<!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 12 2005, 03:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 12 2005, 03:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ns_veil, a well accepted competative map, has no dark spots. Yes the lighting has awsome design but most importantly the lighting is 100% neutral to gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seen as you are a "must haver uber high brightness for my marine team to win" guy, isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil? If its not so dark its still darker than what your suggesting every map should be, which is as bright as a 10,000 watt bulb.
<!--QuoteBegin-Thursday+Feb 14 2005, 08:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday @ Feb 14 2005, 08:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 12 2005, 03:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 12 2005, 03:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ns_veil, a well accepted competative map, has no dark spots. Yes the lighting has awsome design but most importantly the lighting is 100% neutral to gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seen as you are a "must haver uber high brightness for my marine team to win" guy, isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil? If its not so dark its still darker than what your suggesting every map should be, which is as bright as a 10,000 watt bulb. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Your post is a good example of how brightness effects people differenetly. While some may be able to read what I wrote in the post above, you were unable to read my post. I said:
"If the marine ever has even the slightest desire for an area to be brighter, it should be brighter."
When you are reading a book do you use a 10,000 watt bulb? No. There is an ideal level of light which allows for quality contrast and vision.
"isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil?" eh? Almost the entire map is 'on to the way to one of the hives', and no. I cant think of one.
<!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 14 2005, 03:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 14 2005, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Co_core has one well known 'black' spot, its a joke. It is nothing but random biting and shooting because neither side can see. (ignore the fact that its a co_ map, the point is still valid) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you just expect to "run" into a room and the only thing you count on is your ability to be quicker at clicking your mouse than the other person.
All offense but competitive play as you describe it is just like cs, Natural-Selection is aliens V Marines, both sides have pros&cons, one of the aliens, mainly the skulk is to be sneaky and jump marines(from the shadows), The game requires "BRAINS" not just a quick finger. Competitive play is poo, and when i hear you competitve guys crying about our maps being to dark. . . <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> go make your own **** bright maps.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If the marine ever has even the slightest desire for an area to be brighter, it should be brighter." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the marines should have the advantage then??WHY?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you are reading a book do you use a 10,000 watt bulb? No. There is an ideal level of light which allows for quality contrast and vision.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes there is an ideal level of light, so you can see things clearly, NS is not a friggin book. Maps have both bright areas and dark areas because there is TWO teams in the game, the aliens use the darkness to their advantage.
<!--QuoteBegin-Moconnor+Feb 14 2005, 07:50 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moconnor @ Feb 14 2005, 07:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 14 2005, 03:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 14 2005, 03:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Co_core has one well known 'black' spot, its a joke. It is nothing but random biting and shooting because neither side can see. (ignore the fact that its a co_ map, the point is still valid) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you just expect to "run" into a room and the only thing you count on is your ability to be quicker at clicking your mouse than the other person. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> where did you make this up from? its a valid point to complain about a spot that is so dark its impossible to see ANYTHING, regardless of what team you're on.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All offense but competitive play as you describe it is just like cs, Natural-Selection is aliens V Marines, both sides have pros&cons, one of the aliens, mainly the skulk is to be sneaky and jump marines(from the shadows), The game requires "BRAINS" not just a quick finger. Competitive play is poo, and when i hear you competitve guys crying about our maps being to dark. . . <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> go make your own **** bright maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
shadows? i have lightgamma 0 therefore i HAVE no shadows. well, almost. besides, what if a marine checks those dark corners with his flashlight? no, a good map allows the skulks to use architecture as means to ambush and hide, not some stupidly dark spots that do nothing but frustrate everyone that play the map. and dissing competetive play is worthless unless you've tried it for a substantial amount of time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If the marine ever has even the slightest desire for an area to be brighter, it should be brighter." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the marines should have the advantage then??WHY?
not really the advantage, but having overly dark spots is just plain wrong. its unfair and is an insult to the player as well as the mapper, because he obviously cant rely on his skills to create useful architecture and instead makes overly dark spots to "help skulking".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you are reading a book do you use a 10,000 watt bulb? No. There is an ideal level of light which allows for quality contrast and vision.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes there is an ideal level of light, so you can see things clearly, NS is not a friggin book. Maps have both bright areas and dark areas because there is TWO teams in the game, the aliens use the darkness to their advantage.
not necessarily. darkness is a disadvantage to both teams, maybe not equally but still. no-one likes to play a map where you cant see anything, its not FUN. not for the skulks not for the marines, for no-one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Your post is a good example of how brightness effects people differenetly. While some may be able to read what I wrote in the post above, you were unable to read my post.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->LMAO'd at that one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The flashlight example you gave, Tomekki, is flawed. In NS when 'rines use their flashlights all over the shop, they give away their position (they could be round a corner, for example). Besides that a competitive player will hear them coming and will put himself in an ideal place to ambush (whether it's dark or not is neither here nor there).
