What Do You Do When Cc Is Destroyed?
Stan_R
Join Date: 2002-09-13 Member: 1311Members
Join Date: 2002-09-13 Member: 1311Members
<div class="IPBDescription">What's the point? Needs to be addressed</div> Folks,
Yesterday, I joined a server where the following situation occurred -- I don't remember the name of the map, but
it's that fun map where there is a large elevator platform is lowered past some vents to exit the CC room.
We had 6 marines, 4 turrets and factory, an armory. Marines had welders and could fix turrets. One thing we no longer had was the CC module.
The point is, we were able to hold that position indefinitely, just because we could blast anything (including Oni) as aliens were trying to ascend to our height, either via slow elevator platform, or climbing walls/flying. We also had a crazy lot of resource points on account of all the killing.
The only problem is, the game is supremely boring after the CC is gone, you cannot expand or do anything else. What need to be done is marines must have some mechanism of re-creating the CC somehow, given enough team rps. Aliens can re-build a hive after all of them are gone, can't they? Marines must have a way to achieve spectacular comebacks as well.
Stan R.
Yesterday, I joined a server where the following situation occurred -- I don't remember the name of the map, but
it's that fun map where there is a large elevator platform is lowered past some vents to exit the CC room.
We had 6 marines, 4 turrets and factory, an armory. Marines had welders and could fix turrets. One thing we no longer had was the CC module.
The point is, we were able to hold that position indefinitely, just because we could blast anything (including Oni) as aliens were trying to ascend to our height, either via slow elevator platform, or climbing walls/flying. We also had a crazy lot of resource points on account of all the killing.
The only problem is, the game is supremely boring after the CC is gone, you cannot expand or do anything else. What need to be done is marines must have some mechanism of re-creating the CC somehow, given enough team rps. Aliens can re-build a hive after all of them are gone, can't they? Marines must have a way to achieve spectacular comebacks as well.
Stan R.
Comments
This is a reason to buy a second CC.
CC destroyed, tough luck. You can still beat the aliens, but it would be really really hard.
Personally I like it the way it is, if the Marine team can't be bothered to build a backup CC, then so be it.
You say about recreating the CC as the Aliens can rebuild hives, but a hive = Infantry portal, which Marines can rebuild a lot more quickly and easily than Aliens can build hives (So long as they weren't silly enough not to build a backup CC).
Not sure if that's entirely "ethical", but it's dirty and I like it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
You are warned to protect the CC <i>no matter what</i>, so if it's lost then ultimately it's nobody's fault but the marines, and they deserve a boring game. =P
Darc Myst
Capturning a Hive is important but capturing a hive before your own Base is secure is just plain stupid. The most successful start setup I've seen has been half the marines on build, half the marines on guard. It is also a good strategy to have one of the guards to watch outside the base. His gunfire will warn everyone in the Base to prepare for attack.
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So, either declare it an alien victory immediately when the CC is destroyed or allow the CC to re-appear as soon as there is enough RPs or some time has passed.
I mean, we had reached max RPs and seemed to have been able to hold off aliens indefinitely (we did it for 30 minutes
without much sweat).
And no, alien hives are not just respawn points. They heal and allow new abilities, which are exactly the functions of a commander.
Stan R.
But can you do it *after* your CC is gone?
I've long been thinking about adding a count-down timer, after which, a new CC is deployed by the off-site Frontiersmen. It would be pretty dramatic, but I'd prefer to just have the game to a rapid conclusion. I agree that it's not a lot of fun to lose your CC in general.
However, we had 2 hive locations fortified and were attacking the third.
So - once we realized our CC was gone (I went back to make sure our spawn portals were safe) we sent every guy repeatedly at their last hive.
It was a timed fight. Either they'd get back a hive and kick our butts or we'd kill their last hive and have victory.
We woooooon! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Can only be in 3 places
Costs 80 RP (almost 3 times more)
Doesnt allow commander mode
You cant have spare hives in case of emergency
They are alot harder to defend, harder to hide/surround etc
Every hive is crucial, one less for the aliens is a significant blow. One CC down is nothing if you have spares
Can only be made be gorges, gorges being weak and easy to kill normally
CCs:
Small
Cheap
Can be placed almost anywhere
Can be built by anyone (once placed)
Easy to protect (as mentioned earlier, surround in turrets, hide it etc
One CC is the same as another, interchangeable
The fact that you allowed the aliens (maybe allow is the wrong word <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) to destroy the CC is... well pretty foolish. Not sure why the aliens didnt take you out though. You were lucky all you lost was a CC. Besides, as people play the game longer youll soon find that marines learn better tactics, they'll learn to protect their CC's and infantry portals.
like that word....
gonna use it....
