On The Topic Of Programming...

CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
edited April 2005 in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Visual Basic</div> [EDIT:] <b>I made my first program! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Scroll down for the download.</b>

Hey guys, I've just decided that I want to learn Visual Basic, mainly so that I can write silly little applications that have seemingly no use to other people but are very useful for me. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I have a few questions, though.

Is there a <b>LEGAL</b> way to obtain a program for writing VB and compiling? A learning edition of Visual Studio, or some other free edition? I can't afford to buy anything right now. :/

Also, do you have any tutorials to recommend? Something that will teach me all of the VB functions and then how to use them? I'd like some beginner tutorials, but things like "Hello World" don't really interest me... (I've already got a grasp of how programming languages work, what I'm looking for is something that explains syntax and then teaches me how to use various functions.)
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Comments

  • CabooseCaboose title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation
    <a href='http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/vbasic/default.aspx' target='_blank'>http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/vbasic/default.aspx</a>
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  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Apr 21 2005, 04:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Apr 21 2005, 04:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/vbasic/default.aspx' target='_blank'>http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/express/vbasic/default.aspx</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Perfect! Thanks!
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  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    I know you don't have a lot of money, but I highly suggest picking up a visual basic book. Most internet tutorials are either bad or just plain wrong. Unless you have dual monitors, its just much easier to not have to alt+tab out of the IDE. And for me, there's something about reading code out of a book that just makes it a lot clearer when learning new things. VB is such a common language that you'll have a variety of low-cost books to choose from.
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  • DY357LXDY357LX Playing since day 1. Still can&#39;t Comm. England Join Date: 2002-10-27 Member: 1651Members, Constellation
    Some useful reference sites:

    <a href='http://www.ilook.fsnet.co.uk/index/vb_idx.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.ilook.fsnet.co.uk/index/vb_idx.htm</a>

    <a href='http://www.visualbasicforum.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.visualbasicforum.com/</a>
    (Great forum, friendly users and some great "STICKIED" topics)


    But like Doomy said, learning from a book will be easier on both your eyes
    and your brain. I purchased "VISUAL BASIC in easy steps" about 2 years
    ago and still go back to it now and then for reference. Highly recommended book.
    It cost me £9.99 GBP which is about $18 USD.


    Good luck.
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  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    Oh cmon....anything you can do with visual basic, you can do with c++ or java. Don't spend your time learning a near useless language when you could learn one of those two. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    edited April 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Apr 21 2005, 07:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Apr 21 2005, 07:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I know you don't have a lot of money, but I highly suggest picking up a visual basic book. Most internet tutorials are either bad or just plain wrong. Unless you have dual monitors, its just much easier to not have to alt+tab out of the IDE. And for me, there's something about reading code out of a book that just makes it a lot clearer when learning new things. VB is such a common language that you'll have a variety of low-cost books to choose from. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks, I'll take a look next time I'm in a bookstore. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Thanks a lot, Necroscope! Those links should help a lot. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh cmon....anything you can do with visual basic, you can do with c++ or java. Don't spend your time learning a near useless language when you could learn one of those two.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Eh, I like the whole part where you design the interface FIRST and THEN make it work.
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  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-CForrester+Apr 21 2005, 07:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CForrester @ Apr 21 2005, 07:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Oh cmon....anything you can do with visual basic, you can do with c++ or java. Don't spend your time learning a near useless language when you could learn one of those two.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Eh, I like the whole part where you design the interface FIRST and THEN make it work. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Undoubtedly, it's a lot easier to make simple "plug in x value, do through operation y, spit out value z" programs with visual <i>basic</i>, however I just don't think it's worth your time. You can do so much more, so much more easily, with c++. If you're going to learn a language, imo learn one that lets you do more.

    Then again, if you're never going to program anything more complicated than a few plug-and-chug applications, then go for the visual basic.
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  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 21 2005, 07:41 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 21 2005, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Then again, if you're never going to program anything more complicated than a few plug-and-chug applications, then go for the visual basic. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's what I'm planning. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • GwahirGwahir Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Members, Constellation
    I'll agree with the idea that if you aren't going for anything complex go for VB.


    From my perspective howerver... I HATE VB!
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  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    edited April 2005
    Actually, if you want to learn how to code simple applications, I'd recommend Flash. It can do pretty much everything that VB can do, it's easy to use, it's easy to create UI elements with, and it's much better at making anything that doesn't have static graphics.

    Plus, it uses the exact same syntax as C++, so you'll actually learn how to code for real and you can switch to a more powerful language with little fuss. There's also a huge library of free tutorials out there.

    The only downside is that it's probably a little bit slower than VB if you're doing very intensive math.
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  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 22 2005, 08:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 22 2005, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh cmon....anything you can do with visual basic, you can do with c++ or java. Don't spend your time learning a near useless language when you could learn one of those two. <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's neither accurate nor helpful advice. VB excels at GUIs, and the fact is sometimes it's the best tool for the job when you need a quick and dirty GUI based program. C++ doesn't provide any facilities for GUIs <i>at all</i> without having to use third party libraries (don't get me wrong - I love C++. But it's not my first choice of language if I had to write a throwaway GUI app).

    But that's neither here nor there. Much more important is that it's bloody stupid to think you can learn and use only one language, or that learning any language is a waste of time. Also, VB is a good choice of language for beginners. Java teaches better habits but is harsher, and C++ is absolutely not newbie friendly (mostly because it's nearly always taught poorly). There is nothing to be lost by learning one language and then moving on to another.
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  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    edited April 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Apr 21 2005, 06:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Apr 21 2005, 06:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Oh cmon....anything you can do with visual basic, you can do with c++ or java. Don't spend your time learning a near useless language when you could learn one of those two.  ::nerdy:: <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, because its a much better use of your time to spend a week on something simple rather than doing it quickly in a few hours for no reason other than junior grade elitism...

