Ati Radeon 9800 Pro 256mb Ddr

twoflowtwoflow Singing Drunk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1950Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">2nd hand for £135?</div> Hello.

I'm thinking of buying this from someone second hand for £135 ($247.735). Is that a reasonable price? Is it a good card (I want to play games for the next one or two years, but don't need stupidly OTT graphics)? Do graphics cards get more fragile and slower with age, or will this one be as good as one bought new?

Thanks!

Comments

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    IMHO, I'd wait until the price of an x800 goes down. The xX00's are so far above the last generation (9800s etc) that it would be worth it to buy one of those once you can afford it. Then you'd be set for like, forever.
  • Marik_SteeleMarik_Steele To rule in hell... Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Members
    Just to give you an idea, I bought the 128MB version of this card brand-new from Best Buy for $200 approx. 6 months ago.
  • BigMadSteveBigMadSteve Join Date: 2003-02-12 Member: 13472Members
    To buy a new one off <a href='http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000BEO77/qid=1099666329/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl/202-6289726-8556602' target='_blank'>Amazon</a> costs £200. This seems like an alright offer. The prices on <a href='http://www.aria.co.uk/productsList.asp?Category=15&Submit=submit' target='_blank'>Aria UK</a> seem pretty good for graphics cards. If I were you I would wait for the X800 to drop price though. I got my 9600 Pro 256Mb (new) for £60.
  • twoflowtwoflow Singing Drunk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1950Members, Constellation
    When do we expect the X800 price to drop? And would this second hand card be any worse performance-wise than a new card?

    Would this card run Half Life 2 (just guess!) and the Doom at a reasonable speed at 1024x768 high setting?
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    edited November 2004
    Get either a 128MB 9800 if your budget is limited, or an X800 if it isn't; in other words, get an X800 if you want a 256MB ATI card. I would expect X800 prices to drop in a few month, or when ATI announces a new card.

    Which card, Flint? I have a 128 MB 9800 PRO in my old system, and while it ran Doom3 and CS:S, it wasn't stellar. However, that system had 512MB of PC133 RAM, so I doubt it was the card's fault. The 9800 ought to run both games very well, although I'm unsure if you would get "perfect" performance on high settings in both games. In any case, the X800 Pro or above would, no questions asked.
  • twoflowtwoflow Singing Drunk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1950Members, Constellation
    But this card is cheaper than a new 128RAM 9800 from Ebuyer. Might as well get one with more memory if it won't be slower due to age, right?

    I'm not forking out £300 for a sodding graphics card.
  • TyrainTyrain Join Date: 2003-01-03 Member: 11746Members
    250$ for a 2nd hand card isn't that good at all. Sure it's not like buying a used car but you should get the prize down a bit at least.
  • twoflowtwoflow Singing Drunk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1950Members, Constellation
    edited November 2004
    It's probably not fair to compare $ prices with £. Do we pay through the nose here?

    Just tell me if its age will affect its performance, please.

    Edit - and I am saving money, that card is £200 on websites, and the 128Meg version is about £140.
  • RellixRellix Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13572Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 01:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 01:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hello.

    I'm thinking of buying this from someone second hand for £135 ($247.735). Is that a reasonable price? Is it a good card (I want to play games for the next one or two years, but don't need stupidly OTT graphics)? Do graphics cards get more fragile and slower with age, or will this one be as good as one bought new?

    Thanks! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Im pretty sure I saw this <a href='http://www.creativecomputing.co.uk' target='_blank'>here</a> for £129 brand new, I shop there all the time and they give you 1 year warenty + manufactes stuff for free on everything.
  • twoflowtwoflow Singing Drunk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1950Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Rellix+Nov 5 2004, 03:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rellix @ Nov 5 2004, 03:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 01:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 01:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hello.

    I'm thinking of buying this from someone second hand for £135 ($247.735).  Is that a reasonable price?  Is it a good card (I want to play games for the next one or two years, but don't need stupidly OTT graphics)?  Do graphics cards get more fragile and slower with age, or will this one be as good as one bought new?

    Thanks! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Im pretty sure I saw this <a href='http://www.creativecomputing.co.uk' target='_blank'>here</a> for £129 brand new, I shop there all the time and they give you 1 year warenty + manufactes stuff for free on everything. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The page doesn't even load, so that's out. I'll have a gander at ebay.
  • TequilaTequila Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19660Members
    As long as it's in good condition, £135 is great. And yes, it will play HL2 and Doom 3 at 1024x768 High Detail comfortably.
  • twoflowtwoflow Singing Drunk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1950Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As long as it's in good condition, £135 is great. And yes, it will play HL2 and Doom 3 at 1024x768 High Detail comfortably. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks, love. And (again) the performance of a graphics card doesn't worsen over time?
  • TequilaTequila Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19660Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As long as it's in good condition, £135 is great. And yes, it will play HL2 and Doom 3 at 1024x768 High Detail comfortably. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks, love. And (again) the performance of a graphics card doesn't worsen over time? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not unless you live in bloody stupid conditions, such as a desert. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • twoflowtwoflow Singing Drunk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1950Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 06:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As long as it's in good condition, £135 is great. And yes, it will play HL2 and Doom 3 at 1024x768 High Detail comfortably. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks, love. And (again) the performance of a graphics card doesn't worsen over time? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not unless you live in bloody stupid conditions, such as a desert. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Excellent!

