Legalized Drug Use
TheMuffinMan
Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11234Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11234Members, Constellation
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">Is there a way?</div> Drugs. If used correctly at the proper time, can make a fun experience into a brilliant one. On the other hand, they can also ruin lives and kill if used incorrectly. The amount of heavy users in the world is scarily high, and I think that there may be a way to help control this. I'll base my idea around the UK, as I live here and am more familiar with the place than any other country.
At the moment, dealing drugs is a very serious offence, which forces the dealers to lead the criminal life-style. This, unfortunately, drags down the quality of the drugs and the safety in using them. Dirty syringes may be used, drugs may be cut with horrible impurities, and it may not be possible to take drugs (especially the hallucinogenics) in a safe and comfortable place with people who can care for you. We need to face facts - the Drug problem will never go away. People will always take and deal hard drugs illegally, no matter what the penalty is for doing so. Therefore, we should devise a way that allows users to take drugs safely, and have decent help on hand should something go wrong (a bad trip, for example).
We should adopt a drug system similar to a legal brothel system. The NHS needs to build centers in the major cities where someone can walk in, pay for a safe (relatively safe, obviously you are always taking chances, even with a safe dosage) dose of a drug and have it administered by trained nurses with proper equipment. Drugs taken within these walls should be legal, provided that the 'customers' stay within the premises. These centers, if possible, should be government funded. The idea of putting a privately owned company in control is definitely not an idea that i like.
To combat dealers selling on the streets for cheaper prices, the current drug laws should be tightened for both the dealers and users. If these laws are strict enough and are actually upholded by the police, then the users will soon migrate to the clinics. This means that they will be taking drugs in a safer fashion, with proper care should they need it.
Socially, this seems like a good idea to me. Economically, I have no idea. Would it this idea be possible for the British government to fund such a thing? Privately, I am sure that it is possible, but could a state fund it? Please discuss.
N.B. When I refer to drugs in this idea, I am referring to the harder, more dangerous drugs such as heroin, cocaine and acid.
At the moment, dealing drugs is a very serious offence, which forces the dealers to lead the criminal life-style. This, unfortunately, drags down the quality of the drugs and the safety in using them. Dirty syringes may be used, drugs may be cut with horrible impurities, and it may not be possible to take drugs (especially the hallucinogenics) in a safe and comfortable place with people who can care for you. We need to face facts - the Drug problem will never go away. People will always take and deal hard drugs illegally, no matter what the penalty is for doing so. Therefore, we should devise a way that allows users to take drugs safely, and have decent help on hand should something go wrong (a bad trip, for example).
We should adopt a drug system similar to a legal brothel system. The NHS needs to build centers in the major cities where someone can walk in, pay for a safe (relatively safe, obviously you are always taking chances, even with a safe dosage) dose of a drug and have it administered by trained nurses with proper equipment. Drugs taken within these walls should be legal, provided that the 'customers' stay within the premises. These centers, if possible, should be government funded. The idea of putting a privately owned company in control is definitely not an idea that i like.
To combat dealers selling on the streets for cheaper prices, the current drug laws should be tightened for both the dealers and users. If these laws are strict enough and are actually upholded by the police, then the users will soon migrate to the clinics. This means that they will be taking drugs in a safer fashion, with proper care should they need it.
Socially, this seems like a good idea to me. Economically, I have no idea. Would it this idea be possible for the British government to fund such a thing? Privately, I am sure that it is possible, but could a state fund it? Please discuss.
N.B. When I refer to drugs in this idea, I am referring to the harder, more dangerous drugs such as heroin, cocaine and acid.
Comments
acid (and many hallucogins) would not be in that category in my opinion as it is not as addictive and damaging as many other drugs such as meth,crack (freebasing) oxycodein(oxycotin, there are a million names), ecstacy and a conrnucopia of pills.
although thats not too say its not harmful or can be easily abused...
although thats not too say its not harmful or can be easily abused... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can see your point. I included acid because having a bad trip can be horrible, and a clinic like this would guarantee that you would get help if you needed it.