The problem being if a Skulk hides on top of a set of pipes we could have two different outcomes for when the 'rine comes round the corner. In a pubplay map with 'atmospheric' (and I'm not talkin' obscenely dark) lighting, the Skulk would be well-hidden, anyone who goes round spamming their flashlight will give away their -exact- position, so chances are the Skulk will have the upper hand. [my view is that these darker corridors should only be located close to the Hives, or in an area that might need to be deliberately biased towards Aliens to establish a general map balance between the teams] Anyway, in your ideal matchplay map, the Alien doesn't have that advantage.
In my opinion there should be some program that randomly takes 3 printscreens from random players and posts them up on the match result page. Then complaints could lodged against players who are obviously causing themselves ocular damage. What about demos or something? I can't believe that rather than finding a solution to prevent cheating, you'd rather change the game!!???
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Thus catering for the cheaters!!!</span>
huh? you lost me now. how does setting gamma level compare to cheating?
and im not saying that everything should be 100% bright. i am saying that nothing should be 100% dark. a little contrast is fine in a map, pitch-black spots to "help" aliens are not.
It's a common known and used method to nullify the cloaking upgrade.
People probably don't use cloaking in clan matches because of all the gamma hackers :/
(yeah and don't tell me about how you can see cloakers without gamma hax, we all know that. But without gamma hax you can use cloaking to reduce your detectability)
<!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 14 2005, 05:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 14 2005, 05:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil?" eh? Almost the entire map is 'on to the way to one of the hives', and no. I cant think of one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Southwest enterance to pipeline, somewhat dark. West side of sub-sector, quite dark.
<!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Feb 15 2005, 03:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Feb 15 2005, 03:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's a common known and used method to nullify the cloaking upgrade.
People probably don't use cloaking in clan matches because of all the gamma hackers :/
(yeah and don't tell me about how you can see cloakers without gamma hax, we all know that. But without gamma hax you can use cloaking to reduce your detectability) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i cant see cloakers with or without "gamma hax". except if i turn gl_monolights on, but that has the downside that every wall that someone touches or something turns pitch black.
the reason why i cant see cloakers usually is because im not experienced enough to spot them, and my graphics card doesnt help at all. it really has nothing to do with "gamma hax".
people do use cloaking, i can say at least reflect and obs-ns use cloaking from time to time. as well as some other clans (reddog for one).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Southwest enterance to pipeline, somewhat dark. West side of sub-sector, quite dark.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, but in these two spots i can see fine. no skulk can hide in plain site. and i only use light gamma 2
<!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Feb 15 2005, 10:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Feb 15 2005, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't believe that rather than finding a solution to prevent cheating, you'd rather change the game!!??? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The lighting IS the problem. lol@gamma hacks Am I gamma hacking when I turn the gamma up on my monitor, my video settings? Give me a break.
Think of it this way. Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes.
Lets use a more realistic situations. A skulk is camping in a pitch black corner. The marine walks by-> looks at the corner-> sees nothing-> continues-> is then killed. So what could that marine have done? He could have looked "harder"--woot thats some good "hard looking skill".
Many competative players will agree cloaking is a rather skilless upgrade. Cloaking, like darkness, can not be well accented by player skill. Even a total nub can use cloaking and stand in a hallway and kill random skilled marines. So is cloaking uber? No, it still sucks compared to other upgrades when used by skilled players. For example, a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effective than a skilled cloaking skulk. In contrast, a skilled cloaking skulk is relativly equal to a non-skilled skulk. How do you combat cloaking skulks? You "look harder"--its lame.
<!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 15 2005, 12:58 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 15 2005, 12:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Thursday+Feb 14 2005, 08:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday @ Feb 14 2005, 08:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 12 2005, 03:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 12 2005, 03:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ns_veil, a well accepted competative map, has no dark spots. Yes the lighting has awsome design but most importantly the lighting is 100% neutral to gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seen as you are a "must haver uber high brightness for my marine team to win" guy, isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil? If its not so dark its still darker than what your suggesting every map should be, which is as bright as a 10,000 watt bulb. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Your post is a good example of how brightness effects people differenetly. While some may be able to read what I wrote in the post above, you were unable to read my post. I said:
"If the marine ever has even the slightest desire for an area to be brighter, it should be brighter."
When you are reading a book do you use a 10,000 watt bulb? No. There is an ideal level of light which allows for quality contrast and vision.
"isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil?" eh? Almost the entire map is 'on to the way to one of the hives', and no. I cant think of one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Most people got my post, you obviously never. Note: sarcasm. Who in their right mind would use a 10,000 watt bulb to read a book? Someone quite stupid. Who in their right mind would play a fullbright NS map? Someone stupid. Try and look for links in peoples forum posts <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-phunktion+Feb 15 2005, 10:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (phunktion @ Feb 15 2005, 10:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Southwest enterance to pipeline, somewhat dark. West side of sub-sector, quite dark.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, but in these two spots i can see fine. no skulk can hide in plain site. and i only use light gamma 2 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you play with the "correct" and recommended NS settings, you will find that area is pretty dark and a skulk can hide there and surprise you pretty easily. Just because you have your brightness above recommended NS Settings (there is a tutorial/slideshow included with the installer) doesn't mean levels have to be made to your "standard", rather than "recommended standards".
<!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 16 2005, 05:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 16 2005, 05:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Feb 15 2005, 10:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Feb 15 2005, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't believe that rather than finding a solution to prevent cheating, you'd rather change the game!!??? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The lighting IS the problem. lol@gamma hacks Am I gamma hacking when I turn the gamma up on my monitor, my video settings? Give me a break.
<span style='color:red'>If it has the result that you can see cloaked players, or that dark corners are now without shade, then yes. You are an exploitative player.</span>
Think of it this way. Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes.
<span style='color:red'>Without light, you cannot have shadow; without darkness, there can be no light. We're not talking about pitch-black rooms here, we're talking about shadows that you can hide in.</span>
Lets use a more realistic situations. A skulk is camping in a pitch black corner. The marine walks by-> looks at the corner-> sees nothing-> continues-> is then killed. [/b]So what could that marine have done?[/B] He could have looked "harder"--woot thats some good "hard looking skill".
<span style='color:red'>Well if he doesn't have his gamma pumped up to the max, then his flashlight will make the difference. If he is exploiting then he will see the skulk regardless, but you're not seriously supporting 'sploits are you?</span>
Many competative players will agree cloaking is a rather skilless upgrade. Cloaking, like darkness, can not be well accented by player skill. <b>Even a total nub can use cloaking and stand in a hallway and kill random skilled marines.</b> So is cloaking uber? No, it still sucks compared to other upgrades when used by skilled players.
<span style='color:red'>'Rines who get killed by a skulk who's "standing in a hallway" are not considered "skilled" in my book. A skulk would need to position himself somewhere other than the floor to have any success against "skilled" players. Cloaking as an upgrade is supposed to allow Aliens to see Marines coming from distance and react accordingly. This and the "lerking in the shadows" example fit with the idea given by the Dev team that Marines need to move in teams to succeed in NS, whether in matches or reccys.</span>
For example, <b>a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effective than a skilled cloaking skulk.</b>
<span style='color:red'>Only more effective because of gamma exploiters.</span>
In contrast, a skilled cloaking skulk is relativly equal to a non-skilled skulk. <b>How do you combat cloaking skulks? You "look harder"--its lame.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-Thursday+Feb 16 2005, 05:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday @ Feb 16 2005, 05:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you play with the "correct" and recommended NS settings, you will find that area is pretty dark and a skulk can hide there and surprise you pretty easily. Just because you have your brightness above recommended NS Settings (there is a tutorial/slideshow included with the installer) doesn't mean levels have to be made to your "standard", rather than "recommended standards". <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> statement of the MONTH! *saves to disc* or like other people would say "true, true,..." <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit: took a look at the map. its quite a decent piece of work, only thing I personaly dont like: we are onboard a starship... there are too few functional elements in te map <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
what I realized during walktrough (didnt read all the posts so some things could have been mentioned already): - the stairs and the catwalk in reservoir seem to hover - observatory is a very nice hive. heaven for skulks, hell for marines.. and btw for onos, too. - J-turn catches my eye. this "golden" lightning is amazing. - marinestart: you have a hard time to build structures on the higher part near the cc. you should fix that. - north of hangar hive: you are able to build on the little free space abouve the airduct. skybox :/ - and I like the hangar door, too!!! - the room with glass windows at one hive (forgot the name) is a nice idea but I dont think it will work to your complete satisfaction. its just too... dunno...
Really the answer to that is mostly subjective. But as I mentioned before, if it's negating to a noticeable degree the settings of the game (cloaking) or the map (shadows) then it could be considered exploiting in my eyes.
Think of it this way. Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes.
<span style='color:red'>Without light, you cannot have shadow; without darkness, there can be no light. We're not talking about pitch-black rooms here, we're talking about shadows that you can hide in.</span> <span style='color:orange'>No, I AM talking about pitch black to prove a point. Another way of stating this is: The darker the room, the more likly Crispy is to kill xHomicide. Where as in a well lit room you will die every time.</span>
Lets use a more realistic situations. A skulk is camping in a pitch black corner. The marine walks by-> looks at the corner-> sees nothing-> continues-> is then killed. [/b]So what could that marine have done?[/B] He could have looked "harder"--woot thats some good "hard looking skill".
