<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 22 2005, 01:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 22 2005, 01:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm, I agree with you that the biases are existant on both sides.
The fact that you are proud to be a Mormon says that you have the courage to show your faith, which is a good thing.
But blind faith is a dangerous thing. Even Peter doubted and denied Christ 3 times.
Examine what you believe, if its worth believing it's worth examining. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> when peter denied christ three times it may not have been because he was a coward. after all this is the same peter who in the garden hacked off a roman soldiers ear.... thats pretty brave. I think he needed to deny christ so he could survive (seeing how he becomes the corner stone of the church) so I don't think the reason peter denied christ was because of fear
and about that website. I'm still looking threw it, I'm trying to do some double checks to make sure its accurate but what makes it not look good is the fact that it's not endoresed by the authorities in the church. any member can be led astray, but the prophet can't lead the church astray without being smitten down by god. so I'm still checking that out
<!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Feb 22 2005, 01:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Feb 22 2005, 01:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Right now most everyone here seems to believe that mormons are self-rightous people that think there better then others. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You appear to be... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A bit harsh, he's only 17, and I have to say, I've been in flame wars far harsher than with him with those older by quite a few years.
Either way, know that the path you follow is a questionable one for joy and happiness, from my knowledge, Mormons have a higher rate of depression for a reason.
In the end, best of luck, and I hope you believe what you believe because it personally touches you, not because its shoved to you and because your afraid of upsetting your family or "friends".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but the prophet can't lead the church astray without being smitten down by god<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How can this not sound like a cult to you?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and about your wayword son sir. I'm sorry that he is being confused and is having troubles with his body. but I know for a fact that he was not born to be homosexual. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know for a fact that ignorance leads to needless suffering. Explain to me in your wisdom what a hermaphrodite is born to be again?
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 22 2005, 01:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 22 2005, 01:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but the prophet can't lead the church astray without being smitten down by god<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How can this not sound like a cult to you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> do you know what the deffinition of a cult is? let me inlighten you
cult n 1 : formal religious veneration 2 : a religious system; also : its adherents 3 : faddish devotion; also : a group of persons showing such devotion -- cult*ist n
so yes, every church is a cult smart one...geeze, crack open a dictionary every now and then
<!--QuoteBegin-FilthyLarry+Feb 22 2005, 01:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FilthyLarry @ Feb 22 2005, 01:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and about your wayword son sir. I'm sorry that he is being confused and is having troubles with his body. but I know for a fact that he was not born to be homosexual. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know for a fact that ignorance leads to needless suffering. Explain to me in your wisdom what a hermaphrodite is born to be again? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> when a hermaphrodite is born, not both the organs work, out of all the studies I've read about I've never heard of both the **** and the **** being functional, only one of them is.
So. Are you going to answer me as to how you can advocate letting people believe what they want without having to listen to me and my anti-OT God arguments:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you don't like the old testiment god (even tho he's allways been the same god) then just don't bother with him. and don't worry bout something that doesn't exist. and let the rightous get on with their good lives<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet, at the same time support mormons (your own damn church dude!) going door to door and annoying people with their drivel?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yeah, but truth is allso recieved via revelation. so you can't figure everything out in the universe on your own. you need faith as well as knowledge <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Never said you figured everything out on your own. No no, you twist my words.
Examination is done through reason, and question. Not saying you do this on your own, but it is part of it.
For example, if I have a question I may ask a few trusted friends for an answer, or I may go and do the research myself.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 22 2005, 01:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 22 2005, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yeah, but truth is allso recieved via revelation. so you can't figure everything out in the universe on your own. you need faith as well as knowledge <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Never said you figured everything out on your own. No no, you twist my words.
Examination is done through reason, and question. Not saying you do this on your own, but it is part of it.
For example, if I have a question I may ask a few trusted friends for an answer, or I may go and do the research myself.
