New Computer - Help/opinions Needed
Seph_Kimara
Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19359Members
Join Date: 2003-08-10 Member: 19359Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Yeah, one of *those* threads again</div> Well, I'm hoping to get a new computer soon. I'm kind of at the point where I need to - ever since BT changed the broadband packages and ramped my connection speed to 2.2mbps, the modem has been needing to draw extra power (USB powered modem...total power hog) which my crappy 215w supply can't handle. So I've got sluggish response time, and sound which goes garbley/clicks/pops whenever data is transferred. So online gaming is out of the question...which saddens me.
I was thinking of building it myself. It'd be my first time doing so, however. I've read a few guides, so I have the general jist of it. Have a projected budget of around £500, so it may be kind of tight. I'm pretty much going to need everything for it though. Parts from this machine won't be worth salvaging (machine is 4 years old, practically everything is obsolete. Hell, the HDD is only 20gb), so I'll be keeping it intact for use if I have any problems with the new one and need to order new parts/get help to fix it.
The monitor I can obviously still use, though I'd need a "kettle" plug for it. The monitor draws power from the PSU right now (which has an in and an out port on it) I think it'd require a 2amp fuse on it's own (says on the back of the monitor 220-240w~ 2a) but it's the first I've ever heard of a 2a fuse.
Keyboard and mouse aren't needed, as I just bought new ones the other day. It's nice having a soft type keyboard that doesn't rely on a cursor-shift key to access the home pad. I just need to get used to the configuration now. I keep hitting my windows key instead of ctrl because I'm so used to the old key layout <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So now's the part where you guys come in. Given my budget, what should I go for? It's pretty much going to be a gaming platform with a bit of graphic work here and there. I've pretty much decided I'm going ATI and AMD, so I don't really want to see arguments as to otherwise unless there's some pretty big evidence persuading me otherwise. (So no "Get an Nvidia/Pentium cuz ATI/AMD Sux" thanks)
Websites to look for stuff on? I mostly look on www.pricewatch.co.uk. Remember, I'm in the UK, so giving me US/AU sites isn't going to be much use to me.
Should I go for socket 754 or 939? What actual board? Then there's the chipset. BT voyager 100 modems supposedly have some issues with certain VIA chipsets. Which ones however, I've never seen listed. SO i'm wary.
Should I just get a new DSL modem to avoid the issues that are so common with this (BT Voyager 100)/other USB modems? Which one?
Graphics card - which one? months ago, I was thinking of a r9800 pro just to replace the aging r7000 in THIS machine. But now with the x series all out there, I'm not so sure. Obviously, I'd need a PCI-e for most of the X series though, and I haven't seen many sock. 754 mobos that have PCI-e slots.
Processor speed/type - Which should I go for?
RAM? 512mb of PC3200 DDR would be adequate, right? Well, at least considering my budget. Any specific brand (I hear Kingston and Corsair a lot) or isn't it too important?
Case recommendations? Would getting one with some fans installed make much of a difference? I've heard differing opinions on the matter.
HDD - I dunno if I'd need too much storage, really. Having it available would be good, but I don't think I'd need a 200gb drive or anything. But regardless, I'm out for recommendations on this as well. 60-80gb would probably be enough for me.
media drives - I assume a generic DVD rom drive would be fine.
DVDR/W drive - Is there much difference between the standards (+/-)? From waht I've read, there isn't much aside from some compatability issues here and there.
Should I even bother with a floppy drive (considering many computers don't even come with them any more)?
Power supply - is 350-400w adequate? Recommendations (assuming the case doesn't come with one)?
Dedicated soundcard. Worthwhile investment at this stage? Which one?
Any other components I should probably get that aren't listed here? I'm on a lone machine so I don't really need to network or anything.
How can you tell if a PCI card is seated right? I tried installing a USB card some time back, but it never did seem to go in right, and was never detected by windows when I thought it was. Maybe it was just a poorly designed card or something, I don't know. trying to screw it in place properly at the I/O plate was bothersome.
Discharging static - You just need to touch something metallic (like the side of your case) for a few seconds, right?
Any other things I should know before delving in (aside from not using magnetic screwdrivers)? Help is gonna be greatly appreciated on this. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(That's gotta be the most I've written in a long time <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
I was thinking of building it myself. It'd be my first time doing so, however. I've read a few guides, so I have the general jist of it. Have a projected budget of around £500, so it may be kind of tight. I'm pretty much going to need everything for it though. Parts from this machine won't be worth salvaging (machine is 4 years old, practically everything is obsolete. Hell, the HDD is only 20gb), so I'll be keeping it intact for use if I have any problems with the new one and need to order new parts/get help to fix it.
