<!--QuoteBegin-CMEast+May 29 2005, 10:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMEast @ May 29 2005, 10:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [Edit] Just thought I'd share the horrible image I just had as I pushed post. A Bill Gates excercise video... if I get to have nightmares then so do you.
Maybe chuck in some excercises by Bill Roper or Molyneux as well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/Edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Microsoft already made one. <a href='http://www.ntk.net/ballmer/mirrors.html' target='_blank'>Dance, Monkey Boy</a>. Steve Ballmer is my god.
Ive always wondered if there was any reason given by USA why they had to drop 2 nukes on Japan. Ive heard "the nuke stopped the war" several times before, and every nuke comparison to date is vs the Hiroshima bomb. Nagazaki is hardly ever mentioned, or refered to. Just something i rememberd now as ww2 is part of the topic.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->A Meserschmit was a German fighter plane if I'm not mistaken.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You are. Messerschmitt was a company, making a variety of aircraft including fighters, bombers, transports, and even some rocket propelled stuff; they're better known for fighters, though. It's like referring to a car by its manufacturer, rather than its type.
....
Bugger. So much for sifting through Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War 2, since that Wikipedia article goes and confirms it.
You alwso had a very good fighter called the foockerschmit which was a very good fighter and manovring
But by the end of the war germany did not have the pilots to use these fighter to an effect to save there already doomed battle most resorses were pumping into hitlers fanaticle view of taking over russia which had not ben done (even by napolian) and by the time he turned most of his attention to france it was too late.
But the bf109 was a a better fighter than the hurrican and spitfire but due to lack of experience many were not used to there full capability and in fact the spit fire was not the better air craft the hurricane was
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy' target='_blank'>Little Boy</a> dropped on Hiroshima <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Man' target='_blank'>Fat Man</a> dropped on Nagazaki 3 days later... sounds like it was "for testing", maybe.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sub zer0+May 29 2005, 01:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sub zer0 @ May 29 2005, 01:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yes there was also a v3 weapon which was capabele of hiting new york
Place secret weapons of normandy it was fun it has all the cool german secret planes which i believe were in esistance
and also the 6 engine plane was also made to dropa nuke which the germans where researching but did not succed <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I dunno about the Ju 390 being designed to drop the nuke, as far as I'm aware the Horton Ho 18 was designed for that role but it never made it past the drawing board.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sub zer0+May 29 2005, 03:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sub zer0 @ May 29 2005, 03:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> woo go world war 2
i play ww2 online *cough*
You alwso had a very good fighter called the foockerschmit which was a very good fighter and manovring
But by the end of the war germany did not have the pilots to use these fighter to an effect to save there already doomed battle most resorses were pumping into hitlers fanaticle view of taking over russia which had not ben done (even by napolian) and by the time he turned most of his attention to france it was too late.
But the bf109 was a a better fighter than the hurrican and spitfire but due to lack of experience many were not used to there full capability and in fact the spit fire was not the better air craft the hurricane was <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That really isn't true, by the end of the war the pilots germany did have left were probably the best in the world, unlike the allies the germans were unable to rotate their pilots out of the combat theatres so they could pass on their skills too new recruits in training schools. They needed all their best pilots fighting, this ment that when they were shot down their skills were lost. The ones that remained were mosty aces with insane amounts of kills to their credit and of an unrivaled quality, there just wasn't enough of them to make a difference tho.
As for the BF109 being better than the Spitfire that's wrong as well, they out classed each other in some areas but in general it balanced out for most of the war with the Spitfire having the edge towards the end when they Type IX and type XII (type XII had the Griffon engine).
The nuclear bombs didn't end the war. At least, not according to one historian: <!--QuoteBegin-Edwin Hoyt+ "Japan's War", p420--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edwin Hoyt @ "Japan's War", p420)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Out of the war also came one great myth, perpetuated by well-meaning people throughout the world who fear atomic holocaust. That myth is that the atomic bomb caused the surrender of Japan.