The best would be to do both. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> oh I wasn't implying that you thought that. I was just saying that doing both was a good idea. that may have come out wrong.
and to skulkbait..... Missionaries are just trying to share something that has imporved their lives with you. you are just trying to make people who believe in stuff not believe in it. does hating an old testiment god make your life better? does hating anyone make your life better?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and to skulkbait..... Missionaries are just trying to share something that has imporved their lives with you. you are just trying to make people who believe in stuff not believe in it. does hating an old testiment god make your life better? does hating anyone make your life better? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, because I'm not inclined to believe that the world was created 6,000 years ago or other such nonsense. I feel that it is important for people to live their lives without believing blindly in such fiction so I spread the good, just like your missionaries.
Do you know what it took to get those damned mormons to stop coming back? Even after we asked them politely? I threatened to break their legs with a nine iron. It took the threat of physical violence to get your missionaries to realise that I don't want to share the in the fiction that has made their lives "better".
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 22 2005, 01:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 22 2005, 01:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and to skulkbait..... Missionaries are just trying to share something that has imporved their lives with you. you are just trying to make people who believe in stuff not believe in it. does hating an old testiment god make your life better? does hating anyone make your life better? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, because I'm not inclined to believe that the world was created 6,000 years ago or other such nonsense. I feel that it is important for people to live their lives without believing blindly in such fiction so I spread the good, just like your missionaries.
Do you know what it took to get those damned mormons to stop coming back? Even after we asked them politely? I threatened to break their legs with a nine iron. It took the threat of physical violence to get your missionaries to realise that I don't want to share the in the fiction that has made their lives "better". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> telemarkets recieve 100's of deaththreats all the time... yet they keep calling, and I don't hear you complaining about people trying to sell you a long distence phone plan and not trying to save your soul.
Oh wow thats funny. (edit: the part about the 9 iron)
But they do it because that its if they don't that hell is a very likely possiblity.
Now again, I'm a bit rusty here on Mormons, but here it goes:
They believe quite a few things that are different than the Catholic or Protestant church that we commonly associate with Christianity.
One thing is where in revelations where it says 144,000 (or something like that) will enter heaven and such after the Armageddon is a literal statement.
Yes thats right, they believe there is only a certain amount of seats in heaven. I think (again foggy) that there is a like different slots too (like bleacher seats, upper deck etc) in Heaven as well.
So in large part, they do what they do because if they don't earn a right to one of those seats they're screwed.
In a way they're competing with each other. Its a bit odd.
Edit: THis is Jehovah's witnesses I believe, not Mormons.
thats not true. I know of a religion that believes in X amount of people in heaven but thats not the LDS belief. I'm not sure if its the jahova witnesses that believe in that or not. but I know for a fact that thats not the belief in the LDS faith.
we have what we call a "plan of salvation" where everyone can be saved... having a limited amount of people that small would be more of a "plan of Damnation" to me
<a href='http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1294-1,00.html' target='_blank'>here's a brief expination</a>
see. it says that ALL people who accecpt. theres no limit amount of number there.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> telemarkets recieve 100's of deaththreats all the time... yet they keep calling, and I don't hear you complaining about people trying to sell you a long distence phone plan and not trying to save your soul. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I do complain about such things. Who doesn't? Its annoying as hell. And yes, I have threatened the lives of telemarketers, but they keep calling because they are driven to do so by a more powerfull god, the Almighty Dollar.
Missionaries are very similar to telemarketers, the only difference is that I've learned you can make missionaries shut up if you threaten to kick their ****.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> thats not true. I know of a religion that believes in X amount of people in heaven but thats not the LDS belief. I'm not sure if its the jahova witnesses that believe in that or not. but I know for a fact that thats not the belief in the LDS faith.
we have what we call a "plan of salvation" where everyone can be saved... having a limited amount of people that small would be more of a "plan of Damnation" to me <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ahh okay, jehova witnesses... that may be it.
I have to call up one of my buddies, they'll clarify it.
But the depression thing is true though. Distinctly remember reading how Marie Osmond was sufferring from it and how Mormons have a higher rate of depression than the national average. Odd article.