The monitor I can obviously still use, though I'd need a "kettle" plug for it. The monitor draws power from the PSU right now (which has an in and an out port on it) I think it'd require a 2amp fuse on it's own (says on the back of the monitor 220-240w~ 2a) but it's the first I've ever heard of a 2a fuse.
Keyboard and mouse aren't needed, as I just bought new ones the other day. It's nice having a soft type keyboard that doesn't rely on a cursor-shift key to access the home pad. I just need to get used to the configuration now. I keep hitting my windows key instead of ctrl because I'm so used to the old key layout <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
So now's the part where you guys come in. Given my budget, what should I go for? It's pretty much going to be a gaming platform with a bit of graphic work here and there. I've pretty much decided I'm going ATI and AMD, so I don't really want to see arguments as to otherwise unless there's some pretty big evidence persuading me otherwise. (So no "Get an Nvidia/Pentium cuz ATI/AMD Sux" thanks)
Websites to look for stuff on? I mostly look on www.pricewatch.co.uk. Remember, I'm in the UK, so giving me US/AU sites isn't going to be much use to me.
Should I go for socket 754 or 939? What actual board? Then there's the chipset. BT voyager 100 modems supposedly have some issues with certain VIA chipsets. Which ones however, I've never seen listed. SO i'm wary.
Should I just get a new DSL modem to avoid the issues that are so common with this (BT Voyager 100)/other USB modems? Which one?
Graphics card - which one? months ago, I was thinking of a r9800 pro just to replace the aging r7000 in THIS machine. But now with the x series all out there, I'm not so sure. Obviously, I'd need a PCI-e for most of the X series though, and I haven't seen many sock. 754 mobos that have PCI-e slots.
Processor speed/type - Which should I go for?
RAM? 512mb of PC3200 DDR would be adequate, right? Well, at least considering my budget. Any specific brand (I hear Kingston and Corsair a lot) or isn't it too important?
Case recommendations? Would getting one with some fans installed make much of a difference? I've heard differing opinions on the matter.
HDD - I dunno if I'd need too much storage, really. Having it available would be good, but I don't think I'd need a 200gb drive or anything. But regardless, I'm out for recommendations on this as well. 60-80gb would probably be enough for me.
media drives - I assume a generic DVD rom drive would be fine.
DVDR/W drive - Is there much difference between the standards (+/-)? From waht I've read, there isn't much aside from some compatability issues here and there.
Should I even bother with a floppy drive (considering many computers don't even come with them any more)?
Power supply - is 350-400w adequate? Recommendations (assuming the case doesn't come with one)?
Dedicated soundcard. Worthwhile investment at this stage? Which one?
Any other components I should probably get that aren't listed here? I'm on a lone machine so I don't really need to network or anything.
How can you tell if a PCI card is seated right? I tried installing a USB card some time back, but it never did seem to go in right, and was never detected by windows when I thought it was. Maybe it was just a poorly designed card or something, I don't know. trying to screw it in place properly at the I/O plate was bothersome.
Discharging static - You just need to touch something metallic (like the side of your case) for a few seconds, right?
Any other things I should know before delving in (aside from not using magnetic screwdrivers)? Help is gonna be greatly appreciated on this. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
(That's gotta be the most I've written in a long time <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
Comments
£87.50 £87.50
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (Socket 939) Motherboard (MB-027-MS)
£76.50 £76.50
OcUK ATI Radeon 9800SE 128MB DDR (256-Bit) TV-Out/DVI (AGP) - OEM (R98-SC3) (GX-023-OK)
£79.95 £79.95
Samsung SpinPoint P SP0812C 80GB SATA 8MB Cache - OEM (HD-010-SA)
£37.50 £37.50
Samsung TSH-552B 16 x 16 Dual Layer DVD±RW ReWriter (Black) - OEM (CD-019-SA)
£35.60 £35.60
OcUK Value (6097) Gaming Case Black - 400w PSU (CA-003-OK)
£36.50 £36.50
GeIL 512MB (2x256MB) PC3200 Value Dual Channel Kit CAS2.5 (GE5123200BHDC) (MY-004-GL)
£37.50 £37.50
Subtotal £391.05
VAT £68.44
Total £459.49
From <a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk' target='_blank'>Overclockers.co.uk</a>
Opersating System not included, so keep that in mind.
The mobo has onboard sound, and from what i've heard, it's pretty good
You may want to buy a PSU, as i'm not sure how good the one is that comes with that case. It shouldbe adequate though.
If you do end up buying a PSU, some tips:<ul><li>Do <b>not</b> buy a Q-tec PSU</li><li>around 400Watts should be enough, 350W may be enough</li></ul>
Graphics wise, it's best to go for something a few iterations behind the top of the range card. I'd recommend a cheaper 256MB video card. Again, the money you save from not getting a top card (with attached premium) will allow you to buy an even better card later on or allow you to spend money on other areas of the system.
