Issue: Team Morale (long)
Xentor
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5877Members
Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5877Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Basic Gameplay Structure</div> Ok, first, before anyone flames me for complaining, I just want to say that this is a GREAT mod. I'm not whining about an imbalance or minor issue, but rather trying to make the game even better through a little criticism.
That being said, one of the main problems I've been seeing on public, mostly newbie servers (i.e. people who just started playing after halloween, not betatesters) is the team balancing. Now, I know this is going to be fixed shortly, but it's just a symptom of what seems to be a more serious issue.
Think of this situation. You're playing as an alien. The marines have beaten back your assaults and taken over two of the hive rooms. Your only choices are Skulk, Gorge, and Lerk, and the marines are coming after you with HA and HMGs, fully upgraded. They're taking their time and moving slowly and systematically, one room at a time. You KNOW your team has already lost, and you're getting more and more frustrated, banging up against a wall of turrets anywhere you go. You wish that they'd just finish the round... Just get it over with...
No, I'm not complaining about marines being too powerful. I've seen both teams completely dominate, and that's really not the issue. This situation could just as easily be reversed, with you and your LMG going up against upgraded Onos's as they raid your command post.
On servers with new players, this usually has a devastating effect on the game in general. First, any newcomers tend to join the winning team (Again, I realize this will be fixed in the patch). Second, the losing team starts to get frustrated, and either switch teams or leave. I've seen this many times... No one wants to sit around and keep playing when they KNOW they're going to lose.
Now, as to the cause of the problem... Unlike basic deathmatch or team-based strategy mods such as TFC or CS, NS is based on a completely different play model. NS is an RTS played from a first-person perspective, with the strategies centering on infrastructure and expansion, not merely on killing your opponents.
In basic combat scenarios, the chance of winning a particular battle has little to do with past battles. Even in CS, where money is an issue, the game is balanced such that lighter weapons can still prevail against expensive rifles.
In an RTS model, the strength of a team is directly linked to the strength of their infrastructure. As one team gains a slight infrastructure advantage, say an extra resource or slightly better upgrades, it is now easier for them to further increase their advantage. As they press forward, they become stronger and stronger, and the enemy becomes weaker by comparison. After a certain point, their victory is almost assured, and this becomes VERY evident for the losing team.
This isn't technically unique to NS, since every RTS is structured in this manner. The difference is that NS puts you INSIDE the RTS, not just floating above the battlefield (With the marine commander as an exception). If you're playing Starcraft or Red Alert, and you're backed into a corner, you just keep pumping out units as fast as you can, and start sending desperation attacks and kamikaze-type raids at the enemy, and each unit is just another weapon. In NS, you're spawning, evolving or equipping (If possible), and going to your death, only to sit out for 10-20 seconds and do it again. It's a much more personal experience, and much more frustrating.
Now, I don't know if there really is a solution to this type of problem. The only mod I've played with a vaguely similar issue is Science and Industry. That mod runs through a tech tree on each team and uses scientists as "resources", and the same kind of thing happens. One team gets an advantage, gets better weapons and upgrades, and beats the #@%^(#@ out of the other team. The SI team solved it by giving the losing team ways to catch up, such as a speed-boost when capturing enemy scientists, and the ability to steal enemy weapons for a research boost. They tweaked speeds and strengths to make it a little more difficult to gain more ground when you're already ahead. Now, that works well for THAT mod, but the goal of NS is victory, not merely a higher score at the end of the map time, so this solution wouldn't apply exactly. Still, it's something to think about.
So ANYWAY... I hope, through my ranting and sidetracking, I've made my point somewhere in this long post. I don't have a real solution, nor do I know if a solution is really wanted or necessary. I just wanted to make sure people understand what's going on. It seems to me that a lot of the "The ___ is too powerful!" arguments are caused by this very basic issue, and I'd like to see what everyone thinks...
And just to reiterate... This is a &!#%^#ing GREAT mod, and the team has done an AMAZING job on it. I'm not trying to put it down, just make it even better... Ok, flame away people <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
That being said, one of the main problems I've been seeing on public, mostly newbie servers (i.e. people who just started playing after halloween, not betatesters) is the team balancing. Now, I know this is going to be fixed shortly, but it's just a symptom of what seems to be a more serious issue.
