Effects Of Overpowering Opposing Teams
Swift
Lost Keys Join Date: 2005-02-19 Member: 41683Members, Constellation
Lost Keys Join Date: 2005-02-19 Member: 41683Members, Constellation
These new updates are nice at first, I was excited, but this still concerns me....
I miss the old days, with huge 5 hour games. ****, I heard of a game lasting 70 hours!
The futility of small movements was what made the game so dun and frusterating and rewarding when won, and FORCED people to learn. The new NS, everything is more powerful.
Maybe the dev team should consider nerfing things instead of buffing them. Once a large battle is won, you can tell which team will win. In the cal match, Ter lost 4 JP Shotties their last round, and everyone knew they were dead then.
Why not make NS a struggle for survival, not a competition to kill. Make teams able to rebound if they are a little lucky...
I am glad the dev team is atleast EVENING out the teams a little with this new patch, but in truth both the aliens and marines are too over powered.
Since 3.0 I have not had a 1 hour or longer game.
I miss the old days, with huge 5 hour games. ****, I heard of a game lasting 70 hours!
The futility of small movements was what made the game so dun and frusterating and rewarding when won, and FORCED people to learn. The new NS, everything is more powerful.
Maybe the dev team should consider nerfing things instead of buffing them. Once a large battle is won, you can tell which team will win. In the cal match, Ter lost 4 JP Shotties their last round, and everyone knew they were dead then.
Why not make NS a struggle for survival, not a competition to kill. Make teams able to rebound if they are a little lucky...
I am glad the dev team is atleast EVENING out the teams a little with this new patch, but in truth both the aliens and marines are too over powered.
Since 3.0 I have not had a 1 hour or longer game.
Comments
I completely agree with the topic - make games last longer by making everything, well, slower or something. Make bullets do less damage, make jetpacks cost less and be less useful, make fades less powerful but cheaper, make everything last longer. Right now, it's as if people just want to get the game over with <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
First, a 70 hour game? That is impossible.
I remember playing 3,4 or 5 hour games in 1.04 and by the 3 or 4 hour mark, the entity count became so overwhelming the entire server was playing with 300+ ping followed by a server crash.
Contrary to popular opinion, the epic games of old weren't really constant combat. It was a turtling marine team managing to outfit HA train after HA train while relocated in a hive until the aliens either 1.) Demolished their base while they were away or 2.) Lost a hive.
Occasionally I did have a truly "epic" game which happened because of the newness of the game and unrefined teamplay. Generally, either aliens or marines would hit a point of having all the strategical advantage and they would fail to use that advantage to ensure victory through such methods as killing res or blocking marines advance.
Tactics such as no pg hive rushes, jp/hmg hive rushes, lerking down pgs and so on worked because of poor team communication and scouting.
The only thing that was making games epic in the past was the epic incompetence of the players, not game design. Now NS, having been around a few years, has more people who understand game fundamentals and strategy and how to capitalize on their technology advantages at the key points of the game, resulting in swifter conclusion.
70 hours? MUST have been 70 minutes.
Once rines have full upgrades they can just build more than 10 ips and extend a game to some hours. no mater how many 3 hive onoses will come it can take forever.
Rines will have a ratio of 1:10 and still have a good chance to kill 5 3 hive onoses in umbra AND expand their base.
Seen it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only thing that was making games epic in the past was the epic incompetence<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not true. At that time FFA was a rendez-vous to all clanners who didn't have the time to play all night long or didn't have a match. This was equal to clanmatch in a maner, but with more liberty (sorry guys conjugal duty calls; see ya.....). And the noobs were learning faster than today, because they were interested in the mechanics of NS strategy. This was a small world were everybody knew each other.
At that time an error was allowed. Now it's like cowboy duels. The one who kill faster have better chance to win. All is faster but all is a "one time thing" and it's over. Like senso strategy. Put the 3 you win.. loose one (or put only 2) you loose.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->...resulting in swifter conclusion. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Commander and alien where forced to do so because each new version was forbiding this or that to happen. It only stayed the critical things. I remember a time where HA and JP were not at the same price... I remember a time where JP sucked more than have nothing...
@theclam
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->half the map is full of OCs and the other half is full of turrets<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THe problem can be solved. enlarge the radius of turets and OC (OC really need this to avoid OC stacks).
I tned to agree with swift. Since 3.0 it's hard to have a real pleasure beating an enemy who made you pay (in the first place) the fact you're just alive in the early game. Games tends to be: "they rock or they die"
I believe there still are some great games being played out there in some pubs. They are pretty rare though, but you can still have some fun anyway! And about base defense, I find it doesn't fit in its role anymore... It's no longer scary to face some turrets or OCs because they fall so easily. Back in the days, turrets were costy but effective, they could hold your outpost by the time your marines get back there!
I'd like to see how would teams play if base defence was more effective. I always dream to see Skulks/Marines covering their Gorge/GLer when facing Turrets/OCs, but unfortunately, I think I'd only see this in a pre-arranged scenario <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
while NS is complex for an HL mod, relatively speaking, it's a small game when compared to others.
What makes you WANT to try and fail to do an HA siege on a hive over, and over, and over... and over... and over... and over, etc, etc. It isn't THAT fun... in fact, it gets quite boring.
i don't have time to sit around for five hours, waiting for enough res to outfit everyone with HA and SG. I enjoy NS as a "medium-length" game. I want to start a match, go along with the flow, and have it END. I don't want to run around aimlessly for two hours, only to leave, then come back.. and see the "same game" (which is now entirely different, but still the same session) going on.
This is lame. This is bad game design. Games should have a start and finish, even multiplayer games. If the game is stalemating (is that a word?) a lot of the time, something is off and needs to be fixed.
