U.n. Blue Helmets=rapist/pedophiles

SpoogeSpooge Thunderbolt missile in your cheerios Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 67Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Situation Normal?</div> <a href='http://abcnews.go.com/2020/UnitedNations/story?id=489306&page=1' target='_blank'>ABC News - "U.N. Sex Crimes in Congo"</a>

<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NEW YORK, Feb. 10, 2005 — Widespread allegations of sexual exploitation and abuse of Congolese women, boys and girls have been made against U.N. personnel who were sent to help and protect them — despite a so-called zero tolerance policy touted by the United Nations toward such behavior.

The range of sexual abuse includes reported rapes of young Congolese girls by U.N. troops; an Internet pedophile ring run from Congo by Didier Bourguet, a senior U.N. official from France; a colonel from South Africa accused of molesting his teenage male translators; and estimates of hundreds of underage girls having babies fathered by U.N. soldiers who have been able to simply leave their children and their crimes behind.

Ravaged by decades of civil war, and one of the poorest countries in the world, Congo has relied on the United Nations for both military protection and humanitarian aid.

"The U.N. is there for their protection, so when the protectors become violators, this is particularly egregious," said Anneke Van Woudenberg, a senior researcher with Human Rights Watch who investigated the allegations on behalf of her organization. "This is particularly bad."

William Swing, a former U.S. ambassador to Congo who now heads the U.N. peacekeeping mission there, admitted the sexual crimes were a black mark on the United Nations.

"It pains us all," he said. "It's absolutely odious. And we're determined to wipe it out."

But Swing said the problem was just recently brought to his attention, and that only a small percentage of the 11,000 U.N. personnel in Congo were involved.

"A few people have managed to basically cause disgrace for the mission and for the U.N., and that's why we're determined to conquer it. I have sent a dozen home," Swing said. But human rights investigators have reported a far wider, even systemic problem, recording more than 150 allegations against U.N. employees in Congo.

And there is what human rights investigators have called "survival sex."
We have heard cases where they have traded eggs for sex or bread for sex or a jar of peanut butter for sex," said Van Woudenberg. "These are not people who have very much. So they hang around the outskirts of these U.N. bases in order to try and get a handout, a little food. Maybe they can sell some bananas or some peanuts. And it has become not uncommon that peacekeepers invite these girls in — and of course the younger the better, because there's less chance that they will be infected by HIV/AIDS."

The United Nations has documented cases where this has happened to girls as young as 11, according to Van Woudenberg.

Breaking Curfew

Paying for sex, with food or cash, is strictly prohibited by U.N. rules. And even being in a place where prostitutes are available is supposedly prohibited by the U.N. Code of Conduct.

The United Nations said its crackdown on sex crimes includes a tough dusk-to-dawn curfew for U.N. personnel soldiers and a midnight deadline for civilian employees.

But at Café Doga, in the eastern town of Bunia, ABC News cameras caught a group of U.N. peacekeepers well after the curfew, partaking in drinks, dancing at a bar filled with prostitutes, and later loading several of the prostitutes into U.N. vehicles and driving away.

Swing said he had been unaware of such U.N. fraternization with prostitutes. "Well, perhaps my senior management there wasn't aware of it, and I will find out right away," he said. And when it was pointed out that several of the senior management were in fact leaving at the same time U.N. personnel left with the prostitutes, Swing responded, "I will look into it. It's not yet where we want to be but we will get there, I promise you."

U.N. peacekeeping troops first came to Congo five years ago to stop a raging border war, and the first reports of sex crimes began within a year of their arrival.

Men from roughly 50 different countries make up the U.N. forces in Congo, and the United Nations does not conduct background checks. Furthermore, U.N. troops are exempt from prosecution in Congo.

A contingent of South African troops was removed from Congo after numerous allegations of sex crimes against them. South African Lt. Col. Koos van Breda, accused of sexually molesting his teenage male translator, is now home awaiting trial in military court.

Crime and Punishment?

Congolese officials say scores of young girls in Congo were lured into sex with a senior U.N. logistics officer named Didier Bourguet, a French citizen who photographed his victims having sex with him. In one photo, on Bourguet's hard drive, which was obtained by ABC News, a tear can be seen rolling down the cheek of a victim.

Congolese officials suspect Bourguet was sharing these computer images with others in the United Nations, but he was sent back to France to face prosecution before a full investigation could be completed. He is currently in French custody awaiting trial.

"He is no longer a threat to the Congolese population," said Swing. "He's no longer effacing the image of the U.N. here. And I think it showed that we took it seriously."

Claude Deboosere-Lepidi, Bourguet's lawyer, said his client admits he was involved in systematic sexual involvement with minors that included other U.N. officials, and that the United Nations permitted an environment in which sex with young girls was tolerated.

Swing promised that the United Nations would make an effort to find the young women Bourguet photographed and include them in the U.N. victim support program. No such actions have yet been taken.

