4 rounds on an EU server? No, 2 rounds on a US server.
<!--QuoteBegin-JmmsBnndZeroZeroSeven+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JmmsBnndZeroZeroSeven)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PS: gtfo eurotroll<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least I masqueraded my troll post with some factual content.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Don't know what you're talking about. I'm on my 3rd run doing it now.
Anyone that wants to get in a clan from startup, and is serious about it, contact me. There are hundreds of ways to get in, and none of them are that hard if you're willing to learn.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you European? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
hook, line, sinker
To the scripting point, I dont use any script except for a pistol script. I use mwheeldown +jump as both a marine and alien and just turn on the pistol script as a marine. There is really no need for a pistol script as a marine if you have a good sensitive mouse but I do not. Scripts dont make the player, there are plenty of players that script and suck balls, and some players that dont use any scripts (meb) and are very good.
To the euros, <3
on a side note thats probably the biggest reason its hard to learn the game <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You dont have to know how to bunnyhop to play ns well, sure it helps you but you can compete without it <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not really true... What I think NS needs most is more access for nub clans/teams. CS has the CS cal open, and then thier multiple upper eshalons. NS could use something similar. There are alot of absolutly terrible server based teams and small friend groups you see around all the time, and really, they have no chance of even holding a candle to even the lower level of cal omega teams. The problem is CS clans wanting to open NS devisions and small server based clans who basicly just recruit thier fun to play with regulars are WAY too far below the standards of cal omega compared to how an equivalent CS clan would be in cal open.
We need more leagues for nub clans so they get the chance to scrim against clans at thier own skill level without getting owned by the upper eshalons, and we need more avenues of access to allow these guys to move up when their teams acctually reach the point where they can contend with omega level clans. Most of you who have scrimmed or matched whois know we may have potential, but at the moment we are pretty much still down there around the lower levels of the cal omega teams. I'm not one of the best players in my clan, but I still absolutly trash pub allstars and server based clans alike without batting an eyelid. If players like me are making up the lowwest end NS clans, then the NS clan scene way too difficult to enter for your average player.
Part of the success of CS is that everyone and their dog has been in at least one CS clan at one point or another. I'd be willing to bet that a good 80% of NS's current players have never even come close to recruitment anywhere.
I GUESS YOU'VE NEVER SEEN DL PLAY!
yeah, and euros have a tendency to believe everyone outside europe is, simply put, worse at everything. furthermore, many euros have an attitude that the only reason our top clans arent driving over your top clans is because
-rates
-scripts
-hacked models (yes, ive heard this)
and other crap americans are heard to be using. and then theres the ping difference, obviously.
sorry to say, but we're exactly the same ****heads when it comes to transatlantic relations.
On the original topic though, scripting itself makes up such a minute amount of the difference between clan people and pub people that it's really not even worth looking at. What makes most of the difference in the level of play from pub play to top clan play is knowledge of the game, especially regarding strategy, and this is a huge reason you don't see the same number of clans as a game like counterstrike. Anyone can call "rush B flash middle" for cs, but knowing how to react and approach stuff in NS is exponentially more complex. Fundamentally, this is why the game is so inaccessable for new people, but it's also what makes it special.
If new clans are losing horribly it's mainly because they haven't learned how to manage the game, not because a skulk on the other team had a 3 jump script.
On the original topic though, scripting itself makes up such a minute amount of the difference between clan people and pub people that it's really not even worth looking at. What makes most of the difference in the level of play from pub play to top clan play is knowledge of the game, especially regarding strategy, and this is a huge reason you don't see the same number of clans as a game like counterstrike. Anyone can call "rush B flash middle" for cs, but knowing how to react and approach stuff in NS is exponentially more complex. Fundamentally, this is why the game is so inaccessable for new people, but it's also what makes it special.
If new clans are losing horribly it's mainly because they haven't learned how to manage the game, not because a skulk on the other team had a 3 jump script. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
gg and fae are good teams, I know alot of the guys who play for both and they should have no problem doing well in cal, either this season or next. Tell me FAT or on|e tied a team of the calibur of slot1 and I would be owned, but gg and fae prove nothing.
-rates
-scripts
-hacked models (yes, ive heard this)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don’t want to know how many competitive players use modified versions of ns like with black walls, modified sounds, etc regardless if they’re NA or EURO.
