Ns: 2d Alpha Released

AgentAgent Join Date: 2004-02-10 Member: 26330Members, Constellation
edited April 2005 in NS General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">In Harm's Way...</div> Hi all!

It's about time I let the mainstream community in on my latest project: NS 2D!

The project is called In Harm's Way and plays just like commandermode in the real game. You can play as the Marine commander, giving waypoints to your troops and placing structures, weapons and pickups, with the aim of destroying the enemy hive (or the other marine base!). Alternatively, you can play as the Aliens, also in commandermode! You start with a hive and can secure resources, build all the different chambers, gestate your skulks into higher lifeforms and attack the marine base!

The game plays just the same as the real game, so any NS fan will be interested!

The game is still in its early stages and features only very basic graphics at this stage, but the core game engine itself is almost complete and the game is fully playable. It's time for some serious playtesting and tweaking in the interim between now and getting proper graphics up and running.

Part of the reason I am posting here is to find someone interested in the project who is willing to work on the graphics and artwork to contribute to the game. If you're interested, drop me a line! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

You can download the current Alpha release of the game (IHW v0.2.0) from the game's main website, linked below.

Enjoy, and please comment (constructively, if you don't mind!)

- Agent

Website link: <a href='http://members.optushome.com.au/sektor/ihw/index.htm' target='_blank'>In Harm's Way</a>


  • Raven_XIRaven_XI Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12032Members, Constellation
    Ive been playing this game for probly the longest out of anyone besides Agent, Its a fun game but just try not to get to frustrated with the path finding of the marines <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • KaliKali Join Date: 2002-07-01 Member: 858Members
    Great idea. I hope to see further version of your project. I put up news at <a href='http://www.natural-selection.de' target='_blank'>Natural-Selection.de</a>
  • AgentAgent Join Date: 2004-02-10 Member: 26330Members, Constellation
    edited April 2005
    Heh. Thanks for the plug, I appreciate it! There's a longer discussion about the game taking place on the AusNS forums <a href='http://www.ausns.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10984' target='_blank'>HERE</a> if anyone wants to participate.

    For anyone who's downloaded and played the game, please comment! I am seeking feedback so that I can make a bigger and better NS2D. The more input and suggestions I receive, the better I can make the game!

    I am also looking for a talented artist willing to volunteer his or her services towards the project. My previous art man no longer has time to maintain the project and I need some high quality stuff. Please drop me a line.

    For those who prefer real-time discussion about the game, the official IRC channel for the game is on irc.gamesurge.net #InHarmsWay. You'll find me there personally most of the time.
  • CerebralCerebral Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17689Members
    edited April 2005
    Coming from a person that has taken a game design class and made a game of my own I can say that what you have so far is great. I know how much work it takes to get even some of the smallest things to work especially in a game involving pathfinding/AI techniques. I really enjoyed the part of the game that is finished and i'm sure it will just keep getting better and better as you add to it. I can't wait to see a fully functional product. Just the thing i need to waste more time at work. =x

    *edited out dumb questions* ok i'm retarded and need to RTFM

    Great Game so far. =)
  • BreakthroughBreakthrough Texture Artist (ns_prometheus) Join Date: 2005-03-27 Member: 46620Members, Constellation
    This looks pretty cool, and should prove to make a great game. I can't wait to see what the releases to come will look like!
  • CerebralCerebral Join Date: 2003-06-25 Member: 17689Members
    hate to post twice so close together but in case you weren't aware there must be some heavy memory leaks or something b/c after playing 15 minutes my computer ran out of virtual memory to address and i had a runtime error. =x (still a fun game though)

    funny thing is that this is closer to the real ns than you might suspect if you talk to server operators <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • SupernornSupernorn Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Members, Constellation
    thats cool. Why dont you grab top down screens of the NS maps and try to get them working ;D
  • DrummerDrummer Join Date: 2004-02-18 Member: 26654Members
    great game. like you said, the pathfinding is a little sketchy, but it works. and some buttons to drop weapons and med/ammo packs would be nice. i had to take down the hive with lmg's and an armory constantly resupplying them <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. i like how you made it sound EXACTLY like ns. OH, i got an idea. you could make jetpacks that increase the marines movement speed. and HA that just gives them more health. it might be a good idea to have a building repair system. maybe not like in ns where its an actualy weapon, maybe another building. like a nanobot factory <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> overall, great work. works really nice for just an alpha
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    Am I the only one who thought of this:
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Unknown Worlds Entertainment takes great pleasure in announcing its first retail game: Natural Selection for the Nintendo DS! Dubbed "NS/DS", this hand-held wonder will bring NS to a completely new market, taking full advantage of the quirky DS' features.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • BrackharBrackhar Santa Monica Join Date: 2003-10-26 Member: 22004Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Onos
    Looks interesting, I'll poke at it as soon as I get back from class. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Forum Moderators, Constellation
    This is awesome. And it's not even finished!
    I really like commanding aliens for some reason. Probably because of the DCs...
  • NEO_PhyteNEO_Phyte We need shirtgons&#33; Join Date: 2003-12-16 Member: 24453Members, Constellation
    edited April 2005
    the HA is godly ATM.
    pure healthbar + medpack giving 50% life = not dying anytime soon