In fact, none of the victims interviewed for this story had received any help, of any kind, psychological or financial, from the United Nations.

A Culture of Fear

One 14-year-old girl from Bunia was on her way to the village well for water, local police said, when two blue-helmeted U.N. troops, from Morocco, stopped her. One of the soldiers raped her, she said.

"We know that these people came to bring peace to this country," Dieudonne Shabani, the victim's mother, told ABC News. "So how come the same men who come to bring peace are doing this to my daughter? It really revolted me."

The family took their devastated daughter to the police and a doctor from an aid group filed a rape report with the United Nations. The next day, the family said the Moroccan commander from the United Nations came and insulted them by offering money for the case to be dropped. Nothing has been heard since.

At this point, said the Rev. Alfred Buju, the town's Catholic priest, the people fear the U.N. personnel.

"They're saying even to young girls, be careful to not be taken by those peacekeepers," he said.

Buju had his own exposure to the U.N. problem when he said he witnessed two Pakistani U.N. troops sexually assault a teenage girl in a church convent one morning last spring. After filing a report with U.N. officials, he said he was promised that the two offending soldiers would be expelled from the U.N. mission. But one month ago, Buju said he saw one of the soldiers involved in the assault at a U.N. checkpoint 25 miles away.

No Child Left Behind?

Another gaping problem U.N. officials failed to address is the hundreds of babies born to Congolese women and fathered by U.N. personnel.

Aimee Tsesi, of Bunia, said her 15-year-old deaf mute daughter was raped and impregnated by a U.N. soldier from Uruguay, and that she was turned away at the gates of the U.N. camp when she went for assistance.

"The U.N. is not able to give me food or money for my grandson," she said. "But if the U.N. hadn't brought this soldier here my daughter would not have become pregnant. And I would not be going through this suffering."

"What's going to happen to those children?" Van Woudenberg asked. "These are not women who are likely to find a lot of support for their children. So this is creating a whole different level of problem in the Congo."

And as of now, the United Nations said it will not take direct responsibility for babies abandoned by its troops, though Swing said the mission is "currently looking at a way to have a clearer and more viable paternity policy."

On the issue of reducing sexual misconduct among U.N. peacekeepers, however, Swing took a vow of personal responsibility.

"When you have an issue as serious as sexual exploitation and abuse of poor people you're trying to help, the answer is no, one can never do enough," Swing said. "Did I do enough? No. Do I need to do more? Yes. And I will."

To date, of the hundreds of allegations of sex crimes involving U.N. personnel, only two have faced any kind of prosecution.

"There's a lot of good words being said and I think there's a lot of good will about trying to deal with this, but we're not seeing concrete actions," said Van Woudenberg. "If you rape someone you can go home and never have to face any kind of criminal prosecution or any kind of serious deterrent. "This is unacceptable. How can this go on?"<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Google searches bring up little other information but with some crafty wording I'm finding stories of the exact same thing happening in Bosnia just 4 years ago.

Strangely, I don't see anyone marching in the streets with flaming Kofi Annan caricatures crying for the Blue Helmet generals to be placed on trial.

So, do we think anything will come from this or is it Situation Normal All Fd Up?
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Comments

  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Members
    That does sound **** up, thought I'm not ready to give a judgement.
    We should cull the herd.
  • SpacerSpacer Invented dogs Join Date: 2003-05-02 Member: 16008Members
    Cull the herd?
    Like.. the UN?

    Strange, I have a ringing in my ears that sounds like "Leeaaague of Naaaations".
  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    It wouldn't surprise me if it were true. Let's face it, not everyone who joins an army is going to be a patriot upholding the finer values of their homeland. A number of them are going to be real <i>jerks</i>.

    All that matters is that they're weeded out and sentenced. Let's hope they're given a fair trial.
  • BurncycleBurncycle Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9759Members, NS1 Playtester
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Let's hope they're given a fair trial. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Then castrated <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    .....
    .....
    There's really nothing to say to this.... <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Feb 11 2005, 10:24 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Feb 11 2005, 10:24 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It wouldn't surprise me if it were true. Let's face it, not everyone who joins an army is going to be a patriot upholding the finer values of their homeland. A number of them are going to be real <i>jerks</i>.

    All that matters is that they're weeded out and sentenced. Let's hope they're given a fair trial. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I hope you’re this rational when debating about Abu Ghraib.

    Heh once again the UN is proving its worthlessness, no wait not even that, worthless organizations usually don't harm people, I think its becoming a negative institution.