Comparing to that possible advantages scripting is a minor issue.
-rates
-scripts
-hacked models (yes, ive heard this)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don’t want to know how many competitive players use modified versions of ns like with black walls, modified sounds, etc regardless if they’re NA or EURO.
Comparing to that possible advantages scripting is a minor issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
did you even read my post
The NS devs are supporting bunnyhopping - saying it's an intended part of the game. Except that they've done nothing at all to introduce new players to it... you always have to find out from someone else, or search forums, etc. Why? If it's a part of the game, put it in the manual or something. <b>Teach people about it</b>.
There's one way of making the gap shorter. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately some people do not want to learn and do not keep open minds. Believe me I have tried to teach people, and if they aren't cooperative, then its a waste of time.
A lot of my experiences with NSlearn were to me a waste of time. There were a few players that actually used what I taught them, and others who just went back to the way they played, even after learning a more effective method. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's better:
- having information out there that is written by or at least officially endorsed by the creators of a game, so that players know that this is pertinent information tha they should take on board
or
- having no information whatsoever on the effectiveness/importance/allowance of advanced techniques like bunnyhopping, mid-jump air control, pistol scripts, mousewheelbinds, custom sprites and many more aspects of the game that give rise to such heated debates as this, and leave a player who might be thinking about playing NS competitively wondering who is right, wth is going on and whether it's really worth the bother.
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To give you an example, I am one of these players. If I don't see something on the in-game control menu then I frown upon changing the config to give me an advantage. There are some examples in the following list that I would use, because my personal opinion or 'gaming morals' tell me that I don't gain a significant advantage by using them; for instance 'say_team' binds.
But, were there a statement made by the Devs that:<ul><li>Medpack shout + team text: "medpack" (and equivalents)</li><li>Custom shotgun sprites</li><li>Custom HUD sprites (et alia)</li><li>Bhop scripts</li><li>Mousebutton press + release = 2 shots (pistol 'script'/bind)</li><li>Blink/Swipe scripts</li><li>Changing the colour of your tracers</li><li>Having different .cfgs for Commander/Marine/Alien/different classes or weapon loadouts</li></ul>
...were OK, I and others would at least know where we stand.
We'd know that making bullets more visible so that you can avoid Marine fire more easily is OK.
We'd know that firing bullets faster than you are physically capable of is OK.
We'd know that having the previously unknown (as in: exact) hit locations of the shotgun visible on your screen is OK.
We'd know that having a reduced HUD which improves visibility is OK.
We'd know that being able to automatically time or synchronise an attack to perfectly regulate an optimum adrenaline use is OK.
We'd know that being able to perfectly time the startup jumps to achieve maximum velocity as an Alien is OK.
We'd know that implementing a script that saves you keypresses, time and or thought; thus allowing you to devote more attention to the game as a whole, is OK.
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My personal opinion is that I'd rather play against a player who can only use the in-game menu to change his settings. That way at least there's a cap to how far he can out-play me through customisation. If he wants to bunnyhop to escape, fine; he just has to do it the hard way. Maybe if he runs into a Marine in his escape he'll have just one more thing to think about and take just that 1/2 a second longer to react, which could cost him his life. That's the way I see it, and until I get some sort of opinion from the Devs on what is acceptable and what is not, I will never play NS competitively. I can accept the use of the aforementioned if there is an official statement that promotes their use, in that case my morals can be put to one side.
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But at the moment playing a game where my physical skill and coordination is automated to a personally unacceptable degree doesn't disagree with me.
I think that the manual seriously needs addressing in light of the fact that the My Games listing is fast approaching; something that will bring another influx of players to NS (not to mention UWE). If we want them to stick around, it's better to guide them into competitive play, which we all know is the only surefire way of keeping players playing any one game for a long period of time (say the same long period of time it might take for Source or UWE's first commercial title to be released).
Anyway I'm sure the Devs know exactly what this thread's about. If I sound like a spoilt whining brat, let me tell you I'm not. I know the difficulties involved in making and maintaining a Mod, that's why I think it's important to give back some community-based feedback.
[Edit] NiteOlm !!??
[Edit2] Surely the Manual must have been edited more recently since it has the structure parasite sprite...
So technically a bhop script is a risky business. But still Blink-Swipe scripts don't take up that much time and are still of significant (to me) advantage.
