TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
edited April 2005
I am an atheist. I don't quite buy the Big Bang theory, nor anything else I've found thus far. Nor does an omniscient omnipresent being seem likely either. So what I'm left with is being here, yet not knowing the ultimate design of the universe and how humans, speficially myself, fall into it. So what I do is simply try to have the greatest positive impact on the world while enjoying it at the same time. Right now I remove explosives so that others don't find them in the wrong way, this is a great benefit that will probably result in generations of children that otherwise wouldn't be here. I do not believe in anything after death besides slow decomposition, so I have only the past and the now, because the future could be cut short momentarily. What this does is speed up how fast I do certain things in life, so at this point I'm 20 years old, married, have a car payment, am a sergeant in the United States Army, and shortly will have both a baby and a mortgage. I find great enjoyment in this fast paced life, so I do it without regret or wondering if anthing else could be better, because I may or may not have the time to see if anything else is better. Some might call this settling for less, I call it enjoying what I have, and I wouldn't trade it for anything else. The purpose of life is what YOU make the purpose of YOUR life to be, nothing more nothing less. Even most religions state people have free will, therefore you decide what your purpose is.
From the perspective of a human being, the only way to make a life have a point is to have a purpose and to do something you enjoy. But life as a whole there is no point. either way even if you have no point in life you always will have the urge to survive and that is the basic point of life.
I just mentioned the purpose of life, so I should probably go a bit deeper.
What is the purpose of Existence? The purpose of existence is to define the Absolute. (Many of you would call this God)
The Absolute/God is the fundamental existence/being, deeper than all reason, sets of physical laws (Including time and space), deeper than all realities. There is nothing that is God, there is nothing that is not God.
So what happens when this (It cant really be called a thing, since it is deeper than the concept of thing) "God" percieves? There is nothing for it to percieve, except itself, so it must percieve itself. So what happens when "God" percieves itself? Inevitably, you get the question. Basically, "God" ---. "?" (In other words, God asks "What?" and by "What?" I mean something along the lines of "What am I?") Now, "God" being the simultaneous coexistance of 0 and infinity, considers the wholeness of "itself" and by doing so, examines all of "its" infinite components.
So what happens when "God" percieves something? The act of perception is the act of creation, and is yet also akin to "Zooming in" on something, as with a microscope. Now this act of creation is a fascinating thing, for it creates the idea of discontinuity, "When is God not god?" and it is that which allows any kind of concrete thing to come forth. From 0 and Infinity comes the never before seen concept of 1.
So now we have "God" asking the "question," which references the nature of the existence of "God," which leads to the systematic explanation of all that is "God."
This explaination, or "Self Definition" of "God" leads to each and every thing that "composes" "God," in other words, this is where we get the production of "Realities."
Thanks to the concept of "1," each and every reality has its own sets of "rules" to differentiate one segment of existence from another, and collectively define that which spawned them. We have a set of these "rules" as our laws of physics, like space, time, etc. (Its very important to note that these concepts only come into play at this point) and thus we arrive at tangibility. In our reality, this tangibility shows up as Universes, galaxies, stars, planets, broccoli, etc. And somehwere along the lines, "Life" pops in, a "force" if you want to call it that, that dynamically adapts itself to its surrounding existence. Why did life come to exist? Because in an infinitely varied array of realities, with an infinitely varying array of rules, its inevitable.
Through this inevitability, all of everything in all of the ultimate infinity is defined. This is the "ongoing" definition of "God."
With "Life" we get "Individuals," manifestations of the infinite with the peculiar idea of the concept of discontinuity, you have <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> and <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo--> with the absurd idea that they are not, in fact, the same thing. In my mind, the atheist proclaiming "there is no God" and the religious figure proclaiming "God hates homosexuals" are equally ignorant.
Might as well get to the age-old topic of Free Will. Do you buy the car, or do you save your money? Due to the nature of reality(s), you do both, and everthing in between. The only question is which path is this iteration of consciousness on?