    I would have no qualms if my country were to withdraw from it immediately, this article only reaffirms my conviction of dislike against the UN.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    This isn't surprising. In fact, it just confirms what I've read about scientific researchers abusing the natives they were studying.
  • NineteenNineteen Join Date: 2003-12-23 Member: 24701Members
    Horny guys seperated from their families and women need to have sex too, ask any prison inmate. The problem is when they start to indulge in their own sick fantasies and their is no authority to regulate it. I think they should PROVIDE their men with hookers, as bad as it sounds it keeps soldiers satisfied and women who decide it is something they would want to do or have no money can have the saftey of a government organization not some money hungry scumbag pimp.
  • SpacerSpacer Invented dogs Join Date: 2003-05-02 Member: 16008Members
    Wow, I'm reading all of your replies and... I'm guessing 80-90% of you don't know that this is just what happened to the League of Nations?
    It's useless because American makes it look weak. You want to invade Iraq? The UN says no, you're part of the UN, you can't just be like "Pfft, I'm gonna do it anyway". Also, what the hell? If some of the blue helmets are rapists, why does that mean you should abolish the UN. When those Iraq US war crimes and abuse started breaking out, where you like "Damn, we best disband the army"? No, you fire the rapists. Which is what the UN will do.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Spacer+Feb 11 2005, 10:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spacer @ Feb 11 2005, 10:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wow, I'm reading all of your replies and... I'm guessing 80-90% of you don't know that this is just what happened to the League of Nations?
    It's useless because American makes it look weak. You want to invade Iraq? The UN says no, you're part of the UN, you can't just be like "Pfft, I'm gonna do it anyway". Also, what the hell? If some of the blue helmets are rapists, why does that mean you should abolish the UN. When those Iraq US war crimes and abuse started breaking out, where you like "Damn, we best disband the army"? No, you fire the rapists. Which is what the UN will do. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You see if this were the only incident I wouldn't mind so much, but for the UN this is just one more skeleton in an already bulging closet.

    I never really liked the UN to begin with as far back as I can remember, but their stanch opposition to war in Iraq really ticked me off because the only reason they cared was to save their precious Oil for Food scandal from being uncovered.
    Of course the fact that it gets little or no outrage from the media also ticks me off, however FOX does cover the story from time to time, to spite their motives I applaud them for doing it.
  • LegatLegat Join Date: 2003-07-02 Member: 17868Members
    Well, reasa, the UN is an organisation and as such it has <i>members</i>.
    The organisation in itself does not fail or achieve in anything, its <i>members</i> do.
    And when we go on in this logic, than we see that the memebrs influence an organisation in favor of their own benefit, depending on their actual <i>influence</i> within the organisation. So if anything is wrong with the UN, than it is caused by its memberstates, most notably the ones that have founded it and the ones that are most influencial.
  • SnidelySnidely Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Feb 11 2005, 03:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Feb 11 2005, 03:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I hope you’re this rational when debating about Abu Ghraib.

    Heh once again the UN is proving its worthlessness, no wait not even that, worthless organizations usually don't harm people, I think its becoming a negative institution.

    I would have no qualms if my country were to withdraw from it immediately, this article only reaffirms my conviction of dislike against the UN. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually, yes. I feel the same way about abuses committed by the British Army, as well.

    I would have been more surprised if the all of the foreign forces in Iraq had acted in an upstanding manner.

    I think the UN should be scolded if it doesn't investigate these matters. Until then, I'll withhold judgement.
  • LegatLegat Join Date: 2003-07-02 Member: 17868Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think the UN should be scolded if it doesn't investigate these matters. Until then, I'll withhold judgement.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    They will investigate it. They will find these incidents to be "isolated cases" and sentence the personnell involved harshly, most likey the commanding offficers will be exchanged. Case closed.

    Like always.
  • SpoogeSpooge Thunderbolt missile in your cheerios Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 67Members
    More.

    <a href='http://abcnews.go.com/2020/UnitedNations/popup?id=481731' target='_blank'>A popup slideshow from ABC's video footage.</a>

    <a href='http://abcnews.go.com/2020/UnitedNations/' target='_blank'>ABCnews compiled list of stories</a>


    <a href='http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/081zxelz.asp?pg=1' target='_blank'>The Weekly Standard</a>

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->LAST MONTH A CLASSIFIED UNITED Nations report prompted Secretary General Kofi Annan to admit that U.N. peacekeepers and staff have sexually abused or exploited war refugees in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The worst of the 150 or so allegations of misconduct--some of them captured on videotape--include pedophilia, rape, and prostitution. While a U.N. investigation into the scandal continues, the organization has just suspended two more peacekeepers in neighboring Burundi over similar charges. The revelations come three years after another U.N. report found "widespread" evidence of sexual abuse of West African refugees.

    "The issue with the U.N. is that peacekeeping operations unfortunately seem to be doing the same thing that other militaries do," Gita Sahgal of Amnesty International told the Christian Science Monitor. "Even the guardians have to be guarded." That's not far off the mark. Various U.N. reports and interviews with humanitarian groups suggest that international peacekeeping missions are creating a predatory sexual culture among vulnerable refugees--from relief workers who demand sexual favors in exchange for food to U.N. troops who rape women at gunpoint.

