ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Teufel Eldritch+Mar 22 2005, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teufel Eldritch @ Mar 22 2005, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Marines would win every single game if they did one thing... use teamwork. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Then how come ew're seeing aliens ties just about everywhere in the clan scene? Clans have very good teamwork, yet marines are getting slaughtered.
<!--QuoteBegin-Church+Mar 22 2005, 07:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Mar 22 2005, 07:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Teufel Eldritch+Mar 22 2005, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teufel Eldritch @ Mar 22 2005, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Marines would win every single game if they did one thing... use teamwork. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then how come ew're seeing aliens ties just about everywhere in the clan scene? Clans have very good teamwork, yet marines are getting slaughtered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Because clanners are all stupid rambos, obviously
<!--QuoteBegin-Teufel Eldritch+Mar 22 2005, 12:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teufel Eldritch @ Mar 22 2005, 12:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "<i>the same applies to aliens. but what if both use it?</i> Marines would still win. That's what would happen. I also should have mentioned along with teamwork they need a competent(not necessarily leet) Comm.
"<i>so that's what I've been doing wrong! Oh man, thanks a lot.</i>" No prob. Glad I could have been some help. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are wroooooooooonnnngnggggg!!!!!!1
<!--QuoteBegin-Isamil+Mar 21 2005, 02:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Isamil @ Mar 21 2005, 02:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nubs always stack marines, so the good players have to alien. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i notice quite the opposite on most pubs.
Food for thought: If you keep on repeating bad preconceptions about your playing demographic, some might actually take you serious.
My view on the current situation is that 3.0final has brought a number of significant improvements in general gameplay, but that we have oversteered somewhat, which leads to the problems encountered by the competitive scene. Specifically, I (and to emphasize, this is my personal opinion, the dev team has yet to come to a complete consensus here) see shortcomings in early res maintainance, PG-reliant strategies, and siege scenarios. What now remains is to assess how far to steer back.
By the way, please stop throwing teamwork around as the universal remedy. If you don't use teamwork, you are very likely to lose, but if you use teamwork, you'll still need a good strategy to win. "We worked together and still lost!" does not mean that the game is broken.
<!--QuoteBegin-UKchaos+Mar 22 2005, 03:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Mar 22 2005, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If neither team uses teamwork, aliens win by default 99% of the time. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 85% of statistics are made up on the spot.
NEO_PhyteWe need shirtgons!Join Date: 2003-12-16Member: 24453Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Mar 22 2005, 02:46 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Mar 22 2005, 02:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-UKchaos+Mar 22 2005, 03:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Mar 22 2005, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If neither team uses teamwork, aliens win by default 99% of the time. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 85% of statistics are made up on the spot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> and the remaining 43% have no evidence backing them up
I wonder, why the hell the aliens and marines were designed so different, if there must be balance. Screw the flipping balance and go away if you don't like, flipping noob or whatever I should call you.
I've recently had a godlike steak (getting 80-2 regular aliens, 60-5 Marines), which promptly ended when I went back to school and stopped getting good sleep (not only do I have to leave at 6:30, I lose sleep worrying about the damn place). This rapid transition from killer to fodder forced me to realize that it is true that teamwork will not win games. For example, in one game on ns_veil, we the Marines took the Sub-Sector 5B Hive using great coordination and completely covering each other, and then we held the Hive... and held it... and held it until a Fade came by and killed half of us. Then we (I should say 'the team' because I kept saying "LISTEN TO THE COMM!") realized that we had been sitting in Sub-Sector killing unwary Skulks for 10 minutes and we barely had any tech because no one would move to get res. That was one game when the commander truly couldn't be blamed.
I think the most productive player was a rambo on the other side of the map that repeatedly took down the alien node at Emergency Nozzle as they rebuilt it.
<!--QuoteBegin-UKchaos+Mar 22 2005, 04:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UKchaos @ Mar 22 2005, 04:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 99% is an expression, not a statistic.
They win most games, from my experience. If you want to refute that, go ahead. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, at least the game has been upgraded to such game thanks to you, winers.