    [edit]
    Blast, SoulSkorpion beat me and made his post more informative. Double blast!
    [/edit]

    [edit2]
    I shall add something helpful of my own then:

    When you are a programmer, think of yourself as a carpenter. Your programming languages are the tools in your toolbox. And like the tools in a toolbox, each programming language has its purpose and has pros and cons in different situations. And while yes, it is possible to use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail, it is much better to use a hammer. This is how you should look at your programming languages. The right tool for the right job.
    [/edit2]
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  • CabooseCaboose title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation
    You could always learn Ruby + Gtk
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    edited April 2005
    Doomeh, along that analogy, having VB in your toolbox is like having a two-week-old haddock in there.

    But then, I really don't consider VB, or any non-compiled language (perl) an actual programming language. It's scripting, not programming. Much akin to people who 'program' HTML.


    Take into consideration that I learned C and then C++, then ASM 80x86 to tighten away the cruft in critical functions that was left behind by the compiler, and you may understand why I want to shred every copy of visual basic in the world. :b
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  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Apr 21 2005, 10:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Apr 21 2005, 10:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, if you want to learn how to code simple applications, I'd recommend Flash. It can do pretty much everything that VB can do, it's easy to use, it's easy to create UI elements with, and it's much better at making anything that doesn't have static graphics.

    Plus, it uses the exact same syntax as C++, so you'll actually learn how to code for real and you can switch to a more powerful language with little fuss. There's also a huge library of free tutorials out there.

    The only downside is that it's probably a little bit slower than VB if you're doing very intensive math. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    And it's a bloody resource hog. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Guys, I'm not out to be the next John Carmack. I'm just looking for an easy-to-learn programming language that can do what I want it to do with little fuss, and I don't want to spend an hour to create a program that can add two numbers together with a GUI when I can do it in five minutes.

    With that in mind, please don't discuss any other programming language. I'll move up to those when I'm ready and if I'm interested. For now, I'm learning VB. Thank you.
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  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Apr 22 2005, 12:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Apr 22 2005, 12:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But then, I really don't consider VB, or any non-compiled language (perl) an actual programming language. It's scripting, not programming. Much akin to people who 'program' HTML. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So it's ok if the Perl interpreter precompiles the code? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Apr 21 2005, 10:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Apr 21 2005, 10:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But then, I really don't consider VB, or any non-compiled language (perl) an actual programming language. It's scripting, not programming. Much akin to people who 'program' HTML. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    VB comiples to a form of byte code similar to Java.
    But so what if they aren't compiled down to machine code? That doesn't mean it isn't a programming language. PHP is not a programming language but I can do almost anything in PHP that I can do in C++ (sometimes faster, sometimes slower), including GUI stuff via PHPGTK...

    I really just find it disturbing how much like console fanboys programmers can be when it comes to their programming languages. Mostly its an attempt to prove their worthiness based on the complexity of the language, and therefore they will use that one language as their sole language.

    "Delphi? Pfft, that's just Pascal for windows! C++ is way harder, and therefore I am a better programmer! If you use anything besides C++ then you're cheating and/or are stupid!"

    "C++? PFft. Easy. Try coding in ADA!"

    etc.
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
    edited April 2005
    Incorrect. Both Perl and VB are interpreted. VB is simply 'bundled' with the interpreter when you ask it to spit out a .exe... the difference between VB and Java is that Java is actually compiled for an architecture, and everyone (not using a Java computer) simply emulates that processor.

    Markedly different.


    And as soon as Perl can spit out a mode 333 program, without Perl installed on the machine, or wrapping the Perl interpreter into the EXE, I'll be quiet. Until then, it stays in the interpreted ghetto along with VB and MPI.
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  • GwahirGwahir Join Date: 2002-04-24 Member: 513Members, Constellation
    if I was making a throwaway app for a windows box I would probably use C#...
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  • SoulSkorpionSoulSkorpion Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 423Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Talesin+Apr 22 2005, 03:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Apr 22 2005, 03:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Incorrect. Both Perl and VB are interpreted. VB is simply 'bundled' with the interpreter when you ask it to spit out a .exe... the difference between VB and Java is that Java is actually compiled for an architecture, and everyone (not using a Java computer) simply emulates that processor.

    Markedly different.


    And as soon as Perl can spit out a mode 333 program, without Perl installed on the machine, or wrapping the Perl interpreter into the EXE, I'll be quiet. Until then, it stays in the interpreted ghetto along with VB and MPI. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What the computer does to the code to get it to run is no indication of the complexity of the code, how powerful or expressive the language is, or how long it took to write the code.
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  • CForresterCForrester P0rk(h0p Join Date: 2002-10-05 Member: 1439Members, Constellation
    Just thought I would bump this, because I wrote my first program in VB. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I'll attach it here for you guys to see.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Readme.txt+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Readme.txt)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS PROGRAM REQUIRES THE MICROSOFT .NET FRAMEWORK VERSION 2.0 OR GREATER TO RUN.
    You can download the version 2.0 Beta 2 (the latest version at the time of this writing) here:
    <a href='http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=7ABD8C8F-287E-4C7E-9A4A-A4ECFF40FC8E&displaylang=en' target='_blank'>http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...&displaylang=en</a>

    Dice Roller is a simple program that allows you to input the number of dice you want and how many sides each dice has, then it will roll the dice and display the result. There is also a Random Roll button that will set a random number of dice and sides and calculate the result.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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