    Allegations of sexual abuse or misconduct by U.N. staff stretch back at least a decade, to operations in Kosovo, Sierra Leone, Liberia, and Guinea. A 2001 report, released by the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and Save the Children, found that sexual violence against refugees in West Africa was endemic (though some of its findings were denied by a subsequent U.N. team). A year later a coalition of religious organizations sent a letter to Secretary of 
    State Colin Powell urging the United States to send more human rights monitors into Congo. The U.N. then introduced a "code of conduct" to help prevent future abuses, including prohibitions against sexual activity between staff and children and the exchange of money or food for sex.

    It now appears, however, that little has changed on the ground. The U.N. Mission in Congo (MONUC) employs about 10,800 peacekeepers from 50 countries, in addition to many civilian staff. Yet there is no independent oversight of U.N. operations in its refugee camps. For that matter, none of the international agencies in the country has U.N. authority to protect the civil rights of internal refugees. Almost a year after the MONUC office in Kindu sent a memo in August 2003 to its headquarters in Kinshasa, detailing suspicions of sexual exploitation, the London Independent discovered action still hadn't been taken.

    "We recognize that sexual exploitation and abuse is a problem in some missions," said Jane Holl Lute, a U.N. assistant secretary general, at a recent press conference. "It's obvious that the measures we've had in place have not been adequate." Relief organizations and human rights groups agree, describing as "urgent" the need to protect young girls from U.N. militia and staff. As Patrick Barbier, of Doctors Without Borders, told one newspaper: "It is clear that the necessary steps to protect the displaced population from violence and sexual exploitation have not been followed."

    Indeed, the international operation in Bunia, home to about 16,000 refugees, threatens to become another monument to U.N. paralysis and failure. Investigators describe a "significant, widespread and ongoing" pattern of abuse at the camp--an astonishing conclusion given that many women are afraid to report sexual violence against them. At least one senior official in charge of security in Bunia is implicated in the scandal, and U.N. peacekeepers allegedly have threatened investigators with retaliation. According to the Economist, a U.N. probe is even considering the possibility that MONUC has been infiltrated by "organized pedophiles who recruit their friends."

    The U.N. abuses are especially grievous in Congo, where sexual violence against women and children has been a weapon of war employed by most of the armies involved in the six-year-old conflict. Called "Africa's world war," it has involved militias from Angola, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Uganda, Rwanda, and Congo. Despite a peace agreement reached in 2002, the fighting continues: According to the International Rescue Committee, more than 31,000 civilians are dying a month from violence, disease, and famine; tens of thousands remain in refugee camps, mostly women and children. In Bunia alone, a U.N. Children's Fund (UNICEF) program has treated 2,000 victims of sexual violence in recent months.

    Kofi Annan has insisted on "zero tolerance" of sexual exploitation by peacekeepers, but U.N. rules apply only to U.N. employees; military personnel fall under the jurisdiction of their own governments. Only a few peacekeepers have been deported, and no U.N. staff have been charged with criminal activity.

    That's prompting tough talk from some U.S. officials about American assistance for U.N. peacekeeping missions. The United States will give $490 million next year to support about 62,000 military personnel and civilian police serving in 16 U.N. operations around the world. "Until the U.N. is willing to take decisive action and take responsibility for these acts, we should look seriously at the funding portion of the peace-keeping operations," says a foreign policy aide to Kansas Republican Sam Brownback, who serves on the Senate Appropriations Committee. "I don't know any other way to force Annan to pay attention."

    This latest U.N. episode, 
    piled on top of the ongoing Oil for Food scandal in Iraq, may help focus the mind. The sexual abuses committed, or ignored, by U.N. personnel violate the institution's Convention on the Rights of the Child, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and the principles enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. A 2002 U.N. report characterized the sexual exploitation issue as "a betrayal of trust as well as a catastrophic failure of protection."

    Peacekeepers as predators? It's difficult to see how another U.N. probe, proclamation, or committee report could reverse that perception anytime soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    <a href='http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42088' target='_blank'>World Net Daily</a>

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With the United Nations already under fire for the Oil-for-Food mega-scandal and other corruption, sensational allegations of rampant sexual exploitation and rape of young girls and women by the U.N.'s so-called "peacekeepers" and civilian staffers in the Congo is dragging the global body's reputation to an all-time low.

    In a new report referring to the widespread sex scandal as "the U.N.'s Abu Ghraib," the London Times provides some specific examples, including:
    <ul>
    </li><li>A French U.N. logistics expert in the Congo shot pornographic videos in his home, in which he had converted his bedroom into a photo studio for videotaping his sexual abuse of young girls. When police raided his home, the man was allegedly about to rape a 12-year-old girl sent to him in a law enforcement sting operation. As the Times reported, a senior Congolese police officer confirmed the bed was surrounded by large mirrors on three sides, with a remote control camera on the fourth side.