The fact is that as far as the Japanese militarists were concerned, the atomic bomb was just another weapon. The two atomic bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were icing on the cake, and did not do as much damage as the firebombings of Japanese cities. The B-29 firebombing campaign had brought the destruction of 3,100,000 homes, leaving fifteen million people homeless, and killing about a million of them. It was the ruthless firebombing, and Emperor Hirohito's realization that if necessary the Allies <i>would</i> completely destroy Japan and kill every Japanese to achieve "unconditional surrender" that persuaded him to the decision to end the war. The atomic bomb is indeed a fearsome weapon, but it was not the cause of Japan's surrender, even though the myth persists even to this day.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The firebombings he refers to are discussed earlier in the book. This is a very long section to quote, but I feel it really gets the whole point across. <!--QuoteBegin-Edwin Hoyt+ "Japan's War", pp384-387--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edwin Hoyt @ "Japan's War", pp384-387)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[the B-29s] came in low, at 4000 and 5000 feet, scattering their incendiaries throughout the area. The tests in Utah had proved that the type of fire-fighting equipment used by the Japanese could not possibly put out such fires as the ones that were being started that night. But even the Americans had not anticipated what did happen. The fires were caught by the high winds, and the heat made the winds whirl faster until a fire storm was created, swirling winds of flame leaping across streets and open spaces; the flames would leap a whole block and drop down and begin the destruction of that new section. At first many householders tried to get up on their roofs and brush the incendiaries off. Many died that way, burned horribly by the spreading napalm. Others tried to flee, heading for the canals, for the tiny handful of parks and squares and other open spaces, some of them left by previous bombings. But they could hardly move fast enough through the narrow streets. Often the buildings crashed down upon them, or the fire leaped forward and cut them off, to burn in the midst of the blazing wreckage. People in padded kimonos found their clothing on fire. Women running with babies on their backs stopped to discover the babies dead of smoke and flames. Even stronger winds picked up the fires and made glittering whirlwinds of them, the rising hear created vacuums and the air rushed in to carry fire back up, out and away to expand the disaster. Whole blocks arupted and went up all at once and in a few minutes had collapsed into rubble, burying more hundreds of people beneath the ash and trash. Firemen at first rushed to try to put out the individual blazes, but as the fires increased and the heat toppled buildings, their water sources broke down; and they hooked up to a hydrant only to find a trickle of water coming out. There was virtually no fire fighting to be done in the ordinary sense. The firemen rushed here and there, trying to save people from trapped buildings, trying to guide them out of the hell that their city had become.
[...]
The Americans went home pleased. The surprise of the low-level raid and the paucity of Japanese night fighters had worked as General LeMay had predicted. The Americans lost only two aircraft that night.
It was a week before the Americans could get through the smoke and haze above the city to photograph their accomplishment. When they saw what they had done, General LeMay called it a "diller" of a raid. The official U.S. Army Air Forces records showed that 83,000 Japanese civilians had died in the bombing that night. [...] But the facts indicate that 200,000 people died on the night of January 9-10 in General LeMay's pyre, about three times as many as would be killed directly at Hiroshima.
[...]
In the next few weeks, Nagoya was burned out, and then Osaka, and then Kobe, where LeMay was forced to use 500-pound clusters of magnesium thermite bombs because the napalm supply was exhausted. Magnesium thermite will burn through steel. The heat from the Kobe fires was so intense that it very nearly destroyed one of the B-29s flying above a raging thermal fire storm at 4500 feet above sea level.
[...]
...[The emperor] insisted on going out to see the destruction. Imperial Headquarters and the government tried desperately to dissuade him from making this trip, but he insisted. [...] When the emperor returned from this visit of horrors, he was sick and shocked. That is the point at which Emperor Hirohito knew that no matter what his generals and his admirals told him, the war was lost and every effort must be made to bring it to a conclusion as quickly as possible.
The chiefs of the U.S. Army Air Forces were delighted. The firebomb raids had gutted thirty-two square miles of Japanese cities. They must have killed at least half a million civillians and destroyed a million houses. [...] It is a good thing for General LeMay and the others involved that they won the wor, for most certainly they would have been duly tried and executed as wa criminals had they lost it, on the grounds of murder of civillians in acts of terrorism without regard to military objectives. LeMay was very pleased. The strong reaction of shocked dismay that was expressed by Radio Tokyo convinced him that he had accomplished a major feat. He called it "strategic bombing".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-V MAN+May 29 2005, 03:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (V MAN @ May 29 2005, 03:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That really isn't true, by the end of the war the pilots germany did have left were probably the best in the world, unlike the allies the germans were unable to rotate their pilots out of the combat theatres so they could pass on their skills too new recruits in training schools. They needed all their best pilots fighting, this ment that when they were shot down their skills were lost. The ones that remained were mosty aces with insane amounts of kills to their credit and of an unrivaled quality, there just wasn't enough of them to make a difference tho.
