What Makes The Fade Hard To Play?
Savant
Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10289Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-11-30 Member: 10289Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">Good fades need not reply... :-)</div> OK folks, as the topic suggests, I want to get input on what people feel makes the fade a hard class to play.
If you don't think the fade is hard to play, that's cool, but I would ask that you NOT post in this thread please. I would also ask that people NOT post comments like "people just need to practise" since that is not what this thread is about either. I'm specifically looking to find what people believe makes the fade a hard class to play. That's all.
As for suggestions, I'd prefer if people didn't get into that. Suggestions usually take a thread off course, and I want to get a better picture of what people think makes the fade hard to play.
So post with your personal experience playing fade, or even your observations of others based on how you have killed fades that played poorly. I hope to use this information to assist in the other thread we have going discussing mid-game balance, but I feel that different people feel the fade has different problems. So before continuing I want to get a better idea of exactly what people feel the problems with the fade are.
I appreciate your responses.
Regards,
Savant
If you don't think the fade is hard to play, that's cool, but I would ask that you NOT post in this thread please. I would also ask that people NOT post comments like "people just need to practise" since that is not what this thread is about either. I'm specifically looking to find what people believe makes the fade a hard class to play. That's all.
As for suggestions, I'd prefer if people didn't get into that. Suggestions usually take a thread off course, and I want to get a better picture of what people think makes the fade hard to play.
So post with your personal experience playing fade, or even your observations of others based on how you have killed fades that played poorly. I hope to use this information to assist in the other thread we have going discussing mid-game balance, but I feel that different people feel the fade has different problems. So before continuing I want to get a better idea of exactly what people feel the problems with the fade are.
I appreciate your responses.
Regards,
Savant
Comments
I think its hard for beginners because they dont realize how fragile fades are. Most of them don't use blink and walk into combat. I think this is why we see so many walker fades in CO_ maps.
Finally, I'd like to point out the res investment. Fades cost a ton of res, and if someone new wants to try out fading they will probobly do it in a CO_ map. Here they are likely to use a ton of upgrades which makes fading much easier. When they move into NS_ maps they are going to be severly handicapped, often having to deal with no chambers (in pubs this happens often) and probobly one hive.
It's probobly discouraging for beginners to get yelled at when they lose 50 res in an ns game. This contributes to them either, going back to CO or not playing fades at all.
hi b1
but that really does come down to practice?!
I MEAN Uhh im no newbiefade! in fact i'm VERY GOod but im posting here anyway!!!!
Fades are a large investment in res, heck, anything in considering how slow the res system can be. That right there keeps many players from fading since it is a HUGE loss for the team if a fade dies. What I think though is that in pubs, people should allow people who haven't faded before to fade with someone whos good at it so they can see how it's done.
Fades also have the patrol the ENTIRE map essentially. That's a bit area to cover for someone who hasn't gotten much experience with the fade and also, makes knowing the maps inside and out almost a requirement. I personally only prefer to fade on maps such as eclipse, tanith and nothing as well as veil sometimes. I know the main routes marines usually travel, the choke points and areas it's easy to run to if you're taking a beating. Some maps, it IS difficult for even a good fade to play them. The fade requires an unbelievable amount of room to maneuver properly. At times, you may find yourself stuck on walls and other map details while trying to escape, and that's the place where most fades die usually since it's that moment that allows someone to empty thier pistol into you.
Blink/swipe combo, it's hard to get down at times. A fade can at times blink in and not get a swipe off because they either take too much damage or didn't change attacks soon enough. When it comes to combat as a fade, it is hit and run pretty much all the time. But knowing how to dance around a marine helps too. But there is a certain amount of damage you can take before you have to leave. It's not a known value, just an instinct that I need to leave now, I'm getting shreded. And you HAVE to have nearly all of your armor before you enter a conflict. Quite literally, a dozen points of armor can be what stands between you running to heal and respawning with teeth around your screen. The fade is a rather precise class that isn't easy on mistakes. But a good fade can hold off entire squads of heavy armor marines and make marines feel like they've already lost the game. It just takes a lot of practice, more skill and a pinch of luck to pull one off well. When someone learns to be a good fade on a public server, they'll find that they will most of the time win the game for them.
A skill that I've learned is not bunnyhopping fade to retain speed, but tap blink, and every time you hit the ground, blink again. This way, fade doesn't require the extra hassle of bunnyhopping, also. This usually keeps my energy about full, too.
BTW, even though I'm a (pretty) skilled fade, I think I followed most of this thread's guidelines.
I only fade in CO or in NS when we're already winning (3rd hive). I usually put up hive, build chambers and rts, or lame up a hive needing defense. I find I'm becoming better at fading through CO even though I take lots of upgrades. However, I don't find myself going fade at the 4:00 mark in NS anytime soon because I'll probably die.
and you cant really say shotguns or hmgs are the reason fades are hard to play. shotguns and hmgs are needed by the marine team because the fades are usually slaughtering the entire marine team and they need to take them down
If you know what you're up against and where the enemy is (Scent of Fear), then you'll always know what to do. However, you could always get another, better upgrade (Focus) to perform hit and runs, but that makes Fading somewhat more difficult due to you being more reliant on yourself to perform a blink in and out to figure out what you're up against.