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But that aside this isn't a scripts debate, but more a thread for the arguments for/against officially endorsing the aforementioned game alterations and their ilk.
This should cover it: <a href='http://www.knifegaming.com/media/files/knifegamingnspackv1.zip' target='_blank'>Knife Gaming NS pack</a>
<a href='http://www.knifegaming.com' target='_blank'>http://www.knifegaming.com</a>
[right][snapback]1348460[/snapback][/right]
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People were aware of all the information not available to noobs and put together a zip file with everything you should need. Props to knife as it is their creation.
NS is a very complicated game. Even after you know how to play and are good with all the different classes and skills, there is still an infinite amount to learn about it. I remember how hard bunny hopping was when i was first learning it. The first week I was learning, I had it reversed in my mind and would always start to go backwards. It was pretty hilarious, that i could only bhop backwards. Now i've done it so much that its second nature.
When i recruited vapox from pub servers and he played a couple rounds with us, we told him the reason we kept putting him on hive skulk is because he was the best skulk we had. He really didn't believe us because he couldn't bhop that well. What made him an incredible skulk was that he played with his head and always outsmarted the marine, more than any of us with our leet-sauce scripts.
GG (a new clan) tied us last night because they put a phase gate in vent that the slot1 guys choked on. Our hive skulk died once, then hesitated trying to decide whether or not to drop bio or vent. Add in HBS getting stuck as a fade on the upper level of vent and dying and early HA and its GG.
The hive skulk was vapox. So in one paragraph he's amazing because he's a smart tactical skullk, and in another we have a second hive dropped at 9:00.
Point is, scripts aren't what competitive ns is about, and its damaging to you as a player to say that you aren't good because you don't have scripts. Scripts wouldn't have helped vapox get that hive down, and he doesn't need them to be an amazing skulk. Its a complicated game and it takes time and patience and a team to get good at it. There are people willing to teach you, just scrim a better clan and ask for tips after, they will always help you.
So technically a bhop script is a risky business. But still Blink-Swipe scripts don't take up that much time and are still of significant (to me) advantage.
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But that aside this isn't a scripts debate, but more a thread for the arguments for/against officially endorsing the aforementioned game alterations and their ilk. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
BLINK/SWIPE SCRIPTS ARE A MYTH. NO GOOD FADE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD USES BLINK SWIPE SCRIPTS. IF YOU ARE A FADE AND YOU USE BLINK SWIPE SCRIPTS YOU ARE NOT NEARLY AS GOOD AS YOU THINK.
There is no script that bhops. The bhop script as people call it is only a 3jump script. What it does is sends the jump command three times for each time you press the button. This is so you jump as soon as you hit the ground. You can easily replicate this without a script by binding your mouse wheel in both directions to jump and spamming that as you hit the ground. <b>There is much more to bunnyhopping than this.</b> You still need to be alternating your strafe keys with your left hand and controling your pitch and angle with the mouse. It is a complicated process that requires the use of three patterns.
1: strafing left or right depending on where you are looking.
2: looking left or right depending on where you are strafing.
3: jumping
You don't just hold down a script button to bunny hop. Its a complex skill. It takes HOURS of practice to learn. And in the end. it doesn't really matter that much, because if you bhop across a distance at a marine with good aim you wont make it half way there.
The thing that hurt CAL this season was teams that would form, get scheduled, and then not show up for their first two matches. The 2 new teams that they were scheduled against, would have forfeit wins which really messed up the standings and future schedules.
If you are starting out in comp ns, you will get demolished in every scrim. This is because the teams that scrim, scrim a lot. Thats why they are so good that they demolish you. Look at some of the xfire profiles. For people in mid omega to mid delta range. People in the middle of CAL-NS, some people have 500-1000 hours logged in ns, just on xfire.
thats 10-20 WEEKS playing ns as if it was a full time job 40 hours a week. So unless you've played 8 hours a day for the last 6 months don't expect to be good enough to beat a mid level team.
-rates
-scripts
-hacked models (yes, ive heard this)
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I don’t want to know how many competitive players use modified versions of ns like with black walls, modified sounds, etc regardless if they’re NA or EURO.
Comparing to that possible advantages scripting is a minor issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i bet more people have used full on hacks then have used blackwalls.