<!--QuoteBegin-Fat Man Little Coat+Feb 22 2005, 01:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fat Man Little Coat @ Feb 22 2005, 01:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> But the depression thing is true though. Distinctly remember reading how Marie Osmond was sufferring from it and how Mormons have a higher rate of depression than the national average. Odd article. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if you could find that artical that'd be really interesting to read. I myself being a mormon (and not a depressed one at that) would be interesting in being aware of such a case. I don't want to become depressed (I mean who does)
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 18 2005, 12:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 18 2005, 12:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In today's society not only is homosexuality tolerated, but becoming widely accepted way of life. How was it that only a couple generations ago, peoples standards didn't allow that kind of thing and now this... what I fear is that if its homosexuality that’s being accepted today, what will we be willing to accept tomorrow? Some prisoners claim that they were made to be turned on by small children, and so that’s why they molest and rape them... so are we going to say "hey he's right. He should be able to do that its his choice!" and once again. We will compromise morals and ethics and become a little sicker as a human race. I just pray that day will never come and that people will come to their senses about this very serious issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry everyone, I haven't read this thread at all yet, but just looking at this made me laugh. I'm sure this has been rebutted, but people never seem to remember the rebuttals.
<b>Homosexuality != Deviant Lifestyle Homosexuality != Pedophilia in any shape or form Homosexuals != Sexual Abused Member of Society Homosexuality != Morally Wrong Homosexuality = Different than Accepted Traditions = Unaccepted by Traditionalists Homosexuality = Normal trait that has gone back thousands of years, probably back to the dawn of human evolution (ask the ancient greek armies what they thought about homosexuality; it was encouraged a way of building brotherhood between the men at best, and tolerated or ignored at worst) Homosexuality = Prevalent among some animal species</b>
I would say that religious tripe such as this is significantly more damaging to the moral fiber of society (and the human race as a whole) than homosexuality is, or ever will be.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Missionaries are just trying to share something that has imporved their lives with you. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Great, what if they don't want to beleive in whatever improved those missionaries lives?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you are just trying to make people who believe in stuff not believe in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And the missionaries are just trying to make people who don't beleive and don't want to beleive, beleive!
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->does hating anyone make your life better?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No. Then why do you hate homosexuals? I'd say it's safe to say that anything considered evil is to be hated by whoever consideres it as such. Tell me if I'm wrong and elaborate?
All you have done in this thread is try to priechthe morals that have been brainwashed into your head since you were young enough to understand what people were saying. Seriously man, question what has been tought to you! You have not raised one argument that isn't religiously derived in this entire thread. It appears to be all you either know, or choose to acknowlege.
You are blind to the world around you, open your eyes.
I think you have the mormons confused with a different group (Jehovah's Witnesses, I think), because I've never had mormons come over and harass me. I'm guessing <a href='http://www.pbs.org/americanprophet/joseph-smith.html' target='_blank'>this</a> is the mormon religion you're refering to?
I'm still not big on the whole 'Jews are evil for wanting to crucify Jesus' thing, since Jesus himself was Jewish (and I'll refuse to discuss it until someone can present me with an in-depth understanding of Islam, Christianity and Judaism). Plus it's not really relevant to a 'homosexuality is evil' discussion, so it'd be nice if you guys left the particular sect out of the discussion...
<!--QuoteBegin-Caboose+Feb 22 2005, 01:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Caboose @ Feb 22 2005, 01:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->does hating anyone make your life better?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No. Then why do you hate homosexuals? I'd say it's safe to say that anything considered evil is to be hated by whoever consideres it as such. Tell me if I'm wrong and elaborate? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> whoa whoa whoa buddy, when did I say I hated homosexuals? ever heard the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" thats what I believe. I don't think homosexuals are bad people , there just struggling with a problem. I want to help them , not kill/beat/genocide them.... lets just get that clear ok.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-FilthyLarry+Feb 22 2005, 01:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FilthyLarry @ Feb 22 2005, 01:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and about your wayword son sir. I'm sorry that he is being confused and is having troubles with his body. but I know for a fact that he was not born to be homosexual. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know for a fact that ignorance leads to needless suffering. Explain to me in your wisdom what a hermaphrodite is born to be again? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> when a hermaphrodite is born, not both the organs work, out of all the studies I've read about I've never heard of both the **** and the **** being functional, only one of them is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes but ovaries and testes can both be present, whether fully functional or not.