Here's another thread that we had a while ago talking about similiar issues, for reference.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89255&hl=' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....topic=89255&hl=</a>
Drugs are addictive... this would never work. Drugs ruin lives, nothing good comes from them. You get hit once and you want it over and over.
Endorphins, my friend. Endorphins make it impossible to use drugs in a "casual" way.
~ DarkATi
Drugs are addictive... this would never work. Drugs ruin lives, nothing good comes from them. You get hit once and you want it over and over.
Endorphins, my friend. Endorphins make it impossible to use drugs in a "casual" way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Drugs are addictive therfore drug injection facilities wouldn't work?
Drugs ruin lives therefore drug injection facilities wouldn't work?
I don't understand the basis of your argument.
Drugs are addictive... this would never work. Drugs ruin lives, nothing good comes from them. You get hit once and you want it over and over.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alot of drugs are addictive, yes. You will not, however, become a desperate addict after your first hit. It takes time for your body to form a chemical addiction to drugs, which is why drugs can be brilliant if used in a proper manner. Anyway, back to the topic at hand.
Drugs do indeed ruin a lot of lives, and they would ruin a lot less if the user could inject safely in a proper environment. A clinic would offer them a much safer and healthier alternative to shooting up in a back alley, sharing a needle with a friend.
Seriously though, yeah, let's have the government endorse doing drugs. Yeah, let's do that. Let's all just have sex with lots of people and shoot up at "safe" facilities and ya know, robbing people, it feels good, let's do that too.
Everyone, use lots of hairspray, because we don't really need the ozone layer... and it feels good. Let's do whatever feels good. We'll start with this and then we'll continue to compromise... because of all the great pleasure we get.
Detect a bit of sarcasm, do you? Good. This idea disgusts me. What good comes from drugs?
*yuck*
~ DarkATi
Seriously though, yeah, let's have the government endorse doing drugs. Yeah, let's do that. Let's all just have sex with lots of people and shoot up at "safe" facilities and ya know, robbing people, it feels good, let's do that too.
Everyone, use lots of hairspray, because we don't really need the ozone layer... and it feels good. Let's do whatever feels good. We'll start with this and then we'll continue to compromise... because of all the great pleasure we get.
Detect a bit of sarcasm, do you? Good. This idea disgusts me. What good comes from drugs?
*yuck*
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, the idea behind programs such as those that give out free syringes is pretty simple to follow. It's apparent that, regardless of the existence of such programs, people will continue to shoot heroin anyways. If the government supplies the needles, at least it can cut down on both the spread of disease and the sickness of any individual user that probably otherwise would intensify as long as they're forced to stay under the table.
That said, the key to curing the "drug problem" is rehabilitation; not punishment.
Agreed, rehabilitate them, don't feed their cravings in a "safe" government facility. It only promotes more drug use.
~ DarkATi
It costs healthcare millions to heal addicts but fat people will be doing the same in a few years and there are alot more fat people than drug addicts.
The war on drugs is LOST, they will never be eradicated so if you can get whatever you want now and be punished and pushed away by society, why not make it legal ? You solve many health concerns and you can also eradicate the dealer who in most cases is a real problem to society (when hard drugs are involved).
Alchohol is a dangerous drug and so are cigarettes and they are legal, how many lives do you think they have ruined?
I smoke lots of marijuana and ive done shrooms but i stay away from seriously addicting drugs because i know they are dangerous and i see their effect around me, although i see many people functioning fine on them i still wouldn't do it.
DarkAti: Do you want to bring back prohibition then? Nicotine and Caffiene based products? What about things that are psychologicaly addictive?
Seriously though, yeah, let's have the government endorse doing drugs. Yeah, let's do that. Let's all just have sex with lots of people and shoot up at "safe" facilities and ya know, robbing people, it feels good, let's do that too.
Everyone, use lots of hairspray, because we don't really need the ozone layer... and it feels good. Let's do whatever feels good. We'll start with this and then we'll continue to compromise... because of all the great pleasure we get.
Detect a bit of sarcasm, do you? Good. This idea disgusts me. What good comes from drugs?
