Alien turets vs marines turets
nicosnow
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3540Members
Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 3540Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A huge difference or a bug ?</div>I dont want to discuss here the balance between aliens and marines, they are so many other good topics on the subject.
But, I watched a game as a spectator today in order to understand a few things.
I saw something strange : you put one alien turet in front of one marine turet, you put one or two Gorg next to the turet to "repare" . The two turets will fire on each other for a while (the marine turet is not repared). It seems that the alien fire has no effect. But if the Gorg stop to "repare" the alien turet, it takes 10 seconds before it is taken down.
I have seen a marine turet under alien turet fire for (at least) 5 minutes without effect.
Was it a bug or something like that or is it normal ?
But, I watched a game as a spectator today in order to understand a few things.
I saw something strange : you put one alien turet in front of one marine turet, you put one or two Gorg next to the turet to "repare" . The two turets will fire on each other for a while (the marine turet is not repared). It seems that the alien fire has no effect. But if the Gorg stop to "repare" the alien turet, it takes 10 seconds before it is taken down.
I have seen a marine turet under alien turet fire for (at least) 5 minutes without effect.
Was it a bug or something like that or is it normal ?
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Comments
I simplified the situation in order to be clear. There were plenty (like 6) of aliens turets versus 2 marines turrets.
2 Gorg were going from one turet to another to repair (or rebuilt). I have seen that for 10 minutes and gave up.
My question : one alien turet vs one marine turet (shooting somewhere else) = how long to destroy the marine turet ?
marine turet has 1000 armour
gorge spit does 22 dmg
it will take a VERY long time to take out a turret
And do you know about the damages made by the marines turets ? And the armour of an alien turet ?
But I couldnt find the armour of the aliens turets...
As said before, alien turrets are <i>supposed</i> to be mere speedbumps:
Marine turrets are stronger to compensate for their teams relative inability to form 'dynamic' defenses (read: They're too slow to reach an assaulted base in time, unless phasegates are researched, which however would require the marines to spread their resources and thus would mean a weaker turret defense.)
Alien turrets are designed to be obstacles that keep the enemy at bay until the cavalry - you - comes in and takes care of the threat.
the way it works in practice is the marines swarm through with grenade launchers and destroy the hive in a mere 10 seconds, the aliens on the other hand swarm in with an Onos and get massacred by the turrets
the marines get so many resources within a few minutes they can build phasegates everywhere, i have played as commander loads of times and i have never once run out of resources, i can drop millions of HMG and heavy armour for the men and i still have as much as 2000 resources still left, as an alien i need to wait 5 minutes before i can even build one offence chamber
if the NS team change one thing, it should be the resources, the aliens resources increase too slowly
They are balanced, but in a different way. Again, its a matter of adapting to the alien's very different play style. As an alien, NS is an ENTIRELY different game.
They are balanced, but in a different way. Again, its a matter of adapting to the alien's very different play style. As an alien, NS is an ENTIRELY different game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not only that but turrets combined with web makes all the difference. Aliens get a lot stronger as new hives become operational.
When we got our second hive up, I put an offensive chamber up right behind an elbow in a hallway and then I put webbing in the hallway and the elbow. Two heavy armored marines with heavy artillery rifles came in and one of them decided to walk through the webbing. His weapon wouldn't work but he wouldn't give up. I was able to take down a heavy armored troop as a gorge with just spit and a little assistance from my offensive tower!!! The second troop was smarter and just held back and tried to shoot my tower from long range, but he couldn't get enough off it and a couple healing sprays in between spitting on the stupid charging marine undid what several clips of ammo did from that heavy artillery gun.
When we got our third hive up another marine showed up at the same place and instead of spitting I sicked some babblers on him. It was the funniest thing seeing this defenseless marine caught in webbing with babblers jumping all over him. He died.
By that time the marines started getting smarter and tried to cut the webbing with their knives but I'd spit at them. By the time they could switch back to weapons I'd run away. And then an onos came to help me and we were a great team. He'd butt away all the marines and then come back to me for healing. As he pushed them back I built a trail of offensive towers and webbing until we were right at their front door. And lucky for us the rest of our team was doing the same thing from the other side with a bunch of fades and lerks. The marines lost that round haha!
n3g. Even with the current resource bug (which results in HUGE marine turret forests), two fades strafing back and forth with bile bomb will destroy any and all turrets rather quickly.
First I've heard...
But you could at least stick to one story the whole time, please <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
i don't think it is a "admin setting" kind of bug but more like a overall dedicated server bug, cos no matter where u play it seems marines get the best weapons so quickly u bearly have time to get a second hive up.
on 1 more topic about all this. i have noticed the marines seem to have <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> guns. may i ask what weapon a alien has to attack a gun like this? this gun placed smartly can wipe out a hive without knowing where it is. which really is ****ed up
they is no need for <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> guns in NS and i believe either a alien should have some sort of gun that does the same job or this should be removed from the game alltogether ( NS is a game not just any old mod!)
they has been many games trying to be the AVP of whatever this is trying to be AVP without the P where marines are overpowered.
it really need balancing PLZ i know u have done your best to make it balanced but really it a'nt the aliens are so underpowered untill lvl 3 hive and getting lvl 3hive with currant resource bug and not being able to build towers untill 5 mins into the game really just seem wrong
It also is a nice turret to use to prevent aliens from building mini bases to attack from right outside the marine base, and also is nice to prevent a hive from being built in a room.
to make them work theres what ye do to get better effect from them
keep a 3 offence chamber for 2 defence (3 offernce, 2 defence), pretty obius
now how to make the turrets hit stuff..