<span style='color:red'>Well if he doesn't have his gamma pumped up to the max, then his flashlight will make the difference. If he is exploiting then he will see the skulk regardless, but you're not seriously supporting 'sploits are you?</span> <span style='color:orange'>So you are saying, using your flash light is a player developed skill that should be used in competative play? WOW I am stating a situation where the player CLEARLY did NOT see the skulk and was CLEARLY NOT exploiting. Exploiting with gamma hacks is a joke and you are insulting your self by attempting to direct this arguement towards 'gamma hackers'.</span>
Many competative players will agree cloaking is a rather skilless upgrade. Cloaking, like darkness, can not be well accented by player skill. <b>Even a total nub can use cloaking and stand in a hallway and kill random skilled marines.</b> So is cloaking uber? No, it still sucks compared to other upgrades when used by skilled players.
<span style='color:red'>'Rines who get killed by a skulk who's "standing in a hallway" are not considered "skilled" in my book. A skulk would need to position himself somewhere other than the floor to have any success against "skilled" players. Cloaking as an upgrade is supposed to allow Aliens to see Marines coming from distance and react accordingly. This and the "lerking in the shadows" example fit with the idea given by the Dev team that Marines need to move in teams to succeed in NS, whether in matches or reccys.</span> <span style='color:orange'>That is EXACTLY my point...(dot)(dot). The cloaked players are NOT skilled and can still kill skilled players by standing in the center of the hallway, given the player does not have 'hacks'; which you continue to bring up.</span>
For example, <b>a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effective than a skilled cloaking skulk.</b>
<span style='color:red'>Only more effective because of gamma exploiters.</span>
<span style='color:orange'>I am using cloaking as an example where the marine CANNOT see the skulk. So shale I rewrite so you can catch on: a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effectice than a <b>stationary skilled cloaking skulk that the marines cant see.</b> </span>
In contrast, a skilled cloaking skulk is relativly equal to a non-skilled skulk. <b>How do you combat cloaking skulks? You "look harder"--its lame.</b>
<span style='color:red'>No, <u>that</u> is skill.</span> <span style='color:orange'>Maybe you should stop playing natural selection and start playing <a href='http://www.nuvostudios.com/nuvosite/games/difference.html' target='_blank'>http://www.nuvostudios.com/nuvosite/games/difference.html</a> .</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 16 2005, 10:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 16 2005, 10:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Think of it this way. Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Play Doom 3, then try and back that up.
Edit: Before I get a stupid "Blah why Doom 3 its not NS" etc. reply, it's to do with darkness and gaming ability.
<!--QuoteBegin-Thursday+Feb 16 2005, 02:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday @ Feb 16 2005, 02:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you play with the "correct" and recommended NS settings, you will find that area is pretty dark and a skulk can hide there and surprise you pretty easily. Just because you have your brightness above recommended NS Settings (there is a tutorial/slideshow included with the installer) doesn't mean levels have to be made to your "standard", rather than "recommended standards".<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Phunktion uses standard light settings LOL@you
<!--QuoteBegin-Thursday+Feb 16 2005, 02:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday @ Feb 16 2005, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 16 2005, 10:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 16 2005, 10:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Think of it this way. Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Play Doom 3, then try and back that up.
Edit: Before I get a stupid "Blah why Doom 3 its not NS" etc. reply, it's to do with darkness and gaming ability. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If doom3 was brighter it would improve competative play, done.
<!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 16 2005, 11:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 16 2005, 11:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Thursday+Feb 16 2005, 02:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday @ Feb 16 2005, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 16 2005, 10:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 16 2005, 10:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Think of it this way. Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Play Doom 3, then try and back that up.
Edit: Before I get a stupid "Blah why Doom 3 its not NS" etc. reply, it's to do with darkness and gaming ability. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If doom3 was brighter it would improve competative play, done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You really are narrow minded, and everything has to be spelled out to you <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
<b>It would be competitive</b>, possibly more than you think. Why? It would be a challenge to see which one can work the shadows, and notice muzzle flashes and use the lack of lighting to hide and shoot. It would also mean they would have to be much more accurate than a bright area because you will be less aware of the opponents position meaning a greater skill is required to win.
You are fighting a losing battle, I wish you would just settle down now <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Thursday+Feb 16 2005, 02:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thursday @ Feb 16 2005, 02:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It would also mean they would have to be much more accurate than a bright area because you will be less aware of the opponents position <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Being more accurate does not counter being less aware of the opponent's position. If you can some how be more accurate at aiming at nothing let me know how you do it. As far as I know, somthing like that would not be permitted in any leagues I have played in.
But your shots in the dark are entertaining, continue posting.
