Fade's
ViolenceJack
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5624Members
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5624Members
Yes they were underpowerd on v1 now there abit overpowerd, Acid rocket can kill a marine in less than a second unless he has heavyarmour on.
Id say the only underpowering thing about them on v1 was the fact they died really quick and moved slow. those both got sorted, acidrocket was made more powerful <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> what for. I surggested makeing it twice dmg for buildings but it was good for killing marines anyway now its just instantanious.
Another point about the fade, not that acid rocket kills so bloody easyly unless you take on heavy armour, it can take a good beating, raising the health was good but was there a need in making marines weapons weaker.
any way, all in all i thought fade v marine was fine in v1 only problem was when he came to attacking structures Bile bomb was for that. You only got that with hive 3 though.
i nearly emptied a full hmg clip into a fade at point blank while he was slashing me, then i died.
You have pretty much succesfully swaped the sides, where it is hard for marines and easy for aliens. if you want to make things fair you with make the weak side stronger or the strong side weaker, dont do at same time.
Id say the only underpowering thing about them on v1 was the fact they died really quick and moved slow. those both got sorted, acidrocket was made more powerful <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> what for. I surggested makeing it twice dmg for buildings but it was good for killing marines anyway now its just instantanious.
Another point about the fade, not that acid rocket kills so bloody easyly unless you take on heavy armour, it can take a good beating, raising the health was good but was there a need in making marines weapons weaker.
any way, all in all i thought fade v marine was fine in v1 only problem was when he came to attacking structures Bile bomb was for that. You only got that with hive 3 though.
i nearly emptied a full hmg clip into a fade at point blank while he was slashing me, then i died.
You have pretty much succesfully swaped the sides, where it is hard for marines and easy for aliens. if you want to make things fair you with make the weak side stronger or the strong side weaker, dont do at same time.
Comments
Oh yeah and you didn't need an apostrophe in "fade's"
Acid rockets do 60 dmg at a rate of 1 per second. Heavy armour is, what, like 250? So it would take more than 6 direct hits to kill a HA.
And you unloaded a whole clip into a fade you say? That's not possible. At point blank a HA with HMG will take down a fade long before he can slash you to death, as long as you're not missing.
Oh yeah and you didn't need an apostrophe in "fade's"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok. You want to play that game? You're exclamation (eg. wow) should be separated with an exclamation mark, rather than tacked on to the sentence with no punctuation. There is a similar problem with your second sentence. You need a comma for the "Oh yeah".
As for your rude and sarcastic dismissal of the original poster's point: 10 damage just happens to be a 20% increase from the original damage. That's a pretty decent increase.
so work as a team. and NEVER, EVER go alone.
I could have said the same for your "no need for condescension" post... (besides, I did address the issue at hand, which you have yet to do)
Fades are designed to take lone marines like you or I take afternoon tea. 2 marines would have a chance; 3 or more, the Fade needs to start worrying. That's by design.
people have been playing fade for a few days now and learned how to aim the rocket, which isnt that easy, especially when moving. if you played some quake game with a rocketlauncher you will adapt quick. and in a few months there will be fade players that do direct hits from almost any distance and angle, repedately.
the same goes for the marines and the HMG. ive seen some marines on attack rampage munch trough countless aliens in one run,
aliens shouting "omg we have to group and gang up on that guy!!". must have been some long time CS player
i think its amusing how people say "ohhh its so unbalanced" by playing the game only a few days.
we can currently only make observations, but we are not qualyfied to make any judgements.
There were many times were we were walking around in full team apart from one man which was cmder. which i think was about 4-5 ppl then 3 fades come along 2 of ares go down pretty much in an instant as they have no heavy armour then the couple with heavyarmour fireing hmgs, i think they maybe got 1 before they had to retreat from nearly dieing. I was one of the first 2 as i had jetpack.
on v1 with me been Fade i could take marines on easy with acidrockets
Firing Acid rockets is easy, its just like a rocketlauncher in anygame, just shoot at their feet or the wall they are near too. You dont have to hit dead on, its a rocket, it explodes.
What the hell is the ratio of marines on Onos then you normaly get about 3-4 on ya as well on an average server atm.
