<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuSquirrel+Mar 26 2005, 04:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuSquirrel @ Mar 26 2005, 04:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Proportionally, based upon the texture resolution on existing NS wall textures, all the 256x256 walls should actually be done in 1024 to have the same fit to geometry people are used to from the HL version - Default scaling in the editor is .25, so a 512x512 is only 128 world units.
In HL, it was detrimental to scale down textures because of the poly splits based on texture UV coords, so the 256x256 textures (which probably should have been scaled to .5, technically, and built in with extra pieces from there) were generally left at default scale.
From a resources standpoint, 512s make sense, but so much use has come out of the existing NS set at mostly 256 rather than 128 that for familiarity's sake you should really probably keep everything proportional to the original - if you just go with 512s and want to, say, match some of the work in the original maps, you're going to have to start scaling up textures and lose that resolution jump that Source should be giving. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> True. I'm not sure if Source has texture limits like HL1 has, but if it has, then using several 1024 textures would probably use alot of memory (especially on maps with different themes throughout the map). Then again, if it doesn't have a texture limit (or it's large enough), then I suppose 1024 walls could be ok. Thing is though, that I always found myself having to scale down the NS textures when mapping, since they were usually too large for the wall, or I only wanted to use a portion of it or whatever. Since 512x512 seems to work pretty well in Source (them being 128 units tall with default scale), I'm not sure if 1024x1024 would be useful, as I think a lot of that detail will be lost anyway because you need to downscale. I suppose it's really up to the texturer or mapper.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Detail is never lost on scaling a texture down, in fact quite the opposite. High-res textures only give extra detail because more pixels are placed covering the same polygon area. A pixel is the same size on any texture, but the smaller you cram those in-game, the more refined the look gets. This is why Source by default includes a .25 scale, D3 a .5, etc. etc.
Source can get away with higher-res textures than, say, D3 since not every single one has 3-4+ passes on it (a single 512x512 D3 texture can equal a 1024 image in total file size and memory usage, not counting the rendering passes, which is where things start getting pretty expensive). Especially with smart and conservative texture usage, I doubt you'd run into any problems - though that's something to consider when thinking about normal mapping every texture.
It's not like every original NS texture is 256x256, either, and especially on some of the floor panels and such you can probably get away with a smaller texture to balance out the ridiculous scale some of those textures were at with 1:1 in HL <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Righty. I've been pwned <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, as I said, I guess it's up to the texturer. I think it'd be enough to simply double the scale, but if you really feel like adding that extra bit of detail to your texture, go ahead. Now we just need someone to actually make some textures, heh.
<!--QuoteBegin-brute force+Mar 26 2005, 05:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (brute force @ Mar 26 2005, 05:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Righty. I've been pwned <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, as I said, I guess it's up to the texturer. I think it'd be enough to simply double the scale, but if you really feel like adding that extra bit of detail to your texture, go ahead. Now we just need someone to actually make some textures, heh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have become a 2D artist over the weekend, I figured I was going to do all my textures at 10x10 anyways since the worst that could come of it would be that someone would want it scaled for the final version. I know we all weren't thrilled that the original NS textures were drawn at final res when we wanted to build that detailed texture pack...
If you aren't sure what resolution to make your textures at, then make them at 1024x1024, since they can be scaled down easily if they need to be scaled down and it's more difficult to scale up something.
well thats the problem with devs holding back the information <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Viper two nine A+Apr 22 2005, 06:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Viper two nine A @ Apr 22 2005, 06:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well thats the problem with devs holding back the information <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> something i kno all too much about <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The Infestation texture should be shiny, or some kind of glossy feeling should be on it to make it more alien like <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Viper two nine A+Apr 22 2005, 06:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Viper two nine A @ Apr 22 2005, 06:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well thats the problem with devs holding back the information <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> There is no problem. You're getting a game for free in the end so there shouldn't be anything for you to worry about. Patience is a virtue.
Yes they make the game for free, but we also download their game, give feedback and suggestions, make maps and make the experience that they get from this project much more in-depth.
Devs should never forget that without people to play their game it would never have got past the first release. I think of downloading a Mod as paying a compliment to the Developer Team, not a privilege. Buying a game is a privilege.
Besides which, 'worrying' over the future of NS shows that we give a ----.