And at least, then there is a reason to make that hive-spawn-egg thingie true, and no upgrading outside spawn - just like marines (balance, eh). At least it will change the game alot, people will be much more strategic, and thats what NS was meant to be.
And I wonder, if aliens win most of the games, then why the **** people want more speed to the aliens? Or I should make my dream true, by start making ns_tunnels map.
<!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wonder, why the hell the aliens and marines were designed so different, if there must be balance. Screw the flipping balance and go away if you don't like, flipping noob or whatever I should call you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced?
NEO_PhyteWe need shirtgons!Join Date: 2003-12-16Member: 24453Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Mar 22 2005, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Mar 22 2005, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wonder, why the hell the aliens and marines were designed so different, if there must be balance. Screw the flipping balance and go away if you don't like, flipping noob or whatever I should call you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> since when is a clan scene mandatory?
<!--QuoteBegin-NEO Phyte+Mar 22 2005, 05:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NEO Phyte @ Mar 22 2005, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Mar 22 2005, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Mar 22 2005, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wonder, why the hell the aliens and marines were designed so different, if there must be balance. Screw the flipping balance and go away if you don't like, flipping noob or whatever I should call you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> since when is a clan scene mandatory? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Keyser+Mar 21 2005, 04:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Keyser @ Mar 21 2005, 04:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Church+Mar 21 2005, 03:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Church @ Mar 21 2005, 03:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I actually kinda want to reverse the whole b5 timeline of: Strong marines early on, weak marines later on.
Now, with alien getting the upper hand in the beginning, the marines should have the upper hand as time goes on. It should be: Alien early game very very strong, and marine midgame stronger than alien midgame. Right now only the former is true. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uh, the goal is to have balance the whole game, instead of hoping the imbalances throughout the game cancel out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Is it? I haven't spoken with the devs myself, so I can't speak with such authority, but hey, they must come to you fairly often for you to be so sure. So whatever you say.
Personally, I'd like to see the game balanced, but marines feeling the pressure early, aliens feeling it midgame, and both sides evening out at the end-game.
<!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Mar 22 2005, 05:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Mar 22 2005, 05:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because playing a game where one side always wins will get boring? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And who asked to change NS earlier versions to "better" later version? People, people like you, and after, they are wining about that. Eat your own mess now.
It is getting very difficult for me to stay polite in here...
This game was not designed for you and only you. Whether you like to play one or ten hours a day, whether you like it for the social aspect, the strategic element, the quirky movement, the action, the competition, the large maps or the sound of Lani Minella's voice, your preference is not the sole center of our attention. We are trying to create a game for as many people as possible here. This involves making compromises. Not always something we like to do, but it's necessary.
Bluntly put, if you think that your style of playing is the only one that matters and that it should be supported to the exclusion of all else, your feedback is pretty much worthless to us. If you go on to belittle those of other persuasion, I honestly just stop caring about your opinion. And if you think that screaming really loud for a long time will change that... There is a world full of evil and suffering out there, a world of which I hope our game offers some people a short break. If you are about to start a crusade about detail changes to this game, ask yourself whether there is not some project out there that this energy could be spent more productively on.
<!--QuoteBegin-NEO Phyte+Mar 22 2005, 05:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NEO Phyte @ Mar 22 2005, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Mar 22 2005, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Mar 22 2005, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wonder, why the hell the aliens and marines were designed so different, if there must be balance. Screw the flipping balance and go away if you don't like, flipping noob or whatever I should call you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> since when is a clan scene mandatory? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because it would be a tragedy to deny the top players the opportunity to test their skills against each other. What kind of game would NS be if players played for a while, became better than any other casual pubber, but could advance no farther than that? It would be frustrating, and those players would undoubtedly leave. It's already started to happen. And while the game could survive with just average players playing in pubs, I'm quite certain no dev team would be content knowing that their game is hostile towards elite players. Like Nem0 said, the best games cater to all play styles and abilities as best they can.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
edited March 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Mar 22 2005, 06:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Mar 22 2005, 06:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Mar 22 2005, 05:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Mar 22 2005, 05:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because playing a game where one side always wins will get boring? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And who asked to change NS earlier versions to "better" later version? People, people like you, and after, they are wining about that. Eat your own mess now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And exactly what do you mean by that? oh btw there is no such word as "wining."
