Problems
SquishyOne
Join Date: 2005-01-11 Member: 34963Members
Join Date: 2005-01-11 Member: 34963Members
1. Knife is crap now. You actually have to be inside the friggin alien model to get em.
2. Kiss Ninjaing goodbye. Hello sof/cloak in every hive.
2. You guys complain and complain about how it sucks that DC is the only option and now you make aliens even more dependent on SC. No matter you can win with any chamber now that aliens are so powerful but SC makes it pathetically easy.
3. The game relying on Sensory so much... well there are a million different ways to mess with stuff to be able to see through cloaking. You'll never know whether he got lucky or has **** up gamma.
4. Competitive play is going to take a big hit. Cloaking takes a big chunk out of the skill in the game.
5. Like I said before Sensory first is pathetic if you have any amount of skill. 10-1 in the two minute is a constant for any decent player on a pub now. The only thing that made rines have a chance before was their dominate early game. Kiss it goodbye.
6. WTH Devs? Did you think people complaining about sensory not being useful enough meant make it a super chamber of invincibility?
All around the game seems smoother and less buggy but the balance changes were made very poorly. Need to take out cloaking while you run and sof from sensory chambers.
The only real balance tweak needed was free upgs to make the game an even playing field. The rest just makes it unfair in Aliens favor instead of rines.
2. Kiss Ninjaing goodbye. Hello sof/cloak in every hive.
2. You guys complain and complain about how it sucks that DC is the only option and now you make aliens even more dependent on SC. No matter you can win with any chamber now that aliens are so powerful but SC makes it pathetically easy.
3. The game relying on Sensory so much... well there are a million different ways to mess with stuff to be able to see through cloaking. You'll never know whether he got lucky or has **** up gamma.
4. Competitive play is going to take a big hit. Cloaking takes a big chunk out of the skill in the game.
5. Like I said before Sensory first is pathetic if you have any amount of skill. 10-1 in the two minute is a constant for any decent player on a pub now. The only thing that made rines have a chance before was their dominate early game. Kiss it goodbye.
6. WTH Devs? Did you think people complaining about sensory not being useful enough meant make it a super chamber of invincibility?
All around the game seems smoother and less buggy but the balance changes were made very poorly. Need to take out cloaking while you run and sof from sensory chambers.
The only real balance tweak needed was free upgs to make the game an even playing field. The rest just makes it unfair in Aliens favor instead of rines.
Comments
And to reply to the fade thing to the poster below me. As a fade with constantly healing no matter what and with focus + sof you are literally invincible. Just how this pub 5 hours ago learned quick :/
Once our team plays Tanith we can show you how powerful SC really is <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Also, sensory first is still a give-and-take situation for the aliens. Your fades will definitely be weaker because of it until the second hive goes up, so marines have to exploit the fact that they're not going to see tough fades for an extra few minutes on average.
As for ninja phases getting killed....whoops, did the devs actually give the aliens a counter to a overly-effective marine tactic that they never were supposed to have anyway? Can't have that, eh? <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Give it a month, then start complaining. It hasn't been out for a week yet.
Can I borrow your crystal ball? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Can I borrow your crystal ball? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We've had alien ties on ns_veil between top teams. Now that does say someting, doesnt it :/
2. Kiss Ninjaing goodbye. Hello sof/cloak in every hive.
2. You guys complain and complain about how it sucks that DC is the only option and now you make aliens even more dependent on SC. No matter you can win with any chamber now that aliens are so powerful but SC makes it pathetically easy.
3. The game relying on Sensory so much... well there are a million different ways to mess with stuff to be able to see through cloaking. You'll never know whether he got lucky or has **** up gamma.
4. Competitive play is going to take a big hit. Cloaking takes a big chunk out of the skill in the game.
5. Like I said before Sensory first is pathetic if you have any amount of skill. 10-1 in the two minute is a constant for any decent player on a pub now. The only thing that made rines have a chance before was their dominate early game. Kiss it goodbye.
6. WTH Devs? Did you think people complaining about sensory not being useful enough meant make it a super chamber of invincibility?
All around the game seems smoother and less buggy but the balance changes were made very poorly. Need to take out cloaking while you run and sof from sensory chambers.
The only real balance tweak needed was free upgs to make the game an even playing field. The rest just makes it unfair in Aliens favor instead of rines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. Knife isn't crap. It's the weapon it was supposed to be...NOT a viable weapon.
2. In the consti builds (which are the same as the one realeased) movement chambers and defense chambers began to be used just like sensory chambers.
2 (again??). Read above.
3. The advantage is less, so that most everyone can see through cloaking if they try. It was 95% cloaked, now it's only 90%. Besides, sensory isn't relied on too much.
4. I guess it does...but then again, in competitive play, who uses cloaking anyway?
5. Not really.
6. It seems you don't like sensory.
Overall, the game seems better to me. I think that the devs did a great job, and after the SC nostalgia runs out, and the MC nostalgia (soon to come) runs out, chambers will be used about the same.
edit: honostly, pee rick is censored?
