Focus
ReD1
Join Date: 2004-03-18 Member: 27406Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2004-03-18 Member: 27406Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">Is focus REALLY the same as Shotgun?</div> Focus, in my opinion, is far too easy to gain kills with, especially with fade or lerk. However, many people say that Shotgun is the same Focus.
Without welding, 2 focus hits will kill a marine, and 2 hits can be quite succesive, especially with an experienced "Blink in, blink out, blink in" fade. So a shotgun has no chance against a focus fade. And in the case of skulks, if a a good ambush is put into action by a skulk, the chances are he'll bite the Shotgunner twice before the shotgun can get a direct hit, and this is made even easier with Leap.
I just wanted to know why people think shotguns and focus are the same.
And BTW, I don't want any flaming wars about focus users please <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Without welding, 2 focus hits will kill a marine, and 2 hits can be quite succesive, especially with an experienced "Blink in, blink out, blink in" fade. So a shotgun has no chance against a focus fade. And in the case of skulks, if a a good ambush is put into action by a skulk, the chances are he'll bite the Shotgunner twice before the shotgun can get a direct hit, and this is made even easier with Leap.
I just wanted to know why people think shotguns and focus are the same.
And BTW, I don't want any flaming wars about focus users please <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
shotguns still require a lot more skill to be mr frag happy that a focus skulk :/
imo i agree totally
/thread
Just get armor and welders for god's sake.
Why do you think skulking is easier than shotgunning? It takes way more skill to be a succeful skulk than a shotgunner IMO. Look at the top scorers of most servers: a marine will usually have a 3:1 k:d ratio or better. The best of skulks rarely get beyond 2:1.
Good point.
IMO focus is something that people call "nub" because it can get "easy" kills. Which is true early on, esp if the marines don't get armor 1 quickly. It does take considerable skill to be a GOOD focus skulk, and break past the 2:1 ratio. I think some of the best games I've seen are when one person will go uber-skulk, and actually do better than the rest of the team.
Focus = good upgrade
Shotgun = good upgrade
I like both :-p
The only reason focus seems easier is because biting is easier than shooting. JMO of course. 4+ : 1 on good days.
Often times I will buy a welder as my second or third upgrade in Co maps and do nothing except make sure everyone I see get hit recieves welding as fast as I can get to them.
Eventually, people will learn that Armor > HP. It's surprising how many people just don't understand the value of their armor.
Also if you really want to cheese off those focus skulks, get armor 3 or a heavy suit and learn to get out of the way of leapbites the moment you see a skulk turn the corner. Armor 3 lets you take three focus bites, I believe.
And of course, buy a welder and weld your teammates and never leave base alone.
Motion Tracking anyone?
Focus takes two upgrades, that's 1/5th your total upgrading potential.
Fades with focus are nasty but then again a fade with focus has already spend 1/2 his upgrades, and that's only speaking about the fade and focus. Getting the other upgrades that keep a fade from dying in two seconds of marine fire are going to be another 2/5ths of his upgrade potential or so.
A level 9 or level 10 ANYTHING is going to have the potential to really jack you up in combat no matter what team you're on. Combat is the game mode you play when you want to show off your leet DMing skills, really. Heavy DMers are going to be able to take a shotgun or focus or HA or JP or Fade or Onos and probably clean up with it, assuming the whole enemy team doesn't descend on them before they can retreat and regroup.
Xenocide is what needs to be removed imo. And there needs to be a limit on onos. Once the numbers begin totaling to +3, it gets ridiculous.
By the time you get +3 oni the match should already have been won by the aliens. Why? <i>Combat maps are only suppsed to be played for 10 minutes!</i> If server admins actually kept the limit at 10 minutes (or at leaset used that as a guideline), things would play a whole lot better in the long run. Anything over 15 minutes really ruins a good combat map.
Hmm..even for the bigger maps?
I've always wondered about the 10 minute limit..when you have a map such as daimos (size), kestrel (where you can get bogged down easily before reaching the hive room) etc, 10 minutes can strip the marines of a change of establising a foothold before moving on the hive..
but only my opinion of course ^^
Hmm..even for the bigger maps?