1 word: Webbing, web EVERYTHING around them, esp where the marines will fire at them... webbing will disable marines and snare them into almost immobility making them easy picking for turrets...
thats it, not wery hard =)
First I've heard...
But you could at least stick to one story the whole time, please <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want, I'll happily start using the term 'admins screwing the resource system up by toying with the skills.cfg plus some other problem Flayra is currently adressing' (or in short: ASTRSUBTWTS.cfgPSOPFICA) every time we refer to the problems.
In the interest of Flayras bandwith costs, I'd however like to go on using the term 'bug' as abbreviation <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I must say, at first, i had the same opinion. The aliens didn't seem to be able to get a victory, and
more than once; they were just blown away by the marines once they got heavy armor and
more powerfull guns.
However; the last three games i played, we (being the aliens) won every time; without too much difficulty.
I don't know if it was because the marine team had a bad commander or something; but i doubt that was the case.
I just think that the aliens need to work together more than the marines, and that victory depens on teamwork. The marine team on the other hand can fail or win just because of the commander.
I seem to notice that the last couple of days; there are more and more alien victories, just because a lot of people didn't really get how to play on the alien team.
Also, i feel that the discussion regarding the capabilities of the turrets of the two teams is irrelevant. As mentionned in earlier posts, they both serve a different purpose, and there is no use in comparing them because of that reason.
It also is a nice turret to use to prevent aliens from building mini bases to attack from right outside the marine base, and also is nice to prevent a hive from being built in a room.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dunno about you but that spits Balance in the eye and shoves a red-hot poker up its arse. How the hell is that cricket?
Aliens have a limit on turrets AND webs. Except of possible lag problems my question is simple: why?
Someone mentioned that they took down a HVY marine with an offensive tower, well i can do 1 better:
I took down a hvy marine with a hvy machine gun as a gorge by myself.
After jumping him I webbed him and shot him twice with the spitty thing, then webbed him again. Twas funny to see the fat slow movin a-hole getting taken down by a gorge.
I LOVE NS, I only play as the marines if I get to be commander and fades are SOOOOO much better then onos'
In the new patch turrets are being taken down a little. (Who knew they did <b>TWENTY-SIX</b> damage points??!)
It also is a nice turret to use to prevent aliens from building mini bases to attack from right outside the marine base, and also is nice to prevent a hive from being built in a room.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it is supposedly to be used for taking down the Kharaan offensive chambers and resource places than it should at least have a radious around the hive where it can not shoot the hive or anything in the room of the hive. To be able to set up one structure that can take down a hive and all of its buildings is just rediculous.
I can understand having one IN YOUR BASE to protect from the aliens setting up defensive turrets right outside so they could rush in and rush out to heal real fast. Maybe they should not be allowed out of a marines base? or there needs to be at least some limit to what this cannon can do.
When I play as commander the first thing i do when i set up a offensive base near a hive i upgrade the turret factory and put one of these bad boys up, why worry about dropping ammo and hp packs when your marines wont be getting shot at by any pesky turrets in the hive, if the hive is even there after the turret is done.
Aliens can win, I have seen aliens win and i have been on and started on the team. You get the hives up fast, keep the marines from expanding by using gorilla tactics on any of their forces trying to take a resource node (hit and run). If you prevent them from expanding you win. I usually get the round finished off by making 2 offensive turrets near the marine base than putting 3-4 defensive turrets behind them. Tell all of your team to get their azz over to your minibase and get massive ono ownage going on. It works extremly well. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
Anyone?
It also is a nice turret to use to prevent aliens from building mini bases to attack from right outside the marine base, and also is nice to prevent a hive from being built in a room.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
um...
1) GL marines can wipe out 2400 hp (400 x 6) worth of structures in a wide radius in 4 seconds... no alien defense can stand upto 2 barrages of the GL... none... period...
2) you want to prevent aliens from building mini bases outside your main base but in the same breath like the fact you can build a mini base next to ours without taking a scratch.
Once resource issue is taken care of it will be harder for marines to build support cannons, but don;t use the whole I want the best for me but you can suck route. (for those on this thread that don;t know... there is a server setting and a BUG affecting the game)
There is nothing the aliens have that compares to the GL or support cannon right now. If you can;t see that then you must always play marines.
as for seige turrets <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> , the manual states that you can expect an extreme alien response when one of those things goes up. that's pretty much outlining alien strategy against turrets right there. bumrush it. no, it doesn't quite balance things out, and the aliens certainly could benefit from a more powerful counter, but if every available alien makes a play for taking out the turret and the forward base it was built at, it's entirely possible to stop it. it will still inflict some damage, but marines wouldn't use it if it didn't.
i think one of the main reasons a lot of people feel powerless against turrets and forward marine bases in general is they haven't fully figured out how to manipulate the different alien abilities and upgrades yet, and as always, teamwork makes it much easier.
A Fade with Scent of Fear to spot where the marines are situated and see any incomings, Carapace to live a hell of a lot longer, and Adrenaline to attack a lot more can take out a forward base singlehandedly. it is difficult, but doable, especially with a gorge backing up a forward alien base nearby.
They take longer to build(need turret factory first), and once the turret factory
is gone they don't work anymore. Example, if I was a soldier, would I rather fight
20 alien turrets or 20 soldier turrets? Answer: 20 soldier turrets-just take out turret factory
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