Evolution/abiogenesis: Don't Understand? Ask Me.

179111213

Comments

  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 15 2005, 12:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 15 2005, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 12:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Mar 15 2005, 12:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Mar 15 2005, 12:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 15 2005, 12:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 15 2005, 12:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 09:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have a Question.

    By looking at things and patterns of the past, can we predict what kind of evolutionary changes are going to happen in the future? like if we know how climates and habitats affect how creatures evovled... can we guess whats gonna happen next? talking dolphins maybe? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    In order:

    To a degree. We can get a good idea. No. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, there is evidence that dolphins (and whales) actually do speak. Not a human language of course, but their own language with its own grammer that may actually be even more sophisticated than any known human language. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    and yet if dolphins and humans had a war... the dolphins wouldn't stand a chance... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't see how this pertains. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    how doesn't it pretain? who's more evolved... man kind or dolphins?
  • MantridMantrid Lockpick Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24109Members
    edited March 2005
    Probably the dolphins. They adapted to their environment. Humans, on the other hand, do not adapt to suit their environment; they adapt the environment to suit them.

    Edit: And, on a side note, do you know what apples-to-oranges means?
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 15 2005, 12:45 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 15 2005, 12:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 09:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 09:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and yet if dolphins and humans had a war... the dolphins wouldn't stand a chance... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WHAT THE **** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?! WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm just saying that in this little race... how could humans lose to anything? we could kill every animal to extinction on the face of the earth... Bacteria and Viruses might be a little harder but we could kill them to in time...

    SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THATS BALANCED!!!! HUMANS ARE 100000000X better then any animal.. so how could you figure the odds that one species becomes super strong gods while the rest are just sub-par.

    thats my point I'm trying to get at.
  • MantridMantrid Lockpick Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24109Members
    edited March 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 09:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THATS BALANCED!!!! HUMANS ARE 100000000X better then any animal.. so how could you figure the odds that one species becomes super strong gods while the rest are just sub-par.

    thats my point I'm trying to get at. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, humans are crap. We're one of the crappiest species. We have soft skin thats easily sunburned. We have very little hair to protect us. Our only natural weapons are our pitiful fingernails and teeth. We can plan, and we can communicate. But our bodies suck. We get sick easily. We're easily infected. We don't have a whole lot of pain tolerance. We inefficeintly walk on two legs. Our heads stick way up and are easily spotted by predators.

    What makes us rise above other species isn't our bodies, its our technology. The human mind is amazing, but without basic tools, let alone advanced technology, humans don't stand a chance. We survived by our wits when we still lived in Africa. We made tools, and we made clothing, and we learned to leave Africa. Without tools or clothing, we'd still be there, struggling to stay alive.
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 15 2005, 12:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 15 2005, 12:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 09:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THATS BALANCED!!!! HUMANS ARE 100000000X better then any animal.. so how could you figure the odds that one species becomes super strong gods while the rest are just sub-par.

    thats my point I'm trying to get at. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, humans are crap. We're one of the crappiest species. We have soft skin thats easily sunburned. We have very little hair to protect us. Our only natural weapons are our pitiful fingernails and teeth. We can plan, and we can communicate. But our bodies suck. We get sick easily. We're easily infected. We don't have a whole lot of pain tolerance. We inefficeintly walk on two legs. Our heads stick way up and are easily spotted by predators.

    What makes us rise above other species isn't our bodies, its our technology. The human mind is amazing, but without basic tools, let alone advanced technology, humans don't stand a chance. We survived by our wits when we still lived in Africa. We made tools, and we made clothing, and we learned to leave Africa. Without tools or clothing, we'd still be there, struggling to stay alive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Question
    if evolving Brain FTW is the best strad why are humans the only ones to do it?
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 15 2005, 12:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 15 2005, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Probably the dolphins. They adapted to their environment. Humans, on the other hand, do not adapt to suit their environment; they adapt the environment to suit them.