    </li><li>U.N. officials are worried that the scandal, which already has netted 150 allegations of sex crimes by U.N. staffers, will explode if the pornographic videos and photos, now on sale in Congo, becoming public
    "It would be a pretty big problem for the U.N. if these pictures come out," one senior official told the Times.

    </li><li>Two Russian pilots paid young girls with jars of mayonnaise and jam to have sex with them, the report adds.

    </li><li>U.N. "peacekeepers" from Morocco based in Kisangani – a secluded town on the Congo River – are notorious for impregnating local women and girls. In March, an international group probing the scandal found 82 women and girls had been made pregnant by Moroccan U.N. staffers and 59 others by Uruguayan staffers. One U.N. soldier accused of rape was apparently hidden in the barracks for a year.
    Congo's Minister of Defense Maj.-Gen. Jean Pierre Ondekane told a top U.N. official that all U.N. "peacekeepers" in Kisangani would be remember for would be "for running after little girls," the Times reported.

    </li><li>And at least two U.N. officials – a Ukrainian and a Canadian – have been forced to leave the African nation after getting local women pregnant.
    Most of the sexual abuse and exploitation, says the report, involves trading sex for money, food or jobs. However, some victims say they were raped, but later given food or money to make the incident appear to have been consensual – "rape disguised as prostitution."
    </li></ul>

    U.N. Under-Secretary-General for Peacekeeping Jean-Marie Guehenno told the London paper: "The fact that these things happened is a blot on us. It's awful. What is important is to get to the bottom of it and fight it and make sure that people who do that pay for what they have done."

    Despite the fact that the U.N.'s sexual code of conduct is prominently displayed on U.N. facilities Congo – forbidding sex with prostitutes or women under 18 – the U.N. continues to hand out free condoms to "peacekeepers" to protect them from AIDS.

    The U.N. has promised to investigate and prosecute the widespread allegations. But, as WND reported last month, the global organization is not known for its forthrightness and candor in such internal investigations. The agency has been criticized for ignoring evidence or wrongdoing in the past – including accusations of rape and murder by "peacekeepers."

    In fact, previous revelations of peacekeeping abuses have only been revealed by news organizations. Such was the case in Cambodia in the early 1990s and later in Somalia, Bosnia and Ethiopia.

    "I am afraid there is clear evidence that acts of gross misconduct have taken place," Secretary-General Kofi Annan admitted. "This is a shameful thing for the United Nations to have to say, and I am absolutely outraged by it."

    Annan said the allegations concerned a small number of U.N. personnel and promised to hold those involved accountable.

    "I have long made it clear that my attitude to sexual exploitation and abuse is one of zero tolerance, without exception, and I am determined to implement this policy in the most transparent manner," Annan said.

    But Jordan’s Prince Zeid Raad Al Hussein, a special adviser to Annan and who led one investigative team, said in a confidential report obtained by The Times: "The situation appears to be one of 'zero-compliance with zero-tolerance' throughout the mission."

    The new charges of rape and pedophilia by U.N. troops and workers in Congo are not the first scandal involving U.N. workers and troops in Africa.

    Former United Nations Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali's tenure was marked by scandalous charges that he played a leading role in supplying weapons to the Hutu regime that carried out a campaign of genocide against the Tutsi tribe in 1994.

    As minister of foreign affairs in Egypt, Boutros-Ghali facilitated an arms deal in 1990, which was to result in $26 million of mortar bombs, rocket launchers, grenades and ammunition being flown from Cairo to Rwanda. The arms were used by Hutus in attacks which led to up to a million deaths. The role of Boutros-Ghali, who was in charge at the U.N. when it turned its back on the killings in 1994, was revealed in a book by Linda Melvern. In "A People Betrayed: The Role of the West in Rwanda's Genocide," Boutros-Ghali admits his role in approving an initial $5.8 million arms deal in 1990, which led to Egypt supplying arms to Rwanda until 1992. He says he approved it because it was his job as foreign minister to sell weapons for Egypt.

    Back in 1997, there were reports Belgian U.N. troops roasted a Somali boy. A military court reportedly sentenced two paratroopers to a month in jail and a fine of 200 pounds for the offense.

    Another Belgian soldier reportedly forced a young Somali to eat pork, drink salt water and then eat his own vomit. Another sergeant was accused of murdering a Somali whom he was photographed urinating upon. Another child, accused of stealing food from the paratroopers' base, died after being locked in a storage container for 48 hours. Fifteen other members of the same regiment were investigated in 1995 for "acts of sadism and torture" against Somali civilians.

    The pattern of abuse was not confined to Belgian troops. Belgium was actually the third country in the peacekeeping group to charge troops with serious crimes against Somali citizens -- including rape, torture and murder. In 1995, a group of Canadian paratroopers were investigated for torturing a Somali to death and killing three others.