*yuck*
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Good Lord Almighty... no.
Drugs are addictive... this would never work. Drugs ruin lives, nothing good comes from them. You get hit once and you want it over and over.
Endorphins, my friend. Endorphins make it impossible to use drugs in a "casual" way.
~ DarkATi<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its close minded people like you that are holding the country back.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next thing you know we'll be passing out condoms in schools... sheesh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quoted again for emphasis. Thats a GREAT idea... since you said it sarcasticly that makes you the type of person who enforces his morals and values upon others. Condoms promote good health and safe sex. Its not a sign that says "woooo get nakkid" because i have condoms... and i don't see women lining up for sex. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You speak of drugs as though they were the great satan himself. However you most likely have never used them, or even bothered to investigate them further before throwing out your wild accusations. You are judging people before even meeting them. The war on drugs won't be won... the war is fighting the american public. The prohibition failed for this same reason. Take the drugs away from the dealers... put the money, the responsibility, and the distribution in the hands of the government. Will it corrupt the government? How so!?!?? Does distributing the unknown amounts of wieght loss drugs (most of which are more harmful the drugs already illegal) make pharmicuticals (sp) a wasteland filled with hippies and bums?
Drugs are bad... most of them have no use beyond getting a certian feeling. However making them illegal has to be the worst route to take. At least if you're going to outlaw some... outlaw them ALL! Then everyone can be happy and sober in Jesus-land and everyone else can move to mexico or canada. Doesn't sound good to you? will you no longer be able to get your FIX of alcohol and viagra?
Moderators... did i sound harsh? Good... he deserves it... he deserves it for saying this sarcasticly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Next thing you know we'll be passing out condoms in schools... sheesh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and if you think otherwise you have your priorities screwed up.
Although we can abstractly separate law and morals, the lines between them would certainly become blurred when perscription drugs take 7 years of testing to become certified, but Heroin and Crack-Cocaine can be shot up at your friendly neighborhood injection center.
The fact of the matter is, when you legalize something immoral, the lines become morality and legality become all the more blurred. Crack will addict you <i>7 seconds</i> after it is first used. Is that the kind of thing we should be allowing?
The message that should be sent is: "These things are bad, these things will mess you up, so don't do them. If you do them, the consequences are yours alone."
And do you honestly think that if drugs were legalized, they'd become any cheaper? Cartels would form overnight to keep the prices at pre-legalization levels. Do you think they'd be any less dangerous? They'd be the same drugs!
Legalizing addictive and harmful substances is the first step in making this country more like "Brave New World." What's next? Government sanctioned, socialist-backed hedonism?
I disagree with the legalisation of harder drugs because these are mind altering. So you go to this government run center, get high, and then can't even unlock your car door, or even if you take the bus, you end stealing some guy's iPod because it looks cool.
I'm not saying everyone who gets high like this will go out and do something stupid, but the percentage would be a lot higher then the percentage among people who aren't high.
For this reason, I am completely against the harder drugs that alter your mind, or alter your perception of the world significantly, they make you a greater threat to the people around you.
However, I would be okay with legalising softer drugs that make you feel better, without seriously screwing with your judgement or with your perception of the world.
There would have to be something similar to drunk driving (high driving?) penalties because even softer drugs (generally) affect your judgement to some extent. Note that I classify alcohol in this catagory.
Even if underground drug use is common place, legalising it would be worse because that would make drug use more widespread, and to me, more of these mind altering drugs is a bad thing, no if, and or but.
Diazo
Yep. It is my duty to be free from ALL addictions as a Christian, I still drink Soda etc. but I'm not addicted to it AND it isn't illegal. The Bible says to obey the government. (Unless that government contradicts God's commands.) So, prohibition wouldn't bother me at all. This includes psychological addictions, such as lust. It has been a hard fight for my purity these last few years, what with sex being pushed through music, TV, magazines and of course in-person stimuli.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its close minded people like you that are holding the country back. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Back from what?