    Edit: And, on a side note, do you know what apples-to-oranges means? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, that's wrong. His question is meaningless. What exactly does "more evolved" mean? More suited to your environment? How would you tell that? How is adapting your environment to you any less of an adaption than just plain adapting to your environment?
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 15 2005, 12:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 15 2005, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 15 2005, 12:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 15 2005, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Probably the dolphins. They adapted to their environment. Humans, on the other hand, do not adapt to suit their environment; they adapt the environment to suit them.

    Edit: And, on a side note, do you know what apples-to-oranges means? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, that's wrong. His question is meaningless. What exactly does "more evolved" mean? More suited to your environment? How would you tell that? How is adapting your environment to you any less of an adaption than just plain adapting to your environment? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    whats better... a people who can live in thier home perfectly... or people that can live anyway and kill anyone... who's better off?
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 12:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 12:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 15 2005, 12:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 15 2005, 12:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 09:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 09:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> SO HOW CAN YOU SAY THATS BALANCED!!!! HUMANS ARE 100000000X better then any animal.. so how could you figure the odds that one species becomes super strong gods while the rest are just sub-par.

    thats my point I'm trying to get at. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, humans are crap. We're one of the crappiest species. We have soft skin thats easily sunburned. We have very little hair to protect us. Our only natural weapons are our pitiful fingernails and teeth. We can plan, and we can communicate. But our bodies suck. We get sick easily. We're easily infected. We don't have a whole lot of pain tolerance. We inefficeintly walk on two legs. Our heads stick way up and are easily spotted by predators.

    What makes us rise above other species isn't our bodies, its our technology. The human mind is amazing, but without basic tools, let alone advanced technology, humans don't stand a chance. We survived by our wits when we still lived in Africa. We made tools, and we made clothing, and we learned to leave Africa. Without tools or clothing, we'd still be there, struggling to stay alive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Question
    if evolving Brain FTW is the best strad why are humans the only ones to do it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Maybe because we're the first ones to do it? It's not like evolution seeks out and finds the best strategy to survive. Life evolves randomly. Evolution picks the best stuff and keeps it, while throwing away stuff that doesn't work. Evolution can't go towards intelligence, it can only give it an advantage if it has already developed.

    BTW, AvengerX, have you made any points that haven't been thoroughly rebutted yet? I'm wondering when you finally accept that evolution is true.
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    edited March 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 12:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 15 2005, 12:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 15 2005, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 15 2005, 12:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 15 2005, 12:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Probably the dolphins. They adapted to their environment. Humans, on the other hand, do not adapt to suit their environment; they adapt the environment to suit them.

    Edit: And, on a side note, do you know what apples-to-oranges means? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, that's wrong. His question is meaningless. What exactly does "more evolved" mean? More suited to your environment? How would you tell that? How is adapting your environment to you any less of an adaption than just plain adapting to your environment? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    whats better... a people who can live in thier home perfectly... or people that can live anyway and kill anyone... who's better off? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm not sure what you mean by better. As a Christian, you surely aren't suggesting that people who kill are better, are you?

    If you mean more evolutionarily fit, the people who could kill would do well if they can figure out that they shouldn't kill everything for food. If they can't, then all their prey will die. People that can fit in their home perfectly will do well, but they won't be able to exponentially expand like the people with enough power to kill everything in their environment. Neither one is better than the other. The question doesn't have much meaning.
  • MantridMantrid Lockpick Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24109Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 09:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 09:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Question
    if evolving Brain FTW is the best strad why are humans the only ones to do it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Because we pretty much killed any competing Neanderthals and Cro Magnons. They were the only other species that could have matched the mental capacity of Homo Sapiens.
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    I told you I believe in Mircoevoltion. just not marco evolution. and millions of people believe in God. why don't you?

    but back on topic

    so your telling me... out of the millions of Species only one of them evolved a larger brain. just magically were the only ones to do so when every other tactic has multiple examples of it.
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    edited March 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so your telling me... out of the millions of Species only one of them evolved a larger brain. just magically were the only ones to do so when every other tactic has multiple examples of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We were the first ones to do it (probably). Not every tactic has multiple examples. There is a variety of beetle that uses two chemicals and a catalyst to make an explosion to scare off predators. There is a variety of fish that uses a missile to shoot prey off of grass around their pond (other species have missile weapons, but no offensive ones).