Well, thats my take on the nature of God, and the purpose of Existence. Im sure Im forgetting things, important, nature of life things, but hey, Im sure you guys will think of em, lol
<!--QuoteBegin-TheCheeseStandsAlone+May 2 2005, 03:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheCheeseStandsAlone @ May 2 2005, 03:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I want to die but my brain won't let me <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah me too...personaly I blame my heart....can't will the **** to stop. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously, I think the point of life is the people in your life. The effect you have on your friends and family, is all the point I need, the hope that I might have brightened someone else's day once in a while. What else really matters beyond those that you love being happy?
Though I do seriously want to die young....not actively pursueing it at the momment (well not thinking about suicide anymore, i suppose my smoking, excessive drinking, and drug use might be actively pursueing my death) , but not wanting to live until I'm old and rotten. I'd like to experiance my death, fully. Its something that no one can really tell you about, which is exciting to me, even thoguh I don't really belive in an afterlife or such. I would say that the experiance of death ins the point of life, but thats too cliche and more upon close inspection opens a lot of unplesant and rather problematic questions. yeah....
Skipping all posts because my eyes hurt too much to read everything at once. If life is pointless than there would be no reason for it to exist. To the people who do think its pointless than why havent they done themselves in then? Maybe to sit there and ponder whether life really has a point. I think the question just answered itself. We all have our reasons as to why we live.
Life has a point and its point is to keep existing.
Uh...life is what you make of it. If you think it's worthless, no one can tell you otherwise. However, if you think there's meaning in life, no matter where that meaning comes from, then you are also correct, and no one can tell you otherwise. The purpose comes from knowing there is a purpose. Everything else is just speculation that comes after that.
1) Fulfil the purpose of existence itself 2) Fulfill our biological imperatives
The first I already outlined in my previous post, (although a lot of my terminology may have been a bit wierd, its hard trying to put words to concepts deeper than most speech allows)
Then theres the biological imperatives. These we put together based upon our realities set of physics, and the nature of life to dynamically adapt to its environment. In adapting to the environment, we encounter new forms of environment, and change what we have already encountered, promoting further adaptations, and so on, and then with multiple lifeforms, and multiple types of lifeforms, there is more and more to adapt to, creating a self-diversifying, system. From the beginning we have had the drive to adapt, and thus expand, and with it, the desire for self preservation, leading to behavioral patterns, all the way up to advanced behavioral codes, even to the point of religious and governments created to guide the ever expanding human organism from dying out.
The neat thing is, If we focus on fulfilling our biological imperatives, we have a longer opportunity to pursue the purpose of existence! So the whole suicide thing is a bit counterproductive.
/*EDIT* Has anyone actually red my big scary post of thingdom?
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 30 2005, 11:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 30 2005, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like I said, existentialism. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Holy crap, we learned about this in English class and it changed my life a lot. Life really is pointless as all actions are futile. You work today; you still have to work tommorow. It's been shown in Syssyphus and maybe if you read The Stranger. The only reason to do things is because you are able and that's what sets you free. In addition, you ultimately decide what emotion you feel in a situation, no matter what it is. So in conclusion, life itself is pointless, since whatever work we do is never permanent. The only reason there is meaning, is because that is what people put into it. It sounds confusing, but it's simple at the same time. Existentialism is liberating.
Nothing is ever permanent. By that reasoning, the entire universe is pointless, since it too is not going to last.
But predicting the future is a rather fickle business. Gaudeamus igitur, I say (yes, I can quote latin.). Do what you can today, knowing that it may all be a waste - and that yet it might not be. Plan for tomorrow, build for the ages?
duo... think about what you're saying instead of just spewing out cliched lines. Seriously.
Why do you need a point to keep living? More to a point you might understand, why kill yourself if your life has no point? Is your life defined by having a point?
The arguement that people who don't believe in a point to life should just go kill themselves is so fundamentally flawed on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. The human obsession with everything having a reason, purpose or point irks me to my core... why the heck does everything have to have a point, even if it's only one we project onto it in our desperate bid to make sure everything is a cog in the machine that we understand?