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Apr 29 2005, 07:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Apr 29 2005, 07:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There is no problem. You're getting a game for free in the end so there shouldn't be anything for you to worry about. Patience is a virtue. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well ... just have a look at your sig ... youre a pt ... youre getting a lot more infos on that game than the average nsplayer <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Well in this case there really is no problem yet. It has been already stated that currently there is no active code or content development taking place for NS:S, and thier most likely will not be until 3.1 is out.
You could also kind of deduce the development status from the fact that there is currently only one active 2D artist on the NS team (gazz0z) and it has been publicly stated that currently he is not slated to to any mapping texture work.
<!--QuoteBegin-Reebdoog+Apr 22 2005, 06:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reebdoog @ Apr 22 2005, 06:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I would, but where is the NS team on this issue? They might have made some, or the new art guy might be doing it all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 6john...
My post was in response to this quote... It isn't relevent to this discussion weather or not gazz is doing ANY work besides map texturing work for HL2.
CourtJesterGUSA, New YorkJoin Date: 2004-06-30Member: 29647Members
try this link makes it easier <a href='http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12' target='_blank'>http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12</a>
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Easier perhaps, but why use low res hl textures in hl2. If ns is going to run on source it would make sense to remake the textures in stead of converting ye olde textures
one guys said this: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92686' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=92686</a> quote of what he said. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I foun dthis nice forums when searching for a way to make mutiply images seamlessly tileable. It describes if you don't already know "well i didn't" how to convert your old hl1 wads to the new format what is it vmt?
Anyway here is the link: <a href='http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12' target='_blank'>http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12</a>
Did i put this int he right forums?hmmmmmmmmmm <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-jasonmog+May 2 2005, 05:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (jasonmog @ May 2 2005, 05:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i say release source with 0 textures, just gray walls for everything, port the maps and lets start playing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Sounds great. Do it.
You make it sound so easy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-carioca+May 1 2005, 04:31 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (carioca @ May 1 2005, 04:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> one guys said this: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92686' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=92686</a> quote of what he said. <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I foun dthis nice forums when searching for a way to make mutiply images seamlessly tileable. It describes if you don't already know "well i didn't" how to convert your old hl1 wads to the new format what is it vmt?
Anyway here is the link: <a href='http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12' target='_blank'>http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12</a>
Did i put this int he right forums?hmmmmmmmmmm <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Congratulations on totally missing the point of the thread.
I'm waiting on the word from the Dev's. I'm not wasting time making some if their new 2d artist is remaking them, or they don't want us to remake the textures. I tried emailing Flay, but got the generic response about source and i gather he is rather busy atm anyways with the business plan.
<!--QuoteBegin-Reebdoog+May 2 2005, 07:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Reebdoog @ May 2 2005, 07:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm waiting on the word from the Dev's. I'm not wasting time making some if their new 2d artist is remaking them, or they don't want us to remake the textures. I tried emailing Flay, but got the generic response about source and i gather he is rather busy atm anyways with the business plan. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> They don't have 2D artists making them. Gaz is the only 2D artist on thier team, and it has been publicly stated that he isn't doing any map texture work for them whatsoever at the moment. There have been public statements, many many of them, just because they aren't harrassing us here doesn't mean they don't know/care about this project.
Any decent texture done here is most likely one they don't have to worry about later.
Exactly, If the devs see some people from the community are willing to remake the originals for use in source, then they wont have to worry about those textures. And just concentrate on creating NEW textures <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> _
In another thread that I cannot find, I had given Supernorn (think it was him) a link to download my textures That was for an NS:Source retexturing project.
These wre textures I had worked on for the Pre/Selection movie. I had resized them, twicked them a bit and added other textures to them (glossy, bumpmaps and illuminated).
There were a few of them. That was about 3 months ago and I haven't heard anything new since.
Comments
In HL, it was detrimental to scale down textures because of the poly splits based on texture UV coords, so the 256x256 textures (which probably should have been scaled to .5, technically, and built in with extra pieces from there) were generally left at default scale.