    Gruesome photos were published in a Milan magazine of Italian soldiers torturing a Somali youth and abusing and raping a Somali girl. Paratroopers claim they were specifically trained in methods of torture to aid interrogation. According to one witness, Italian soldiers tied a young Somali girl to the front of an armored personnel carrier and raped her while officers looked on.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Sounds to me like they've been "investigating" the "isolated cases" for more than a decade now.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Legat+Feb 12 2005, 04:53 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legat @ Feb 12 2005, 04:53 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, reasa, the UN is an organisation and as such it has <i>members</i>.
    The organisation in itself does not fail or achieve in anything, its <i>members</i> do.
    And when we go on in this logic, than we see that the memebrs influence an organisation in favor of their own benefit, depending on their actual <i>influence</i> within the organisation. So if anything is wrong with the UN, than it is caused by its memberstates, most notably the ones that have founded it and the ones that are most influencial. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Your absolutely right, instead of the US leaving the UN, we should kick France and Germany out for their horrendous scandal. After all it wasn’t the whole organization just a few bad apples.

    They can be replaced with Poland and...how about Brazil.

    Yea..I like that version of the UN better. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    I'm surprised that there have been no documented cases of American UN soldiers abusing refugees. You'd think people would be looking for it specifically. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • UltimaGeckoUltimaGecko hates endnotes Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16320Members
    I think problems like this could be sort of fixed by giving the UN a sort of sovereignty. Once troops apply to work for the UN they're no longer citizens of their home country (and thus can be prosecuted by the UN) until their term of services expires. Then the soldiers would take their actions a bit more seriously, and the UN could develop its own policies as to how members will be treated in specific illegal events.

    Plus, the UN would have its own 'army' then and its policies could actually be enforced. I doubt any country would willingly give up troops like that, though <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> .


    The UN basically is the League of Nations, it's pretty much just as powerless - it can just put on the big, scary sanctions to frighten agressors....BOOGEY BOOGEY BOOGEY! It would actually be effective if every country in the world were near the same size.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Bad idea. A standing army under the control of the UN - which really doesn't have any sort of "governing body" aside from the delegates that each nation sends, wouldn't do a whole lot more than volunteer troops. And there are way too many conflicts of interest in the UN for a standing army to be any more effective than the volunteers are now. See, the thing is that as long as UN funding is under the thumb of member states, nothing will ever prompt the UN to alienate their own constituents. And it certainly wouldn't address the abusive behavior of these so-called peacekeepers.
  • Deus_Ex_MachinaDeus_Ex_Machina Join Date: 2004-07-01 Member: 29674Members
    edited February 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Feb 12 2005, 01:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Feb 12 2005, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never really liked the UN to begin with as far back as I can remember, but their stanch opposition to war in Iraq really ticked me off because the only reason they cared was to save their precious Oil for Food scandal from being uncovered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, it's not like they had any opposition to it because their inspectors hadn't found those pesky WMDs. Fortunately, the spread of liberty and democracy has become all the rage again.

    As far as the actual topic, it's not really surprising, it happens with every army during every war/peacekeeping operation. They'll court martial the offenders who aren't high ranking officers and send the officers to Tiajuana for 'extended leave'.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Deus Ex Machina+Feb 12 2005, 09:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deus Ex Machina @ Feb 12 2005, 09:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah, it's not like they had any opposition to it because their inspectors hadn't found those pesky WMDs. Fortunately, the spread of liberty and democracy has become all the rage again.
    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hey when there’s money to be made who knows what their motives were, do you honestly believe the French and German governments really give a care for the people of Iraq, must not seeing as if they had a say Saddam would still be killing people. Not to mention the way oil for food was run wasn't exactly helping the people of Iraq.

    “But oh noes we didn't find WMD's everything is bad, I hate everyone!”

    I for one am glad Saddam didn't have them because who knows what he would have done with them, the last thing we need is more nuclear material floating around.
  • Deus_Ex_MachinaDeus_Ex_Machina Join Date: 2004-07-01 Member: 29674Members
    I don't disagree with you, I just don't like being lied to by my leaders.

    If the war was for oil, at least have the balls to come out and say it.
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Deus Ex Machina+Feb 12 2005, 10:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deus Ex Machina @ Feb 12 2005, 10:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If the war was for oil, at least have the balls to come out and say it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well we could argue all night whether or not the war was for oil but I’ll say this instead.

    Some people love to take the "moral high ground" by saying it was a dirty war for nothing but oil, but let’s face it this country is run with oil.

    I think we would be surprised just how many people would support a war for nothing but oil if we ran out of oil tonight.
    Things change when people start freezing because their homes don't have heat, or start starving because they can't drive to the store. Or freezing to death on the way to the...well you get the idea.
  • WheeeeWheeee Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-Deus Ex Machina+Feb 12 2005, 09:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Deus Ex Machina @ Feb 12 2005, 09:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Feb 12 2005, 01:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Feb 12 2005, 01:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I never really liked the UN to begin with as far back as I can remember, but their stanch opposition to war in Iraq really ticked me off because the only reason they cared was to save their precious Oil for Food scandal from being uncovered. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, it's not like they had any opposition to it because their inspectors hadn't found those pesky WMDs. Fortunately, the spread of liberty and democracy has become all the rage again.