    Want to play some of that stupid zombie game this evening?
  • esunaesuna Rock Bottom Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15175Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 06:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As long as it's in good condition, £135 is great. And yes, it will play HL2 and Doom 3 at 1024x768 High Detail comfortably. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks, love. And (again) the performance of a graphics card doesn't worsen over time? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not unless you live in bloody stupid conditions, such as a desert. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Or just poor case ventillation, or poor case layout (as one of my old cases was).

    Buying second hand it <i>should</i> be fine, but there's a chance that whoever you're buying it from could have damaged it by one of many ways. I'd never recommend buying second hand computer parts, the price might be good, but you could have a card that's already burnt out or is in the process of dying.
  • TequilaTequila Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19660Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 07:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 07:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 06:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As long as it's in good condition, £135 is great. And yes, it will play HL2 and Doom 3 at 1024x768 High Detail comfortably. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks, love. And (again) the performance of a graphics card doesn't worsen over time? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not unless you live in bloody stupid conditions, such as a desert. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Excellent!

    Want to play some of that stupid zombie game this evening? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sure. I'm essaying right now (yet on a forum... <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->) but I'll be on around 10pm.
  • twoflowtwoflow Singing Drunk Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 1950Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Nov 5 2004, 07:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Nov 5 2004, 07:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 06:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 07:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As long as it's in good condition, £135 is great. And yes, it will play HL2 and Doom 3 at 1024x768 High Detail comfortably. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks, love. And (again) the performance of a graphics card doesn't worsen over time? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Not unless you live in bloody stupid conditions, such as a desert. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Or just poor case ventillation, or poor case layout (as one of my old cases was).

    Buying second hand it <i>should</i> be fine, but there's a chance that whoever you're buying it from could have damaged it by one of many ways. I'd never recommend buying second hand computer parts, the price might be good, but you could have a card that's already burnt out or is in the process of dying. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Thanks. I'm buying it from a reliable community (not just ebay or whathaveyou), so I think I'll take the risk. If this one does conk out, hopefully it'll be at a time when the X800s are more reasonably priced.
  • Invader_ScootInvader_Scoot Join Date: 2003-10-13 Member: 21669Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 03:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 03:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thanks. I'm buying it from a reliable community (not just ebay or whathaveyou), so I think I'll take the risk. If this one does conk out, hopefully it'll be at a time when the X800s are more reasonably priced. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you're not gonna play HL2 anytime soon I'd suggest staying with older drivers, all the newer catalysts kill HL performance.
  • TequilaTequila Join Date: 2003-08-13 Member: 19660Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Nov 6 2004, 12:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Nov 6 2004, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 03:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 03:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thanks.  I'm buying it from a reliable community (not just ebay or whathaveyou), so I think I'll take the risk.  If this one does conk out, hopefully it'll be at a time when the X800s are more reasonably priced. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you're not gonna play HL2 anytime soon I'd suggest staying with older drivers, all the newer catalysts kill HL performance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The newest catalysts run HL fine for me. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • TheFrostmourneTheFrostmourne Join Date: 2004-09-14 Member: 31708Members
    Check out this guide:
    <a href='http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?location=3&var1=92&var2=0' target='_blank'>http://www.rojakpot.com/default.aspx?locat...&var1=92&var2=0</a>

    If you have the right core you can flash the Radeon 9800 Pro 256MB's BIOS to a Radeon 9800 XT.
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
    <!--QuoteBegin-Tequila+Nov 5 2004, 09:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tequila @ Nov 5 2004, 09:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Nov 6 2004, 12:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Nov 6 2004, 12:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 03:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 03:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thanks.  I'm buying it from a reliable community (not just ebay or whathaveyou), so I think I'll take the risk.  If this one does conk out, hopefully it'll be at a time when the X800s are more reasonably priced. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you're not gonna play HL2 anytime soon I'd suggest staying with older drivers, all the newer catalysts kill HL performance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The newest catalysts run HL fine for me. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Same. Silky smooth.
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin-Invader Scoot+Nov 5 2004, 05:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Invader Scoot @ Nov 5 2004, 05:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Flint Paper+Nov 5 2004, 03:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flint Paper @ Nov 5 2004, 03:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thanks.  I'm buying it from a reliable community (not just ebay or whathaveyou), so I think I'll take the risk.  If this one does conk out, hopefully it'll be at a time when the X800s are more reasonably priced. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If you're not gonna play HL2 anytime soon I'd suggest staying with older drivers, all the newer catalysts kill HL performance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Use Omega drivers if you love HL. Omega drivers have the option of installing an older OpenGL driver that runs HL better than the newest drivers. I'm not sure how well Doom3 would fare with this, though. Give the standard omega drivers a shot, then reinstall with the old OpenGL stuff if HL isn't giving you what you want.
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