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> whoa whoa whoa buddy, when did I say I hated homosexuals? ever heard the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" thast what I believe. I don't think homosexuals are bad people , there just sturggling with a problem. I want to help them , not kill/beat/genocide them.... lets just get that clear ok. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If by "help them" you mean "suck all the happiness out of their lives and force them through psychotherepy to try and change a part of them that cannot be changed" then I suppose you're right.
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 22 2005, 01:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 22 2005, 01:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> whoa whoa whoa buddy, when did I say I hated homosexuals? ever heard the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" thast what I believe. I don't think homosexuals are bad people , there just sturggling with a problem. I want to help them , not kill/beat/genocide them.... lets just get that clear ok. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If by "help them" you mean "suck all the happiness out of their lives and force them through psychotherepy to try and change a part of them that cannot be changed" then I suppose you're right. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Quoted for truth. I hate both the sin and the sinner in situations such as this.
<!--QuoteBegin-FilthyLarry+Feb 22 2005, 01:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FilthyLarry @ Feb 22 2005, 01:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-FilthyLarry+Feb 22 2005, 01:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FilthyLarry @ Feb 22 2005, 01:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> and about your wayword son sir. I'm sorry that he is being confused and is having troubles with his body. but I know for a fact that he was not born to be homosexual. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know for a fact that ignorance leads to needless suffering. Explain to me in your wisdom what a hermaphrodite is born to be again? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> when a hermaphrodite is born, not both the organs work, out of all the studies I've read about I've never heard of both the **** and the **** being functional, only one of them is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes but ovaries and testes can both be present, whether fully functional or not.
My point here is that sexuality is not necessarily a "black and white" issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> actually it really is according to the proclimation to the family<a href='http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html' target='_blank'>here</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-SkulkBait+Feb 22 2005, 12:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SkulkBait @ Feb 22 2005, 12:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 01:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 01:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> whoa whoa whoa buddy, when did I say I hated homosexuals? ever heard the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" thast what I believe. I don't think homosexuals are bad people , there just sturggling with a problem. I want to help them , not kill/beat/genocide them.... lets just get that clear ok. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If by "help them" you mean "suck all the happiness out of their lives and force them through psychotherepy to try and change a part of them that cannot be changed" then I suppose you're right. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I couldn't have said it better, I tryed saying that earlier too...
Comments
The fact that you are proud to be a Mormon says that you have the courage to show your faith, which is a good thing.
But blind faith is a dangerous thing. Even Peter doubted and denied Christ 3 times.
Examine what you believe, if its worth believing it's worth examining. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
when peter denied christ three times it may not have been because he was a coward. after all this is the same peter who in the garden hacked off a roman soldiers ear.... thats pretty brave. I think he needed to deny christ so he could survive (seeing how he becomes the corner stone of the church) so I don't think the reason peter denied christ was because of fear
and about that website. I'm still looking threw it, I'm trying to do some double checks to make sure its accurate but what makes it not look good is the fact that it's not endoresed by the authorities in the church. any member can be led astray, but the prophet can't lead the church astray without being smitten down by god. so I'm still checking that out
You appear to be... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
A bit harsh, he's only 17, and I have to say, I've been in flame wars far harsher than with him with those older by quite a few years.
Either way, know that the path you follow is a questionable one for joy and happiness, from my knowledge, Mormons have a higher rate of depression for a reason.
In the end, best of luck, and I hope you believe what you believe because it personally touches you, not because its shoved to you and because your afraid of upsetting your family or "friends".
Examination can lead to truth.
How can this not sound like a cult to you?
I know for a fact that ignorance leads to needless suffering. Explain to me in your wisdom what a hermaphrodite is born to be again?
How can this not sound like a cult to you? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
do you know what the deffinition of a cult is? let me inlighten you
cult n 1 : formal religious veneration 2 : a religious system; also : its adherents 3 : faddish devotion; also : a group of persons showing such devotion -- cult*ist n
so yes, every church is a cult smart one...geeze, crack open a dictionary every now and then
I know for a fact that ignorance leads to needless suffering. Explain to me in your wisdom what a hermaphrodite is born to be again? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
when a hermaphrodite is born, not both the organs work, out of all the studies I've read about I've never heard of both the **** and the **** being functional, only one of them is.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you don't like the old testiment god (even tho he's allways been the same god) then just don't bother with him. and don't worry bout something that doesn't exist. and let the rightous get on with their good lives<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet, at the same time support mormons (your own damn church dude!) going door to door and annoying people with their drivel?