    I see Cagey stopped reading. Maybe they won't lock it?
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    killing is fine. we had to kill people to make the U.S.A which was the country where people could find free religion. so killing was good there. killing is often a good solution. God can work things out because death isn't the end. even gandalf said that.
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 15 2005, 01:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 15 2005, 01:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so your telling me... out of the millions of Species only one of them evolved a larger brain. just magically were the only ones to do so when every other tactic has multiple examples of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We were the first ones to do it (probably). Not every tactic has multiple examples. There is a variety of beetle that uses two chemicals and a catalyst to make an explosion to scare off predators. There is a variety of fish that uses a missile to shoot prey off of grass around their pond (other species have missile weapons, but no offensive ones).

    I see Cagey stopped reading. Maybe they won't lock it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Lerk spikes were removed from NS buddy...

    I wanna see some pictures of fish shooting missles. and beatles blowing up
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> killing is fine. we had to kill people to make the U.S.A which was the country where people could find free religion. so killing was good there. killing is often a good solution. God can work things out because death isn't the end. even gandalf said that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_commandments' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_commandments</a>
    Thou Shall Not Kill
  • MantridMantrid Lockpick Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24109Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I told you I believe in Mircoevoltion. just not marco evolution. and millions of people believe in God. why don't you?

    but back on topic

    so your telling me... out of the millions of Species only one of them evolved a larger brain. just magically were the only ones to do so when every other tactic has multiple examples of it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You're telling me out of the millions of species only one has evolved to hop around and carry its young in its pouch? You're telling me out of the millions of species, only one has a duck bill, feeds its young milk, and lays eggs? You're telling me out of the millions of species, only one has formed a hammer-shaped head?

    Do I need to go on?



    And, as a side note:

    And millions of people believe in <s>God</s> evolution. Why don't you?

    As for my reasons for not believing in god, its twofold:

    A) I don't see a reason for there to be a god, what with all the wonders of science.

    B) Simple application of Occam's Razor: Whats more likely, that there is a supernatural being that can ignore the laws of physics, or that there were a bunch of poorly documented accounts of heresay about "miracles", and that people dreamt up a "god" so they could sleep better at night, pretending they had purpose and there was someone protecting them?
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 15 2005, 01:10 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 15 2005, 01:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so your telling me... out of the millions of Species only one of them evolved a larger brain. just magically were the only ones to do so when every other tactic has multiple examples of it. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We were the first ones to do it (probably). Not every tactic has multiple examples. There is a variety of beetle that uses two chemicals and a catalyst to make an explosion to scare off predators. There is a variety of fish that uses a missile to shoot prey off of grass around their pond (other species have missile weapons, but no offensive ones).

    I see Cagey stopped reading. Maybe they won't lock it? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Lerk spikes were removed from NS buddy...

    I wanna see some pictures of fish shooting missles. and beatles blowing up <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Archer Fish
    <a href='http://www.naturia.per.sg/buloh/verts/archer_fish.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.naturia.per.sg/buloh/verts/archer_fish.htm</a>
    Bombardier Beetle
    <a href='http://www.discoverymagazine.com/articles/d2001/d0107a.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.discoverymagazine.com/articles/d2001/d0107a.htm</a>
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 15 2005, 01:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 15 2005, 01:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:11 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> killing is fine. we had to kill people to make the U.S.A which was the country where people could find free religion. so killing was good there. killing is often a good solution. God can work things out because death isn't the end. even gandalf said that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_commandments' target='_blank'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_commandments</a>
    Thou Shall Not Kill <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That was the law of moses buddy, which was fullfilled when Jesus atoned for our sins. according to that law, its an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but a spineless guy like you wouldn't adobt that would ya.

