The Lerk.
N1Rampage
Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24420Members
Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24420Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Poll maybe?</div> <span style='color:orange'>Changed to poll format by Marik. Possible answers suggested by N1Rampage have been snipped out of this post and moved into the poll question area above.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>By the way, N1: if you're going to thank me, don't edit in a "thank you!" into this post to do it. Last I checked, editing the top post in a poll thread resets all the poll results, because it assumes the whole question is new and people need to answer the new one</span></span>
I think it's at #3, it seems kinda of weak, but I know people will say its for support, but just SCREAMS to be opened-up like a hotrod. I seems to be having to do alot of running away after only a few shots fired. I was once even blown out of the sky with 2 people with shotties, over 50 yards away, no problem, first shot from each guy.
Could it be possible to make it faster by a few units and give flight unlimited power (like in the one beta)?
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>By the way, N1: if you're going to thank me, don't edit in a "thank you!" into this post to do it. Last I checked, editing the top post in a poll thread resets all the poll results, because it assumes the whole question is new and people need to answer the new one</span></span>
I think it's at #3, it seems kinda of weak, but I know people will say its for support, but just SCREAMS to be opened-up like a hotrod. I seems to be having to do alot of running away after only a few shots fired. I was once even blown out of the sky with 2 people with shotties, over 50 yards away, no problem, first shot from each guy.
Could it be possible to make it faster by a few units and give flight unlimited power (like in the one beta)?
Comments
I say that it's fine, after months of experimenting.
In combat, spores either gives you lots of kills, or forces everyone to get resupply if they don't already have it. Even if they have resupply and armor 1, it still makes it easy for the focus skulks on your team to get easy kills. If you are sporing often, marines won't have a chance to weld each other, even if they get welders and have enough teamwork to consider it.
The reason I love lerking is that you can do it cheap, you can aid your team momentously without having to kill a single marine, you can take out single marine with the utmost ease, and very few people know how to lerk very well. There are a dozen excellent fades in competetive ns but I can list all the excellent lerks on one hand.
Regards,
Savant
As for the lerk: it seems a bit flakey to me, but that might be just me trying to use it as an offensive unit. I tend to go up front on the battles a lot instead of defending; I think that's what it should be for. A flying skulk!
So i say dont nerf it all thanks.
It COULD do with a tiny armour boost or something to protect a bit better against HMG/Shotguns.
Im not pro at lerking but I have killed a couple of marines (including heavy armour) and flew out of the room and managed to live. Its a little bit overpowered early game.
If anything, it's Bite coupled with Spores is <i>too</i> good, for what is theoretically the 'Support' lifeform.
- Shockwave
with a slightly better flightmodel it may be possible to make it retreat while dodging heavy fire without celerity.
umbra is the most underated and underused alien "weapon" aleins in umbra are very hard to kill...
And it doesn't take long to build up 30 more resources if you do get killed.
If you're fed up of getting owned as a Lerk, then go play on a Q3 server and find out what it <b>really</b> feels like to get smacked down. Or go rack up some kills on a nub CS server and pretend to yourself that you have 1337 aim.
Just please don't mess up the Lerk because you are not prepared to practice with it. If I can manage it (I'm 30 this year), then I'm sure the signifigantly sharper reflexes of our younger playerbase can manage it.
General Hints:
If you are running out of energy all the time, you aren't planning your energy usage well enough. Lerking without <i>Adrenaline</i> is tough, but it's perfectly possible. Don't spore till you're out of energy, then complain when you can't fly away from the marine you didn't keep an eye out for.
Want to help kill HA and only have one hive? Kill structures, not troops. You can harass base and nodes and fly away until the marines are terminally distracted or you kill the structure you were going for.
umbra is the most underated and underused alien "weapon" aleins in umbra are very hard to kill... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Umbra is underused because it sucks up energy like nothing else, and is only effective to lifeforms it is in. Umbra takes far more skill and foresight to use properly then any other ability in NS, and it really doens't block THAT much damage in the end anyways.
Also you have to be on the floor or flying forwards to fire it. Why can't lerks fly backwards/hover and fire anymore? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Quoted for emphasis. Especially against those "give us back spike" campaigners.
So tell me, have you ever played the lerk when it had spikes? Many people here haven't, and they don't realize how valuable the lerk was with spikes.
Don't get me wrong here, no one weapon is the be all and end all to defining an alien class. IMO, the spikes are no more or less important than bite, spores and umbra. They are intended to be looked at as a package of weapons. If people focus on the one weapon alone, it's easy to find flaws.
The reality is that I could find flaws with EVERY alien weapon in the game. They all have pros and cons and they all have their place to be used. Spikes are the weapon that is needed to round out the alien arsenal for those cases when they are trapped against marines in a one hive situation where they are unable to bust the marine bases.