Why do people immediately and I might I highlight <b>passionately</b> (I might even say viciously) attack the belief of a pointless life with such angry cries such as "OMG WHY DON'T YOU JUST KILL YOURSELF". Look, I don't believe life has an actual point. We can give it points but at it's base level life is pointless. I'm not 'emo'. I'm not depressed. In fact I'm actually quite a happy lil soul. Does this boggle your mind? I'm someone who enjoys life and is quite happy to live it yet I believe there is no underlying point to it.
I think in some ways the problem is that the 'anti-pointless' have stereotypical and very silly images that people who don't believe in a point, or deity or whatever as a bunch of down, depressed and/or whiney no-lifers. Sorry to break the narrow-definitions here but they're not.
You <b>are</b> allowed to enjoy things whether they have a point or not, if it really bursts your bubbles then feel free to assign a point of your own to it, but it doesn't need some greater cosmic or epic point to begin with. In some ways things with no point have all the more charm for being so much more down to earth in my view :p
<b>edit:</b> come to think of it, smood's explanation of existentialism puts it more beautifully than I managed to :3
<!--QuoteBegin-"SmoodCroozn"+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ("SmoodCroozn")</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 30 2005, 11:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 30 2005, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like I said, existentialism. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Holy crap, we learned about this in English class and it changed my life a lot. Life really is pointless as all actions are futile. You work today; you still have to work tommorow. It's been shown in Syssyphus and maybe if you read The Stranger. The only reason to do things is because you are able and that's what sets you free. In addition, you ultimately decide what emotion you feel in a situation, no matter what it is. So in conclusion, life itself is pointless, since whatever work we do is never permanent. The only reason there is meaning, is because that is what people put into it. It sounds confusing, but it's simple at the same time. Existentialism is liberating.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, seems its time for my argument against existentialism.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Life really is pointless as all actions are futile. You work today; you still have to work tommorow. It's been shown in Syssyphus and maybe if you read The Stranger. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First up, we have the idea that all action is pointless, because all actions are futile. I must argue, that due to the basic law of Cause and Effect, action cannot be futile. Also, life is an absurdly dynamic thing, so even though you may work today, and work tomorrow, its not the same work, and you aren't the same person, and the world isnt the same place.
The purpose of life is so simple, its easy to overlook it, in favor or looking for some "greater" (more complex) objective, like emotional gratification, and if no "greater" purpose is found, and the simple purpose has been ignored, then one must come to to either of 2 conclusions: "There is a purpose and I just dont know what it is" or "There is no purpose, so I can do what I want" It may seem, that since I argue against existentialism, I argue against "so I can do what I want." In actuality, my argument is that the purpose of life is so simple, we can go ahead and do what we want, without needing to worry about whether or not that action will oppose the very point of our existence.
/EDIT You might want to note this point, Rapier7... If something is posssible, it is inevitable. We are here, we are alive, so we might as well see what this existence has to offer.
Wait a minute, are you trying to define the purpose of life and existance for each and every living thing? You can't even do that with humans because of that little thing called individuality. There are bound to be the majority who don't care and/or disagree with you. I fall into the latter category. The purpose of existance is what you make it and you have no obligations to anyone or anything. Selfish, but it helps now rather than in a vague, philosophical manner.
<!--QuoteBegin-TommyVercetti+May 4 2005, 02:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TommyVercetti @ May 4 2005, 02:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wait a minute, are you trying to define the purpose of life and existance for each and every living thing? You can't even do that with humans because of that little thing called individuality. There are bound to be the majority who don't care and/or disagree with you. I fall into the latter category. The purpose of existance is what you make it and you have no obligations to anyone or anything. Selfish, but it helps now rather than in a vague, philosophical manner. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Am I trying to define the purpose of life and existance for each and every living thing? Not quite, I defined the invariant purpose of existence for all things, living and non-living. I cant define purpose of life/existence for humans, you say, due to individuality? Are we really so special? As all things are, at their core, the same fundamental being, I would hold that the purpose of existence is invariant, for all manifestation. I understand that there will be a vast amount of people that disagree with me, and also that the majority of people will not understand my arguments, and the basis for my arguments. My current objective, is to clarify my views, and their basis, so that they can be understood, and then judged, rather than merely dismissed out of hand because of misunderstanding.