    also, sometimes marines get "revived" by medpacks

    :edit: also, the skulk and lerk sprites are backwards
  • typical_skeletontypical_skeleton Join Date: 2003-02-24 Member: 13944Members
    Cool idea. Hopefully the NS team doesn't mind (obviously it's a labor of love, and not for profit.. so why should they?)
  • QwertyMcDunkinQwertyMcDunkin Join Date: 2002-10-06 Member: 1443Members
    The graphics remind me of Total Annihiliation
  • ScrapScrap Join Date: 2005-01-06 Member: 32953Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-typical skeleton+Apr 14 2005, 04:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (typical skeleton @ Apr 14 2005, 04:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cool idea. Hopefully the NS team doesn't mind (obviously it's a labor of love, and not for profit.. so why should they?) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    well the homesite of NS:2d stated that they had the premission to make this mod mod.Oh yeh i cant figure out how can you hand out weapons.Read the manual but still, do i have to select the armory arms lab and then ?
  • Guvnuh4Guvnuh4 Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2198Members, Constellation
    i think there's hotkeys for it... but again, i haven't really figured it out either... plus it crashed when i was playing aliens

    and the damn ppl **** me off esp fade, why does it always move like that??
  • GolathGolath Join Date: 2003-05-20 Member: 16532Members
    Guns are I, O, and P.
  • AgentAgent Join Date: 2004-02-10 Member: 26330Members, Constellation
    edited April 2005
    Hi guys - thanks for the feedback, I'll try to address everyone's comments. If I miss anything, let me know!

    First of all, many of the things raised I've fixed in the current working version. The release you have all downloaded is now a few weeks old. The runtime error is a vectoring problem related to line of sight. I think it's happening when a unit that has died and was *just* removed from the game tries to look around and see enemy units anyway, and his line of sight vector doesn't exist - so, error. I'm working on that one. The backwards Skulks and Lerks have been fixed (!) - my previous art man made them upside down! Reviving marines is a big one that I haven't been able to fix. It's bothered me for months now, but I'm always revisiting it to see if I can see something new. I definately need to fix that one. Bugs will always be bugs!

    I did try to get the original maps into the game at one stage but my preliminary testing tileset doesn't allow for diagonals or curves and everything came out skewed! When I have some proper tilesets up from proper artists I will definately look into remaking the originals.

    The buttons for dropping equipment are on the way, I am working on that for the next release. In the meantime, some people haven't figured it out, so you drop weapons by pressing 'I' near an armory, or 'O' and 'P' near an armslab (that's for Shotgun, HMG and GL respectively). You can drop HA by pressing 'K' near a Protolab or a Jetpack with 'L' near a protolab. They do exactly what Drummer suggested - a bit of armor and a speed boost with the JP, and a large armor boost and slight speed decrease with HA.

    Align mentioned that he liked the DC's on the alien side - they are overpowered at the moment because there's no limit to how many you can make. Each one gives an armor bonus to all units up to a maximum of 30%, but beyond that they still heal nearby stuff like the original NS. In this 2D style game, that's a lot more powerful than it is in the original NS, so I might look at nerfing that in the future. Comments would be helpful.

    Typical spoke of permission to make an NS game. I spoke to Flayra directly via email (it must have been nine or ten months ago now) asking for permission to use the resources from NS to make a spinoff of his game. He said that was fine as long as I was promoting NS (which I am) and I gave full credit (which I have - check the credits list). So, Harm is put forward with Flayra's full permission and consent.