Before people suggest that "then that's too bad you should lose" I would ask that if that is your opinion then the game should end THEN, and not 30 minutes later after marines decide to walk on your only hive. Spikes are even more important now that electrified structures are in play. Spikes give the alien team a chance to come back, a chance that they often don't have otherwise. If people want to deny them that chance, then they should either offer an alternative or suggest a method to end <b>pointless games </b>without having to spend a half-hour playing a game you know you are going to lose because of a early game error.
Simple-minded statements like 'the lerk is fine' are based in ignorance, not fact.
Regards,
Savant
If people want to deny them that chance, then they should either offer an alternative or suggest a method to end <b>pointless games </b>without having to spend a half-hour playing a game you know you are going to lose because of a early game error.
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mp_autoconcede 1
F4
With spikes doing damage at 40/sec, (16 per spike and 2.5 rounds a sec) it will take 32 seconds to down a turret, add an extra 5 seconds for an adrenaline reload. That's NOT a lot of time when aliens are out harassing the marines elsewhere on the map.
Going after a TF or phase gate will take 75 seconds, add 15 seconds for adrenaline reload. That's 90 seconds that aliens need to keep marines occupied while the TF or phase is taken out. In the big scheme of things that's not a lot of time if the marines are occupied. If aliens are just 'hanging around' then sure, a lerk won't be able to do squat without the comm noticing. However, if aliens are all in one area the lerk can hit another area. If they come there the lerk heads off and hits another area. While marines are kept busy welding and patrolling the aliens take out all the nodes on the map except the turret farmed areas.
Spikes give VARIETY to the aliens that they need now, since they are limited in how they can respond to certain threats. Right now thist is one of the big things lacking in the game. It is getting to the point where you are forced to respond in a certain way all the time, so much so it's almost like the game is scripted.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If spike goes back in, it's NOT being used solely or even mostly to take down electrified structures. It's going to be used to flat out mow down marines. No, spike can't go back in. ... Spikes turn this balanced support/patrol unit into a flat-out killer, which imo is not its purpose.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->You're kidding right? Right now spores do more damage than spikes do when you consider the area effect on marines.
If you have ever tried using spikes to kill a marine you will know that it is much harder to do than it seems, since you have to be in SIGHT of the marine the entire time you are firing. LOS from marine to lerk = quick lerk death. With spores you can 'peek out' and toss then retreat while the cloud does its damage. They are far more deadly than spikes that need LOS and can only hit one marine at a time.
If you think spikes would be a real threat to marines, just play on a server that has a spike mod for the lerk and try it. After you get pistol whipped the first 5 times, come back and tell me how you were 'owning' the marines with your spikes. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The lerk has all of the attacks it needs: one to take out lone marines, one to support aliens offensively, one to support aliens defensively...and another attack that might get used more often if the 2nd and 3rd weren't so much more important. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->IMO the lerk as the worst weapon load-out of the aliens with respect to its needs and it's class.
The gorge, supposedly a 'key support class' has <b>FOUR</b> weapons that will affect and/or damage marines/marine structures. This is an alien that is <i>supposed</i> to be a <b>SUPPORT</b> class right? The lerk, on the other hand, only has TWO weapons that will damage or affect marines/marine structures, yet it is supposed to be a 'hybrid' support/attack class. The reality is that in classic it is anything but.
If anything, this should be reversed - the gorge should be the alien that only has a limited attack arsenal and the lerk should be the hybrid attack/support alien that can both attack and support. At present, once marines each a certain point, the lerk becomes useless except for the occasional umbra cloud, which even then they don't even get umbra protection for <b>themselves</b> when they shoot umbra at range. They have to choose to leave themselves undefended to support another alien.
The lerk gets NO ADVANCED WEAPONS as the game goes on. So while marines get harder and harder to kill as they get armor upgrades and HA, the lerk does not get any better tools to use to address this. The lerk is a gimped class, which is why you see more people avoid using it in the game.
I used to love the lerk, but even now I avoid it unless the aliens have a 'sure win' and we need umbra to help bust the marine's last stand with LVL3 weapons in their base. The lerk really doesn't have a good place anymore. Sure they are good for early game harassment of marines, but the aliens really need the early game res to build up hives and drop chambers. Once the second hive drops the aliens need fades more than lerks, since marines are usually pushing with weapon and armor upgrades.
IMHO, while the lerk can be fun in combat (where there is no 'loss' when you die) the risk/benefit ratio is classic is too high given what the lerk can do and how well it can do it. I'd sooner take a skulk with upgrades and save my res for fade/onos.
Regards,
Savant
so are a lot of things in ns..