Get a decent 400w+ PSU, preferably from a manufacturer that offers a guarantee that covers other components in case of failure. Buying a nice case does <b>not</b> guarantee that you will get a decent PSU with it.
Go with the X series. I'd recommend an X700 or X800XL. PCIe isn't really needed yet (and will show a performance DROP until we start seeing 512MB cards), but it would allow you to go crazy-go-nuts and buy an X850XTPE, which holds its own decently against a 6800GT SLI rig, and beats the 6600GT SLI rig (and is cheaper!).
I would recommend avoiding the nForce chipset on the mobo. It may be difficult to find, but if at all possible I can't help but recommend a VIA-powered mobo, preferably an ASUS as their stability has always been rock-solid for me, with a host of overclocking capabilities for the truly insane. But as noted, it'll be a pain to find one with PCIe.
When I was looking at hardware a few weeks ago I was advised to do the exact opposite of this for the same reason - I was advised to get the nForce chipset rather than the VIA because it is far more stable etc...
Now I've got no clue who is right - I was shown a 'benchmark' that 'proved' the nForce was better (i'll see if I can find again) but it wouldn't suprise me at all to be shown a 'benchmark' which 'proved' the VIA was better...
So in conclusion, this post hasn't really been very useful - I'm not saying Talesin is wrong - there is as likely chance he is wrong as he is right - I'm in no position to say - but you should definately consider all the options - when I was asking around, I got many "dont get X get Y because its performed so well for me". To quote some one's setinfo on #ns
"Saying some thing should work because it works for you is like telling some one with broken legs that they aren't infact broken because yours are fine"
Personally I'm going for the DFI nForce 4 board with a x800 Pro gfx - I think the best advice would be to look for one of the 'package deals' where the bits you get together are guaranteed to work well together. (An obvious option (if a little.. 'cheesy') would be Intel's Fatal1ty mobo & gfx card - designed to be put together, and designed for gaming - and not an unreasonable price either)
Good luck :-)
The next-best would probably be a Soyo board, as I have friends who swear by (as opposed to at) them.
Again, I am only speaking from my OWN experience. But given the number of nVidia fanboys, obviously you'll get *someone* to recommend a part from them, no matter HOW it performs. I've not looked at the nForce 4 spec and burn-ins, but I'd not trust a company that ****ed up bad enough to break compatability with their OWN damned video cards in a prior chipset.
Hell, you've still got idiots recommending a 6600GT SLI, when the X850XTPE is cheaper, faster, and takes less power draw. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
CPU
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Winchester 90nm (Socket 939) £087.50
<a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?PRODREF=CP-096-AM&NOLOGIN=1' target='_blank'>http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss00...96-AM&NOLOGIN=1</a>
DVD±R/W | CD-R/W
LiteOn SOHC-5235K 52x/52x/32x/16x CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive £023.00
<a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?PRODREF=CD-036-LO&NOLOGIN=1' target='_blank'>http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss00...36-LO&NOLOGIN=1</a>
Motherboard
MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (Socket 939) £076.50
<a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?PRODREF=MB-027-MS&NOLOGIN=1' target='_blank'>http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss00...27-MS&NOLOGIN=1</a>
DVD ROM
Sony DDU1612 DVD-ROM - OEM £015.00
<a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?PRODREF=CD-003-SO&NOLOGIN=1' target='_blank'>http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss00...03-SO&NOLOGIN=1</a>
Floppy
OcUK Value Floppy Drive £006.50
<a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?PRODREF=HD-001-OK&NOLOGIN=1' target='_blank'>http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss00...01-OK&NOLOGIN=1</a>
Hard Drive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 Plus NCQ 80GB ST380817AS SATA 8MB Cache £034.95
<a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?PRODREF=HD-003-SE&NOLOGIN=1' target='_blank'>http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss00...03-SE&NOLOGIN=1</a>
RAM
GeIL 512MB (2x256MB) PC3200 Value Dual Channel Kit £037.50
<a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?PRODREF=MY-004-GL&NOLOGIN=1' target='_blank'>http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss00...04-GL&NOLOGIN=1</a>
GPU/graphics card
Sapphire ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB DDR TV-Out/DVI £107.50
<a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?PRODREF=GX-017-SP&NOLOGIN=1' target='_blank'>http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss00...17-SP&NOLOGIN=1</a>
Case/Power supply
Antec Sonata Piano Black Quiet Case - 380W TruePower Silent PSU £069.95
<a href='http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss000001.pl?PRODREF=CA-003-AT&NOLOGIN=1' target='_blank'>http://www.overclockers.co.uk/cgi-bin/ss00...03-AT&NOLOGIN=1</a>
Subtotal £458.40
VAT (17.5%) £080.22
Total £538.62
1. DVDRW drives can be notoriously picky on CD reading. The worst case scenario is that the drive reads just the XP installation disc, and nothing else, not even the software that comes bundled with the drive, or even the media that is supplied with a retail drive. Don;t laught, or say "that never happens". I work as a PC engineer and have seen it happen with many a drive. Artec are the main culprits, but it extends to the likes of certain Sony drives, and I've even had to send back 2 Pioneer 109 drives for not even reading any DVD's. That said, the best drive that I have personally used is the NEC ND-3520A drive, which you should still be able to get hold of. I know that <a href='http://www.scan.co.uk' target='_blank'>Scan Computers</a> still stock them, as do Overclockers (just below the LiteOn external SOHW drive, and for 3 quid less.