<!--QuoteBegin-homicide+Feb 16 2005, 05:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (homicide @ Feb 16 2005, 05:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Feb 15 2005, 10:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Feb 15 2005, 10:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't believe that rather than finding a solution to prevent cheating, you'd rather change the game!!??? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The lighting IS the problem. lol@gamma hacks Am I gamma hacking when I turn the gamma up on my monitor, my video settings? Give me a break.
Think of it this way. Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes.
Lets use a more realistic situations. A skulk is camping in a pitch black corner. The marine walks by-> looks at the corner-> sees nothing-> continues-> is then killed. So what could that marine have done? He could have looked "harder"--woot thats some good "hard looking skill".
Many competative players will agree cloaking is a rather skilless upgrade. Cloaking, like darkness, can not be well accented by player skill. Even a total nub can use cloaking and stand in a hallway and kill random skilled marines. So is cloaking uber? No, it still sucks compared to other upgrades when used by skilled players. For example, a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effective than a skilled cloaking skulk. In contrast, a skilled cloaking skulk is relativly equal to a non-skilled skulk. How do you combat cloaking skulks? You "look harder"--its lame. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Or, he could turn on that beacon of a flashlight, or put 2 rounds there "just to be sure" or
yeah, list goes on bucko... you loose, sorry
Case... closed... gamma hacks suck (and yes, gamma hacking IS turning up your monitor so high that nothing is black )
If the list goes on please continue the list, since so far you have said: 1)flashlight, which is horrible in half-life 2)shooting the dark spot, we know it requires tons of skill to shoot little random black spots. Thats what we need. Tons of spots that marines run around and shoot.
Comments
Seen as you are a "must haver uber high brightness for my marine team to win" guy, isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil? If its not so dark its still darker than what your suggesting every map should be, which is as bright as a 10,000 watt bulb.
Seen as you are a "must haver uber high brightness for my marine team to win" guy, isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil? If its not so dark its still darker than what your suggesting every map should be, which is as bright as a 10,000 watt bulb. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your post is a good example of how brightness effects people differenetly. While some may be able to read what I wrote in the post above, you were unable to read my post. I said:
"If the marine ever has even the slightest desire for an area to be brighter, it should be brighter."
When you are reading a book do you use a 10,000 watt bulb? No. There is an ideal level of light which allows for quality contrast and vision.
"isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil?"
eh? Almost the entire map is 'on to the way to one of the hives', and no. I cant think of one.
So you just expect to "run" into a room and the only thing you count on is your ability to be quicker at clicking your mouse than the other person.
All offense but competitive play as you describe it is just like cs, Natural-Selection is aliens V Marines, both sides have pros&cons, one of the aliens, mainly the skulk is to be sneaky and jump marines(from the shadows), The game requires "BRAINS" not just a quick finger. Competitive play is poo, and when i hear you competitve guys crying about our maps being to dark. . . <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> go make your own **** bright maps.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
If the marine ever has even the slightest desire for an area to be brighter, it should be brighter."
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the marines should have the advantage then??WHY?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you are reading a book do you use a 10,000 watt bulb? No. There is an ideal level of light which allows for quality contrast and vision.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes there is an ideal level of light, so you can see things clearly, NS is not a friggin book. Maps have both bright areas and dark areas because there is TWO teams in the game, the aliens use the darkness to their advantage.
. . . . . . . . . _
So you just expect to "run" into a room and the only thing you count on is your ability to be quicker at clicking your mouse than the other person. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
where did you make this up from? its a valid point to complain about a spot that is so dark its impossible to see ANYTHING, regardless of what team you're on.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All offense but competitive play as you describe it is just like cs, Natural-Selection is aliens V Marines, both sides have pros&cons, one of the aliens, mainly the skulk is to be sneaky and jump marines(from the shadows), The game requires "BRAINS" not just a quick finger. Competitive play is poo, and when i hear you competitve guys crying about our maps being to dark. . . <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> go make your own **** bright maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
shadows? i have lightgamma 0 therefore i HAVE no shadows. well, almost. besides, what if a marine checks those dark corners with his flashlight? no, a good map allows the skulks to use architecture as means to ambush and hide, not some stupidly dark spots that do nothing but frustrate everyone that play the map. and dissing competetive play is worthless unless you've tried it for a substantial amount of time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
If the marine ever has even the slightest desire for an area to be brighter, it should be brighter."