Never said you figured everything out on your own. No no, you twist my words.
Examination is done through reason, and question. Not saying you do this on your own, but it is part of it.
For example, if I have a question I may ask a few trusted friends for an answer, or I may go and do the research myself.
The best would be to do both.
Never said you figured everything out on your own. No no, you twist my words.
Examination is done through reason, and question. Not saying you do this on your own, but it is part of it.
For example, if I have a question I may ask a few trusted friends for an answer, or I may go and do the research myself.
The best would be to do both. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
oh I wasn't implying that you thought that. I was just saying that doing both was a good idea. that may have come out wrong.
and to skulkbait..... Missionaries are just trying to share something that has imporved their lives with you. you are just trying to make people who believe in stuff not believe in it. does hating an old testiment god make your life better? does hating anyone make your life better?
Yes, because I'm not inclined to believe that the world was created 6,000 years ago or other such nonsense. I feel that it is important for people to live their lives without believing blindly in such fiction so I spread the good, just like your missionaries.
Do you know what it took to get those damned mormons to stop coming back? Even after we asked them politely? I threatened to break their legs with a nine iron. It took the threat of physical violence to get your missionaries to realise that I don't want to share the in the fiction that has made their lives "better".
Yes, because I'm not inclined to believe that the world was created 6,000 years ago or other such nonsense. I feel that it is important for people to live their lives without believing blindly in such fiction so I spread the good, just like your missionaries.
Do you know what it took to get those damned mormons to stop coming back? Even after we asked them politely? I threatened to break their legs with a nine iron. It took the threat of physical violence to get your missionaries to realise that I don't want to share the in the fiction that has made their lives "better". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
telemarkets recieve 100's of deaththreats all the time... yet they keep calling, and I don't hear you complaining about people trying to sell you a long distence phone plan and not trying to save your soul.
But they do it because that its if they don't that hell is a very likely possiblity.
Now again, I'm a bit rusty here on Mormons, but here it goes:
They believe quite a few things that are different than the Catholic or Protestant church that we commonly associate with Christianity.
One thing is where in revelations where it says 144,000 (or something like that) will enter heaven and such after the Armageddon is a literal statement.
Yes thats right, they believe there is only a certain amount of seats in heaven. I think (again foggy) that there is a like different slots too (like bleacher seats, upper deck etc) in Heaven as well.
So in large part, they do what they do because if they don't earn a right to one of those seats they're screwed.
In a way they're competing with each other. Its a bit odd.
Edit: THis is Jehovah's witnesses I believe, not Mormons.
we have what we call a "plan of salvation" where everyone can be saved... having a limited amount of people that small would be more of a "plan of Damnation" to me
<a href='http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1294-1,00.html' target='_blank'>here's a brief expination</a>
see. it says that ALL people who accecpt. theres no limit amount of number there.
I do complain about such things. Who doesn't? Its annoying as hell. And yes, I have threatened the lives of telemarketers, but they keep calling because they are driven to do so by a more powerfull god, the Almighty Dollar.
Missionaries are very similar to telemarketers, the only difference is that I've learned you can make missionaries shut up if you threaten to kick their ****.
we have what we call a "plan of salvation" where everyone can be saved... having a limited amount of people that small would be more of a "plan of Damnation" to me <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh okay, jehova witnesses... that may be it.
I have to call up one of my buddies, they'll clarify it.
But the depression thing is true though. Distinctly remember reading how Marie Osmond was sufferring from it and how Mormons have a higher rate of depression than the national average. Odd article.
if you could find that artical that'd be really interesting to read. I myself being a mormon (and not a depressed one at that) would be interesting in being aware of such a case. I don't want to become depressed (I mean who does)
I'm sorry everyone, I haven't read this thread at all yet, but just looking at this made me laugh. I'm sure this has been rebutted, but people never seem to remember the rebuttals.