    Oh, and something that's been in the game for several releases now but not documented anywhere - if you select a unit and press DELETE it will suicide him. If you select a building and DELETE it, it will recycle it and you'll get half your cash back! Useful for relocating <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Drummer also mentioned repairing - this is something I've been thinking about for a while. At the moment you get around it by recycling damaged buildings and rebuilding them, which is workable but not the best. The problem with using Welders is that each unit can only carry one weapon, and if I give them a Welder they will be able to heal buildings but wont' be able to fire at the enemy. It's conceivable that I make the Welder a weapon of its own, like like in the original NS, but I think Marines chasing Aliens around with a Welder is more of a novelty than a serious attempt at a weapon! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> There are other alternatives that I will explore for the next release. The nanobot factory you mentioned is something I am planning for a future race - I am hoping to expand this game beyond Marines vs Aliens (!) Hush hush... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    Now, I'm pretty sure that's everything! On to the current updates. Right now I'm working on:

    - Alien AI so that you can play against the Aliens properly.
    - Proper tech tree with upgrades and research
    - Structure and equipment dependancies that require upgrades to function
    - New interface features
    - A few nice little visual effects
    - Proper OBS functionality, with Beacon and Motion Tracking upgrades
    - Phase gates

    There are a few things I need to consider for the future of Harm, too. There are a couple of problems that are going to prevent me from making the aliens exactly as they should be. The biggest thing is that all units of one type have to have the same stats. That means, all skulks have to have the same stats (speed, damage, attack rate etc), all lerks have to have the same stats, etc. In other words, I can't have one skulk running faster than another skulk, or one fade causing more damage than another. It's a game engine thing (I never planned for that capability way back when I was designing the core game engine), so it means that we aren't going to have individual 'Trait' upgrades for each alien. In the meantime, I've given each chamber its own automatic functions:

    Defence Chamber: Heals any units or structures nearby. Gives a small regeneration ability to all aliens on the map. Increases armor of all aliens and all structures on the map. In other words, building a DC automatically gives all your lifeforms both the Regeneration and Carapace traits.

    Movement Chamber: Increases the attack power of all lifeforms on the map. Sort of like Focus without the attack speed decrease. Celerity is impossible, but teleporting to other hives *might* be possible. It has the same problems as phase gates - I'm working on it.

    Sensory Chamber: At the moment it does absolutely nothing at all. It provides a line of sight, and that's *all*. Cloaking is a possibility that I will explore in the future, but I will have to plan a few code changes for that. We'll see how we go. In the meantime, can anybody think of some other cool traits or upgrades I can make these chambers give?

    Well I can't think of much else to write. Bug-reports, wishlists, comments, artists offering their services?
  • PvtBonesPvtBones Join Date: 2004-04-25 Member: 28187Members
    heres what I got on my crash report hope it helps (I also got the memory leak)

    PathToEXE=C:\blah\blah\blah\blah\In Harm's Way\CrashOn_04_14_05.txt

    fun game, especially now that I know how to drop HA >_>
  • TrakenTraken Join Date: 2004-11-14 Member: 32797Members
    edited April 2005
    I love this.

    1. Better AI (thats a given lol)
    2. Dropping could be worked on. Like icons for shotguns and medpacks
    3. IMO, shotguns are too powerful.
    4. This thing seems to suck up virtual memory. I crashed after about an hour playing. <!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->m_dwRuntimeErrorDWORD=0
    <!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
    Btw, I love it! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • AgentAgent Join Date: 2004-02-10 Member: 26330Members, Constellation
    The memory issue is one that I need to work on. I wasn't aware that there was a problem untli I released the Alpha to everyone. I'll look into it.

    On another note, phase gates are now in the game and fully operational! This is a big step in the game, as phase gates are a major component of any attack. This is sure to change playing strategy <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • ZaggyZaggy NullPointerException The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24214Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, Subnautica Playtester
    edited April 2005

    LOVE IT!

    Can't wait until next version <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • DrummerDrummer Join Date: 2004-02-18 Member: 26654Members
    this memory leak is annoying, and are you sure you put in phase gates? i reinstalled and they werent there
  • IBTIBT Join Date: 2003-10-22 Member: 21879Members
    It looks great. If you want, I could make icons for your buttons instead of just A-B and OC.
    The minimap could be a little bigger...
    on the bright side of the virtual mem issue, its increasing the page file on my C drive. (just got new HDD.)
    Other than that, i can't wait to see the Beta versions! Keep up the good work!
  • NolSinklerNolSinkler On the Clorf Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26560Members, Constellation
    Very nice. Only thing I can say is that it crashes a lot, and it just used all of my virtual memory. Aliens are also overpowered (as in, very easy to play). Few ideas for this (good) game:

    Aliens: Allow gestating to other lifeforms after you've gestated once. It sucks having to kill yourself to get a new alien.