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So the marines should have the advantage then??WHY?
not really the advantage, but having overly dark spots is just plain wrong. its unfair and is an insult to the player as well as the mapper, because he obviously cant rely on his skills to create useful architecture and instead makes overly dark spots to "help skulking".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->When you are reading a book do you use a 10,000 watt bulb? No. There is an ideal level of light which allows for quality contrast and vision.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes there is an ideal level of light, so you can see things clearly, NS is not a friggin book. Maps have both bright areas and dark areas because there is TWO teams in the game, the aliens use the darkness to their advantage.
not necessarily. darkness is a disadvantage to both teams, maybe not equally but still. no-one likes to play a map where you cant see anything, its not FUN. not for the skulks not for the marines, for no-one.
It has diagonally moving hallways, I like that in a halflife map, breaks up the whole "I am a box, run around in me!" feeling.
The flashlight example you gave, Tomekki, is flawed. In NS when 'rines use their flashlights all over the shop, they give away their position (they could be round a corner, for example). Besides that a competitive player will hear them coming and will put himself in an ideal place to ambush (whether it's dark or not is neither here nor there).
The problem being if a Skulk hides on top of a set of pipes we could have two different outcomes for when the 'rine comes round the corner. In a pubplay map with 'atmospheric' (and I'm not talkin' obscenely dark) lighting, the Skulk would be well-hidden, anyone who goes round spamming their flashlight will give away their -exact- position, so chances are the Skulk will have the upper hand. [my view is that these darker corridors should only be located close to the Hives, or in an area that might need to be deliberately biased towards Aliens to establish a general map balance between the teams] Anyway, in your ideal matchplay map, the Alien doesn't have that advantage.
In my opinion there should be some program that randomly takes 3 printscreens from random players and posts them up on the match result page. Then complaints could lodged against players who are obviously causing themselves ocular damage. What about demos or something? I can't believe that rather than finding a solution to prevent cheating, you'd rather change the game!!???
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Thus catering for the cheaters!!!</span>
and im not saying that everything should be 100% bright. i am saying that nothing should be 100% dark. a little contrast is fine in a map, pitch-black spots to "help" aliens are not.
People probably don't use cloaking in clan matches because of all the gamma hackers :/
(yeah and don't tell me about how you can see cloakers without gamma hax, we all know that. But without gamma hax you can use cloaking to reduce your detectability)
eh? Almost the entire map is 'on to the way to one of the hives', and no. I cant think of one. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Southwest enterance to pipeline, somewhat dark.
West side of sub-sector, quite dark.
People probably don't use cloaking in clan matches because of all the gamma hackers :/
(yeah and don't tell me about how you can see cloakers without gamma hax, we all know that. But without gamma hax you can use cloaking to reduce your detectability) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i cant see cloakers with or without "gamma hax". except if i turn gl_monolights on, but that has the downside that every wall that someone touches or something turns pitch black.
the reason why i cant see cloakers usually is because im not experienced enough to spot them, and my graphics card doesnt help at all. it really has nothing to do with "gamma hax".
people do use cloaking, i can say at least reflect and obs-ns use cloaking from time to time. as well as some other clans (reddog for one).
and tune down the overall brightness then u have a more efectful lighting.
This is more a cosmetic change to fit ns.
West side of sub-sector, quite dark.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, but in these two spots i can see fine. no skulk can hide in plain site.
and i only use light gamma 2
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The lighting IS the problem.
lol@gamma hacks
Am I gamma hacking when I turn the gamma up on my monitor, my video settings?
Give me a break.
Think of it this way.
Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes.
Lets use a more realistic situations. A skulk is camping in a pitch black corner. The marine walks by-> looks at the corner-> sees nothing-> continues-> is then killed. So what could that marine have done? He could have looked "harder"--woot thats some good "hard looking skill".
Many competative players will agree cloaking is a rather skilless upgrade. Cloaking, like darkness, can not be well accented by player skill. Even a total nub can use cloaking and stand in a hallway and kill random skilled marines. So is cloaking uber? No, it still sucks compared to other upgrades when used by skilled players.
For example, a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effective than a skilled cloaking skulk. In contrast, a skilled cloaking skulk is relativly equal to a non-skilled skulk.
How do you combat cloaking skulks? You "look harder"--its lame.
Seen as you are a "must haver uber high brightness for my marine team to win" guy, isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil? If its not so dark its still darker than what your suggesting every map should be, which is as bright as a 10,000 watt bulb. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your post is a good example of how brightness effects people differenetly. While some may be able to read what I wrote in the post above, you were unable to read my post. I said:
"If the marine ever has even the slightest desire for an area to be brighter, it should be brighter."
When you are reading a book do you use a 10,000 watt bulb? No. There is an ideal level of light which allows for quality contrast and vision.
"isn't there a dark area on to the way to one of the hives in Veil?"
eh? Almost the entire map is 'on to the way to one of the hives', and no. I cant think of one.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most people got my post, you obviously never. Note: sarcasm. Who in their right mind would use a 10,000 watt bulb to read a book? Someone quite stupid. Who in their right mind would play a fullbright NS map? Someone stupid. Try and look for links in peoples forum posts <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-phunktion+Feb 15 2005, 10:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (phunktion @ Feb 15 2005, 10:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Southwest enterance to pipeline, somewhat dark.