    As far as the actual topic, it's not really surprising, it happens with every army during every war/peacekeeping operation. They'll court martial the offenders who aren't high ranking officers and send the officers to Tiajuana for 'extended leave'. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wow, someone actually takes what people say in politics at face value?

    I am speechless.
  • Deus_Ex_MachinaDeus_Ex_Machina Join Date: 2004-07-01 Member: 29674Members
    edited February 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well we could argue all night whether or not the war was for oil but I’ll say this instead.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I don't think it would take all night. You apparently think it wasn't, and I think it was. It's doubtful either of us can provide the other with evidence to change eachothers minds (unless something brand spanking new has emerged), and that's that.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some people love to take the "moral high ground" by saying it was a dirty war for nothing but oil, but let’s face it this country is run with oil.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ..and coal, and nuclear power, and hydro power, and wind power, and solar power, and gerbils in wheels, etc. but you're right, oil is the most important. I'm not saying it was a dirty war. I'm not even trying to claim moral high ground. All I'm saying is that I was lied to, and that ticks me off.


    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think we would be surprised just how many people would support a war for nothing but oil if we ran out of oil tonight.
    Things change when people start freezing because their homes don't have heat, or start starving because they can't drive to the store. Or freezing to death on the way to the...well you get the idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I wouldn't be surprised at all. I know for a fact that if we ran out of oil tonight, there would be a huge support of anything that would obtain oil quickly.

    I think this demonstrates perfectly the need for other (and even renewable *gasp!* ) energy sources. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • LegatLegat Join Date: 2003-07-02 Member: 17868Members
    edited February 2005
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sounds to me like they've been "investigating" the "isolated cases" for more than a decade now.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Now, you have hit the nail on the head! Congratulations. You have made a step into the light.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    Your absolutely right, instead of the US leaving the UN, we should kick France and Germany out for their horrendous scandal. After all it wasn’t the whole organization just a few bad apples.

    They can be replaced with Poland and...how about Brazil.

    Yea..I like that version of the UN better. tounge.gif
    <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Reasa, why do you mention Germany? We don't even have a veto. We just pay for the ****. Why do you think Gorgie Boy Bush is so sweety nice to us all of a sudden? because he needs some money. So please kick us out, im glad when I don't have to pay taxes for US wars anymore.

    As for the scandal, with which you surely are refering to the oil for food program.
    Well I still dont have understood why you keep on complaining about this.
    Its normal that someone fills his pockets on such things. Thats how the world works you know? Where do you think all the money went down there in the Tsunami region? 60+ % down the drain of corruption and mismanagement. that does not upset you right?

    Mr Bush blew 40 million dollar contributions from rich old men in one day for his reelection party, while people were still searching their relatives among the rotting corpses in the morgues down there. Why does this not violate your sense of justice?
    Always searching for the other ones failures arent we?
  • Marine0IMarine0I Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8639Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Reasa, why do you mention Germany? We don't even have a veto. We just pay for the ****. Why do you think Gorgie Boy Bush is so sweety nice to us all of a sudden? because he needs some money. So please kick us out, im glad when I don't have to pay taxes for US wars anymore.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Georgie Bush is nice to you all of a sudden because he was criticised for rightly telling Germany to foad, with widespread whining about "alienating international fairweather frien... uhhh, allies". With that in mind, he has tried to rebuild relationships with Hussein's Heros, to show he's not so childish as to completely sever ties over one incident. Your money is nice, but lets not pretend you're vital to the operation. The US pays nearly 1/4 of the UN fees, and I've yet to hear anyone from the left field of politics criticise a UN authorised war. You dont pay taxes for US wars.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Mr Bush blew 40 million dollar contributions from rich old men in one day for his reelection party, while people were still searching their relatives among the rotting corpses in the morgues down there. Why does this not violate your sense of justice?
    Always searching for the other ones failures arent we?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    First of all, the rich old men claim is silly:

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Remember that nine of the twelve richest members of the United States Senate are Democrats,” he wrote. “A December 18, 2002, Washington Times editorial reports that donors giving ‘small and medium amounts’ in 2002 overwhelmingly supported the GOP, while ‘rich or deep-pocketed givers’ hugely backed the Democrats!

    “Those giving $200 to $999: GOP $68 million; Democrats $44 million. Those giving $1,000 to $9,999: GOP $317 million; Democrats $307 million. The "fabulously wealthy" donors of $10,000+ gave $111 million to the GOP – a whopping $29 million less than the $140 million they lavished on the Democrats!