<b>Homosexuality != Deviant Lifestyle
Homosexuality != Pedophilia in any shape or form
Homosexuals != Sexual Abused Member of Society
Homosexuality != Morally Wrong
Homosexuality = Different than Accepted Traditions = Unaccepted by Traditionalists
Homosexuality = Normal trait that has gone back thousands of years, probably back to the dawn of human evolution (ask the ancient greek armies what they thought about homosexuality; it was encouraged a way of building brotherhood between the men at best, and tolerated or ignored at worst)
Homosexuality = Prevalent among some animal species</b>
I would say that religious tripe such as this is significantly more damaging to the moral fiber of society (and the human race as a whole) than homosexuality is, or ever will be.
Great, what if they don't want to beleive in whatever improved those missionaries lives?
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you are just trying to make people who believe in stuff not believe in it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the missionaries are just trying to make people who don't beleive and don't want to beleive, beleive!
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->does hating anyone make your life better?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. Then why do you hate homosexuals? I'd say it's safe to say that anything considered evil is to be hated by whoever consideres it as such. Tell me if I'm wrong and elaborate?
All you have done in this thread is try to priechthe morals that have been brainwashed into your head since you were young enough to understand what people were saying. Seriously man, question what has been tought to you! You have not raised one argument that isn't religiously derived in this entire thread. It appears to be all you either know, or choose to acknowlege.
You are blind to the world around you, open your eyes.
here's a start
You know what?
Thats jehovah's witness again
Damn. I got them mixed up. interesting.
I'm still not big on the whole 'Jews are evil for wanting to crucify Jesus' thing, since Jesus himself was Jewish (and I'll refuse to discuss it until someone can present me with an in-depth understanding of Islam, Christianity and Judaism). Plus it's not really relevant to a 'homosexuality is evil' discussion, so it'd be nice if you guys left the particular sect out of the discussion...
<!--QuoteBegin-AvengerX+Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AvengerX @ Feb 22 2005, 12:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->does hating anyone make your life better?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. Then why do you hate homosexuals? I'd say it's safe to say that anything considered evil is to be hated by whoever consideres it as such. Tell me if I'm wrong and elaborate?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
whoa whoa whoa buddy, when did I say I hated homosexuals? ever heard the phrase "love the sinner, hate the sin" thats what I believe. I don't think homosexuals are bad people , there just struggling with a problem. I want to help them , not kill/beat/genocide them.... lets just get that clear ok.
I know for a fact that ignorance leads to needless suffering. Explain to me in your wisdom what a hermaphrodite is born to be again? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when a hermaphrodite is born, not both the organs work, out of all the studies I've read about I've never heard of both the **** and the **** being functional, only one of them is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but ovaries and testes can both be present, whether fully functional or not.
<a href='http://www.mindfully.org/Health/In-Vitro-Chimeric-Hermaphrodite.htm' target='_blank'>Article</a>
My point here is that sexuality is not necessarily a "black and white" issue.
If by "help them" you mean "suck all the happiness out of their lives and force them through psychotherepy to try and change a part of them that cannot be changed" then I suppose you're right.
Whenever someone brings up hermaphodites I get off the bus.
Goodnight everybody!
If by "help them" you mean "suck all the happiness out of their lives and force them through psychotherepy to try and change a part of them that cannot be changed" then I suppose you're right. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quoted for truth. I hate both the sin and the sinner in situations such as this.
I know for a fact that ignorance leads to needless suffering. Explain to me in your wisdom what a hermaphrodite is born to be again? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when a hermaphrodite is born, not both the organs work, out of all the studies I've read about I've never heard of both the **** and the **** being functional, only one of them is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but ovaries and testes can both be present, whether fully functional or not.
<a href='http://www.mindfully.org/Health/In-Vitro-Chimeric-Hermaphrodite.htm' target='_blank'>Article</a>
My point here is that sexuality is not necessarily a "black and white" issue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
actually it really is according to the proclimation to the family<a href='http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,161-1-11-1,00.html' target='_blank'>here</a>
it is
If by "help them" you mean "suck all the happiness out of their lives and force them through psychotherepy to try and change a part of them that cannot be changed" then I suppose you're right. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I couldn't have said it better, I tryed saying that earlier too...