West side of sub-sector, quite dark.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes, but in these two spots i can see fine. no skulk can hide in plain site.
and i only use light gamma 2
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you play with the "correct" and recommended NS settings, you will find that area is pretty dark and a skulk can hide there and surprise you pretty easily. Just because you have your brightness above recommended NS Settings (there is a tutorial/slideshow included with the installer) doesn't mean levels have to be made to your "standard", rather than "recommended standards".
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The lighting IS the problem.
lol@gamma hacks
Am I gamma hacking when I turn the gamma up on my monitor, my video settings?
Give me a break.
<span style='color:red'>If it has the result that you can see cloaked players, or that dark corners are now without shade, then yes. You are an exploitative player.</span>
Think of it this way.
Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes.
<span style='color:red'>Without light, you cannot have shadow; without darkness, there can be no light. We're not talking about pitch-black rooms here, we're talking about shadows that you can hide in.</span>
Lets use a more realistic situations. A skulk is camping in a pitch black corner. The marine walks by-> looks at the corner-> sees nothing-> continues-> is then killed. [/b]So what could that marine have done?[/B] He could have looked "harder"--woot thats some good "hard looking skill".
<span style='color:red'>Well if he doesn't have his gamma pumped up to the max, then his flashlight will make the difference. If he is exploiting then he will see the skulk regardless, but you're not seriously supporting 'sploits are you?</span>
Many competative players will agree cloaking is a rather skilless upgrade. Cloaking, like darkness, can not be well accented by player skill. <b>Even a total nub can use cloaking and stand in a hallway and kill random skilled marines.</b> So is cloaking uber? No, it still sucks compared to other upgrades when used by skilled players.
<span style='color:red'>'Rines who get killed by a skulk who's "standing in a hallway" are not considered "skilled" in my book. A skulk would need to position himself somewhere other than the floor to have any success against "skilled" players. Cloaking as an upgrade is supposed to allow Aliens to see Marines coming from distance and react accordingly. This and the "lerking in the shadows" example fit with the idea given by the Dev team that Marines need to move in teams to succeed in NS, whether in matches or reccys.</span>
For example, <b>a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effective than a skilled cloaking skulk.</b>
<span style='color:red'>Only more effective because of gamma exploiters.</span>
In contrast, a skilled cloaking skulk is relativly equal to a non-skilled skulk.
<b>How do you combat cloaking skulks? You "look harder"--its lame.</b>
<span style='color:red'>No, <u>that</u> is skill.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
statement of the MONTH! *saves to disc*
or like other people would say "true, true,..." <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
edit:
took a look at the map. its quite a decent piece of work, only thing I personaly dont like: we are onboard a starship... there are too few functional elements in te map <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
what I realized during walktrough (didnt read all the posts so some things could have been mentioned already):
- the stairs and the catwalk in reservoir seem to hover
- observatory is a very nice hive. heaven for skulks, hell for marines.. and btw for onos, too.
- J-turn catches my eye. this "golden" lightning is amazing.
- marinestart: you have a hard time to build structures on the higher part near the cc. you should fix that.
- north of hangar hive: you are able to build on the little free space abouve the airduct. skybox :/
- and I like the hangar door, too!!!
- the room with glass windows at one hive (forgot the name) is a nice idea but I dont think it will work to your complete satisfaction. its just too... dunno...
i use lightgamma 2.
i guess i'm and exploiter.
or maybe i'm just customizing my game. i can't figure it out.
Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes.
<span style='color:red'>Without light, you cannot have shadow; without darkness, there can be no light. We're not talking about pitch-black rooms here, we're talking about shadows that you can hide in.</span>
<span style='color:orange'>No, I AM talking about pitch black to prove a point. Another way of stating this is:
The darker the room, the more likly Crispy is to kill xHomicide. Where as in a well lit room you will die every time.</span>
Lets use a more realistic situations. A skulk is camping in a pitch black corner. The marine walks by-> looks at the corner-> sees nothing-> continues-> is then killed. [/b]So what could that marine have done?[/B] He could have looked "harder"--woot thats some good "hard looking skill".
<span style='color:red'>Well if he doesn't have his gamma pumped up to the max, then his flashlight will make the difference. If he is exploiting then he will see the skulk regardless, but you're not seriously supporting 'sploits are you?</span>
<span style='color:orange'>So you are saying, using your flash light is a player developed skill that should be used in competative play? WOW I am stating a situation where the player CLEARLY did NOT see the skulk and was CLEARLY NOT exploiting. Exploiting with gamma hacks is a joke and you are insulting your self by attempting to direct this arguement towards 'gamma hackers'.</span>
Many competative players will agree cloaking is a rather skilless upgrade. Cloaking, like darkness, can not be well accented by player skill. <b>Even a total nub can use cloaking and stand in a hallway and kill random skilled marines.</b> So is cloaking uber? No, it still sucks compared to other upgrades when used by skilled players.