Think of this situation. You're playing as an alien. The marines have beaten back your assaults and taken over two of the hive rooms. Your only choices are Skulk, Gorge, and Lerk, and the marines are coming after you with HA and HMGs, fully upgraded. They're taking their time and moving slowly and systematically, one room at a time. You KNOW your team has already lost, and you're getting more and more frustrated, banging up against a wall of turrets anywhere you go. You wish that they'd just finish the round... Just get it over with...
No, I'm not complaining about marines being too powerful. I've seen both teams completely dominate, and that's really not the issue. This situation could just as easily be reversed, with you and your LMG going up against upgraded Onos's as they raid your command post.
On servers with new players, this usually has a devastating effect on the game in general. First, any newcomers tend to join the winning team (Again, I realize this will be fixed in the patch). Second, the losing team starts to get frustrated, and either switch teams or leave. I've seen this many times... No one wants to sit around and keep playing when they KNOW they're going to lose.
Now, as to the cause of the problem... Unlike basic deathmatch or team-based strategy mods such as TFC or CS, NS is based on a completely different play model. NS is an RTS played from a first-person perspective, with the strategies centering on infrastructure and expansion, not merely on killing your opponents.
In basic combat scenarios, the chance of winning a particular battle has little to do with past battles. Even in CS, where money is an issue, the game is balanced such that lighter weapons can still prevail against expensive rifles.
In an RTS model, the strength of a team is directly linked to the strength of their infrastructure. As one team gains a slight infrastructure advantage, say an extra resource or slightly better upgrades, it is now easier for them to further increase their advantage. As they press forward, they become stronger and stronger, and the enemy becomes weaker by comparison. After a certain point, their victory is almost assured, and this becomes VERY evident for the losing team.
This isn't technically unique to NS, since every RTS is structured in this manner. The difference is that NS puts you INSIDE the RTS, not just floating above the battlefield (With the marine commander as an exception). If you're playing Starcraft or Red Alert, and you're backed into a corner, you just keep pumping out units as fast as you can, and start sending desperation attacks and kamikaze-type raids at the enemy, and each unit is just another weapon. In NS, you're spawning, evolving or equipping (If possible), and going to your death, only to sit out for 10-20 seconds and do it again. It's a much more personal experience, and much more frustrating.
Now, I don't know if there really is a solution to this type of problem. The only mod I've played with a vaguely similar issue is Science and Industry. That mod runs through a tech tree on each team and uses scientists as "resources", and the same kind of thing happens. One team gets an advantage, gets better weapons and upgrades, and beats the #@%^(#@ out of the other team. The SI team solved it by giving the losing team ways to catch up, such as a speed-boost when capturing enemy scientists, and the ability to steal enemy weapons for a research boost. They tweaked speeds and strengths to make it a little more difficult to gain more ground when you're already ahead. Now, that works well for THAT mod, but the goal of NS is victory, not merely a higher score at the end of the map time, so this solution wouldn't apply exactly. Still, it's something to think about.
So ANYWAY... I hope, through my ranting and sidetracking, I've made my point somewhere in this long post. I don't have a real solution, nor do I know if a solution is really wanted or necessary. I just wanted to make sure people understand what's going on. It seems to me that a lot of the "The ___ is too powerful!" arguments are caused by this very basic issue, and I'd like to see what everyone thinks...
And just to reiterate... This is a &!#%^#ing GREAT mod, and the team has done an AMAZING job on it. I'm not trying to put it down, just make it even better... Ok, flame away people <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
I'd say faster respawn rates for the losing team would be the best way to go without totally ruining gameplay, with the easiest amount of programming. I mean, if the ideas were limitless, I could go on and on about map effects changing to the loser's advantage, but blaw.
I think the main problem is that when aliens are down to their last couple bases, they are screwed, utterly screwed, no chances of survival. But when the Marines are down to their last base, they can last a long freaking time before going down. This happens everytime aliens are about to win a mid to late game. I blame the spawn time, it could make a huge difference. But grenade spamming their own bases is probably a huge factor as well.