Hrm...
Excuse me, but I joined the server past the point in time when CC was destroyed. Most people had HA, HMGs and welders (I picked up a welder and was either fixing turrets or other people's armor, or shooting down the elevator well). I was told that a couple of skulks snuck into the little area where the CC is (out of the line of sight of turrets)
and that commander disconnected just before it happened, while most of the team was away. All marines were in HAs and too far away and too slow to get to the CC room in time to stop its destruction.
N00b-factor did not enter the equation, on neither side. 5 HMG's + 4 turrets + 1 LMG (mine)
raining down lead down the well, plus clever manipulations of the elevator platform = death
to anything below. No joke. A fade would die before it could fire a few acid rockets, and me and others
welded the armor and turrets periodically. My teammates were good, but the "disconnecting commander" screwed the team over.
Stan R.
While the CC is gone, the game is indefinitely boring... but it's noone's fault but the marine's.
As mentioned by CM East, CC has all the advantages over Hive... And another thing is that Hive is huge and hangs in the ceiling, makes an easy target doesn't it?
It costs cheap too only 30 and not 80 where the hive costs.
If I was a commander in Danger I would just spawn some more CC's at some totally secret place and order my troop to build it there.
I've seen it done, and it's either that way or the troops go back to save the CC
or the Commander himself get out of his chair and blast those little **obscenity**.
I've done that. It works if you knwo what you're doing. and it saves the trouble from calling your team to come back.
CC is the marine's life... and if it's gone it's lost.
3rd hive is the Alien's life... and if it's gone it's most likely lost for the alien.
Then why make a CC coming back in time? That's totally in favour for the marine. Hive don't come back on their own, and they costs like 80 frigging resources... and if it's guarded it's even worse.
If Flayra is still convinced that he should do the timer thing... at least use up all the marine resources <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Or you could make a vote for surrender when the CC is gone... that would be cool too <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And I think the CC's cost need to be boosted up a bit. For commanders who know what they're doing, they'll have more tahn 3 extra CC around the place I think. At least that's what I foresee in the future.
I was batting on one the other day... I know he knew i was there.. he kept sending marines up the ele to stop me.... I just slashed them and went back to work.. IN ALL THIS 2-3 mins... he NEVER build another CC....
That is just plain dumb.
I've played as a marine without a CC and we took two hives (although we couldn't leave defenses and they were soon back up.) it's just another valid strategy. If you're a commander and you choose to leave all your eggs in a basket it's your own fault.
As for the "aliens can get their hives back" argument it's not a simple as it seems. This only applies really if the aliens lost all three hives. Saving up the 93 resources (80 for hive and 13 for gorge evolution) while having no hives (therefore no respawns) and no backup (most of your team is dead during the fight to keep the last hive alive.) That means you've either gotta guard all your resource collectors from a force that's already devestated three hives and your team, or have been savy enough to keep that many minerals on you at all times. I've only seen someone pull it off once, the rest of the time the aliens just 'skulk' around the map taking pot shots at random people/structures until the grenade/vent spam begins.
So, no Flayra, please don't let the CC 'respawn'. Aliens don't get the freebie either. Marines shouldn't. Theres no reason for 'we lost the CC'. Just excuses.
...
So, no Flayra, please don't let the CC 'respawn'. Aliens don't get the freebie either. Marines shouldn't. Theres no reason for 'we lost the CC'. Just excuses.
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What if you are not the commander? Whose fault is it?
What if the commander is good, but his connection flakes out?
Who says it has to be a freebie? You need to reach some resource level by killing enough aliens, of course. Just like a resource-less gorge must kill some marines to get enough RPs for that hive.
The point is this:
- Alien near-defeat situations are reversible (it is not easy, but it is possible)
- Marine near-defeat situations are irreversible regardless of your skill or amount/quality of teamwork.
And that, my friends, is wrong and needs to be fixed.
Stan R.
What if you are not the commander? Whose fault is it?
What if the commander is good, but his connection flakes out?