Don't get me wrong. In fact, let me put it clearly:
<b>Natural Selection 3.0 is unbalanced.</b> As were all 3.0 betas, as was every version of 2.0, as was the case with 1.04, 1.03, 1.02, 1.01, 1.0, and all pre-release versions. We are not delusional enough to believe that we have struck perfect balance with this version. Bolstered by a lot of testing, we merely believe that we have <i>improved</i> the game. And whether that hope turns out to be true, none will be able to say in the immediate future.
But this is veil we're talking about.
Apart from balance, and my confessed hatred for the cloaking upgrade, I'd say this version is an improvement though.
Basically, sensory chambers have to be spread out in a network to be effective. This means they are vulnerable, and killing them will create a noticeable impact on the results of the game. Someone mentioned that a sof/focus/passive regen fade is invincible. If there isn't much of a sensory network left for them to use, then they only get focus or sof, at least until you try pushing close to the hives.
But this is veil we're talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't possibly hope to convince anyone that scs are overpowered when your one piece of evidence is a single clan match. I mean, statsticians the world over are getting brain cancer just because you posted that.
But this is veil we're talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't possibly hope to convince anyone that scs are overpowered when your one piece of evidence is a single clan match. I mean, statsticians the world over are getting brain cancer just because you posted that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I havent mentioned SCs at all, except for my casual comment of how I dislike cloaking as a concept...
But this is veil we're talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't possibly hope to convince anyone that scs are overpowered when your one piece of evidence is a single clan match. I mean, statsticians the world over are getting brain cancer just because you posted that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I havent mentioned SCs at all, except for my casual comment of how I dislike cloaking as a concept... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You aren't going to convince people of ANYTHING based on a single clan match. Especially when it happened before the teams have had a chance to create new tactics.
But this is veil we're talking about. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't possibly hope to convince anyone that scs are overpowered when your one piece of evidence is a single clan match. I mean, statsticians the world over are getting brain cancer just because you posted that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I havent mentioned SCs at all, except for my casual comment of how I dislike cloaking as a concept... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You aren't going to convince people of ANYTHING based on a single clan match. Especially when it happened before the teams have had a chance to create new tactics. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Single events can indicate a pattern, without actually proving it is there...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Let's see....having problems with single aliens cloaking? Stay in groups and watch each other's backs. You see an alien go for a bite, your squad should be able to kill him before he gets the second bite in. To help with this, get armor1, which you should get anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you kidding me? It takes what 1.5 seconds to get 2 bites off? I wish the marines in my clan ever gave me that kind of cover. On a pub it's laughable. Welders/early A1 have always been a counter to sensory. A partial counter. And one that considering the coordination it takes to use properly is laughable on pubs.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also, sensory first is still a give-and-take situation for the aliens. Your fades will definitely be weaker because of it until the second hive goes up, so marines have to exploit the fact that they're not going to see tough fades for an extra few minutes on average.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My fades will be weaker? I don't need fades until after my 2nd hive is up buddy. I have lerks/skulks that can easily control the map. Marines rely on EARLY game domination. It is a thing of the past with decent aliens.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for ninja phases getting killed....whoops, did the devs actually give the aliens a counter to a overly-effective marine tactic that they never were supposed to have anyway? Can't have that, eh?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Overly effective? Against good aliens it is one of the toughest things in the game to accomplish. Never supposed to have? They were never supposed to have all kinds of **** the devs let slide. I guess ns was never supposed to be fun right? Every version they take away some skill that actually takes skill and is really fun to make the game more "pub friendly"
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> remember when b5 first came out. The marines won 75% of all pub games, both combat and classic. After a while, people adapted, and the ratio went back down to normal (albeit not so much in clan play).
Give it a month, then start complaining. It hasn't been out for a week yet.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
?? Rines still easily won 75 percent of games of equal skill. With a decent com your rines had to be absolutely awful to lose.It never evened out.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NS 3.0 released 52 hours ago. Assuming that you took the time for the basest of human needs, you have played below 28 hours, or 56 games of NS:Classic so far. Yet, you can already predict the way the game will play weeks from now?