People just like to think they enjoyed the epic games, but I think with more balance tweaking, they'll see that it's far, far, FAR more sensible to have 20-40 minute long games that end somewhere.
That's reasonable gaming, not gaming designed purely for the nerdy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/rant
while NS is complex for an HL mod, relatively speaking, it's a small game when compared to others.
What makes you WANT to try and fail to do an HA siege on a hive over, and over, and over... and over... and over... and over, etc, etc. It isn't THAT fun... in fact, it gets quite boring.
i don't have time to sit around for five hours, waiting for enough res to outfit everyone with HA and SG. I enjoy NS as a "medium-length" game. I want to start a match, go along with the flow, and have it END. I don't want to run around aimlessly for two hours, only to leave, then come back.. and see the "same game" (which is now entirely different, but still the same session) going on.
This is lame. This is bad game design. Games should have a start and finish, even multiplayer games. If the game is stalemating (is that a word?) a lot of the time, something is off and needs to be fixed.
People just like to think they enjoyed the epic games, but I think with more balance tweaking, they'll see that it's far, far, FAR more sensible to have 20-40 minute long games that end somewhere.
That's reasonable gaming, not gaming designed purely for the nerdy. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
/rant <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. I favor 30-45 minute games. They have the same amount of back and forth as a long game, but you don't lose interest because you keep on doing the same things over and over again. You also don't have an insane amount of static defense to contend with.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->THe problem can be solved. enlarge the radius of turets and OC (OC really need this to avoid OC stacks). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How would this help? Both teams would use the same amount of static defense, but they would just spread it out over a larger area.
Oh yeh and if i got less than 2 hours of time to play ns i woulnt play at all because i wanted to finish a game always and not quit in the middle.
not that I don’t have fun today, I just miss the feel of an epic struggle, if feels like it is just a skirmish instead of something to fight tooth and nail for.
In 1.04 and around that time, yes there was the element of people making errors...but it wasn't *punished* in the way those errors are now.
it was all down to res flow management back then, making sure that aliens evolved at the right times to ensure that the most res over flowed to the gorge. The games would generally go as fairly balanced things (given peoples new nature to the game as much as the internal balance) and then the marines would generally lock stuff down.
If aliens were competant enough they'd at least get a second hive and unlock the fade, definately formidable then as it is now. A few turret farmed res points would go down, aliens would slowly reach a point of overflow. Marines would tech up and go after a hive.
This hive battle would be the first crucial aspect, and if the aliens win they have the upper hive, especially if the third hive is left in a state. they have the res to properly lame it all up and take it, get the onos. Of course now they have map control but they have no res...marines on the otherhand have tech upgrades but no map.
So they go and take res back, slowly building their res...and have an assault...all the while aliens are donig nothing but attacking, slowly letting the res trickle in. If they're succesful the marines have wasted their res, and the aliens have a full barrel of it again, even if they lose the hive.
This was how things went...without RFK everything was about background res control and how individual battles went. A bit of luck for the aliens against a two hive lock down marine side could mean a break through, but only until the next battle, and if they won that...it would be the final battle...but that doesn't mean it's over. one side built up res and used it, then the other, each side gaining an advantage for a while before losing it again somehow (through luck or something else).
now marines can pick up needed res not through map control but through a skilled player sitting at a vital spot with enough comm support. Aliens don't need every player to make sure that res is secured because if one goes on a killing spree then he's certain to fade earlier...the whole point of securing two hives in older games.
The whole game dynamic has changed, and the moving of the goalposts for class evoution along with RFK will mean we'll never have long games unless each side consistantly makes mistakes now...I don't know that it's a bad thing, I'm just glad I also had the old times of "epic games" as well. Personally 30 minute games are probably about right.
games last much longer now in the two-hive vs. proto-tech phase. Aliens don't collapse after one failed attack because free upgrades allows them to still be effective on low-res. Before, losing a res node was game over because of the telescoping effect of losing res + having to spend additional, rare res in order to get back in the game.
once marines learn how to secure a res lockdown versus two-hive aliens, I think it will become the central phase of the game. which is good. it'll be a phase instead of one decisive engagement.
when i first started playing the game, for around 3-4 months', i never knew about RFK <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
w00t i'm greedy-free!
I believe there still are some great games being played out there in some pubs. They are pretty rare though, but you can still have some fun anyway! And about base defense, I find it doesn't fit in its role anymore... It's no longer scary to face some turrets or OCs because they fall so easily. Back in the days, turrets were costy but effective, they could hold your outpost by the time your marines get back there!
I'd like to see how would teams play if base defence was more effective. I always dream to see Skulks/Marines covering their Gorge/GLer when facing Turrets/OCs, but unfortunately, I think I'd only see this in a pre-arranged scenario <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, we were referring to the NS_ gamemode. CO_ is meant to be for short quick games.....
I believe there still are some great games being played out there in some pubs. They are pretty rare though, but you can still have some fun anyway! And about base defense, I find it doesn't fit in its role anymore... It's no longer scary to face some turrets or OCs because they fall so easily. Back in the days, turrets were costy but effective, they could hold your outpost by the time your marines get back there!
I'd like to see how would teams play if base defence was more effective. I always dream to see Skulks/Marines covering their Gorge/GLer when facing Turrets/OCs, but unfortunately, I think I'd only see this in a pre-arranged scenario <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, we were referring to the NS_ gamemode. CO_ is meant to be for short quick games..... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am perfectly aware of that, that's why I've written :
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><u>It has nothing to do with regular games</u>, but I found it amazing how it could last that long<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The rest of my post was regarding NS types of games. Or did I write something wrong? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->