<!--QuoteBegin-pieceofsoap+May 5 2005, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pieceofsoap @ May 5 2005, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No less than yours. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> we'll pin a rose on your nose
<!--QuoteBegin-pieceofsoap+May 5 2005, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pieceofsoap @ May 5 2005, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No less than yours. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Comrade Skulk's point is to keep the moderators busy clearing up his mess.
<!--QuoteBegin-SmoodCroozn+May 4 2005, 02:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmoodCroozn @ May 4 2005, 02:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 30 2005, 11:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 30 2005, 11:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Like I said, existentialism. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Holy crap, we learned about this in English class and it changed my life a lot. Life really is pointless as all actions are futile. You work today; you still have to work tommorow. It's been shown in Syssyphus and maybe if you read The Stranger. The only reason to do things is because you are able and that's what sets you free. In addition, you ultimately decide what emotion you feel in a situation, no matter what it is. So in conclusion, life itself is pointless, since whatever work we do is never permanent. The only reason there is meaning, is because that is what people put into it. It sounds confusing, but it's simple at the same time. Existentialism is liberating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Where do you go to school, because we seriously just read those two pieces by Camus just a few weeks ago.
<!--QuoteBegin-Comrad Skulk+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Comrad Skulk)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->yes your existence is pointless<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Psst, if you were a truely devout Christian, you'd say that you exist to get to Heaven. Just clueing you into your own position.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+May 5 2005, 06:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ May 5 2005, 06:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-pieceofsoap+May 5 2005, 06:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pieceofsoap @ May 5 2005, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No less than yours. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Comrade Skulk's point is to keep the moderators busy clearing up his mess. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And yet Im serious, his life has no more, and no less of a point than my own.
[Quote=Geminosity] Insert everything Gem and snood has ever written on existence and it's meaning[/Quote]
<b>QFT</b>
Pieceofsoap: Before you jump on your box might I suggest you clarify what you mean by 'pointless'? Only I think our definitions vary from yours. For instance:
[Qupte]First up, we have the idea that all action is pointless, because all actions are futile. I must argue, that due to the basic law of Cause and Effect, action cannot be futile.[/Quote]
We know about cause and effect, we know that if we take actions that things will happen, since when does that affect whether those actions matter or not?
I'm quite accepting of the fact that my existence has no meaning whatsoever except that which I myself ascribe to it.
<!--QuoteBegin-pieceofsoap+May 4 2005, 09:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (pieceofsoap @ May 4 2005, 09:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SmoodCroozn+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmoodCroozn)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Life really is pointless as all actions are futile. You work today; you still have to work tommorow.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First up, we have the idea that all action is pointless, because all actions are futile. I must argue, that due to the basic law of Cause and Effect, action cannot be futile. Also, life is an absurdly dynamic thing, so even though you may work today, and work tomorrow, its not the same work, and you aren't the same person, and the world isnt the same place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You asked as to my definition of pointless? Well, I would define pointless as having no objective or goal.
As to <!--QuoteBegin-CMEast+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMEast)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We know about cause and effect, we know that if we take actions that things will happen, since when does that affect whether those actions matter or not?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Since when did it matter "whether those actions matter or not?" I would say it is impossible, in the grand scheme, for an action not to matter. Meaning, I dont value the personal aspects of that action, like the actor's desire for a certain outcome, and/or the actor's degree of success in the action.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm quite accepting of the fact that my existence has no meaning whatsoever except that which I myself ascribe to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Here is a clear difference in topics, the Meaning of Life versus the Point of Life. I would argue that "meaning" cannot be applied to life, due to the fact that the concept of "meaning" having no applicablility to things outside the area of Language.
As to a goal or objective to life, I believe it is to amass data of the experience of existence. No more, no less.
Comments
Nothing happens after you die, no horror/good awaits you.
All IMHO.
The purpose of Life is to experience.
The biological imperatives that drive what experiences we pursue can get a bit confusing, but ultimately, life exists to experience.
I just mentioned the purpose of life, so I should probably go a bit deeper.
What is the purpose of Existence?