<span style='color:red'>'Rines who get killed by a skulk who's "standing in a hallway" are not considered "skilled" in my book. A skulk would need to position himself somewhere other than the floor to have any success against "skilled" players. Cloaking as an upgrade is supposed to allow Aliens to see Marines coming from distance and react accordingly. This and the "lerking in the shadows" example fit with the idea given by the Dev team that Marines need to move in teams to succeed in NS, whether in matches or reccys.</span>
<span style='color:orange'>That is EXACTLY my point...(dot)(dot). The cloaked players are NOT skilled and can still kill skilled players by standing in the center of the hallway, given the player does not have 'hacks'; which you continue to bring up.</span>
For example, <b>a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effective than a skilled cloaking skulk.</b>
<span style='color:red'>Only more effective because of gamma exploiters.</span>
<span style='color:orange'>I am using cloaking as an example where the marine CANNOT see the skulk. So shale I rewrite so you can catch on:
a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effectice than a <b>stationary skilled cloaking skulk that the marines cant see.</b>
</span>
In contrast, a skilled cloaking skulk is relativly equal to a non-skilled skulk.
<b>How do you combat cloaking skulks? You "look harder"--its lame.</b>
<span style='color:red'>No, <u>that</u> is skill.</span>
<span style='color:orange'>Maybe you should stop playing natural selection and start playing <a href='http://www.nuvostudios.com/nuvosite/games/difference.html' target='_blank'>http://www.nuvostudios.com/nuvosite/games/difference.html</a> .</span>
Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Play Doom 3, then try and back that up.
Edit: Before I get a stupid "Blah why Doom 3 its not NS" etc. reply, it's to do with darkness and gaming ability.
Phunktion uses standard light settings
LOL@you
Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Play Doom 3, then try and back that up.
Edit: Before I get a stupid "Blah why Doom 3 its not NS" etc. reply, it's to do with darkness and gaming ability. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
If doom3 was brighter it would improve competative play, done.
Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Play Doom 3, then try and back that up.
Edit: Before I get a stupid "Blah why Doom 3 its not NS" etc. reply, it's to do with darkness and gaming ability. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If doom3 was brighter it would improve competative play, done. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You really are narrow minded, and everything has to be spelled out to you <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> .
<b>It would be competitive</b>, possibly more than you think. Why? It would be a challenge to see which one can work the shadows, and notice muzzle flashes and use the lack of lighting to hide and shoot. It would also mean they would have to be much more accurate than a bright area because you will be less aware of the opponents position meaning a greater skill is required to win.
You are fighting a losing battle, I wish you would just settle down now <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Being more accurate does not counter being less aware of the opponent's position. If you can some how be more accurate at aiming at nothing let me know how you do it. As far as I know, somthing like that would not be permitted in any leagues I have played in.
But your shots in the dark are entertaining, continue posting.
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The lighting IS the problem.
lol@gamma hacks
Am I gamma hacking when I turn the gamma up on my monitor, my video settings?
Give me a break.
Think of it this way.
Take two players, one skilled, one not. Put them both in a well lit room. The skilled player will win. Put the same two players in a pitch black room. Let them run around randomly shooting until one of them randomly kills the other. The darker the room is the more random the play becomes.
Lets use a more realistic situations. A skulk is camping in a pitch black corner. The marine walks by-> looks at the corner-> sees nothing-> continues-> is then killed. So what could that marine have done? He could have looked "harder"--woot thats some good "hard looking skill".
Many competative players will agree cloaking is a rather skilless upgrade. Cloaking, like darkness, can not be well accented by player skill. Even a total nub can use cloaking and stand in a hallway and kill random skilled marines. So is cloaking uber? No, it still sucks compared to other upgrades when used by skilled players.
For example, a skilled leaping skulk is significantly more effective than a skilled cloaking skulk. In contrast, a skilled cloaking skulk is relativly equal to a non-skilled skulk.
How do you combat cloaking skulks? You "look harder"--its lame. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or, he could turn on that beacon of a flashlight, or put 2 rounds there "just to be sure" or
yeah, list goes on bucko... you loose, sorry
Case... closed... gamma hacks suck (and yes, gamma hacking IS turning up your monitor so high that nothing is black )
1)flashlight, which is horrible in half-life
2)shooting the dark spot, we know it requires tons of skill to shoot little random black spots. Thats what we need. Tons of spots that marines run around and shoot.