<!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Mar 22 2005, 06:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Mar 22 2005, 06:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-tjosan+Mar 22 2005, 05:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tjosan @ Mar 22 2005, 05:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Because playing a game where one side always wins will get boring? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And who asked to change NS earlier versions to "better" later version? People, people like you, and after, they are wining about that. Eat your own mess now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What, you don't think the devs would continue updating the game if we didn't hound them every waking moment?
This topic has gotten so ridiculously out of hand, and I'm with Nem0 when I say it really is getting hard to stay polite.
I believe Nem0 said it best in explaining everything. You cannot make a game that is so PERFECTLY balanced, because there will ALWAYS be someone, somewhere that will not like the gameplay or some other aspect. It makes me pretty mad to see people with such an over-inflated ego waltz on over the an online message board and proceed to complain about how TERRIBLE this FREE mod for a CHEAP game is.
[sarcasm] God damn you devs! How DARE you make such a TERRIBLE MOD for FREE?! LET'S GET TO WORK HERE, HONESTLY WHAT ARE YOU THINKING [/sarcasm].
That's the feeling I get from some people here, minus the sarcasm. I've been playing NS since it first came out, and watched decisions be made that I definitely didn't agree with--but someone, somewhere believed it was a good one, and I will respect that.
I think many people in this community need to realize several things. If you want respect (in general), don't be an asshat--give respect, get respect. The dev team does this mod for free and for their own enjoyment (and to become more skilled programmers, artists, etc.).
Balance will always be an issue with this game--it's not just two sides with pretty equal weapons and characters. It's two ENTIRELY different races with entirely different objectives, goals, and weapons. That in mind, I challenge ANYONE here to create a mod as complex as this and balance it perfectly for clan and pub play. Big cookie for anyone who can do that.
Until then, stop the flaming, stop the childish behavior, grow up a little, and post some thought-out and insightful. I'm sure the developers will listen if you whine, complain, and just scream over and over what you don't like.
<!--QuoteBegin-Isamil+Mar 21 2005, 08:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Isamil @ Mar 21 2005, 08:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Nubs always stack marines, so the good players have to alien. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That is very incorrect, the good players <i>allways</i> stacks marines.
GrendelAll that is fear...Join Date: 2002-07-19Member: 970Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester
<!--QuoteBegin-Router Box+Mar 22 2005, 09:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Router Box @ Mar 22 2005, 09:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yay, its good to know the dev's are seeing the right things. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Quoted for LOL.
<!--QuoteBegin-Nemesis Zero+Mar 22 2005, 02:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Mar 22 2005, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Specifically, I (and to emphasize, this is my personal opinion, the dev team has yet to come to a complete consensus here) see shortcomings in early res maintainance, PG-reliant strategies, and siege scenarios. What now remains is to assess how far to steer back. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> isnt that pretty much everything the marines can do :D
<!--QuoteBegin-NEO Phyte+Mar 22 2005, 05:31 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NEO Phyte @ Mar 22 2005, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Mar 22 2005, 04:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Mar 22 2005, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-kabuum+Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kabuum @ Mar 22 2005, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wonder, why the hell the aliens and marines were designed so different, if there must be balance. Screw the flipping balance and go away if you don't like, flipping noob or whatever I should call you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> since when is a clan scene mandatory? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A clan scene isn't manditory per say, although a healthy clan scene certainly helps from a PR standpoint.
However, dispite a clan scene not being manditory, a multiplayer game without a clan scene is generally not going to be very long lasting, nor incredibly good. If a game is good enough to be worth mastering, then a clan scene will exist for that game. If the clan scene is dispondant or decaying, that is a clear message to a development team that there is something lacking either in the replayability of thier game, or its ability to remain fun for skilled players.