2. Never trust Silent PSUs. Anyone see the pcitures of the one under test at CustomPC setting half their lab on fire when it blew up under max load? Get a good quality PSU as soon as you can, seeing as you're on a budget. PSU of chice remains the Tagan 480-U01. One of these babies is powering my beast at the moment. Stable as hell, and quiet too. Good if you plan to upgrade to PCI-E in the future, seeing as it comes with all the connections needed. One of them should cost you about £70. the 380w TruPower should be ok, but I'd recommend getting a Tagan when you can. To get one with the bits would mean some serious scrimping. Just don't have it running all day and night.
Other than that, no other problems, everything looks good for a nice mid-range system. If the system needs to quieter, then invest in some acoustic foam, by the likes of Akasa. It stinks when you first open the pack, the glue is made of something weird that really stinks, but it makes the system quieter overall. Normal rules apply to making a PC, earthing up (Have case plugged in, but switched off at the wall, and lean on an unpainted part continuously). Shove some spare bubble wrap down onto the surface you're building on, have it touching unpainted case, this will stop the case from being scratched, and the wrap will also be earthed. Make your coffee *BEFORE* building, as stopping can derail the logical thought that goes into building a PC. Also, have a general build plan mapped out in your mind before building.
Hope my suggestions help
*edit*
If you get any problems with either building, or getting the PC up and running, email/PM me (both get delivered to me anyhoo), or just post in tech support
Thanks for the input, both of you. ('specially the drive info and offer of assistance, Patch)
the abit with an abit x700 pci-x 16x works like a charm now.
if your also looking for something a bit older if your skeptical of new stuff having bugs in it (new stuff usually always does) you can get an athlon 3000+ with a MSI KT4AV and 1 gb of apacer pc-2700 ram for about $320 or less from newegg.com its what i currently use for the core of my computer and it has not died yet.
"Ahh Soltek. The only board where one of two things will happen... Either they'll die within 3 days of the burn-in, or they'll last forever."
Sadly, most of my experience with Soltek just happens to be their returns system. Quite a shame really, seeing as to how much the DRV-5A rocked every other SocketA motherboard available at the time. And they're the only company that I know of that has had an auto-recover BIOS, just in case the 3200+ didn't work in that DRV-4, even with the multipliers set correctly (Oops.)
Just to reiterate what Shoebox said. If you plan on hitting 1GB RAM, and maintaining that Dual Channel setup, then you would need another 2 sticks of 256, all with the same densities as the first 2, ie 8 chip, single sided wouldn't run with 8 chip double sided in dual mode. Given the odds, then you would actually be better getting the single 512 module, then upgrading. That is, if you want to keep the dual channel setup. If not, then just wang out the 2x256.
Not too sure about the cases. I've got very little experience with the Antec cases, except seeing the LanBoy with it guts hanging out at i21 in Newbury. I only use CoolerMaster, and ThermalTake, easier to build with, tend to have a more solid construction (my WaveMaster is nearly 2mm thick all the way through) But then again, CM, and TT are more expensive than most.
Good luck with the build, especially if it's your first one. Don't be afraid to ask for help, and remember to read the manual when building. Never get cocky and think you don't need it. I build PC's every day, and I still refer to a good old fashioned manual.
Seph, something that I just remembered... Invest in a can of compressed air. They only cost about 7 quid at the most, but save *so* much time when cleaning out your PC every few months.
Is it possible to build a good gaming computer for $1000 or under?
More like $963 according to <a href='http://www.xe.com/ucc/' target='_blank'>this</a>.
*edit for spelling and the "Damn I must check my terms before clicking 'Post Reply'" syndrome I've been suffering from recently*