I've always wondered about the 10 minute limit..when you have a map such as daimos (size), kestrel (where you can get bogged down easily before reaching the hive room) etc, 10 minutes can strip the marines of a change of establising a foothold before moving on the hive..
but only my opinion of course ^^ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that case, the aliens should still win. They managed to succefully keep the marines out of the hive for 10 minutes.
Daimos has the emergency phase gate weldable - cutting the time required to get to the hive to a fifth of what is normally required. You can spawn in and be in the hive in 15 seconds.
Kesterel is one of the better maps IMO, but it still doesn't take long to get into the hive - and you have four ways get in and out of said hiveroom. Plus, the hive is jetpacker friendly with the space on top being large enough to land on, AND only having one side of that space being open. Also the hiveroom is very nadespam-friendly.
Just get armor and welders for god's sake.
Why do you think skulking is easier than shotgunning? It takes way more skill to be a succeful skulk than a shotgunner IMO. Look at the top scorers of most servers: a marine will usually have a 3:1 k:d ratio or better. The best of skulks rarely get beyond 2:1. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can prove you wrong.
Focus being the same as a shotgun is the dumbest argument ever, a shotgun is FAR weaker... the ONLY thing focus should be used to counter is HA and JP, 2/3 of marine lifeforms, whereas a shotgun counters 2/5 at best, gorges and skulks, and half of the time, if it's a really good skulk, don't plan on doing so great, especially if he only needs to land 2 focus bites on you to kill you, it isn't hard, and when do you get the chance to obliterate a gorge for kills in co?
Now do you want to mention focus fading? and LERKING? Christ, focus fading is RIDICULOUSLY easy, there is absolutely NO reason a pubber should be able to fade and go 30-5 by getting cara, cele, regen, and focus, and WALK. Fades are supposed to be guerilla warfare units, not tanks. As for lerks, you just divebomb someone 2 times, once if you're smart and gas. Lerks also DESTROY jps if they have good aim.
Focus > Shotgun in every way possible. No need to argue it. A good alien team vs a good marine team, the aliens should and usually do win every combat game, unless the marines get to spawncamping before leap/focus.
Hmm..even for the bigger maps?
I've always wondered about the 10 minute limit..when you have a map such as daimos (size), kestrel (where you can get bogged down easily before reaching the hive room) etc, 10 minutes can strip the marines of a change of establising a foothold before moving on the hive..
but only my opinion of course ^^ <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that case, the aliens should still win. They managed to succefully keep the marines out of the hive for 10 minutes.
Daimos has the emergency phase gate weldable - cutting the time required to get to the hive to a fifth of what is normally required. You can spawn in and be in the hive in 15 seconds.
Kesterel is one of the better maps IMO, but it still doesn't take long to get into the hive - and you have four ways get in and out of said hiveroom. Plus, the hive is jetpacker friendly with the space on top being large enough to land on, AND only having one side of that space being open. Also the hiveroom is very nadespam-friendly. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh..i knew I forgot about one or two things <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Reading that...fair enough, I can see why mp_combattime 10 = a good thing.
I guess I just enjoy long-distance matches rather than quickies <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Focus being the same as a shotgun is the dumbest argument ever, a shotgun is FAR weaker... the ONLY thing focus should be used to counter is HA and JP, 2/3 of marine lifeforms, whereas a shotgun counters 2/5 at best, gorges and skulks, and half of the time, if it's a really good skulk, don't plan on doing so great, especially if he only needs to land 2 focus bites on you to kill you, it isn't hard, and when do you get the chance to obliterate a gorge for kills in co?
Now do you want to mention focus fading? and LERKING? Christ, focus fading is RIDICULOUSLY easy, there is absolutely NO reason a pubber should be able to fade and go 30-5 by getting cara, cele, regen, and focus, and WALK. Fades are supposed to be guerilla warfare units, not tanks. As for lerks, you just divebomb someone 2 times, once if you're smart and gas. Lerks also DESTROY jps if they have good aim.
Focus > Shotgun in every way possible. No need to argue it. A good alien team vs a good marine team, the aliens should and usually do win every combat game, unless the marines get to spawncamping before leap/focus. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never seen a skulk - no matter how good - get above a 10:1 K:D ratio in a combat game.
I've seen a shotgunner go 40:1.
No hacking, no cheating, no "OMG T3H SKULKS SUCKED!!1!!." Just 40:1 through a little skill and luck.