As for the BF109 being better than the Spitfire that's wrong as well, they out classed each other in some areas but in general it balanced out for most of the war with the Spitfire having the edge towards the end when they Type IX and type XII (type XII had the Griffon engine). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OOooh the master has spoken ^_^
Comments
Maybe chuck in some excercises by Bill Roper or Molyneux as well <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->[/Edit] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Microsoft already made one. <a href='http://www.ntk.net/ballmer/mirrors.html' target='_blank'>Dance, Monkey Boy</a>. Steve Ballmer is my god.
Place secret weapons of normandy it was fun it has all the cool german secret planes which i believe were in esistance
and also the 6 engine plane was also made to dropa nuke which the germans where researching but did not succed
You are. Messerschmitt was a company, making a variety of aircraft including fighters, bombers, transports, and even some rocket propelled stuff; they're better known for fighters, though. It's like referring to a car by its manufacturer, rather than its type.
....
Bugger. So much for sifting through Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War 2, since that Wikipedia article goes and confirms it.
i play ww2 online *cough*
You alwso had a very good fighter called the foockerschmit which was a very good fighter and manovring
But by the end of the war germany did not have the pilots to use these fighter to an effect to save there already doomed battle most resorses were pumping into hitlers fanaticle view of taking over russia which had not ben done (even by napolian) and by the time he turned most of his attention to france it was too late.
But the bf109 was a a better fighter than the hurrican and spitfire but due to lack of experience many were not used to there full capability and in fact the spit fire was not the better air craft the hurricane was
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Man' target='_blank'>Fat Man</a> dropped on Nagazaki 3 days later... sounds like it was "for testing", maybe.
*sorry for goin off threadtopic with this btw
Place secret weapons of normandy it was fun it has all the cool german secret planes which i believe were in esistance
and also the 6 engine plane was also made to dropa nuke which the germans where researching but did not succed <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno about the Ju 390 being designed to drop the nuke, as far as I'm aware the Horton Ho 18 was designed for that role but it never made it past the drawing board.
i play ww2 online *cough*
You alwso had a very good fighter called the foockerschmit which was a very good fighter and manovring
But by the end of the war germany did not have the pilots to use these fighter to an effect to save there already doomed battle most resorses were pumping into hitlers fanaticle view of taking over russia which had not ben done (even by napolian) and by the time he turned most of his attention to france it was too late.
But the bf109 was a a better fighter than the hurrican and spitfire but due to lack of experience many were not used to there full capability and in fact the spit fire was not the better air craft the hurricane was <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That really isn't true, by the end of the war the pilots germany did have left were probably the best in the world, unlike the allies the germans were unable to rotate their pilots out of the combat theatres so they could pass on their skills too new recruits in training schools. They needed all their best pilots fighting, this ment that when they were shot down their skills were lost. The ones that remained were mosty aces with insane amounts of kills to their credit and of an unrivaled quality, there just wasn't enough of them to make a difference tho.
As for the BF109 being better than the Spitfire that's wrong as well, they out classed each other in some areas but in general it balanced out for most of the war with the Spitfire having the edge towards the end when they Type IX and type XII (type XII had the Griffon engine).
<!--QuoteBegin-Edwin Hoyt+ "Japan's War", p420--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edwin Hoyt @ "Japan's War", p420)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Out of the war also came one great myth, perpetuated by well-meaning people throughout the world who fear atomic holocaust. That myth is that the atomic bomb caused the surrender of Japan.
The fact is that as far as the Japanese militarists were concerned, the atomic bomb was just another weapon. The two atomic bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were icing on the cake, and did not do as much damage as the firebombings of Japanese cities. The B-29 firebombing campaign had brought the destruction of 3,100,000 homes, leaving fifteen million people homeless, and killing about a million of them. It was the ruthless firebombing, and Emperor Hirohito's realization that if necessary the Allies <i>would</i> completely destroy Japan and kill every Japanese to achieve "unconditional surrender" that persuaded him to the decision to end the war. The atomic bomb is indeed a fearsome weapon, but it was not the cause of Japan's surrender, even though the myth persists even to this day.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The firebombings he refers to are discussed earlier in the book. This is a very long section to quote, but I feel it really gets the whole point across.