    Love can sometimes kill. but hate will allways hurt.

    see sometimes killing people is just what needs to be done.
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    thats not a missle, thats just a squit gun... come on... but still thats pretty cool
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 15 2005, 01:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 15 2005, 01:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> B) Simple application of Occam's Razor: Whats more likely, that there is a supernatural being that can ignore the laws of physics, or that there were a bunch of poorly documented accounts of heresay about "miracles", and that people dreamt up a "god" so they could sleep better at night, pretending they had purpose and there was someone protecting them? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This isn't the correct application of Occam's Razor. You use Occam's Razor only when you have two different possibilities that are equally likely, to eliminate the one that is more complex.

    They way I use Occam's Razor to justify atheism is that you have two scenarios:
    A. You have the laws of physics, chemistry, the theory of evolution, mathematics, and all the laws of the universe governing everything we see. The Big Bang is used to explain the creation of the universe.
    B. You have the laws of physics, chemistry, the theory of evolution, mathematics, and all the laws of the universe governing everything we see. The Big Bang is used to explain the creation of the universe. God initiated all of this.

    Now, A is the one you should assume is true, because B is more complex and there is no way to ascertain the probability that God exists, so the probability of each scenario is equal. This doesn't mean God doesn't exist. This means that you should assume that he doesn't.
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    so if I took a chainsaw and hacked off your head why would you even care? if there's nothing after death you won't even be around to miss this expierence. so why bother even having it? thats like writing a program that will never be saved on a harddrive... why even bother?
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so if I took a chainsaw and hacked off your head why would you even care? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Because it would end my life experience and my entire existence, which is something that I don't want. If anything, you'd be more likely to be OK with suicide/murder if you are a Christian, because there is something after it.
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if there's nothing after death you won't even be around to miss this expierence. so why bother even having it? thats like writing a program that will never be saved on a harddrive... why even bother?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Because you found it enjoyable to write that program?
  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Members
    edited March 2005
    @Mantrid:
    I've found alot of interesting stuff, unfortunatly not very much of it can be verified easily upon first glance. However, this google cache of a paper discussing the cognative and lingual abilities of dolphins should be of some interest to you: <a href='http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:jncYgypUNFMJ:grimpeur.tamu.edu/~colin/TheCognitiveAnimal/Ch/Herman/herman-final.rtf+dolphin+language+study&hl=en&client=firefox-a' target='_blank'>http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:jncYg...lient=firefox-a</a>

    Some of the more interesting stuff I've found speculates that dolphin native lingual concepts are simply too sophisticated and different from our own to be understood, at least without alot more study. However, dolhpins don't seem to have the same limitation understanding human language!
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 15 2005, 01:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 15 2005, 01:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so if I took a chainsaw and hacked off your head why would you even care? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Because it would end my life experience and my entire existence, which is something that I don't want. If anything, you'd be more likely to be OK with suicide/murder if you are a Christian, because there is something after it.
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if there's nothing after death you won't even be around to miss this expierence. so why bother even having it? thats like writing a program that will never be saved on a harddrive... why even bother?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Because you found it enjoyable to write that program? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    you might not want it now... but once its over you wouldn't be able to unwant it.

    you should just kill yourself and not bother with life. or at least have a few kids and pass on your genes if your into that kind of thing, then slit your wrists
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Mar 15 2005, 01:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Mar 15 2005, 01:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> @Mantrid:
    I've found alot of interesting stuff, unfortunatly not very much of it can be verified easily upon first glance. However, this google cache of a paper discussing the cognative and lingual abilities of dolphins should be of some interest to you: <a href='http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:jncYgypUNFMJ:grimpeur.tamu.edu/~colin/TheCognitiveAnimal/Ch/Herman/herman-final.rtf+dolphin+language+study&hl=en&client=firefox-a' target='_blank'>http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:jncYg...lient=firefox-a</a>