Focus is not just effective against HA and JP - it works on all marines equally well. If anything, it's best suited for going through LAs and JPs, as they will die in one hit with a little bit of spores.
Whether or not you have focus doesn't make a difference in skill of an alien. A newbie fade will be a newbie, focus or not. Ditto for the lerk. Has it ever occured to you that not all pubbers suck horribly? There are good pubbers just as there are average and bad pubbers. A good pubber fade can make 30-5 seem like a really bad day.
Also consider that to use focus, you have to be in melee range. While the shotgun's max range is now limited it still can kill a focus skulk before the skulk can land a bite.
SG=Focus as long as the offending player is a skulk. How ever if the its a fade, you should have a2 by then and saving one point. by the time they get regen, or unlock next hive or what ever. You could be heavy by then, with welders. get another point for hmg. and your set.
The problem is. Aliens have Flexibiltiy while Marines Dont. If Marines go heavy, Aliens Can easly counter with onos and Marines can't do anything since thier stuck as one class.
2nd. Marine have less options with upgrades to get while aliens get way more options. Such as Triple Defence Upgrades.
Combat will be unbalanced as long as these remains
The only reason people get **** off about focus is because it's the only thing that effectively kills resupply-jpers (other than webs or xeno), and they don't like dying while shooting the hive <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have... you just aren't playing on the right servers (poor ones)
I have... you just aren't playing on the right servers (poor ones) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright - give me a 'good' server name & IP then.
[EDIT] OMG 5555 POST H4X! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I have... you just aren't playing on the right servers (poor ones) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If youve seen that then your playing on a lower skill level server and someone with top tier skills joins in. OR you regulars are highly skilled, and some random newbie pubbers come in.
Anyway i think that cloak in a early stade of the game is lamer then focus i still can't see a cloackt skulk however a fade or onos isn't that difficult:P if a cloaker w8 on the ceiling or somewhere else and attack you from behind you have less chance of winning it then afocus skulk that attacks you open. at least thats my opinion
i think sg is the best weapon becouse you havehighly powered shot and pretty accurate for in close combat and else use your pistol with a little practise it's a super weapon
GRZ Shadow Of Death
SG=Focus as long as the offending player is a skulk. How ever if the its a fade, you should have a2 by then and saving one point. by the time they get regen, or unlock next hive or what ever. You could be heavy by then, with welders. get another point for hmg. and your set.
The problem is. Aliens have Flexibiltiy while Marines Dont. If Marines go heavy, Aliens Can easly counter with onos and Marines can't do anything since thier stuck as one class.
2nd. Marine have less options with upgrades to get while aliens get way more options. Such as Triple Defence Upgrades.
Combat will be unbalanced as long as these remains <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
so you want to INCREASE the focus of teamplay in combat, its hard enough to get a team to stop humping the armoury let alone know what a welder is.
Then buy one yourself and show them.
Most people start playing combat with the 'commando theory' in mind: load up with the biggest most powerful guns and go out to kill anything that moves. If they never see an example of what works <i>better</i> they will never learn.
Focus is overrated. Pure and simple. Complaining about focus is pointless. It takes 2 levels for it and still leaves a skulk slow and without carapace against the shotgunner which means that the skulk is having to rely more upon ambushes at that point. Which means that the shotgunner needs to rely upon tactics, common sense and CHECKING THE ROOM! The only time I really tend to get frustrated is with cloaked focus users. And even that can be surmounted.
As for focus on fades and lerks, that's more a mid game issue where one's choice of upgrades and the tactics you use are a problem.
Honestly though, I prefer celerity over focus. Focus does jack if you have trouble closing distance and the ability to maneuver faster helps throw aim off and get into better positions.
id say in 1/3 of every ns game i play now, the rines win because of JUST ONE player. it is so easy for a single "good" rine to camp in a hall near the alien spawn... and the aliens cant even tuch him. recently i have seen rines getting scores of like 20:0 within just a few minutes because of this, and rines have pretty much won the game at this point because the rines have capd so many rts.
and dont say this only happens when the aliens have a bad team. i have seen so many good players get owned buy these guys, and they normaly end up just getting **** off and leaving the game because of it.
something is really wrong here, a single rine shouldnt be able to own up like this at the start... hopfully b6 will amend this.