Can I borrow your crystal ball?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My crystal ball is in the shop for repairs after it failed me in the suns/sonics game. But maybe someday you'll get my common sense. The devs amaze me every build by their lack of understanding how their changes will effect the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->1. Knife isn't crap. It's the weapon it was supposed to be...NOT a viable weapon<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another fun skill from the game. Take away knockback but leave my range. It is USELESS. Give me a flipping bb gun instead so at least I can play around with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2. In the consti builds (which are the same as the one realeased) movement chambers and defense chambers began to be used just like sensory chambers.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And? Yes every chamber is now viable. That in no way means that sensory is not by far the best choice. It just means aliens are really strong all around.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->3. The advantage is less, so that most everyone can see through cloaking if they try. It was 95% cloaked, now it's only 90%. Besides, sensory isn't relied on too much.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sensory isn't relied on too much? It's about 5:2 now in my experience people going sensory. In clan matchs I wouldn't want to use it for the sole reason that maybe 10 percent plus of people can see cloaking really easily. Other than that it should be dominatiing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->4. I guess it does...but then again, in competitive play, who uses cloaking anyway?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When it sucked Terror and Exigent used it as second hive. With the new changes who knows?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Overall, the game seems better to me. I think that the devs did a great job, and after the SC nostalgia runs out, and the MC nostalgia (soon to come) runs out, chambers will be used about the same.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps out of boredom. The effectiveness of Sensory won't go away though. I can only see one main way of consistently countering it and that will never be viable in pubs.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Natural Selection 3.0 is unbalanced. As were all 3.0 betas, as was every version of 2.0, as was the case with 1.04, 1.03, 1.02, 1.01, 1.0, and all pre-release versions. We are not delusional enough to believe that we have struck perfect balance with this version. Bolstered by a lot of testing, we merely believe that we have improved the game. And whether that hope turns out to be true, none will be able to say in the immediate future.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2.01 was very well balanced. Other than that ya you are fairly right. Simply making alien upgs free was a perfect change for aliens. Aliens being able to run cloaked is just silly.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Is it impossible for comms to get an early observatory and scan for their marines? This negates the cloaking upgrade, and it means that marines can kill sensory chambers in open, accessible areas. When the alien team only has 2 sensory chambers left because the rest of them were easy to kill, then marines have quite good chances. I played a game on nancy yesterday, and I placed a sensory chamber next to the resource tower right outside of base, down the corridor that isn't used very often. It was the only thing there, and if the comm had scanned once, or if marines had sprayed their lmg's in that direction at all, it would have easily been killed. However, it was never touched by marines that game.
Basically, sensory chambers have to be spread out in a network to be effective. This means they are vulnerable, and killing them will create a noticeable impact on the results of the game. Someone mentioned that a sof/focus/passive regen fade is invincible. If there isn't much of a sensory network left for them to use, then they only get focus or sof, at least until you try pushing close to the hives.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all most coms are bad. Second of all you can scan what once ever 2 minutes or something? Yes killing sensory chambers can be very useful but it can also be a death trap.
Ya know what sensory isn't even my main beef with this new version. We waited months for this and its the same game as before. Some things that were fun are gone now. And NOTHING was added. No new content whatsoever. The game will go right back to how it was before except in the aliens favor instead of marines. Games will drag out for 40 mins consistently because of aliens lack of finishing power. And it will be in the exact same rut as before.
The flow of the game which gives it phases which have been a problem hasn't been touched. Nothing that will entice new people to the game was added nor nothing that will bring back old. Asside from shifting the balance more in favor of aliens than it was in favor of marines the game just got a bit less fun.
Next time you take 6 months to do something at least add a rare purple onos of death that has 2000 hp/1200 armor that you have .1 percent chance of evolving into when you go onos.
If you have any *helpful* criticism on how things could be changed, I'd like to direct your attention to the I&S forum. It's there for a reason.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Squishy, if you're so damn unhappy with the game, don't play for god's sake. There are other games out there that would suit you just fine - go play one of them.
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It doesn't bother me that much. Well except for not being able to knife.... thats just retarded.If I was new to this game I probably would quit. I can own up pubs with any class on alien or com/rine. That is why I still play albeit far less than I used to. Because sometimes its fun to go on a pub and be 40 and 2. Occaisonally I'll even com and try and teach people. These balance changes don't affect my pubbing at all. This is my contsructive criticism.
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Get this through your heads. It took me 30 minutes to adapt. I have no problems killing people on either rine or alien or comming.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showforum=20' target='_blank'>It's being written as we speak.</a> Still a WIP, but there should be some interesting threads there soon. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
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If I am wrong I welcome anyone to convince me otherwise. I would love to change my opinion. Basically what I'm getting from you guys is "the game is to new there is no way you can know these things yet" and I get the sense you don't like my attitude.
Barely anything was changed. If you knew 3.0 b5 well this one takes little time to learn. Anyway argue my points dont give me vague misgivings.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I have had some of the best games ever with the final version. Most games lasting over 20 minutes. Sesory is powerful, but not unstoppable. MT and teamwork seems to counter it ok. And it is so much fun picking off rambo marines as an alien. I think the Onos seems a little weak, but this allows for a better struggle between the aliens and marines. Yesterday and today I played in two 70 minute plus games and it is the most fun I have had since the 2.x days. The great epic NS games have returned!
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I would never argue that you can't have fun games. NS is a brilliant concept.
Awesome Job Devs!!!!!!!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: These games were on Public Servers.