<!--QuoteBegin-Edwin Hoyt+ "Japan's War", pp384-387--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Edwin Hoyt @ "Japan's War", pp384-387)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->[the B-29s] came in low, at 4000 and 5000 feet, scattering their incendiaries throughout the area. The tests in Utah had proved that the type of fire-fighting equipment used by the Japanese could not possibly put out such fires as the ones that were being started that night. But even the Americans had not anticipated what did happen. The fires were caught by the high winds, and the heat made the winds whirl faster until a fire storm was created, swirling winds of flame leaping across streets and open spaces; the flames would leap a whole block and drop down and begin the destruction of that new section. At first many householders tried to get up on their roofs and brush the incendiaries off. Many died that way, burned horribly by the spreading napalm. Others tried to flee, heading for the canals, for the tiny handful of parks and squares and other open spaces, some of them left by previous bombings. But they could hardly move fast enough through the narrow streets. Often the buildings crashed down upon them, or the fire leaped forward and cut them off, to burn in the midst of the blazing wreckage. People in padded kimonos found their clothing on fire. Women running with babies on their backs stopped to discover the babies dead of smoke and flames. Even stronger winds picked up the fires and made glittering whirlwinds of them, the rising hear created vacuums and the air rushed in to carry fire back up, out and away to expand the disaster. Whole blocks arupted and went up all at once and in a few minutes had collapsed into rubble, burying more hundreds of people beneath the ash and trash. Firemen at first rushed to try to put out the individual blazes, but as the fires increased and the heat toppled buildings, their water sources broke down; and they hooked up to a hydrant only to find a trickle of water coming out. There was virtually no fire fighting to be done in the ordinary sense. The firemen rushed here and there, trying to save people from trapped buildings, trying to guide them out of the hell that their city had become.
[...]
The Americans went home pleased. The surprise of the low-level raid and the paucity of Japanese night fighters had worked as General LeMay had predicted. The Americans lost only two aircraft that night.
It was a week before the Americans could get through the smoke and haze above the city to photograph their accomplishment. When they saw what they had done, General LeMay called it a "diller" of a raid. The official U.S. Army Air Forces records showed that 83,000 Japanese civilians had died in the bombing that night. [...] But the facts indicate that 200,000 people died on the night of January 9-10 in General LeMay's pyre, about three times as many as would be killed directly at Hiroshima.
[...]
In the next few weeks, Nagoya was burned out, and then Osaka, and then Kobe, where LeMay was forced to use 500-pound clusters of magnesium thermite bombs because the napalm supply was exhausted. Magnesium thermite will burn through steel. The heat from the Kobe fires was so intense that it very nearly destroyed one of the B-29s flying above a raging thermal fire storm at 4500 feet above sea level.
[...]
...[The emperor] insisted on going out to see the destruction. Imperial Headquarters and the government tried desperately to dissuade him from making this trip, but he insisted. [...] When the emperor returned from this visit of horrors, he was sick and shocked. That is the point at which Emperor Hirohito knew that no matter what his generals and his admirals told him, the war was lost and every effort must be made to bring it to a conclusion as quickly as possible.
The chiefs of the U.S. Army Air Forces were delighted. The firebomb raids had gutted thirty-two square miles of Japanese cities. They must have killed at least half a million civillians and destroyed a million houses. [...] It is a good thing for General LeMay and the others involved that they won the wor, for most certainly they would have been duly tried and executed as wa criminals had they lost it, on the grounds of murder of civillians in acts of terrorism without regard to military objectives. LeMay was very pleased. The strong reaction of shocked dismay that was expressed by Radio Tokyo convinced him that he had accomplished a major feat. He called it "strategic bombing".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As for the BF109 being better than the Spitfire that's wrong as well, they out classed each other in some areas but in general it balanced out for most of the war with the Spitfire having the edge towards the end when they Type IX and type XII (type XII had the Griffon engine). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OOooh the master has spoken ^_^