From a resources standpoint, 512s make sense, but so much use has come out of the existing NS set at mostly 256 rather than 128 that for familiarity's sake you should really probably keep everything proportional to the original - if you just go with 512s and want to, say, match some of the work in the original maps, you're going to have to start scaling up textures and lose that resolution jump that Source should be giving. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
True. I'm not sure if Source has texture limits like HL1 has, but if it has, then using several 1024 textures would probably use alot of memory (especially on maps with different themes throughout the map). Then again, if it doesn't have a texture limit (or it's large enough), then I suppose 1024 walls could be ok. Thing is though, that I always found myself having to scale down the NS textures when mapping, since they were usually too large for the wall, or I only wanted to use a portion of it or whatever. Since 512x512 seems to work pretty well in Source (them being 128 units tall with default scale), I'm not sure if 1024x1024 would be useful, as I think a lot of that detail will be lost anyway because you need to downscale. I suppose it's really up to the texturer or mapper.
Source can get away with higher-res textures than, say, D3 since not every single one has 3-4+ passes on it (a single 512x512 D3 texture can equal a 1024 image in total file size and memory usage, not counting the rendering passes, which is where things start getting pretty expensive). Especially with smart and conservative texture usage, I doubt you'd run into any problems - though that's something to consider when thinking about normal mapping every texture.
It's not like every original NS texture is 256x256, either, and especially on some of the floor panels and such you can probably get away with a smaller texture to balance out the ridiculous scale some of those textures were at with 1:1 in HL <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, as I said, I guess it's up to the texturer. I think it'd be enough to simply double the scale, but if you really feel like adding that extra bit of detail to your texture, go ahead. Now we just need someone to actually make some textures, heh.
Anyway, as I said, I guess it's up to the texturer. I think it'd be enough to simply double the scale, but if you really feel like adding that extra bit of detail to your texture, go ahead. Now we just need someone to actually make some textures, heh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have become a 2D artist over the weekend, I figured I was going to do all my textures at 10x10 anyways since the worst that could come of it would be that someone would want it scaled for the final version. I know we all weren't thrilled that the original NS textures were drawn at final res when we wanted to build that detailed texture pack...
something i kno all too much about <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
There is no problem. You're getting a game for free in the end so there shouldn't be anything for you to worry about. Patience is a virtue.
Yes they make the game for free, but we also download their game, give feedback and suggestions, make maps and make the experience that they get from this project much more in-depth.
Devs should never forget that without people to play their game it would never have got past the first release. I think of downloading a Mod as paying a compliment to the Developer Team, not a privilege. Buying a game is a privilege.
Besides which, 'worrying' over the future of NS shows that we give a ----.
well ... just have a look at your sig ... youre a pt ... youre getting a lot more infos on that game than the average nsplayer <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You could also kind of deduce the development status from the fact that there is currently only one active 2D artist on the NS team (gazz0z) and it has been publicly stated that currently he is not slated to to any mapping texture work.
6john...
My post was in response to this quote... It isn't relevent to this discussion weather or not gazz is doing ANY work besides map texturing work for HL2.
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92686' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=92686</a>
quote of what he said.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I foun dthis nice forums when searching for a way to make mutiply images seamlessly tileable. It describes if you don't already know "well i didn't" how to convert your old hl1 wads to the new format what is it vmt?
Anyway here is the link: <a href='http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12' target='_blank'>http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12</a>
Did i put this int he right forums?hmmmmmmmmmm
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds great. Do it.
You make it sound so easy <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92686' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=92686</a>
quote of what he said.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I foun dthis nice forums when searching for a way to make mutiply images seamlessly tileable. It describes if you don't already know "well i didn't" how to convert your old hl1 wads to the new format what is it vmt?
Anyway here is the link: <a href='http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12' target='_blank'>http://sourcedc.com/view_tut.php?cat=1&tut=12</a>
Did i put this int he right forums?hmmmmmmmmmm
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations on totally missing the point of the thread.
I tried emailing Flay, but got the generic response about source and i gather he is rather busy atm anyways with the business plan.
I tried emailing Flay, but got the generic response about source and i gather he is rather busy atm anyways with the business plan. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They don't have 2D artists making them. Gaz is the only 2D artist on thier team, and it has been publicly stated that he isn't doing any map texture work for them whatsoever at the moment. There have been public statements, many many of them, just because they aren't harrassing us here doesn't mean they don't know/care about this project.
Any decent texture done here is most likely one they don't have to worry about later.
These wre textures I had worked on for the Pre/Selection movie. I had resized them, twicked them a bit and added other textures to them (glossy, bumpmaps and illuminated).
There were a few of them. That was about 3 months ago and I haven't heard anything new since.