    Skulk: Make it have slightly more health or something. Skulk is very hard to play with in this game. Oh yeah, turn it's sprite around (like someone said).

    Gorge: Nothing really here, gorge seems good all around.

    Lerk: Turn sprite around. Raise cost to 40. Also, have it so that when it gets close enough, the lerk will bite (I think it's a good idea).

    Fade: Raise speed a little. Raise cost to 75.

    Onos: Raise speed just enough so that it can catch marines who run. Not the best idea to have marines the same speed as an onos. Maybe lower health a bit. Raise cost to 150 (not good to be able to have onos at a game start).


    RTs: Nothing here.

    Hives: Raise cost to like 120.

    DCs: Tone them down...seriously.

    You already mentioned MCs and SCs. SCs definitely need a buff.

    As for marines...well, I played them last night. Don't remember much about them, but it was fun to play as them. Their game seemed balanced (but that makes sense, because you've had them in longer).

    Also, an idea to sort of fix the problem of no faster aliens and whatnot: Simply make them a new class, only with the same model, and everything else the same, except for the stat that you want to change about them. Or something.
  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
    Comments: Excellent concept AND exicution. We all know its an alpha so this is constructive critisim here.

    - Marine pathing: When you right click to focus fire... sometimes the marines would simply continue walking towards the target while shooting. If i wanted my marines to do that I'd right click NEAR the enemy. They should stop and keep at max range when selected to fire on a specific target. Also... try ordering a group of marines down a two square corridor. 2-3 rines go to where you want the others go in endless circles. Just letting you know.

    - Healthpack/ammo packs: I like the whole system involving med/ammo respawning from the armory... but making them cost res kinda confuses me. If they costed res... why not just make them infinite. If you want a rine to survive at that cost... so be it. If they were free then the limitation system setup would stop medspam.

    - Marine grouping. I'm sure you've got this planned out, but right now you can't form squads (and thus my leet squad 5 uber tactics are useless). Makes it a pain when microing elsewhere and you need to move units.

    - A screen move sensetivity option would be nice. The mini map is terribly small (unlike commander mode in NS) and i usually was forced to scroll to find the right spot then to click on that tiny map to find the right spot. Also, because the mini map is so small you have a hard time seeing exactly whats happening. On second thought... just make the minimap bigger

    - No gorges... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> <3

    - A recycle feature for buildings would be nice.

    - The Grenade launcher/rocket thingy doesn't seem to work. i had a HA using it and all he did was walk up to the building (see top issue) and sit there. Unless the graphic of the gun is small enough to not notice or the gun is quiet... It doesn't work.

    keep up the good work!

    <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • Cj_the_DjCj_the_Dj Join Date: 2004-03-18 Member: 27398Members
    -i can't seem to find the button for the hmg. the manual says its "w" but that just takes me to the advanced buildings tab.
    -aliens vs marine buildings - marine do so much damage to alien buildings so fast. -marine buildings take forever to kill as alien. perhaps make aliens do more damage to buildings?
    -jp- near useless?
    -pathfinding: i know its alpha and all, but **** its annoying.

    -infinite meds = invincible HA's (which i hope will be nerfed)
    -map size is fine imo.
    -there ARE gorges
    -click on a building then press your DELETE button to recycle
    -you have to get really close for the GL to work. even then, they do little damage. perhaps a buff would suffice.

    otherwise, the game is great fun! good job xD
  • FangsFangs Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13506Members
    Very interesting. I can't wait to see this project mature. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Cj the Dj+Apr 15 2005, 06:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cj the Dj @ Apr 15 2005, 06:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> @trevalyn:

    -infinite meds = invincible HA's (which i hope will be nerfed)
    -map size is fine imo.
    -there ARE gorges
    -click on a building then press your DELETE button to recycle
    -you have to get really close for the GL to work. even then, they do little damage. perhaps a buff would suffice.

    otherwise, the game is great fun! good job xD <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah the GL should have the longest range IMO. As for invincible HAs... there really should be welders added along with armor meters on each unit. Right click a friendly unit/structure to weld.

    Thanks on telling me how to recycle... i read the manual and must have missed that.
  • Cj_the_DjCj_the_Dj Join Date: 2004-03-18 Member: 27398Members
    forget that GL damage buff. i confused it with something else. damage is fine.
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