The purpose of existence is to define the Absolute. (Many of you would call this God)
The Absolute/God is the fundamental existence/being, deeper than all reason, sets of physical laws (Including time and space), deeper than all realities. There is nothing that is God, there is nothing that is not God.
So what happens when this (It cant really be called a thing, since it is deeper than the concept of thing) "God" percieves? There is nothing for it to percieve, except itself, so it must percieve itself. So what happens when "God" percieves itself? Inevitably, you get the question. Basically, "God" ---. "?" (In other words, God asks "What?" and by "What?" I mean something along the lines of "What am I?") Now, "God" being the simultaneous coexistance of 0 and infinity, considers the wholeness of "itself" and by doing so, examines all of "its" infinite components.
So what happens when "God" percieves something? The act of perception is the act of creation, and is yet also akin to "Zooming in" on something, as with a microscope. Now this act of creation is a fascinating thing, for it creates the idea of discontinuity, "When is God not god?" and it is that which allows any kind of concrete thing to come forth. From 0 and Infinity comes the never before seen concept of 1.
So now we have "God" asking the "question," which references the nature of the existence of "God," which leads to the systematic explanation of all that is "God."
This explaination, or "Self Definition" of "God" leads to each and every thing that "composes" "God," in other words, this is where we get the production of "Realities."
Thanks to the concept of "1," each and every reality has its own sets of "rules" to differentiate one segment of existence from another, and collectively define that which spawned them. We have a set of these "rules" as our laws of physics, like space, time, etc. (Its very important to note that these concepts only come into play at this point) and thus we arrive at tangibility. In our reality, this tangibility shows up as Universes, galaxies, stars, planets, broccoli, etc. And somehwere along the lines, "Life" pops in, a "force" if you want to call it that, that dynamically adapts itself to its surrounding existence. Why did life come to exist? Because in an infinitely varied array of realities, with an infinitely varying array of rules, its inevitable.
Through this inevitability, all of everything in all of the ultimate infinity is defined. This is the "ongoing" definition of "God."
With "Life" we get "Individuals," manifestations of the infinite with the peculiar idea of the concept of discontinuity, you have <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> and <!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif' /><!--endemo--> with the absurd idea that they are not, in fact, the same thing. In my mind, the atheist proclaiming "there is no God" and the religious figure proclaiming "God hates homosexuals" are equally ignorant.
Might as well get to the age-old topic of Free Will. Do you buy the car, or do you save your money? Due to the nature of reality(s), you do both, and everthing in between. The only question is which path is this iteration of consciousness on?
Well, thats my take on the nature of God, and the purpose of Existence.
Im sure Im forgetting things, important, nature of life things, but hey, Im sure you guys will think of em, lol
Yeah me too...personaly I blame my heart....can't will the **** to stop. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Seriously, I think the point of life is the people in your life. The effect you have on your friends and family, is all the point I need, the hope that I might have brightened someone else's day once in a while. What else really matters beyond those that you love being happy?
Though I do seriously want to die young....not actively pursueing it at the momment (well not thinking about suicide anymore, i suppose my smoking, excessive drinking, and drug use might be actively pursueing my death) , but not wanting to live until I'm old and rotten. I'd like to experiance my death, fully. Its something that no one can really tell you about, which is exciting to me, even thoguh I don't really belive in an afterlife or such. I would say that the experiance of death ins the point of life, but thats too cliche and more upon close inspection opens a lot of unplesant and rather problematic questions. yeah....
Life has a point and its point is to keep existing.
Oh, right, discussion forum, seriousness, got it.
Uh...life is what you make of it. If you think it's worthless, no one can tell you otherwise. However, if you think there's meaning in life, no matter where that meaning comes from, then you are also correct, and no one can tell you otherwise. The purpose comes from knowing there is a purpose. Everything else is just speculation that comes after that.