I agree with what Coil said, first of all, u're not supposed to be out there by yourself. Secondly, something is wrong with ur team if the other team has Fades and u have no motion-tracking, or upgraded armor, or new weapons, or anything. That basically means while the aliens took their time to build a new hive...your command's been....I dunno, baking cookies.
[edit] Jack, NOT 3 marines with Heavy-Armors, just NORMAL equipment. On average 2-standard-equip marines can kill 1 Fade but one of the marines will die for sure. While 3-standard-equip marines can kill 1 Fade without anyone dying.
If the aliens have two hives and the marines have no armor upgrades, then the aliens are playing more effectively, and deserve to be winning.
Really, the key to this game is perspective: It is designed to reward the side with better strategies and more initiative. If you get taken out by a fade in one second, your first thought shouldn't be "This game is unbalanced and the aliens are too strong!!!!" Rather, it should be "Crap, these aliens have their acts together, and my team/commander is not matching their upgrades effectively!!!"
Though we often speak in mathematical equations here, there are too many variables around to call it how you see it.
A fade kills a marine in one second. Well, hmmm:
Was the marine hurt?
Was his armor upgraded?
Were his weapons upgraded or powerful enough to deter the fade from a full on assault?
Did the fade have adrenaline? If so, what level?
Did it have carapace? If so, what level?
Was it being healed by a nearby health chamber?
Was it cloaked, enabling it to score a full-on hit from point blank range?
And on . . . and on . . . and on . . .
ok we had armour upgrade lvl2, now i think with lvl2 armour upgrade you shouldnt die as quick as that by acidrockets.
Every single game i played last night the marines got about 2-3 rts at the most, then aliens got 2nd hive about same time which means they got fades. I dunno if any one has read the descriptions of the weapons but it says acidrocket is ment to be effective against players, it was now its abit too effective. It doesnt matter if the marines go around in a group if you take em in a corridor you can kill most of them in 3-4 shots (which is what you can get off with full energy) if any others remain you just slash em up or wait to regain energy. If you have adrenaline then you can just acidrocket them all easy.
I was in a marine base with fade upgrades were carapace and adrenaline, all the marines were attacking me and a couple of sgs and the marines were just droping like flys any marine that was standing still might have been declared dead there and then. They might have had no upgrades and i think they probably didnt, but it happened every single game on every server i played
well to answer those questions.
Was the marine hurt?
No i was not hurt, i came fresh from the main base.
Was his armor upgraded?
Yes, lvl2.
Were his weapons upgraded or powerful enough to deter the fade from a full on assault?
Yes, lvl3 with a glauncher. although hmg lvl3 still takes some time to kill a fade now.
Did the fade have adrenaline? If so, what level?
It didnt matter, he could have had full energy when comming to attack which gives him 4 acidrockets which now fire really fast.
Did it have carapace? If so, what level?
It didnt matter.
Was it being healed by a nearby health chamber?
It didnt matter.
Was it cloaked, enabling it to score a full-on hit from point blank range?
He attacked from a medium distance he may have had cloak but again it didnt matter.
Although i could name alot of other times like having a hmg but the speed you die means you dont really have time to kill a fade with or without carapace or a defense chamber nearby.
why dont we play a 4v4 game ill go aliens along with 3 others we will allow you to get lvl3 armour and lvl3 weapon upgrade and we can get 2hives and 2 lvl3 upgrades. So do you think your team of 3 fully upgraded marines can take on 4 semi upgraded fades? or we could have it so we have 3 marines attacking 3 fades.
I played in a couple of excellent games last night as marines, and yes there was an endless stream of fades. There rockets really do lots of splash damage. A fade strafing back and forth around a corner can pretty easily take even a Heavy Armor marine (and all his lightly armored brothers), or at least force him to retreat. And when there are three fades attacking at different areas, it becomes a little overwhelming getting heavies around to stop them.
However, two of our marine games were wins. The last being an excellent battle that even the aliens didn't mind losing. And this was on a server with random pub Marines vs a whole clan of Aliens. We had an outstanding commander, and kept pushing the Aliens back the entire game. So obviously the Fades were not extremely overpowered. Of course, this was on Caged, which I consider to be one of the hardest maps for Hive defense. But that is another thread. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
YOU MUST WELD IT TO GET THE FULL BENEFIT!
