Why Is Dms Preferred Over Dsm?
SmoodCroozn
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Sensory has its benefits</div> Is it just because of the fact that movements take you to far hives?
Basically, I see games where a movement or 2 is at each of the hives, and that's it. The sensory however, is useful throughout the map, meaning 3+ will probably get dropped. Though the preferred upgrade for movement is celerity and maybe adrenaline, I believe that focus and scent of fear outweight them by more. With motion tracking, silence is totally negated, while sensories cover, or should cover MT with cloak. I prefer focus to adrenaline as it not only saves energy, but since the goal of aliens is usually hit and run, you can do a lot more with the hit and run than without focus. Scent of fear is a great upgrade that helps you when you are a fragile form such as a lerk, gorge, etc. Cloaking is somewhat useful at holding rooms, especially since more gorges are likely to put sensories in the field, rather than movements.
Basically, I see games where a movement or 2 is at each of the hives, and that's it. The sensory however, is useful throughout the map, meaning 3+ will probably get dropped. Though the preferred upgrade for movement is celerity and maybe adrenaline, I believe that focus and scent of fear outweight them by more. With motion tracking, silence is totally negated, while sensories cover, or should cover MT with cloak. I prefer focus to adrenaline as it not only saves energy, but since the goal of aliens is usually hit and run, you can do a lot more with the hit and run than without focus. Scent of fear is a great upgrade that helps you when you are a fragile form such as a lerk, gorge, etc. Cloaking is somewhat useful at holding rooms, especially since more gorges are likely to put sensories in the field, rather than movements.
Comments
MC/SC on the other hand is a whole different ballgame. That is extremely powerful - your Fades can take down HAs alot, lot easier like that - same for JPs. Focus and any MC upgrade makes for an awesome Skulk, SoF Gorges or Lerks keep the Hives clear - it all falls into place nicely. Even the Onos doesn't really need DCs - he's just an oversized hit and run unit anyway, and with SoF and Celerity he's likely to get a good devour in.
jesus why do people keep saying this when infact it is the complete opposite...
MCs mean you can move from hive to hive very quickly, or from outpost MC to hive very quickly. On FF servers you can bite the hive to effectively beacon anyone who uses an MC.
Adren is great for most 2nd hive abilities, specifically Umbra spam, stomp, bilebomb spam on enemy turret farms... Silence is good for skulks or ambushing Fades. As a gorge I don't use it until I can get cloaking, and when you're Lerk/Onos there's no real point to trying to hide your position. Celer is good for most everything if you're a hit n run player.
Compare to SoF, which to me is very much an endgame upgrade as you play "hunt the last CC". Cloaking is of marginal use at MT is usually floating around at midgame. Focus is the best of the three, but requires players who can get close enough to actually bite.
So generally the SAFE choice is DMS.
Hoever, team always shouts DMS so there we go...
i think SC is best used as first. skulks can totally own the field, and w/ cloaking they can move without being detected, EVEN WITH MT. so keeping the rines at bay for a while until there is enough rez for another hive. at that point, put up DC/MC which will just help bigger lifeforms, for they are usually more abundant at this point. personally, i like DC better as second chamber.
i would like to hear everyone's opinion, as i'm going into clanning. (so far, only 1 member has actual experience on our team <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->)
But most people will agree that regen is something that really helps advanced lifeforms, and will get it no later than hive 2.
EDIT:: MCs are also better for the 2nd hive because as Necrosis said, the 2nd hive abilities are easier to use with adren. SC is also generally more of an early game chamber, you'll never hear an advanced lifeform say he wished he had scs for focus or SoF or cloaking. SCs just don't help advanced lifeforms.
Edit:
Haha, I forgot to address the topic. DMS is preferred over DSM because celerity is necessary for good fades and onoses. Here I'm going to side with the higher life forms.
A sensory Onos is teh suck.
I beg to differ. In fact, focus not only allows you to save energy, but in a way it's a defensive measure meaning it takes half as long to go in, hit twice and get out as opposed to focuses hit once, and get out.
I find Scent of Fear to be equal to celerity in terms with the Onos. If you can't hear them, at least you can see them coming, unless they beacon or have jps... But in the long term, both are as useful.
Maybe, it's because we, as a community have not tried DSM a lot... We might learn new tactics if we explore.
I'd have to say SMD or MSD is the hardest way to play, but it makes a win all the more enjoyable.
But thats cause they could just give mustang regen and focus while the rest of them f4's and waits for the game to end.
I beg to differ. In fact, focus not only allows you to save energy, but in a way it's a defensive measure meaning it takes half as long to go in, hit twice and get out as opposed to focuses hit once, and get out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's ignoring the fact that focus doesn't make it easier to get the first hit. If you have to run before you can hit them the first time, then you don't get very far. Celerity will allow you to get one hit and get away faster. That is how the fade can benefit from celerity in ways that it can't with focus.
For the onos, sof sounds great. However, if you see 5 marines coming with big weapons, what are you going to do about it? You can devour one marine, but you can't stop the others from chasing you down, because they move faster than you do.