1) Fulfil the purpose of existence itself
2) Fulfill our biological imperatives
The first I already outlined in my previous post, (although a lot of my terminology may have been a bit wierd, its hard trying to put words to concepts deeper than most speech allows)
Then theres the biological imperatives. These we put together based upon our realities set of physics, and the nature of life to dynamically adapt to its environment. In adapting to the environment, we encounter new forms of environment, and change what we have already encountered, promoting further adaptations, and so on, and then with multiple lifeforms, and multiple types of lifeforms, there is more and more to adapt to, creating a self-diversifying, system. From the beginning we have had the drive to adapt, and thus expand, and with it, the desire for self preservation, leading to behavioral patterns, all the way up to advanced behavioral codes, even to the point of religious and governments created to guide the ever expanding human organism from dying out.
The neat thing is, If we focus on fulfilling our biological imperatives, we have a longer opportunity to pursue the purpose of existence! So the whole suicide thing is a bit counterproductive.
/*EDIT* Has anyone actually red my big scary post of thingdom?
Holy crap, we learned about this in English class and it changed my life a lot. Life really is pointless as all actions are futile. You work today; you still have to work tommorow. It's been shown in Syssyphus and maybe if you read The Stranger. The only reason to do things is because you are able and that's what sets you free. In addition, you ultimately decide what emotion you feel in a situation, no matter what it is. So in conclusion, life itself is pointless, since whatever work we do is never permanent. The only reason there is meaning, is because that is what people put into it. It sounds confusing, but it's simple at the same time. Existentialism is liberating.
But predicting the future is a rather fickle business. Gaudeamus igitur, I say (yes, I can quote latin.). Do what you can today, knowing that it may all be a waste - and that yet it might not be. Plan for tomorrow, build for the ages?
Seriously.
Why do you need a point to keep living? More to a point you might understand, why kill yourself if your life has no point? Is your life defined by having a point?
The arguement that people who don't believe in a point to life should just go kill themselves is so fundamentally flawed on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.
The human obsession with everything having a reason, purpose or point irks me to my core... why the heck does everything have to have a point, even if it's only one we project onto it in our desperate bid to make sure everything is a cog in the machine that we understand?
Why do people immediately and I might I highlight <b>passionately</b> (I might even say viciously) attack the belief of a pointless life with such angry cries such as "OMG WHY DON'T YOU JUST KILL YOURSELF".
Look, I don't believe life has an actual point. We can give it points but at it's base level life is pointless. I'm not 'emo'. I'm not depressed. In fact I'm actually quite a happy lil soul.
Does this boggle your mind? I'm someone who enjoys life and is quite happy to live it yet I believe there is no underlying point to it.
I think in some ways the problem is that the 'anti-pointless' have stereotypical and very silly images that people who don't believe in a point, or deity or whatever as a bunch of down, depressed and/or whiney no-lifers.
Sorry to break the narrow-definitions here but they're not.
You <b>are</b> allowed to enjoy things whether they have a point or not, if it really bursts your bubbles then feel free to assign a point of your own to it, but it doesn't need some greater cosmic or epic point to begin with. In some ways things with no point have all the more charm for being so much more down to earth in my view :p
<b>edit:</b> come to think of it, smood's explanation of existentialism puts it more beautifully than I managed to :3
Holy crap, we learned about this in English class and it changed my life a lot. Life really is pointless as all actions are futile. You work today; you still have to work tommorow. It's been shown in Syssyphus and maybe if you read The Stranger. The only reason to do things is because you are able and that's what sets you free. In addition, you ultimately decide what emotion you feel in a situation, no matter what it is. So in conclusion, life itself is pointless, since whatever work we do is never permanent. The only reason there is meaning, is because that is what people put into it. It sounds confusing, but it's simple at the same time. Existentialism is liberating.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, seems its time for my argument against existentialism.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Life really is pointless as all actions are futile. You work today; you still have to work tommorow. It's been shown in Syssyphus and maybe if you read The Stranger. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First up, we have the idea that all action is pointless, because all actions are futile. I must argue, that due to the basic law of Cause and Effect, action cannot be futile. Also, life is an absurdly dynamic thing, so even though you may work today, and work tomorrow, its not the same work, and you aren't the same person, and the world isnt the same place.