    Some of the more interesting stuff I've found speculates that dolphin native lingual concepts are simply too sophisticated and different from our own to be understood, at least without alot more study. However, dolhpins don't seem to have the same limitation understanding human language! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    give it a rest, the dolphins don't stand a chance agaisnt the legions of humanity
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    edited March 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-theclam+Mar 15 2005, 01:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (theclam @ Mar 15 2005, 01:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 15 2005, 01:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 15 2005, 01:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> so if I took a chainsaw and hacked off your head why would you even care? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Because it would end my life experience and my entire existence, which is something that I don't want. If anything, you'd be more likely to be OK with suicide/murder if you are a Christian, because there is something after it.
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if there's nothing after death you won't even be around to miss this expierence. so why bother even having it? thats like writing a program that will never be saved on a harddrive... why even bother?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Because you found it enjoyable to write that program? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    you might not want it now... but once its over you wouldn't be able to unwant it.

    you should just kill yourself and not bother with life. or at least have a few kids and pass on your genes if your into that kind of thing, then slit your wrists <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    So if I enjoy something, then I should stop doing it so that I can experience nothing? I apologize for this, everyone, but you're either a moron or a b*****d, AvengerX.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> give it a rest, the dolphins don't stand a chance agaisnt the legions of humanity<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    THIS DOESN'T MATTER. NO ONE IS CLAIMING THAT THEY WOULD STAND A CHANCE IF WE DECIDED TO EXTERMINATE THEM AND NO ONE CARES THAT WE COULD EXTERMINATE DOLPHINS IF WE WANTED TO.

    I would rather have both of us be banned than for me to have to listen to this crap that spews out of your mouth. In all the time I've spent arguing with you in several threads, you haven't made on insightful point, you've offended several people, you don't listen, you display constant ignorance, and you don't contribute to a discussion. I don't even think you understand what I'm saying now, because your faith serves as an earwax that blocks off all aural input.
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    you wouldn't enjoy nothing, you wouldn't be anything. I'm just saying you life seems so very very pointless I don't understand how you go on living
  • MantridMantrid Lockpick Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24109Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 10:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 10:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you should just kill yourself and not bother with life. or at least have a few kids and pass on your genes if your into that kind of thing, then slit your wrists <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That makes sense for you, not me. I don't believe there is anything after death. Therefore, I want to exist, that is, to not die, for as long as possible, so I can still think and feel and love and learn.

    You, on the other hand, should slit your wrists. Then, supposedly, you'd be sent to your heavenly reward. Except that suicide is supposed to be a sin, but whatever.

    Actually, I'd like to ask you something, AvengerX:

    Why is it immoral, under Christian faith, to kill baptised babies? They haven't sinned, they've been saved by baptisim, and by killing them, they won't have to endure the pain of life, and will immediatly enter into bliss? Wouldn't I be doing those babies a favor?
  • MantridMantrid Lockpick Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24109Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 10:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 10:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you wouldn't enjoy nothing, you wouldn't be anything. I'm just saying you life seems so very very pointless I don't understand how you go on living <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Life may be pointless, but its better than the alternative. Given the option of a pointless existance, or no existance, I'll take the pointless existence.

    I don't understand why this is so hard for you.
  • theclamtheclam Join Date: 2004-08-01 Member: 30290Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Mantrid+Mar 15 2005, 01:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mantrid @ Mar 15 2005, 01:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Mar 14 2005, 10:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Mar 14 2005, 10:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> you should just kill yourself and not bother with life. or at least have a few kids and pass on your genes if your into that kind of thing, then slit your wrists <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That makes sense for you, not me. I don't believe there is anything after death. Therefore, I want to exist, that is, to not die, for as long as possible, so I can still think and feel and love and learn.

    You, on the other hand, should slit your wrists. Then, supposedly, you'd be sent to your heavenly reward. Except that suicide is supposed to be a sin, but whatever.

    Actually, I'd like to ask you something, AvengerX:

    Why is it immoral, under Christian faith, to kill baptised babies? They haven't sinned, they've been saved by baptisim, and by killing them, they won't have to endure the pain of life, and will immediatly enter into bliss? Wouldn't I be doing those babies a favor? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You could even be a martyr by killing them yourself, AvengerX. You'll give up your spot in heaven (after all, infanticide is a sin, just like abortion) so that they will have a 100% chance of getting in.
Sign In or Register to comment.