A Theory On Hitbox Issues

Fin · March 2005

It has something to do with marine recoil from bite and how lag compensation handles the bullets which are moved because of it. Skulks used to not reach marines, now that they can the bad melee netcode shows itself. Cele+cara+bhop skulk can take on a marine in a hallway only and only because it can now reach him and exploit the horrible melee lag compensation.

Possible solution: You can fix this issue by removing recoil from a skulk's bite. Its just like the knife/bite issue last beta. Were if the marine knifed at the same time as the skulk bit yet had a lower ping his knife would register but the skulk's bite would not. Remove recoil and cara/cele really won't make much difference.

After all, all you did was change the life of a skulk from 9 to 13 bullets(cara). Its that the skulks can now reach the marines at many ranges that makes the difference.

Yes dont lock this its not a rant but a discussion if others feel that this might be the issue.

Traken · March 2005

Sounds good to me. Only problem I can forsee is marines getting killed when they get hit once.

Personally I think if you are bit once, you deserve to die. Removing knockback might also help marines dodge those pesky skulks. By doing that, you can no longer be pushed into the ground, therefore rendering you immobile for .5 of a secound (in which you die).

I say do it!

And how does <b>biting</b> someone make them fly <b>away</b>? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' />

theclam · March 2005

These sort of ping issues work the exact same way in TFC or CS or any other HL mod. There's little that can be done. I don't see what's specifically bad about the melee netcode that's different than any other netcode (I suspect that melee netcode is the exact same thing as ranged netcode).

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Cele+cara+bhop skulk can take on a marine in a hallway only and only because it can now reach him and exploit the horrible melee lag compensation.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Skulks are supposed to die to marines in a hallway, until you at least get leap. That's the way the game works.

TOmekki · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Cele+cara+bhop skulk can take on a marine in a hallway only and only because it can now reach him and exploit the horrible melee lag compensation.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Skulks are supposed to die to marines in a hallway, until you at least get leap. That's the way the game works.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' />

c4t · March 2005

no knockback would be rediculously overpowered for aliens. trust me.

theclam · March 2005

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Mar 14 2005, 02:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 14 2005, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Cele+cara+bhop skulk can take on a marine in a hallway only and only because it can now reach him and exploit the horrible melee lag compensation.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
Skulks are supposed to die to marines in a hallway, until you at least get leap. That's the way the game works. </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' />  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Marines have the advantage in hallways, because they have ranged weapons. Aliens have the advantage in ambushes and cramped areas, because they are fast, small, and powerful. A marine who knows how to aim will beat a skulk in a hallway, unless the skulk has some way of closing the distance very quickly (leap), has buddies around, or ambushed the marine.

Dr_aaagh · March 2005

erm - knockback gives a great indication when a silent skulk is biting u from behind.
Removing it would be bad.

lagger · March 2005

Not only would someone needs a little more proff then your opinion before changing this, the idea seems flawed. You are taking knockback out to give back marines some advantage? Yet taking it out is a HUGE advantage for the aliens..... I give this a vote of no.

Talesin · March 2005

As a note, saying 'don't lock this' makes a mod/admin more likely to lock it, given that the poster knows that he's either running or has stepped over the line. This post is on the edge.

Also, pulling knockback out would raze the Marines to the ground.

The hitbox code was reverted to B5 standard. It is being double-checked at the moment, but it is very likely that there is simply psychosomatism factoring in.

Anderval · March 2005

You can shoot between the legs of a 3.0f onos now, something that you couldn't do with the b5 hitboxes, but could with the b6 ones, so something has definately changed or not been reverted.

also: putting things like this

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>From what I have heard the hitboxes are similar but have changed slightly, but I have had several cases where I have been an alien and have heard the bullets hit, you know that sound it makes, but I take no damage. Just wish I had been recording a demo of one case today where I had 5 hp and heard nearly 10 bullets hit me and I took no damage and killed the marine.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>

which sound very similar to the bugs experienced by consties and pts in the beta down to psychosomatic responses to a new version and then locking the thread preventing useful discussion isn't great.

Align · March 2005

<span style='color:white'>Snip.</span>

Knockback was removed from skulk bite at one point. It was pretty much immediately put back in, because it's incredibly easy to bite something twice when the marine doesn't change direction the very moment you bite.

Delphi · March 2005

Everything I wanted to say was already said in this thread. Hitbox code from B5 to v3 was not changed (It was, but was reverted, as stated) and removing knockback from skulkbite is an ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE idea.

More then likely, the cause is the fact that you have to shoot the skulk with an extra bullet now (Innate regen), and thus the n00bcaek marines blame it on lag, hitboxes, or both.

Nemesis_Zero · March 2005

If you are missing your post from this thread, it's because you haven't read the rules.

Anyway, Fin, while the knockback you mention has likely got nothing to do with the problem, you are pretty close to what we assume might be responsible for the remaining hitreg issues: Simple server load. It is true that no multiplayer game played over the web will ever reach perfect hit registration thanks to lag issues, but the objectively overly heavy strain NS puts on server CPUs doesn't really help in keeping everyone on the same page.
The problem here is that a fix to this problem would mean a heavy work investment and might conflict with a few other very necessary changes - we're looking into it.

BTW, /me waves at Mart.

A Theory On Hitbox Issues

Comments