The purpose of life is so simple, its easy to overlook it, in favor or looking for some "greater" (more complex) objective, like emotional gratification, and if no "greater" purpose is found, and the simple purpose has been ignored, then one must come to to either of 2 conclusions: "There is a purpose and I just dont know what it is" or "There is no purpose, so I can do what I want" It may seem, that since I argue against existentialism, I argue against "so I can do what I want." In actuality, my argument is that the purpose of life is so simple, we can go ahead and do what we want, without needing to worry about whether or not that action will oppose the very point of our existence.
/EDIT You might want to note this point, Rapier7...
If something is posssible, it is inevitable. We are here, we are alive, so we might as well see what this existence has to offer.
Am I trying to define the purpose of life and existance for each and every living thing? Not quite, I defined the invariant purpose of existence for all things, living and non-living. I cant define purpose of life/existence for humans, you say, due to individuality? Are we really so special? As all things are, at their core, the same fundamental being, I would hold that the purpose of existence is invariant, for all manifestation. I understand that there will be a vast amount of people that disagree with me, and also that the majority of people will not understand my arguments, and the basis for my arguments. My current objective, is to clarify my views, and their basis, so that they can be understood, and then judged, rather than merely dismissed out of hand because of misunderstanding.
/Edit for grammar and clarity
yes your existence is pointless
we'll pin a rose on your nose
Comrade Skulk's point is to keep the moderators busy clearing up his mess.
Not that i know or really care what it is, but im confident my life has a point.
Its not like you can accuse me for beleiving all the positiveness and crap that makes you feel worthwhile, i made this one up on my own.
My life has a point, just I have no idea what it is.
Holy crap, we learned about this in English class and it changed my life a lot. Life really is pointless as all actions are futile. You work today; you still have to work tommorow. It's been shown in Syssyphus and maybe if you read The Stranger. The only reason to do things is because you are able and that's what sets you free. In addition, you ultimately decide what emotion you feel in a situation, no matter what it is. So in conclusion, life itself is pointless, since whatever work we do is never permanent. The only reason there is meaning, is because that is what people put into it. It sounds confusing, but it's simple at the same time. Existentialism is liberating. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where do you go to school, because we seriously just read those two pieces by Camus just a few weeks ago.
<!--QuoteBegin-Comrad Skulk+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Comrad Skulk)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->yes your existence is pointless<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Psst, if you were a truely devout Christian, you'd say that you exist to get to Heaven. Just clueing you into your own position.
Comrade Skulk's point is to keep the moderators busy clearing up his mess. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet Im serious, his life has no more, and no less of a point than my own.
<b>QFT</b>
Pieceofsoap: Before you jump on your box might I suggest you clarify what you mean by 'pointless'? Only I think our definitions vary from yours. For instance:
[Qupte]First up, we have the idea that all action is pointless, because all actions are futile. I must argue, that due to the basic law of Cause and Effect, action cannot be futile.[/Quote]
We know about cause and effect, we know that if we take actions that things will happen, since when does that affect whether those actions matter or not?
I'm quite accepting of the fact that my existence has no meaning whatsoever except that which I myself ascribe to it.
First up, we have the idea that all action is pointless, because all actions are futile. I must argue, that due to the basic law of Cause and Effect, action cannot be futile. Also, life is an absurdly dynamic thing, so even though you may work today, and work tomorrow, its not the same work, and you aren't the same person, and the world isnt the same place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You asked as to my definition of pointless? Well, I would define pointless as having no objective or goal.
As to <!--QuoteBegin-CMEast+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMEast)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->We know about cause and effect, we know that if we take actions that things will happen, since when does that affect whether those actions matter or not?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since when did it matter "whether those actions matter or not?" I would say it is impossible, in the grand scheme, for an action not to matter. Meaning, I dont value the personal aspects of that action, like the actor's desire for a certain outcome, and/or the actor's degree of success in the action.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I'm quite accepting of the fact that my existence has no meaning whatsoever except that which I myself ascribe to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here is a clear difference in topics, the Meaning of Life versus the Point of Life. I would argue that "meaning" cannot be applied to life, due to the fact that the concept of "meaning" having no applicablility to things outside the area of Language.
As to a goal or objective to life, I believe it is to amass data of the experience of existence. No more, no less.