When your commander me gets you better armor from Arms Lab, have him drop a welder and one guy weld all the marines. It will boost your armor back up. Ditto for HA. Also, having a welder marine be part of your squad can be a CRUCIAL tactic. With your commander dropping health and your welder repairing armor, you can survive several fights to reach a hive and get there as fresh as a daisy.
Welder = life.
On the one side we have a Marine with heavy machine gun and heavy armor and all upgrades that costs 50 rp to spawn. On the other side we have a fade with all upgrades which costs 50 rp to spawn (AND a lot of time to evolve AND you have to hold all three hives).
Now the marine has 290 armor points, gets only 5% dmg and has 100 health.
The Fade has somewhere between 175 and 200 armor points (dont know how much it is with carapace now), gets 40% dmg and has 125 health.
So this point very obviously goes to marines.
Marines do 23 dmg per bullet, have incredible rate of fire (much higher than 3 rounds per second) and bullet speed is invinite.
Fades do 60 dmg per rocket, fire one rocket per second and rocket speed is slow.
So again, one big point for the marines. They do more damage per time frame and their weapon is easier to aim because of the higher rof and bullet speed.
So marines can take more damage, can deal more damage and are easier to use and you still whine? Dont know what stuff you smoke but it must be pretty good.
There is one thing in the game which is unbalancing though. That are the siege guns. They have rediculous range. Range should be reduced and you should only be able to build one inside this range.
lemon juice?!
bile bombs still need more tweaking but hey... were only scared pussycats.
Fade Life: 200
Armor: 125/150 (Carapace)
lvl 0: 30% absorb
lvl 1: 40% absorb
lvl 2: 50% absorb
lvl 3: 60% absorb
(The absorb is taken from manual, I'm pretty sure it wasn't changed).
Also, I'm not particularly worried about the acid rocket as a marine, even in 1.01. What I'm worried about are the *good* fades who blink in and slash you to shreds. I've dropped 3 marines in Light with LMGs by doing this, and I've seen someone drop 3 HA/HMG marines in 1.00 (pre-patch). I mostly happen to be a longer range fighter myself against groups, but the claws are more effective in a good players hands.
Right now, I think the problem is many of marines can't expand. We played a number of games on Eclipse last night, and the marines got kicked out of every single expansion they took. I also don't think marines are being commanded as well as they could be, in most games. I'd like to see more marines set up a first exp in an alien hive, rather than a rez node with 2 ways + a vent into it, as I've seen this work the few times it was used. Also, even 2 fades = 6 marines, according to coil's logic. Throw in a skulk or 2, and the battle is over, barring HMG/HA combat.
I want to see how this patch plays for a while longer before I call for immediate change though.
Also, a GL against a fade = bad idea. You'll likely get mugged up close, where the nades won't help you very much. And pistol whipping a fade....
Edit: I happen to be an alien player, by choice, and have been since I started playing NS (pre-patch and all <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->).
Get used to it.
You are right, i took armor points and hit points from update text which was wrong. It must have been 150 armor points, getting 40% dmg and 200 hp. But this still means a marine can take much more beating.
After taking 290 dmg a marine is down to 0 armor points and 85 hp while a fade is down to 0 armor and 0 hp (which means dead).
So nothing changed. You spend the same rp for more defense, more and easier to use offense and you do not have to spend a lot of time evolving which not only costs you time but leaves you very vulnerable.
Get used to it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think everyone of you should review and re-read this post a hundred times. GG stormeh.
Well can i ask, who found that acidrocket was weak against marines on v1? I think some found it was hard to use but just think of the rocket launcher in TFC using it in same way as that, its just a rocketlauncher but with acid and not explosives.
I play aliens mostly and i have had a few n00bs going wtf cos they died so quick from me acid rocketing them. The only thing that should be able to devistate marines in large numbers is onos, it does that but it can so easily be done with fade. Once aliens have got 2 hives i can get 30 kills so easily now as marines are like flies, there no need for teleport and slash its easyer to just rocket em a few times.