Basically, sensory gives you information before the fight to give you an upper edge (or keeps information from marines), while defense and movement help you survive and be more effective once the fight starts. At midgame, the need for information is less, since you have some map control and you have a good idea of where the marines control. At the same time, the need for survivability increases as higher life forms come up.
Focus can let you kill them faster, but you still have to get close enough for the first hit. Focus fades are the only real argument for sensory second, but movement chambers benefit all of the life forms in a variety of situations.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Focus is amazing for Fade.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Focus is amazing for Fade. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, lately I have started wondering why most clans (including us) always choose MC as second chamber if DC comes first.
The only problem is that against good marine teams, your skulks wont do much good even if they warp in. MCs most often gets used by lerks and fades to get around the map and delay the destruction of the second hive. Rarely of late have I actually seen MCs actually help clearing out the second hive and save it.
On a more general note: MC first usually revolves around early chambers for silence skulks, and most importantly a celerity lerk. Celerity lerks are a great distraction versus LMG marines and are excellent scouts. Unfortunately, their use is greatly diminished when the first SG is being wielded by a good shot.
Rines scout out for RTs, and if you have a team who go ALONE.. perfect.
Go in a gorgegroup, get adren, and healspray the lone rine
Thats the area where clans and pug teams will have to experiment, because SC involves a bit of skill and a bit of cooperation. Likewise any order leaving MC til last will have to worry about team placement and so on.
No, I think the pub circuit is going to be DMS or MDS for a long time to come.
<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Focus is amazing for Fade. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, lately I have started wondering why most clans (including us) always choose MC as second chamber if DC comes first. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A focus regen fade is an incredibly scary thing, I will admit. It effectivly doubles their effectiveness, since now they can hit-and-run squads and kill marines in one swipe rather than two.
That being said, however, MC is a much more valuable second hive upgrade. I could talk about how the movement between hives is necessary for effective alien defense, but I think my fellow community members have addressed that quite nicely.
However, one thing that's failed to be mentioned is this: Onos are worthless without Celerity. Without celerity an onos can be run down by a squad of non-JP marines, even if he uses his stomp well. Without celerity, any attempt to attack an encamped base by an onos is incredibly risky. Without celerity, devouring a marine can frequently be a death sentence.
Yes, a focus/regen fade is amazing, but they still fail when attempting to take down encamped positions; there are just some situations where you absolutely need an onos. And an onos without a speed boost is just as useful as any other cow. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-Brackhar
EDIT: Typo
And again, Onos and lerks benefit much more mid-game from MCs.
And again, Onos and lerks benefit much more mid-game from MCs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I agree that onos almost requires MCs to be an effective offensive weapon (stay alive long enough to be worth it), I dont agree on the larks part. A SOF lerk roaming the map is the ultimate scout/spore spammer. Couple that with focus fades and marines have one hell of a time moving anywhere without getting constantly spored and harassed by a focus fade.
SOF is easily worth it.
The game is natural selection... ADAPT....
The steadfast way is the one that requires the least effort, and coincidentially the least teamwork....
Defenses allow self sufficiency..... No teamwork
Movements allow more self sufficiency, the ability to warp to other hives, and the ability to attack a hive, no teamwork....
Aliens love not using teamwork...
Aliens refuse to adapt
Its already been proven that MOVEMENT chambers help hive one aliens better than any other chamber... yet we insist on defenses almost all the time...
Imho Sensory is a good second and first chamber...
Cloaking gives you an automatic 1:1 K:D ratio unless ur nub... but ive seen cloakers go like 12-0... Sensory prevents hive rushes, Sof prevents hive rushes... Sof prevents damn near any movement of aliens...
Movements allow faster aliens (mobility is thier strength) silenced aliens (you cant kill what you cant hear coming up to bite your ankles) or adenaline to quickly kill those pesky resnodes...
You can even movement rush a hive or sneak a hive up cloaked in a marine lockdown (i love doing this... its hilarious to get that 2nd hive up right in the middle of a rine turretfarm <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The problem is D's and M's promote self sufficiency, while the other orders promote teamwork.... who wants to work on a team.. :-P
in closing i agree that ANY order gives aliens a equal chance... as long as they freaking utlize thier strenghts, and hide thier weaknesses, and counter the marines strategies
~Jason
jesus why do people keep saying this when infact it is the complete opposite... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ok gangsta boy... what you said was so painfully stupid.. that I had to go crack a couple advils after having read it.. but putting that aside, let me give you my input
MC is not counterable
Silence- theres no way to MAKE you be able to hear the aliens, you just can't do it, sensorys cloaking is easy to counter with Motion tracking. because silence enables you to come from behind without the marine hearing you.
Celerity- this skill is only counterealble by better players, theres no upgrades that can make marines more accurate shooters, it matches your skill agaisnt their skill
Adren- adren helps so many diffrent types of aliens. BB gorges, Sporing lerks, Fades, it benefits everyone... great ability
sensory is worthless