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I do believe they might of included this 'voting option' thing for such reasons of: Commander incompetence. Commander losing connection. Making sure you realize that it's still the troops in charge and not just the commander. It's not 100% his fault if you lose. Pay attention.
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Who says it has to be a freebie?
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Flayra's post sounded like it'd be a freebie.
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You need to reach some resource level by killing enough aliens, of course. Just like a resource-less gorge must kill some marines to get enough RPs for that hive.
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But the hiveless gorge can't respawn like the marines can, insanely more difficult. Also did you read what you just said? A gorge killing enough marines (80 rp points worth) to get a hive? HAHAHAHA! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
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- Alien near-defeat situations are reversible (it is not easy, but it is possible)
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I've only heard of it once. I was in that game.
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- Marine near-defeat situations are irreversible regardless of your skill or amount/quality of teamwork.
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I've only heard of it once and it was earlier in this thread.
So I've just collected stats of marines coming back from near death once and aliens coming back from near death once. Seems balanced to me.
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And that, my friends, is wrong and needs to be fixed.
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No, that is fair, balanced and a result of bad judgement of the commander and lack of actions by the marines [ie: not voting the apparently disconnected/unresponsive/idiot commander out]
EDIT: Jeez, why do I always miss the second page! After reading some more posts, I'd have to say maybe they could get a respawned CC, even though I think its 100% preventable, but they better play damn good to earn it back! Maybe they can earn it back by destroying a hive <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> That way, they don't just sit there and camp for 20 minutes. Or, I like the idea that they have to earn ALOT of resources before they can earn it back.
Oh, and to all those people who like to quit when they think they can't win. That really ruins the game, at least for me anyways. Stick with it and die like a man! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I see way too many people switch sides when the aliens get a third hive or onosos.
<b>NO CC RESPAWN PLEASE</b>
The reason I stated above, if not enough, I will say it again. It is utterly unfair for the Aliens.
If they lose the CC chair, it's their fault. Marines know how to defend and attack stuff. If the CC is underattack, Guard it. Don't move until you have enough defence around your CC
Your CC is your team's heart and core. You don't just let it sit there and die waiting for the next respawned CC.
I will tell you, most Marines hold up pretty well because they have fire power and respawn quicker than Aliens.
Aliens spawn 1 per hive... but marines spawn 1 per spawngate.... and usually they have 2 spawngates, which give them a double rate of respawning at the beginning right?
And Marines can hold their base because they got guns and turrets and stuff. Aliens got only melee mostly, and we all know what happens when aliens go head on with marines.
Marines would be able to hold off their base for about 20 mins after they lose their CC
Aliens would be able to hold off their last hive for about 20 mins after they lose their 2nd hive
So isn't that equal? why not give the aliens another hive too?
I <b>really</b> don't see how it would be fair for the aliens if the CC can be respawned in due time.
I <b>strong disagree</b> on respawning CC.
IF they lose it, it's their fault for not defending it, not the game's problem.
DOn't blame your lack of skill on the game's engine.
- Alien near-defeat situations are reversible (it is not easy, but it is possible)
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I've only heard of it once. I was in that game.
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- Marine near-defeat situations are irreversible regardless of your skill or amount/quality of teamwork.
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I've only heard of it once and it was earlier in this thread.
......
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You need to reach some resource level by killing enough aliens, of course. Just like a resource-less gorge must kill some marines to get enough RPs for that hive.
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But the hiveless gorge can't respawn like the marines can, insanely more difficult. Also did you read what you just said? A gorge killing enough marines (80 rp points worth) to get a hive? HAHAHAHA! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
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Well, on the subject of statistics (i.e. number of games when gorges have rebuilt one of the hives or marines were able to hold off aliens), these situations happen far more frequently than you realize and you should play more NS, and pay attention while you do it.
On the subject of resource gathering for the hive, a gorge alone may not be able to do it, but a gorge and a group of remaining aliens may. In fact, just yesterday I played a game in which a fade distracted two marines away from the hive (they though he was the only one remining), and while they ran after him a gorge re-started the hive. Prior to yesterday, I saw this happen twice. Gorges walking around with >80 RPs is not uncommon at all.
As far as marines go: most midsized rooms with 2 narrow exits, an armory, 3+ good marines in HAs with welders and HMGs -- it is possible to hold out for a pretty long time. If you think otherwise, then you should work on your aim, footwork and welding.
Stan R.