In the NS developers case, Nem0 has pretty much hit the nail on the head with his statement. NS is trying to reach as broad and audiance as possible, so as far as they are concerned, if your idea of a good modification to NS does not account for the ease of play of levels that are different from your own, it is pretty much useless. They will not balance NS at the expense of CO, they will not balance CO at the expense of NS, they will not balance clan play at the expense of pub play, and they will not balance pub play at the expense of clan play. The only gamemodes they will not seek to balance with standard NS gamemodes are those created by third party plugins.
You can argue any idea you want until you are blue in the face, but unless you can come up with a realistic way to balance it for play at all levels of skill and both NS and CO game modes, it never has a chance of being implimented.
Comments
Then how come ew're seeing aliens ties just about everywhere in the clan scene? Clans have very good teamwork, yet marines are getting slaughtered.
Then how come ew're seeing aliens ties just about everywhere in the clan scene? Clans have very good teamwork, yet marines are getting slaughtered. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because clanners are all stupid rambos, obviously
Marines would still win. That's what would happen. I also should have mentioned along with teamwork they need a competent(not necessarily leet) Comm.
"<i>so that's what I've been doing wrong! Oh man, thanks a lot.</i>"
No prob. Glad I could have been some help. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are wroooooooooonnnngnggggg!!!!!!1
i notice quite the opposite on most pubs.
My view on the current situation is that 3.0final has brought a number of significant improvements in general gameplay, but that we have oversteered somewhat, which leads to the problems encountered by the competitive scene. Specifically, I (and to emphasize, this is my personal opinion, the dev team has yet to come to a complete consensus here) see shortcomings in early res maintainance, PG-reliant strategies, and siege scenarios. What now remains is to assess how far to steer back.
By the way, please stop throwing teamwork around as the universal remedy. If you don't use teamwork, you are very likely to lose, but if you use teamwork, you'll still need a good strategy to win. "We worked together and still lost!" does not mean that the game is broken.
85% of statistics are made up on the spot.
85% of statistics are made up on the spot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
and the remaining 43% have no evidence backing them up
They win most games, from my experience. If you want to refute that, go ahead.
I think the most productive player was a rambo on the other side of the map that repeatedly took down the alien node at Emergency Nozzle as they rebuilt it.
They win most games, from my experience. If you want to refute that, go ahead. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, at least the game has been upgraded to such game thanks to you, winers.
And at least, then there is a reason to make that hive-spawn-egg thingie true, and no upgrading outside spawn - just like marines (balance, eh).
At least it will change the game alot, people will be much more strategic, and thats what NS was meant to be.
And I wonder, if aliens win most of the games, then why the **** people want more speed to the aliens?
Or I should make my dream true, by start making ns_tunnels map.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced?
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
since when is a clan scene mandatory?
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
since when is a clan scene mandatory? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now, with alien getting the upper hand in the beginning, the marines should have the upper hand as time goes on. It should be: Alien early game very very strong, and marine midgame stronger than alien midgame. Right now only the former is true. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, the goal is to have balance the whole game, instead of hoping the imbalances throughout the game cancel out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it? I haven't spoken with the devs myself, so I can't speak with such authority, but hey, they must come to you fairly often for you to be so sure. So whatever you say.
Personally, I'd like to see the game balanced, but marines feeling the pressure early, aliens feeling it midgame, and both sides evening out at the end-game.
And who asked to change NS earlier versions to "better" later version? People, people like you, and after, they are wining about that. Eat your own mess now.
This game was not designed for you and only you. Whether you like to play one or ten hours a day, whether you like it for the social aspect, the strategic element, the quirky movement, the action, the competition, the large maps or the sound of Lani Minella's voice, your preference is not the sole center of our attention. We are trying to create a game for as many people as possible here. This involves making compromises. Not always something we like to do, but it's necessary.
Bluntly put, if you think that your style of playing is the only one that matters and that it should be supported to the exclusion of all else, your feedback is pretty much worthless to us.