We have CDs that can be legally purchased in stores but people still go to KaZaA or BearShare or some other P2P client. What leads you to believe that these facilities would stop drug dealers from dealing their drugs? The dealers aren't interested in giving people their fix, they're interested in MONEY. So we'd have more drug users because you could legally get shot-up at a government facility and then we'd still have the gritty underground, where people deal drugs. You'd only be adding a new user base. MORE addicts.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->QUOTE
Next thing you know we'll be passing out condoms in schools... sheesh.
Quoted again for emphasis. Thats a GREAT idea... since you said it sarcasticly that makes you the type of person who enforces his morals and values upon others. Condoms promote good health and safe sex. Its not a sign that says "woooo get nakkid" because i have condoms... and i don't see women lining up for sex. sad-fix.gif<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK, let's take serial killers and release them into society... tell them not to hurt anyone but... if they can't control themselves... we'll drive the get-away car for them. At least they'll be safe, right?
Passing out condoms in schools is ridiculous. We say, "don't have sex". Then we say, "well, if you can't control yourself, at least do it safely." We set teenagers up for failure, we seem to think that teenagers just CAN'T control themselves, which is stupid and untrue.
And as for my views, they aren't my views, they are God's views.
"Render therefore, to all their dues; tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour." - Romans 13:7
"Let every soul be subject to the higher powers." - Romans 13:1a
"Render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's and unto God the things that are God's." - Matthew 22:21b
"Wherefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you for the revelation of Jesus Christ." - 1 Peter 1:13
"Therefore let us not sleep, as do others, but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep, sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us who are of the day be sober; putting on the breastplate of faith and love and for a helmet the hope of salvation." - 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8
"After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do; neither shall ye walk in their ordinances. Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein; I am the Lord your God." - Leviticus 18:3,4
"but as for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord." - Joshua 24:15b
~ DarkATi
Giving a teenager condoms won't influence his want to have sex at all, it will just make him possibly use the condom if he does.
Giving a teenager condoms won't influence his want to have sex at all, it will just make him possibly use the condom if he does. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't make him WANT sex any more, it makes him feel OK with having sex more.
~ DarkATi
Hell I don't even like medication when I have to take it so personally I've very "no thanks I'll pass" when it comes to drug habits.
However I know many of my friends do drugs, most rarely and not a problem this one hot (and rich) girl I knew from grade school got messed up with cocaine (probably the worst in my book). I know many people who are addicted to caffeine even though they would never ever admit it, probably be offended that I called it an addiction.
And though out all this I respect their wishes. I don't tell them what to do. I suggest smoking is bad for them in a subtle yet powerful way and always offer to be there to help. If I see a friend changing from a rarely ever using a potentially addictive product to becoming a problem, I do act. Blunt honesty plus caring is pretty effective actually.
One of the least addictive (if you exclude caffeine which is the least in my experience) is marijuana. I know people who use it. I personally won't smoke it because, well, I don't smoke remember. Sure I might eat a few of the "good" brownies rarely. But I have never seen a person who uses pot alone have an addiction problem. Much like caffeine it is very easy to override. Cocaine and crack are probably the hardest to resist the addiction quality of the drug. Ethanol (most people just call it alcohol) is much worse in my book, being a more potent depressant than people give it credit for, it impairs judgment and drops your dexterity like a piece of lead. Funny when people can't even stand because they are so wasted? Nope, just rather sad and pathetic. Alcohol even tends to depress the complex, delicate emotional control & restrain system and thus allowing for erratic behavior, greatly augmenting violence, negligence, and emotional outbursts. Marijuana tends to make people think "everything is so damned funny and happy," some people tired but the effects are not as dangerous as many other drugs.
Those are my personal observations, objective scientific observations from my environment. Now judging from what I have seen and know chemically, legalizing marijuana might be a good idea. Probably not on a federal level but if each state could vote on it and decide for their region that would be best. Many farmers could benefit, it would be an excellent export for Europe (where it is already legal). And speaking of Europe, I observed that despite more legalization that the drug user was quite low. Heck the biggest problem was people addicted to US cigarettes. Ironic eh? I just see more pros from legalizing marijuana than cons... I guess that's why I'd give it a "vote yes" if I got the choice.