Also, getting used to crouching while blinking since most Fades do it anyway -- Even though some argue that this takes advantage of the bad hitboxes.
Then its applying that knowledge to using the fade. Because initialy using the abilities is a difficult thing, so then you have to go and search through a few faqs/manuals on how to be a better fade. There is so much stress as the resource investment, the learning curve, the time it takes to increase your skills that it forshadows any new fade developments.
A fade needs a huge amount of situational awareness to survive. If they make one mistake in their escape route, their energy left, their range to the marine, their armor/health level, their attack route, their currently chosen attack ability, their target groupings, even the weapons of the marines they're going against they're minced.
If they can constantly maintain all of those, they're a mincer.
Skulks can survive without energy. Gorges don't care what weapons the marine has, since they're all just as deadly. Lerks tend not to worry about armor and health terribly because if they're getting hit, they need to leave, period. Onos doesn't care about the attack route, since it's just as easy to smash the crap in the way as go around it.
Fade needs all of it, and what's more needs to do all of it without a mistake, since any mistake will at best mean no effect on the marines and very likely prove fatal to the fade as well. Given the resource cost, if you don't do it all right the first time, you likely won't get a second chance.
Part of this comes from having to use blink to get into combat range and having to also use it to escape/survive. They don't have the HP for long engagements, and don't have the speed for short ones unless they have blink.
On top of all this, the fade also needs the right config -- or at least a config that isn't the default. This can also be an issue for some people who aren't playing on their own computers.
A 0 hive skulk, gorge, onos, or lerk can still kill a marine if PoD doesn't get them.
A 0 hive fade is a dead fade. I think that's something worth thinking about.
Regards,
Savant
Feel free to try hitting rines in a turreted MS on Tanith, for instance. Its block city. You need xeno skulks to do anything in the endgame.
At 50 res a shot its pricy, blink for nubs is a one way ticket to hitting a wall, and should you die as a fade your entire team will cut you to ribbons.
Combine that with the fact that midgame a fade is ESSENTIAL, and you see all the pressures piled onto a pubber fade.
On a side note, this is largely covered by Grendel's thread.
Personally, I find SGs and HMGs an annoyance at the best when I'm a fade. Mainly because I play in public games, where most people couldn't hit the broadside of a barn *from the inside*. Every now and again, you will get a player, or even a group of players, that can actually shoot well, or just spray you with enough lead to kill just about everything they are looking at. Thankfully, they are quite rare (in my experience)
A skill that I've learned is not bunnyhopping fade to retain speed, but tap blink, and every time you hit the ground, blink again. This way, fade doesn't require the extra hassle of bunnyhopping, also. This usually keeps my energy about full, too.
BTW, even though I'm a (pretty) skilled fade, I think I followed most of this thread's guidelines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
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if the hitboxes are good, crouching will still be done, and for good reason
play non HL games, a lot of them are much faster paced
also sleep. need to be able to see and imagine, need to be able to think flexibly and fast
An example is to blink with a slight angle upwards in the air, so the friction of the floor doesn't slow you down that fast (if you're blinking facing the ground).
And since you can't get a 0 degree angle anyway, (no E-Protractor), you might as well blink slightly up to maximize your energy.
Another hard part of fading is what happens when you're against two marines that can dodge a bit. Blinking straight up to one marine, having him sidestep and glide jump around you, and you just walking, turning in circles, swiping blindly won't work. When you blink in, you have to remember that the opponent is moving as well, so anticipation of his movements is key. And after your first blink, if you blink past him, remember which way he was moving when you swiped him, or if you can't, blink back, get some breathing distance, and try again.
A very simple evasive trick with fade is to blink upwards. It's harder to hit something in the air than it is on the ground, mainly because the marine will repeatedly adjust his/her aim to hit you.
Finally, the fade must learn when to run. And how to run as well, when to turn into a corner and such.
I'm no mad haxor fade, but doing the above has really improved myself as fade.
as others have said the fade has to have a great sence of awareness, they have to know whats going on around them without actually seeing it, so they can make a quick escape.
while your thinking of the above, its also time consuming to learn to blink/swipe/blink/meta as quickly as possible, while moving, turning and thinking at the same time.
If you can easily kill Marines with Shotguns and HMGs as a puny little leaping Skulk, surely you'll have a chance as a Fade that can take 6 times the damage.
Regards,
Savant
Other times its just controling blink. Often its difficult for some players to blink in directally to where they need to be, and they miss that sweet spot, resulting in either a frantic scramble towards the door with an innaccurate blink in the panic, or a scramble towards the enemy, where you are a slow moving target.
Thats basically all I can see.