If you go on to belittle those of other persuasion, I honestly just stop caring about your opinion.
And if you think that screaming really loud for a long time will change that... There is a world full of evil and suffering out there, a world of which I hope our game offers some people a short break. If you are about to start a crusade about detail changes to this game, ask yourself whether there is not some project out there that this energy could be spent more productively on.
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Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
since when is a clan scene mandatory? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it would be a tragedy to deny the top players the opportunity to test their skills against each other. What kind of game would NS be if players played for a while, became better than any other casual pubber, but could advance no farther than that? It would be frustrating, and those players would undoubtedly leave. It's already started to happen. And while the game could survive with just average players playing in pubs, I'm quite certain no dev team would be content knowing that their game is hostile towards elite players. Like Nem0 said, the best games cater to all play styles and abilities as best they can.
And who asked to change NS earlier versions to "better" later version? People, people like you, and after, they are wining about that. Eat your own mess now. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And exactly what do you mean by that? oh btw there is no such word as "wining."
And who asked to change NS earlier versions to "better" later version? People, people like you, and after, they are wining about that. Eat your own mess now. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What, you don't think the devs would continue updating the game if we didn't hound them every waking moment?
I believe Nem0 said it best in explaining everything. You cannot make a game that is so PERFECTLY balanced, because there will ALWAYS be someone, somewhere that will not like the gameplay or some other aspect. It makes me pretty mad to see people with such an over-inflated ego waltz on over the an online message board and proceed to complain about how TERRIBLE this FREE mod for a CHEAP game is.
[sarcasm] God damn you devs! How DARE you make such a TERRIBLE MOD for FREE?! LET'S GET TO WORK HERE, HONESTLY WHAT ARE YOU THINKING [/sarcasm].
That's the feeling I get from some people here, minus the sarcasm. I've been playing NS since it first came out, and watched decisions be made that I definitely didn't agree with--but someone, somewhere believed it was a good one, and I will respect that.
I think many people in this community need to realize several things. If you want respect (in general), don't be an asshat--give respect, get respect. The dev team does this mod for free and for their own enjoyment (and to become more skilled programmers, artists, etc.).
Balance will always be an issue with this game--it's not just two sides with pretty equal weapons and characters. It's two ENTIRELY different races with entirely different objectives, goals, and weapons. That in mind, I challenge ANYONE here to create a mod as complex as this and balance it perfectly for clan and pub play. Big cookie for anyone who can do that.
Until then, stop the flaming, stop the childish behavior, grow up a little, and post some thought-out and insightful. I'm sure the developers will listen if you whine, complain, and just scream over and over what you don't like.
That is very incorrect, the good players <i>allways</i> stacks marines.
Quoted for LOL.
isnt that pretty much everything the marines can do :D
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Because a clan scene is absolutely impossible if the game isn't balanced? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
since when is a clan scene mandatory? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A clan scene isn't manditory per say, although a healthy clan scene certainly helps from a PR standpoint.
However, dispite a clan scene not being manditory, a multiplayer game without a clan scene is generally not going to be very long lasting, nor incredibly good. If a game is good enough to be worth mastering, then a clan scene will exist for that game. If the clan scene is dispondant or decaying, that is a clear message to a development team that there is something lacking either in the replayability of thier game, or its ability to remain fun for skilled players.
In the NS developers case, Nem0 has pretty much hit the nail on the head with his statement. NS is trying to reach as broad and audiance as possible, so as far as they are concerned, if your idea of a good modification to NS does not account for the ease of play of levels that are different from your own, it is pretty much useless. They will not balance NS at the expense of CO, they will not balance CO at the expense of NS, they will not balance clan play at the expense of pub play, and they will not balance pub play at the expense of clan play. The only gamemodes they will not seek to balance with standard NS gamemodes are those created by third party plugins.
You can argue any idea you want until you are blue in the face, but unless you can come up with a realistic way to balance it for play at all levels of skill and both NS and CO game modes, it never has a chance of being implimented.