Now on the other hand I'd be for coming down harder on other drugs that are highly addictive.
It's also worth point out that legalizing a drug will initially spike use for a short time and then the demand will plummet because the supply is plentiful and it is no long a "sneaky" or "cool" thing to do anymore.
Incentives work better than disincentives and economic enforcement is often much better than using police manpower. For example, if you make enough taxes on marijuana when you legalize it to make the buying price equivalent to the former street price... then you will nullify that temporary spike and make a lot of money for the treasury which can be spend on plenty of useful things to make the nation better.
I'm just rambling my reaction to this thread's title. Just my 2 cents I guess… make of it what you will.
And do you honestly think that if drugs were legalized, they'd become any cheaper? Cartels would form overnight to keep the prices at pre-legalization levels. Do you think they'd be any less dangerous? They'd be the same drugs!
Legalizing addictive and harmful substances is the first step in making this country more like "Brave New World." What's next? Government sanctioned, socialist-backed hedonism? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
crack heroin and meth are HIGHLY addictive drugs but that doesnt mean after smoking crack once you will become an addict.
i do honestly belive that. As you move through the chain from producer and consumer in the cases of chemical drugs that can be cut you see that for every person who take possesion of the substance with the intent to distrubute, the purity goes down and the price goes up, eliminate the dealer and replace with government and it should go down. Prices also fluctuate according to local drug busts, local shipments, local shootings and local quality. Yes there is the possibility of a group creating a monopoly but anyone still has access to the producers who compete between each other.
IMO most drugs will never be legalized for the simple fact they are grown the best and easiest in poor south american countrys(which would really benefit from the money), why would the U.S legalize a billion dollar market it would have completley no control over.
Heroin is a great example of this. Its presents perhaps one of the highest risks for using of any drug. Why? Well, clearly it's extremely addictive (though it will take 2 weeks of daily use to get <i>physically</i> addicted to it, ie get "the sickness" withdrawal symptoms when your off it, though many people end up being unable to not eventually get to that point simply because it is so mentally addicting). However most junkies will tell you that the most common legal method for quiting it is to get methadone treatment, is actually harder to quit than just dropping heroin through reduction or going cold turkey (which is hell, "the sickness" is by all accounts unbearable and can last for more than a week, most people defiantly need a support group of friends and such to actually pull this off). So why do we try and treat these people by sticking them on a more addictive drug, that is supposedly not anywhere near as pleasing?
Its because getting street heroin is far more dangerous than going to a methadone clinic. Even going beyond the obvious problems of dealing with the criminal element on a daily basis, often living in dangerous location to be able to have access to the drug, heroin is a dangerous just to do. Most of the danger, however, comes from the fact that it is illegal. The process of making heroin is very easy, requiring a few chemical,most of which are available in a child's chemistry set, some opium, and a place to mix the chemicals. Because this is an illegal process, its usually done in out of the way places, dirty out of the way places. Unpurified street heroin will often contain everything from sand and dirt to chunks of glass, which then are injected into your blood. Add to that the fact that the drug is then more often than not cut to some degree, often with chemicals that are far worse for you than the heroin itself. This also leads to a danger from ODing. If a batch of heroin gets on the street that is more pure than normal, there will always be a string of ODs that occurred because the junkies got used to less pure heroin, and when they shoot that amount of purer stuff they die. Finally there is the obvious danger of using dirty needles.
Legalizing it, would solve a great number of these problems. Cleanliness standards would have to be adhered to by producers. The purity would be set, and responsible cutting agents used. Clean needles could more easily be supplied.
However I couldn't see blanket legalizing it, even with an age limit. But rather make it available as an alternative tot eh methadone treatment, to living on t he street for people willing to undergo treatment for their addiction.
Many, if not all, other drugs more or less fit the above list as far as the root of many of the dangers. Almost all of the health risks from ecstasy involve impurities, and what you might do while on it. Meth is perhaps the dirtiest drug around. Even weed is from time to time laced with something that really shouldn't be there.