    “Among those who gave $100,000+, the Democrats raised $72 million – more than double the $34 million the GOP took.

    “The fact is that in the 2002 election cycle, those who gave a million dollars or more poured $36 million into the Democrat coffers, and a paltry $3 million into the pockets of the GOP. Again: millionaire donations went Democrat by a 12:1 margin! The two parties took in about the same amount overall – GOP: $384 million; Democrats: $350 million.

    “In addition, the GOP attracted 40% more individual donors! (George W. Bush set an all-time fund-raising record by collecting the most money from one-thousand-dollar donors in the history of presidential politics.) Far more people giving small amounts exist as contributors to the Republican Party - while Democrats skunked the GOP among the super-rich.”<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That was last election. The Democrats actually outspent the GOP this time around. The rich old men support Bush idea is an irrational one.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Mr Bush blew 40 million dollar contributions from rich old men in one day for his reelection party, while people were still searching their relatives among the rotting corpses in the morgues down there. Why does this not violate your sense of justice?
    Always searching for the other ones failures arent we?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The inaugarationmathingy was going to go ahead, period. Wave or no wave. To claim Bush should have stopped it and given all the money to victims is also irrational. If you are going to demand that of him, then you would have to demand that everyone give up luxuries and donate them also. How many millions of American's had a second coffee, while people picked through rotting carcasses? How many bought TV's? How many German's went down to the pub for a beer? How many French went to the movies? All that money, spent on luxuries, could have been donated to the tsunamii victims, but wasnt. It doesnt offend my sense of justice because donations are just that, donations, not taxes. And, as usual, the US ended up spearheading the relief effort, along with its Australian allies, while the UN sent a few advisors to "establish the extent of the disaster, and coordinate the relief effot" - codewords for "do sweet bugger all".
  • reasareasa Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Legat+Feb 13 2005, 06:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legat @ Feb 13 2005, 06:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Reasa, why do you mention Germany? We don't even have a veto. We just pay for the ****. Why do you think Gorgie Boy Bush is so sweety nice to us all of a sudden? because he needs some money. So please kick us out, im glad when I don't have to pay taxes for US wars anymore.



    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I mention Germany because along with France she was most vocal in her opposition to the war with Iraq. Hey you know you can still help pay for the effort in Iraq <i>and</i> leave the UN. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the scandal, with which you surely are refering to the oil for food program.
    Well I still dont have understood why you keep on complaining about this.
    Its normal that someone fills his pockets on such things. Thats how the world works you know? Where do you think all the money went down there in the Tsunami region? 60+ % down the drain of corruption and mismanagement. that does not upset you right?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'm complaining about it because the lovely Europeans who happen to populate those countries like to think they are so superior to Americans when really the only reason their governments were so staunchly objecting to the war in Iraq was to cover their **** and keep the cash flowing.

    As for the Tsunami that’s a separate topic, but I would think your 60% figure is a bit high.

    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Mr Bush blew 40 million dollar contributions from rich old men in one day for his reelection party, while people were still searching their relatives among the rotting corpses in the morgues down there. Why does this not violate your sense of justice?
    Always searching for the other ones failures arent we?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What have you done to help the victims of the Tsunami, as you sit there by your nice computer in your warm house while realities bury their dead?
    This is really a silly argument, people in power be they democrat or republican will always be spending money while some tragedy is underway somewhere in the world. You’re taking a completely unrelated issue and trying to apply it to this topic.
    My beef with France and Germany is over the stance they took on the war with Iraq and their reasons for doing so. I don’t see how the Tsunami victims relate other then some new odd way of making Bush look like a bad man.
  • LegatLegat Join Date: 2003-07-02 Member: 17868Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I mention Germany because along with France she was most vocal in her opposition to the war with Iraq. Hey you know you can still help pay for the effort in Iraq and leave the UN. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Don't lough! we do! We pay for everybody, so it does not really matter. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    As for germanys vocal expression, well 70%+ were against the Iraq conflict, it was election time and the Governing Coalition was going to loose.....

    Well, figure out the rest of the story.
    German Chancelers did refuse to participate in military actions of NATO or UN before. This time however it was abused for the election.
    I do understand that the way it was pronunced and celebrated by the government was tactless and provocating towards the US.
  • SkySky Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Legat+Feb 13 2005, 05:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legat @ Feb 13 2005, 05:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I do understand that the way it was pronunced and celebrated by the government was tactless and provocating towards the US. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Probably because most Americans think Europe owes us something. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • AvengerXAvengerX Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27459Banned
    <!--QuoteBegin-Sky+Feb 13 2005, 05:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sky @ Feb 13 2005, 05:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Legat+Feb 13 2005, 05:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legat @ Feb 13 2005, 05:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I do understand that the way it was pronunced and celebrated by the government was tactless and provocating towards the US. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Probably because most Americans think Europe owes us something. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    well ya know there is the whole thing of winning WWII for everyone.........
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