What really needs to be done, as far s legalizing drugs is to commission a series of un-biased studies on the each drug, and from those decide if the best action is to legalize it as alcohol and tobacco is (personally I would I would just allow weed), legalized for possession and perhaps product, but not available in a gas station (such as acid, ecstasy, blow), in a program like the one I outlined above for heroin or simply is still too dangerous to legalize to any degree (PCP, and probably meth for example).
How to actually get a government to agree to that is a bit beyond me, but it seems like the only responsible way to go about legalizing drugs.
Actually, the school I used to go to does that. They have nurses who go around the classes and teaching a three-day (I think) course about sex. They talk about teen pregnancy, STDs, contraceptives, etc... And you can ask them any question you want about sex. At the end of it, they give you a pamphlet and a free condom and tell you that you can go to the nurse's office any time and get a free condom.
Guess what? I've never heard even ONE story about a teen pregnancy in our school, not one. I'm sure they happen, but definitely not as much as in other schools.
What were you saying about it being a bad idea again? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Bottom line, legal or illegal, drugs are gonna get to kids. These parents don't even care, either! They really are the only ones who can stop the underage drinking and drug use, but no, some parents in my town actually GET THE STUFF FOR THEIR KIDS. What...the...hell.
Okay, that was a bit of a rant. I just hate drugs, I really do; my school system is amazing compared to other counties, but are these kids taking advantage of it? No. Kids are starting in 7th grade. And their parents turn the other cheek. The legalization of drugs really doesn't matter to me anymore, because I know firsthand that nothing stops the spread of these drugs. I would say that the drug problem would be worse if pot were legalized, except I don't think it <i>can</i> get any worse. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyways, maybe things are different in the situtation your in, but in my experiance I haven't found that drug or alcohol use automaticaly cancel out desire to learn, active participation in a school setting, etc.
It can, and thats definatly a problem, but at the same time I know that at my high schookl back in the day, recreational perscription pill use was rehaps highest among the honor students. Granted grades don't equal taking advatage of a schools pontetial, but many of them did. I actualy regret not doing more in high school, though that had less to do with my use than my awkardly lacking social skills.
At anyrate, the reason I bring this up is that I'm tired of people who use drugs being labeled degenerates. Not to lessen the issues you described, nor say that your opinions are wrong, but just to point out that many people use drugs and are still able to fucntion just as well in society, contribute just as much, get just as a good an education. I don't like it when we write off sections of a population for any reason. Perhaps because I seem to fall in to the groups that get, well persecuted is a bit harsh for some of these things, but I can't think of a better word, these days. In the last year alone the state I'm living in has passed laws limited my alcohol consumption, my smoking habits (banned in bars? in flipping Montana? What is that ****? we're supposed to be libertarian damn it!), and my ability to marry whom I want (I'm bi). Prehapse this is why I get a little defensive, but yeah, don't write us off just becasue we made some different choices (or are born with a different sexual oreintation...not to drag this even more off topic, but trust me thats <i>not</i> a choice).
And to bring this all back on topic, this is something that would definatly have to be addressed before any steps towards legalization of anything could happen, make people relise that drug use is not universaly bad, seperate drug use from drug abuse, which is only done with alcohol now.
I remember sitting on the fridge during a party around mine where I just couldn't stop laughing, we all just sat around smiling, sharing jokes (although they may not have been funny at any other time <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) and memories and just relaxing. It was a lovely experience with no repercussions what so ever. If I was in a similar mood I might well take them again... but then again I might not, it wouldn't bother me. Just as I sometimes go out and get off my face drunk, often I have a drink or two, sometimes I just stick to water for no reason than thats all I want. Nicotine? Well it's interesting but that isn't for me so I never took up the habit. Not a fan of coffee or tea, sometimes I drink cola but I prefer orange juice or water personally. I would consider myself a fairly sensible person with a broadmind and so I don't think any substance will ever get a hold on me. I find most of my friends (some not so sensible <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) are pretty much the same and I know a few complete stoners who hold down jobs and do it in moderation.
Moderation is the key for everything.
Next thing you know we'll be passing out condoms in schools... sheesh.
Quoted again for emphasis. Thats a GREAT idea... since you said it sarcasticly that makes you the type of person who enforces his morals and values upon others. Condoms promote good health and safe sex. Its not a sign that says "woooo get nakkid" because i have condoms... and i don't see women lining up for sex. sad-fix.gif<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OK, let's take serial killers and release them into society... tell them not to hurt anyone but... if they can't control themselves... we'll drive the get-away car for them. At least they'll be safe, right?
Passing out condoms in schools is ridiculous. We say, "don't have sex". Then we say, "well, if you can't control yourself, at least do it safely." We set teenagers up for failure, we seem to think that teenagers just CAN'T control themselves, which is stupid and untrue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Serial Killers do something that is wrong.
Teenagers who have sex don't do something that is wrong.
Abstinence education doesn't reduce the rate of sex, but it does increase the portion of sex that doesn't involve condoms.
So what's better, sticking to your ideology or implementing policies that actually work?
1.) The government will sell it for cheaper. Wonder why that crack costs so much for those poor addicts out on the street? because police are looking for it, they will arrest you for using/holding/talking about it, and Its incredibly hard to make it without cops busting you. Risk VS Reward
2.) The government will sell it cleaner. Wonder why those crack addicts are so sick looking? Because the dealers they are forced to go to are greedy... like you said. since you are one of the "untouched" i will explain how the harder drug dealing system works. At the top of the chain is the 100% pure product. as the drug gets smuggled in or delivered, the next person will want to make a profit... like any good business owner. They cut it... with BAD stuff. Rat poison, drain cleaner, hell... anything under the sink I swear. I've heard it all. the end result? Sick addicts who get sicker. The government is like going directly to the source. the pure stuff without the poison.
3.) Believe it or not, the government will not shoot or stab you for buying their product. Again I should explain. Those same greedy dealers will do anything for money, along with the desperate crack addicts.
4.) ... oh what the hell... thats enough typing for you. I feel like i am wasting my time typing back to you. I've discussed the topic before with heavily religious people. I don't mean to generalize (like you oh so love to do) but Religious people all seem to cover their ears and go "lalalalallalallalala" after a while of discussing something with them.
Just a hint of advice my friend... don't take everything your imaginary friend tells you to do so literal.
Giving a teenager condoms won't influence his want to have sex at all, it will just make him possibly use the condom if he does. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesn't make him WANT sex any more, it makes him feel OK with having sex more.
~ DarkATi <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nope...
1.) The government will sell it for cheaper. Wonder why that crack costs so much for those poor addicts out on the street? because police are looking for it, they will arrest you for using/holding/talking about it, and Its incredibly hard to make it without cops busting you. Risk VS Reward
2.) The government will sell it cleaner. Wonder why those crack addicts are so sick looking? Because the dealers they are forced to go to are greedy... like you said. since you are one of the "untouched" i will explain how the harder drug dealing system works. At the top of the chain is the 100% pure product. as the drug gets smuggled in or delivered, the next person will want to make a profit... like any good business owner. They cut it... with BAD stuff. Rat poison, drain cleaner, hell... anything under the sink I swear. I've heard it all. the end result? Sick addicts who get sicker. The government is like going directly to the source. the pure stuff without the poison.
3.) Believe it or not, the government will not shoot or stab you for buying their product. Again I should explain. Those same greedy dealers will do anything for money, along with the desperate crack addicts.
4.) ... oh what the hell... thats enough typing for you. I feel like i am wasting my time typing back to you. I've discussed the topic before with heavily religious people. I don't mean to generalize (like you oh so love to do) but Religious people all seem to cover their ears and go "lalalalallalallalala" after a while of discussing something with them.
Just a hint of advice my friend... don't take everything your imaginary friend tells you to do so literal. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, we'd both be wasting our words to continue this.
I respect your opinion, I just completely disagree; so, no big deal.
~ DarkATi